Education Crisis In America

[El Shaddai]

Anybody catch it last night? Pretty broad....too much to cover in an hour....however, several things to think about....

Our graduating seniors as a whole are scoring much lower compared to many other industrialized nations.....mid teens....ouch!

Charter schools are beating the pants off public schools in identical demographics in the examples cited.....

President of the NEA did not directly anwer the questions....and they are under an IRS audit for tax fraud....stop playing politics and maybe get back to focusing on education....

Bill Bennett is a very bright guy.....pair with Condeleeza Rice and you have a great presidential ticket in 08.....

[pdxkevin]

[Straydog]

If we are to continually be judged in comparison to other industrialized nations, might it be time to rethink how we approach education in this country, in order to more closely mimic those we are being compared to?

Might it be time to say "no, not every child in the US will have an equal opportunity to education" as other industrialized nations do?

Might it be time to say "women should be educated to be good wives only", as some industrialized nations do?

Might it be time to determine that some will always be poor laborors and only educate them to that level as some industrialized nations do?

Might it be time to tell the handicapped and mentally disabled that they are of no value and must spend the rest of their lives isolated from society and unable to contribute, as some industrialized nations do?

Might it also be time to admit that, in an effort to save money, building and filling huge schools with the masses is not as effective as smaller schools and more personalized education, as charter schools do?

If we are to compare ourselves to others and give that credence, then we have to be willing to do what it takes to lesson the gap in the means to the end.

Are we ready to do that?

[Thumper]

No, but it might be time to go back to teaching facts, techniques, processes and skills that prepare our children to survive in the real, cold, competitive world, rather than trying to provide every single real or perceived need of every single child.

This all came home to me one day several years ago when I was talking with my son's history teacher. I asked him why there was never any homework assigned. He replied that he had no time to review homework because his time was so burdened by counseling kids whose families were failing them. And this was the history teacher. :shocked:

Our schools are so saturated with non-teaching missions and associated costs that it is a wonder that anything gets done.

Time to get back to basics.

[Straydog]

I agree Jack.

However, I think the problem lies in defining "basics" in todays world as compared to the past. Our base of knowledge is tremendously larger than it was even 50 years ago.

Also, we need then to determine how we are going to deal with the kids that need that counseling. As I have asked in the past, if not the schools, then who? And at what cost and are we willing to pay for it?

BTW, if I had a history teacher give me that excuse for not sending home homework, I would ask for a detailed accounting of his time spent counceling and I would then go to his Principal and ask if he or she believed that was the best use of a history teachers time. If I did not get a satisfactory answer there (ie. "No!") I would then ask for change directed from that Principal's office. If that did not bring about change, I would then take my concerns to the Superintendant.

I am curious, what was your response to this teacher?

[id. painter]

What you learn in school is not dependent upon how much homework you are assigned. id. painter

[Straydog]

Jack,

I share your concern.

While I am not sure I see our shortcomings in the same magnitude as some, I certainly agree too many people are ill equiped to function in the real world.

However, if you were to work around the public on a regular basis as I do, I think you too would realize this is not a new phenomenom. That does not make the problem better, but undereducated people are not unique to the current generation, by any means.

Further, if you were to hang out with me and observe fishing and hunting consumers as I do, you would not be suprised that Ifish might attract those less able to express themselves more so than say a tennis or even golf centered forum. That is all I will say about that.....

I also agree we need to be teaching English and open as many opportunities as possible for kids and their parents in that reguard.

BTW, good for you for taking the time to 1. question the teacher and 2. question the board.

[roadsend]

Straydog
"If we are to continually be judged in comparison to other industrialized nations, might it be time to rethink how we approach education in this country, in order to more closely mimic those we are being compared to?"

Good post. Some other things that might be added include whether these industrialized nations provide a free student transportation system, a comprehensive extra-curricular sports program, and free tutoring and instruction in a variety of languages for foreign born students.

[happybrew]

So how do we go about fixing the parents? That's what I'd like to know!

happybrew

[Digifish]

I think there are two issues here that muddy the public education waters.

We no longer have state mental hospitals (or the equivalent) in this country. Though they were places of concentrated grief and struggle they still were important institutions. Since we no longer have them, many of those children, at least the marginal ones have been placed into the public education system. (Who knows where the severe cases are...) There is a huge drain on the public education system dealing with these needy children. It dilutes the resources and everybody suffers. My opinion anyway.
The second is the belief by many parents, whether they know it or admit to it, is that once their children have gone off to school that all their needs are being met. This is an unrealistic expectation. Schools have neither the resources nor the structure to provide that kind of nurturing.

Happybrew, I think your question is so ironic because it is relevant to the issue but so indirect and separated from the debate. And too difficult to ask it in the context of the debate. "Why aren't you a better parent?" Not an easy one to ask.

[Thumper]

Good points, Digifish. I had forgotten about the state mental institutions.

