Golf course at Sand lake?

Snakebite · 12-08-2003, 05:58 PM

I've been aware of this for almost two years now. Did you see the article in the Oregonian this weekend? I grew up at our beach cabin in Tierra Del Mar. I rode my motocross bike on those dunes 25 years ago (probably illegal as heck now). A golf resort there would destroy the quiet rural atmosphere, and My concerns are also about land use and chemical runoff into one of the last undeveloped estuaries on the Oregon coast. Where are they going to get the water they need? How are they going to deal with those issues? They claim they will mitigate for any impacts...yeah right! Local land owners with development in mind like the idea and at least one is willing to offer water use options. This is going to ruin a beautiful quiet little beach cabin community in my opinion. The EIS process could stall this for years, but the thought that the dunes on the south side of Sand lake would end up in an exclusive resort sort of torque me! What do you folks think?

Snakebite · 12-08-2003, 07:14 PM

O.K. So y'all don't care about a golf course, so how many of you have fished in the Sand lake estuary? I caught a 25 pound Nookie at the bridge in '86, and I hear that there used to be a great starry flounder population in there once upon a time.

Mrdorkfish · 12-08-2003, 08:27 PM

Sankebite, I don't think nobody cares,

They were all at the Ifish Christmas party at the time you posted this. Was there public meetings about this??

MrDorkfish [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Louis

garyk · 12-08-2003, 08:35 PM

Hey Snakebite, you're not alone in your concern.

You're right about the starry flounder, mrs.garyk put in a lot of days fishing there as a kid, whose family also had a place in Tierra del Mar.

The bad news is there's no EIS process (that applies only to Federal land actions). This is strictly a landuse/zoning controversy. The additional bad news is that is in the jurisdiction of the Tillamook County Commissioners, two of which, in particular, haven't met a development they didn't like.

Yup, selling out ORegon by the acre.

It's bad news for salmon, Tierra del Mar and the overall community

Old Coot · 12-08-2003, 08:50 PM

Snakebite, my family was fortunate enough to have a place on the river in PC during the late 50's and early 60's. Lordy, don't I wish we still had it! But, they only paid 6 grand for it and some fool offered 14K for that two bedroom on the river, and POOF! Hurts to watch progress in those two towns, doesn't it? Nobody remembers how the "new" boat ramp destroyed that incredible Airport Hole salmon fishery. :depressed: Now everybody thinks that the zoo is the norm.

Anyway, having observed the changes in the last 40 years, my suggestion is that you better learn to play golf.

straightweave · 12-08-2003, 08:52 PM

Golf courses are merely manicured parks. Many golf courses around the country have been co-designed by different groups, such as the audobon society, sierra club, DU, etc, to minimize the impact on natural settings. If these groups are involved, or others like them, then the odds are good that the impact of this golf course on the natural settings will be minimal, if not even enhanced. Yes, enhanced. If the state is smart, they will throw enhancement requirements into the permits to make sure the natural surroundings are better when the course is completed than when it was sand dunes.

The days of draining swamps to build golf courses are coming to a close. People have wised up. Cattail marshes are planted to help w/ the filtering of fertilizers that make it into the watershed due to runoff. Extensive pump systems are installed to create flowing water thru out golf courses to help oxygenate the water. Things have gone high tech w/ regard to natural resources and golf courses.

As for the community, no homes are scheduled to be built around the golf course. No Palm Springs crap. The community, according to the article, is going to built south of town, w/ the golf course on the north end.

I am not in favor of this project. There are toooo many golf courses all ready and the industry is stagnant. If these people want a golf course, they should find a daily-use facility somewhere and take it private and redo the course. Irrigation is in place, clubhouse built, cart facilities, etc, and save the dunes for the birds and the bees.

However, if the course is built, it will not be a bad thing environmentally if done right. As for the community, it could very well cause an "Aspenization" of the that coastal area, and that is why I am agianst it. Those folks don't need no stinkin' golf snobs telling them how to live.

Uglygreen · 12-09-2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

If the state is smart, they will throw enhancement requirements into the permits to make sure the natural surroundings are better when the course is completed than when it was sand dunes.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I happen to like just sand dunes. Golf Courses are not "natural surroundings". Hope this doesn't happen.

UG

12-09-2003, 06:02 AM

There are already too many golf courses.

When they cut off the water for farmers in the Klamath Basin a few years ago the Feds were investigating any pasture or field that was green. The golf cources were still pumping water and they were ignored

Play is more imporntant than feeding people or a healthy enviroment? I sure hope not!

fish assassin · 12-09-2003, 07:00 AM

That golf course has been in the makings for almost as long as I have
been alive! I remember them talking about it when I was just a wee little
shaver of about 6 or 7 ...

