President Bush Tax Cuts Working

El Shaddai · 11-26-2003, 11:36 PM

Very consistent recovery trends over the past several quarters...GDP is on fire, personal income is up, durable goods orders are strong, productivity is at record levels and unemployment is finally creeping down...back out productivity gains and it is dropping like a rock......consumer confidence topped 91.7 going into Christmas....projections look good moving forward...oh ya, earnings aren't too shabby either....

I own a small business with approximately 85 workers...due in part (primary credit to God's blessing and provision) to more favorable economic conditions we are buying more equipment, expanding operations (outside of Oregon due to the unfavorable climate in our fair state; sorry Ted, I am taking money and jobs elsewhere) and surprise bonuses are slated for each employee on their next check...tax cuts work my friends...

All you lemon sucking Bush opponents, will you please pass the lemonade?

Disclaimer: I am still highly disgusted by record spending, particularly the Farm Bill, No Child Left Behind (education) and our latest travesty Medicare reform....I never thought I would see the day when I was rooting for Kennedy to fillibuster and the Energy Bill is full of pork...Go Kennedy...(man that hurts!)

Thumper · 11-27-2003, 04:22 AM

If we can only find Bin Laden or Hussein, Bush will win in a landslide.

lost_sailor · 11-27-2003, 07:21 AM

I'm fairly sure they have a line on both the bad guys, and will just wait to set the hook at the most advantageous hour. Don't want to peak too soon!

The country's still a bazillion dollars in the hole, bogged down in hopeless war, millions out of work, millions addicted to drugs, the medicare bill is great for drug and insurance industry, life is grand.

hey hey ho ho George Bush has got to go. There's your lemonade.

Straydog · 11-27-2003, 07:48 AM

I agreee Sailor...

A well orchestrated "find" of the two bad guys will fill the news at the most opportune time. Meanwhile, while the stage is being set, hundreds will continue to die and our children's debt will continue to grow in leaps and bounds.

At the same time, our problems at home only continue to grow.

[ 11-27-2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

lingslayer · 11-27-2003, 07:59 AM

Hey, the guy's got a lot on his plate! He is fixing the economic hole left by you know who,...
Nailing Saddam and Bin Laden will help to stabilize things overseas.

We'll work on the domestic/social issues in the 2nd term. Rebuilding Iraq will take time but it can be done, hopefully during his second 4 years.

Then we'll see if his successor is as good.

Jamie

2LEYS · 11-27-2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

millions addicted to drugs

Funny how one of the big drug legalization guys is now calling bush out for this.

Happy thanksgiving

[ 11-27-2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: 2LEYS ]

El Shaddai · 11-28-2003, 02:19 PM

Not one dissenting view on enormous "tax cuts for the rich?" Only "big compamnies" and the "rich" will gain. It's "bad for the average American." C'mon, where did you all go?

At least have the intellectual honesty to say you were wrong...oh wait, first you would have to admit Bush was right.....

Bottom line....absent spending, he has done a great job...I shudder to specualate where we would be with Gore.....Jeb Bush and Condoleeza Rice would make a nice ticket in 2008....

kayakfisher · 11-28-2003, 02:44 PM

Intellectual honesty!?

So the politician(s) want to take credit for what may be the beginning of a good economy coming back...ok, I may be able to accept that if any of the politicians are willing to also take the blame for a bad economy. Can anyone out there remember any politician ever agreeing that they or their policies ever caused a bad economy?

And by the way, when was the last time a republican president ever balanced the budget? There is no respected economist who believes that trickle down economics is a real or useful phenomenon. It is all smoke and mirrors boys, as to how much the economy is affected by the president in office at the time...and intellectual honesty has nothing to do with it...in fact, intellectual honesty is against the rules of politics and presidents. It is all smoke, mirrors, and slogans...like "trickle down economics". It did not work, does not work...but of course in time the president in power gets to take credit for the upswing. By the way, the increased military spending also might have something to do with an upswing, in the short term only, right? In the end, the tax cuts will need to be reversed.

My taxes have not been significantly reduced, and if any of you out there REALLLLY think your taxes have been greatly reduced, go ahead, tell us by how much. I think you be surprised how little if at all.

This "recovery" is not complete, and cannot be attributed to any tax cuts. The econoomy is cyclic, and although the feds can do things to moderate it, they cannot really control it.

Perhaps low interest rates are the most important thing the feds can do...but in the end that will eventually lead to inflation if the interest rates stay very low forever (disclaimer...I am not an economist.)

An economist is someone who will explain to you why the predictions he made last year did not work out.