[nitrobass]

I've grown up watching this problem grow each year. My dad was a high school principal for years, and the last few years has been a superintendant, both in small and large districts. Why anyone would want to enter into this realm anymore is beyond me - its depressing!

So many problems its unreal, the biggest being a continual lack of funding. How all the armchair scholars can debate on how the money is spent, and its necessity, while voting down bonds and tax increases while then cussing the system is comical. My dad's done great things where he's worked and its usually by sourcing money from the private sector...but lots of districts dont have that option.
You look at some other education systems around the world that score higher than American students and look at the funding behind it. Its there.

Then there's the teachers union....I wont get into that but I do think it does way more harm than good. In short I think that many bad teachers hide behind it and the good ones dont need it. Its archaic.
Lots of problems in public education thats for sure. Glad I made it through when I did

[Gun Rod Bow]

Then there's the teachers union....I wont get into that but I do think it does way more harm than good. In short I think that many bad teachers hide behind it and the good ones dont need it. Its archaic. [/QB]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Hard to argue that one. The problem with more and more funding has been the lack of corelation between more funding and better product. It has in fact worked in the reverse.

The charter schools mentioned in the lead post produce a better educated student with far less money.

Too much time is spent on non educational diversions. IMHO

[Digifish]

I think it is unfair to compare successes of the charter school vs. public education especially when its done by percentages...this group (you name it...math skills-6to8th grade, eye-hand gross motor skills-Kto2, etc.) scores better in charter schools than Pub.E.

Charter schools, by a far margin, have better teacher to student ratios as well as active and talented parents. The kind that take the initiative in their child. As a result, by percentages, they perform better because the model is different with different outputs. We all want the same output: well educated self-starting children.

Pub.E will always serve us because there is no other choice. In other words, if all schools were charter schools they would by definition be public schools.

[Straydog]

Very good points Digifish, concerning both mental hospitals and the comparison of public and charter schools.

I know we have a couple of the more seriously mentally and physicaly handicapped in our district. In fact, we are struggling with a very high workers comp. insurance premium due, in a large part, to the number of claims resulting from injuries to teachers from severly mentally disabled children.

Also, great question by Happybrew. I sure wish I had the answer to that one!

[Straydog]

id.painter,

I wholeheartedly agree.

I am much more concerned with the excuse given than the fact no homework was sent home.

While I am an avid defender of teachers, I am just as avid about them being held accountable.

If this was a legitimate excuse, one needs to determine if that is the role we are paying this teacher to take and if we are comfortable with that.

If that is just an easy excuse from a teacher that dosen't like to grade papers, we need to recognize that and deal with it, as well.

I am not making judgment, I am asking questions in order to determine a judgment.

[id. painter]

I dont give much homework. I teach art and If I send the stuff(student work) home I rarely get it back and when it does come back it will be done with out my insight or voice. The papers are folded , crumpled, dirty, or ruined .
I tell all my students to take thier work home (after it is done) to show the parents. I here things like "why, my mom will just throw it away anyway" "why, my mom says I cant draw very well "
" Why should I take this home, my parents dont know about art and really dont care" I believe it comes from the home.
I am given a set # of copies that I can have for a semester, 1200 total.This for everything, tests , handouts , study guide,, ect... I dont have a text book , not even a classroom set. I would have to have the students copy , from the chalk board , any homework assignments I give out. I cant have the student be expected to go to the public lib. Many of the students wont have a parent home to help them get there and back. And many(parents) dont have the knowledge to help the kid anyway. There sre sooo many wothless parents , you just cant imagine. O.K. Ill stop gritching now. id. p.

[Straydog]

id.painter,

So sad, yet sssssooooo true.

As I see it, the average person just has no idea how bad and widespread it is and I am much further removed from it than you are.

It has to be very, very disheartening to hear and see what you do from your students.

Hang in there, you and those in your profession are, for the most part, heros in my mind. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Thumper]

Originally posted by Straydog:
I am curious, what was your response to this teacher?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I did not respond. But I went to the next school board meeting and voiced my concerns very specifically. The teacher left before the next school year. I don't know whether my input was material to that.

I agree that we live in a complex society, far more complex than when I was young. But I am alarmed that our young people cannot read or write effectively. Even their teachers are often unable to communicate. All you have to do is peruse Ifish to confirm that. Communications skills are seemingly a thing of the distant past. When these young people go out to compete in the real world they get steamrollered by kids taught in the private schools, and they can't figure out why.

Schools cannot be all things to all people. My Susan teaches in a Portland primary school where over 50% of the kids do not speak English. :shocked: The response of the school, I would think, would be to teach English to these students and to their parents, perhaps during the evenings. But instead they hire language specialists to teach the kids in their native languages (mainly Spanish and Russian, but with a sprinkling of Tagalog and a few others), thereby perpetuating the problem.

'Tis a strange world.

[El Shaddai]

So why not offer a choice? Why not utilize vouchers or allow more charter schools....?

Please don't pass by the obvious problem with the NEA....it's not just deadbeat parents....