My dad built his first house at Terra-Del-Mar (land-by-the-sea) while my mom
was pregnant with me. After a couple of more brothers were born dad bought
a double lot at the top of Pier Ave. and built a concrete block house with a
flat roof. The house is still there, just no longer in the family ...

Another developement that is happening in the area is that the folks that own the
Pelican Pub and the big hotel across from the beach boat ramp at the Cape are in the
process of developing the sand dunes on the North side of the parking lot for another BIG
hotel. Jeff and Mary are the folks names ... They own the Kiawanda Shores developement,
Big Rock Construction, et al ...

Are these the same folks that are developing the golf course North of Terra-Del-Mar?

I remember back when Terra-Del-Mar/Pacific City were just stinkey little fishing
villages. Sure miss those days. Turning the two small towns into "destination
resorts" is just wrong IMHO.

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

-assAssin-

reeldick · 12-09-2003, 08:45 AM

I really hate to disagree with all of you but I personally think a golf course on the dunes would be a great addition to that part of the coast. A dunes type course close to Portland would surely benefit the area financially.

If built properly, and I'm sure it would be, it would make a beautiful addition for that area, add needed jobs, and be good for wildlife. The courses being designed and built nowdays have to be safe for the environment. Many are receiving awards.

To keep it away from development all you have to do is buy it. The owners are making a good choice by selling to a golfcourse development company. They make a few bucks and the land stays out of the hands of those who would poulate it's acreage with more cabins.

Radke · 12-09-2003, 12:19 PM

I bought a vacation home in PC three years ago. I can't believe how much it has changed in just that time. Seeing that new development going up next to the Pelcan Brew Pub really sucks. Well it sucks for those of us who like the sleepy nature of this community. (But I do like the Pub)

straightweave · 12-09-2003, 01:39 PM

A resort destination WOULD add to the commerce of the north coast. However, the course that is being built, or wants to be built, would be members only, w/ limited access to the local community available in the winter. Yeh, sign me up for that 8:50 t-time in January.. Hello? What the heck kinda consilation is that for the local community? Property taxes, food costs, et al, go up, so 350 golf snobs in their urban assault vehicles can come in and tell them how to live?

There is no arguing, Bandon Dunes golf resort has done wonders for that town. This is not that. This is a private country club. Take it from someone who has worked, and resigned, from that industry, these people will spend very little and will constantly tell each local they meet how little they have and how much better their lives are now that the club has been built. These folks do not need that abuse. Nor does anybody else.

Doryfisher · 12-09-2003, 02:09 PM

As a long time Pacific City/Tierra Del Mar part- time resident, I am dismayed by all the development that has occured, especially over the past five years.

The new development next to the Pub is a joke. Won't be long until PC looks like Cannon Beach. I hear they used to have dories there too, which as a Doryman scares the hell out of me. The Dories put PC on the map, but it seems that Expensive Beer, Overpriced Hotels and now golf are slowly turning the old PC into a thing from the past.

Hopefully the land use folks in Tillamook county will maintain the integrity of the land (afterall isn't that their job?_. What is a guy to do..... You can't fight progress or city hall in seems.

reeldick · 12-09-2003, 04:30 PM

I believe I read that the course proposed would be semi-private which means members would have first shot at T-times and general public goes next. I don't think there would be too many of the 350-400 members there on any given day. That leaves a lot of time open for us hackers.
Taxes? They would pay like the rest but not use the most expensive facilities.(Schools) That should make everyone happy.
Think of a golf course as a managed park. Nice facility, no houses or run down cabins, and lots of space for wildlife.
Look on the upside for a change. Some things are good.

Jerry Dove · 12-09-2003, 05:53 PM

I am sorry, ,,,, well maybe I am not sorry. Why in the---- do folks that do not live on the coast always want to tell us that do, how to live. We have to pay our taxes and try to keep all of our services funded. we do all we can to make it a place where you can all come and vacation, and if you want to stay full time that is ok. But if you are only part time, or no time, DON'T TRY TO TELL US WHAT WE CAN AND CAN NOT DO WITH OUR PROPERTY. Thank you. That includes the Tillamook County State Forest.

Jerry Dove · 12-09-2003, 05:56 PM

One more thought.
What does this have to do with fishing?

rebell · 12-09-2003, 06:21 PM

Jerry [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I find it funny, the same people that want to turn the coast in to a park, also want to turn it in to there own personal playground. Why is it that Oregon can prosper, except for the coast?