A politician is someone who takes credit for a good economy and finds someone else to blame for a bad economy.

Don't be too quick to credit or discredit any politician for the (hopefully) good economic upswing, they are the ones who are the least intellectually honest...so don't buy into their slogans.

Thumper · 11-28-2003, 04:27 PM

Woo-Wooooo. The latest holiday spending is up about 65%! Thanks to Bush's consistent conservative management of the economy we are finally coming out of the Clinton recession. Finally ...

tommy2915 · 11-28-2003, 04:58 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] El & Thumper [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Finally Some people who gives credit where credit is due...It will be a landslide even if we dont find Sadam and Osama.Come on look whos running against him.

DanS · 11-28-2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Bottom line....absent spending, he has done a great job...

That's like saying........"other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?"

El Shaddai · 11-29-2003, 07:28 PM

DanS~ Riiiigghhttt...........that comparison holds no water...

Kayakfisher~ Nice rant....no substance. I gave you specific, factual examples of this President's policy and how 90 families in the Northwest are better off. No rant or speculation...just plain, simple truth.

DanS · 11-30-2003, 11:27 PM

Quote:

...........that comparison holds no water...

Maybe if you've never taken Econ. 102.........that's the one right after Econ. 101.

Tell us how deficit spending has no relevance. I can't wait.

TheRogue · 12-01-2003, 01:20 PM

Don't think anyone ever disputed tax cuts would make the economy better. Of course, less money to the government, more money in your pocket (Econ 101). However, if government keeps spending more than they're taking in, and you keep adding ADDITIONAL tax cuts (betcha we see another major round proposed around Jan 1st), the insane deficit we're seeing now is going to get even worse (Econ 102). Two simple solutions:

1. Cut spending. Let's see, billions on the Iraq and Afghanistan "rebuilding"...and no end in sight. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and an aging population. Hmmmm....ain't gonna happen in this adminstration.

2. Quit passing tax cuts, and get rid of a bunch of the tax shelters and write-offs. Hmmm...ain't gonna happen in this administration.

Cardinal difference between Democrat and Republican politicians at the federal level of government.

Democrats: Tax and Spend

Republicans: Just Spend

Wonder which is worse in the long run??

TR

[ 12-01-2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

DanS · 12-01-2003, 02:13 PM

Thank you, TR.

The relevance of deficit spending on the health of the economy is undeniable.

I don't care which party or President is in charge, when you accumulate debt like we are currently, it is being fiscally irresponsible. As John McCain put it, we're spending money like a drunken sailor...............

You'd think people would realize how a credit card works by now. Yes, you actually have to pay it off in the future.......with interest.

Hoosier Daddy · 12-01-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS:

You'd think people would realize how a credit card works by now. Yes, you actually have to pay it off in the future.......with interest.

Now, if the average American household with over $8,000 in credit card debt can't abide by this simple rule, how can we expect the government to.... :grin:
http://www.cardweb.com/cardtrak/news...march/13a.html

I don't disagree with you, but it sure seems the American way has changed from "work your ass off and get what you earn" to "borrow your ass off to buy things you think you 'deserve'".

[ 12-01-2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Hoosier Daddy ]

24 on/ 48 off · 12-01-2003, 03:18 PM

Lars calls our Governor "Tax and Gouge Me", yet he doesn't come up with a silly nickname for a president who wants to spend money he doesn't have.

--spud-- :smile:

HeavyMetal BankFisherman · 12-01-2003, 03:31 PM

I agree that the economy is really taking off. I have a small Computer Consulting business and it is not looking good as far as going fishing is concerned. No time. A few months ago I was struggling to maintain the amount of billable hours that I need to make a profit. Now I am getting booked up and fast. Answering calls by day and performing upgrades evenings and weekends. I may even need to hire additional help if things keep going the way they are.

Upgrades, upgrades, upgrades. It looks like capital spending is back. Now many companies are doing what they have been putting off. Buying new servers and upgrading thier software. Most importantly, they are paying me! I love a good recovery. Lets hope it stays this way.

One good sign is that the temporary employment agencies have seen a dramatic increase in thier business. That is a very good sign.

El Shaddai · 12-01-2003, 03:48 PM

The blame for deficit spending does not rest solely with Bush....remember, Congress sends the bills to him...he should be exercising his veto for sure.....I believe we will also see a dramatic increase in tax revenues in the coming years....just like with Reagan....tax cuts stimulate the economy which increases overall tax revenues.....

Sorry libs...Tax and Gouge, er Kulongowski is 500 fold worse than Bush....

Snapset · 12-01-2003, 04:07 PM

Kayakfisher, you are 100% correct.This economic recovery will have a lot more to do with the cost of energy than with anything President Bush did. The boom of the nineties was also driven to a much larger extent by the wonders of the N-P-N and P-N-P junction than anything Bill Clinton could take credit for. (Rumor has it Al Gore tried)

[ 12-01-2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Snapset ]

kayakfisher · 12-01-2003, 10:06 PM

El Shaddai...

Don't be so quick to credit Bush with your good business success...give yourself the credit you likely deserve. By the way, what does your business make or do?

Tax cuts are not why the economy is turning around...even the politicians know that...which is why they reduced the cut from the original proposal. Not one real economist believes that trickle down economics has any basis for reality...it really was smoke and mirrors, and the Reagan years proved that. It was a total failure...except in the minds that still quote that philosophy. (No economists now look back and preach that it was successful do they?) Clinton won the election because the economy was bad at the time...it was that time of the cycle. He did cut spending in his second term...and did not raise taxes, but the economy still turned sour!! If a rebulican had done that it would have been called Reaganonics, and slogans of what a great success it was would be sung from afar! Reagan in fact did not lower my taxes...did he lower yours? Did Bush lower yours...not really. Nor did he make the economy change it happened on its own. Do you give Bush credit for the wind or gravity....or the last great fish you caught?

The economy is too big for him to take credit for it. Just because the man wore a helmet under his arm in a flight suit doesn't mean he can fly the plane you know, and if it had crashed he would have made it real clear that the crash was because he was not at the controls!

M.

kayakfisher · 12-01-2003, 10:14 PM

Jeb Bush can't win ... unless his brother is Governor of Florida i suppose...

What about Jeb's other brother...you know, the one with the Saving's and Loan scandal...who never served time, never got fined, but maybe that was due to his dad's influence?

m.

Thumper · 12-02-2003, 03:17 AM

You guys are getting desperate. :grin:

And the alternative is??????

DanS · 12-02-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

And the alternative is??????

Another Republican, maybe? You know, one with some fiscal responsibility.

Or, I guess we can just continue pretending that GW is doing great things for us.

Uglygreen · 12-02-2003, 07:03 AM

Every sucessful buisness person knows you have to spend money to make money. Get the economy going good and the tax revenues increase - much more than the cost of the tax cuts.

Every time a private business makes a large capital expendature it is "deficit spending", they are buying the tools or space or machinery or whatever it takes to make their product or sell their service.

They may "invest" (read deficit spending) $1,000 or $1,000,000 or more to startup or expand operations in the expactation that they will make back $2,000 or $2,000,000 or whatever. Bush is planning the same thing. The highest priority is to get the economy moving forward and expanding and the tax revenue will follow. People making a profit or a wage pay taxes, people losing money or sitting at home don't. Its that simple. There is nothing "trickle down" about it.

No risk = no reward. Real life 101.

UG

kamloops · 12-02-2003, 07:29 AM

UG

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] BINGO [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

DanS · 12-02-2003, 07:43 AM

Quote:

No risk = no reward. Real life 101.

And when the interest payments on your debt become one of your biggest expenditures, you have a BAD business plan.

Real Life 102.

Straydog · 12-02-2003, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS:
]And when the interest payments on your debt become one of your biggest expenditures, you have a BAD business plan.

Real Life 102.

Conservative's new mantra = "no problem, we will leave the debt to our kids."

Real Life Compassionate Conservatism 103.

Uglygreen · 12-02-2003, 08:21 AM

Did you guys even read what I wrote?

[img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

UG

El-Kabong · 12-02-2003, 08:29 AM

it looks to me as if they did read what your wrote. Also looks like they presented good replies as to why trickle down econ theory is non-sense in the long run.

Straydog · 12-02-2003, 08:31 AM

I did and I am not stupid. Why the name calling?

DanS · 12-02-2003, 08:41 AM

Yes, I read it. And I STILL know that business capital expenditures and government deficit spending are two entirely different things.

Was there something I missed?

Pete · 12-02-2003, 08:45 AM

Just a little reminder here. Please keep the focus on the issues and avoid the ad hominum arguments. Also, please recognize that everyone has an opinion. If it doesn't agree with your own, that does not make it wrong, foolish, uneducated or anything other than just different. Recognize that it is different and move on. The mods are not interested in officiating a bickering match.

Later ... I thought I was clear and reasonable in my request. My request went un headed, so the bickering was removed and this thread is done.

[ 12-02-2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Pete ]