There might be a chance at some jobs here, what the hell is wrong with some one trying to make a living on the coast outside of the fishing industry?

freespool · 12-09-2003, 09:50 PM

Jerry just for the record it's the Tillamook State Forest. And I'am urging all regestered voters to vote yes on the TSF 50/50 plan. Fish are just as important as logging.

free

freespool · 12-09-2003, 09:54 PM

Doryfisher, I would not hold my breath on the Tillamook County land use folks. Didn't they ok the building of the Capes condos?

free

fish assassin · 12-10-2003, 07:28 AM

Jerry, before you get your panties in tooo much of a bunch ...

Your comment about being there only part time: I am a part time resident of
Pacific City. I PAY TILLAMOOK COUNTY TAXES ... JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LAND OWNER
IN TILLAMOOK COUNTY. I think that gives me a bit of a right to complain if'n I
don't like the way things are developing in our little neighborhood of Pacific City.

I personally think the land development folks there at the County seat made
a HUGE mistake by approving the new hotel built by out-of-staters (Jeff and Mary)
on a piece of land that is not suitable for such a development. This is another
"Capes Condos" fiasco in the making (IMHO). The SAND DUNE that they are building
on is unstable. Last winter Big Rock Construction came in and added rock - "rip-rap" -
to the sand dune in front of that piece of property. They then moved sand from in
front of the Pelican Pub over to the North to cover up the rock so no one would
notice that they were putting in rip-rap. Makes one wonder about the legality of
such actions ... rip-rap under the cover of storms, moving sand from another fore-
dune to cover it up and extend their property ...

As to what all this has to do with fishing ... let me clue you in to what the folks
at Pacific City are thinking. When the Pelican Pub came to town the parking lot
at Cape Kiawanda (a County owned lot) was pretty much taken over by the
patrons of the Pub. During the summer months it has now become almost impossible
to get a Dory to the beach thru all the parked cars in the lot. Do you really
believe that Jeff and Mary will provide enough parking spaces up on thier building
site to accomodate all the hotel patrons? Will we be able to FISH out of Pacific
City any more?

Although I think you have done a lot of good for fishing and/or hunting causes
(among other things) in Tillamook County, I think you are way off base with your
comments about "part timers". Remember, YOUR schools and county government are
supported by a lot of us "Part Timers" that pay our taxes in Tillamook County ...

How about a "back atcha'" big guy ... Why in the ---- do folks that do not LIVE
in South County believe they have any right to tell us what we should or should NOT
think about developements happening in OUR nieghborhoods?? See what I mean?
*THAT* knife cuts two ways ...

Thanks for reading, dude!

-assAssin- (vent mode OFF )

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry dove:
I am sorry, ,,,, well maybe I am not sorry. Why in the---- do folks that do not live on the coast always want to tell us that do, how to live. We have to pay our taxes and try to keep all of our services funded. we do all we can to make it a place where you can all come and vacation, and if you want to stay full time that is ok. But if you are only part time, or no time, DON'T TRY TO TELL US WHAT WE CAN AND CAN NOT DO WITH OUR PROPERTY. Thank you. That includes the Tillamook County State Forest.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">

[ 12-10-2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: fish assassin ]

lost_sailor · 12-10-2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snakebite:
I've been aware of this for almost two years now.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">And what action have you taken to try to stop it?

I've been fighting development in my area for years, and it's frustrating ... a golf course seems better than a factory or a sprawling condo, I dunno, they've cut down the trees and hammered the fish, consensus is it's tourism or poverty for that area.

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry dove:
One more thought.
What does this have to do with fishing?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Seems like it has everything to do with Life in General. And as Snakebite is concerned about, where do you suppose most of the chemical fertilizer poured on a golf course ends up?

[ 12-10-2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: lost_sailor ]

BrokeItOff · 12-10-2003, 07:52 AM

lost_sailor

This is simplistic but indeed

Tourism=Poverty

I believe this. Service jobs at minimum wage. It is interesting to me what has happened in the rural areas of Oregon. With traditional economies(Fishing,Logging,Farming) going away and a drive towards tourism, what happens is not good. Tourism drives up property values and taxes, reduces local control due to absentee land owners exerting an influence over tax issues etc.

Local politicians have been sold a bill of goods about jobs that service industry offers. Really we are turning rural Oregon into a playground for well healed urbanites at the expense of the local populations.

Sad thing is there is not a lot to do about it.

Shane

lost_sailor · 12-10-2003, 08:51 AM

excellent point, & I'm afraid you're right.

The rich get richer. Lucky them. :depressed: