Government Spending, bonus for all

Gus Orviston · 11-13-2003, 02:56 PM

Ted gave all non union workers a bonus and increased their benefits today. Does anybody find it a bit offending, or do you think it wasn't big enough?

I must say it made me a bit excited. I work at a somewhat successful corporation, I haven't gotten a raise for 2 years, and don't expect one next year. Mmmmm.

Maybe our taxes should go up, so Ted can give more of it away to salary increases for the goverment needy

gus

CATCH AND EAT · 11-13-2003, 03:02 PM

Dennis can you say Oregon-ized crime?

And then he's touting that new motor home he's driving in around the state and says it will help him get "closer and better serve the people of Oregon". Who the heck is he kidding anyways?

We don't have money for schools, hiways, prisons but we sure as heck have money to pay the socialists in Salem. Absolutly no respect for the people of Oregon. Oregon-ized crime indeed. Here' to you Teddy. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

El Shaddai · 11-13-2003, 03:11 PM

Ohhh Brion.....please tell us why this is a good thing...........memo to all left leaning individuals....this is fiscally and socially irresponsible.....

lost_sailor · 11-13-2003, 03:42 PM

$14.59 a month. Big whoop

Thumper · 11-13-2003, 03:46 PM

I had heard that it was $350 per employee, totalling several millions of dollars. So where is the righteous indignation --- after all, that money could have gone for schools. Right?

CATCH AND EAT · 11-13-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lost_sailor:
$14.59 a month. Big whoop

This is the exact kind of thinking that brings about new taxes. They come in the form of its only just $14.59 a month. Sorry Lost Sailor, but not many of us can't afford giving just one more hours pay to support government.

[ 11-14-2003, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

STGRule · 11-13-2003, 04:13 PM

It was interesting that the paper called it a "bonus". It was explained to us as a one-time $350.00 in lieu of any raise or cost of living increase for the next two years. Since I haven't had a raise in over 5 years and have had only one cost of living increase in that time, $350.00 is a pathetic amount. I am now making less in real money than I was 7 years ago. And it will be even less in 2 more years. It's a darn good thing I love the work I do and the benefit it gives all the others that live in this state or I would begin to think I was pretty stupid to serve them for this amount of money.

CATCH AND EAT · 11-13-2003, 04:18 PM

Good thing Pers is out there aye Ruth? :depressed:

24 on/ 48 off · 11-13-2003, 04:24 PM

I thought the new motorhome was privately funded?

RV

How bad can that be? Help me out here.

--spud-- :smile:

Gus Orviston · 11-13-2003, 04:29 PM

I think the tally is about 20 Million.

Mmmmm, this is pretty much in your face spending of money we don't have. Think about it, do we have this money right now? NO. Flat out NO. We don't we are hoping for a tax increase to go through just to get close. I don't care if it 10 bucks, it is clearly not in our best interests.

Just reminds me to get my petition off so the tax increase can come to us for a Up/Down Vote.

Gosh, don't know how I am going to vote right now?

gus

[ 11-13-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Gus Orviston ]

lost_sailor · 11-13-2003, 04:48 PM

Dang government workers, they're the scum of the world. All they do is suck down donuts and figure out ways to rip us off. They're all driving Jaguars and Bentleys!

Gus Orviston · 11-13-2003, 04:56 PM

Interesting you shoud attack the workers and call them scum? They aren't the ones at fault. I think it is the leadership, so please don't hold a grudge against them.

gus

fortywinks · 11-13-2003, 05:56 PM

Gus - Me thinks lost_sailor had tongue in cheek there.

REEL HANDEL · 11-13-2003, 08:06 PM

Gus you must be talking about Gov. Tax&Gouge
Right?

lost_sailor · 11-13-2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gus Orviston:
... I think it is the leadership ...

Yeah! Stupid LEADERS, always trying to retain their stupid WORK FORCE! That's so stupid!

Hey let's shut down the stupid GOVERNMENT! We'll save BILLIONS - - who's with me?

1pump · 11-13-2003, 09:27 PM

I will probably never get a raise, and I don't care. The Feds, the state, the city, or an HMO will just take it anyway.
I get paid hourly, and I don't get paid overtime, despite the fact that I work 70+ hours a week in summer. A lot of people are incredulous when I tell them that, but it's not a big deal. With overtime comes higher taxes.
My boss may as well keep it and buy another $40,000 pickup next year. I'd rather see him have some fun than give it to a government that doesn't deserve it. Screw 'em. [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

STGRule · 11-13-2003, 10:09 PM

Quote:

I will probably never get a raise, and I don't care.

I probably won't either and I do care.

Quote:

The Feds, the state, the city, or an HMO will just take it anyway.

Every year it�s more and more.

Quote:

My boss may as well keep it and buy another $40,000 pickup next year.

I drive a 1985 vehicle. My husband drives a 1996 vehicle. I would like a $40,000 pickup. But that is more than I make in a year.

Quote:

Screw 'em.

Which basically means, "screw me". Too late, I already had that pleasure.

Fish_N_Russ · 11-13-2003, 10:51 PM

Really makes a person think twice about public employment......at least in oregon anyway. I too make less than I did just a few years ago since I have not had any raises to offset inflation, social security increases and increased health care costs

Chromaflage · 11-13-2003, 10:57 PM

I work in the private sector as a consultant and have not received as much as a cost of living adjustment in the last five years. My take - if I get tired of it, I'll go work somewhere else, start a new career or do something else. That's the great thing about this country! YOu don't have to be content and you can always pursue better opportunities.

As my grandfather told me when I was a kid:

As you travel the highway of life, if you don't like the scenery, perhaps you are looking out the wrong window.

ORS

El Shaddai · 11-13-2003, 11:18 PM

I have worked in both the private and public sector....suffice to say, the private sector is far more accountable, maintains higher standards and demonstrates far more fiscal responsibility. Simply put, if you don't, you won't be in business long.....

Look at the bottom line...Americans are paying more in tax revenues and fees than any other time in history. Government is larger than ever and Oregon in particular is a leader in wasteful government spending.

As for any "woe is me" employees in any sector, let me share a little something with you....this is an at-will employment state...if you feel you are getting the short end of the stick, then simply quit and take your skills elsewhere....

TheRogue · 11-14-2003, 05:53 AM

First of all...now seems like a poor time to have something like this go public, especially going around the backs of the legislature to do it. Should've been part of the budget negotiations.

And... I recruit new hires for a federal agency. I recently attended a career fair down at Oregon Tech in Klamath Falls. My booth was next to a firm from the Sacramento area. We got to talking about starting salaries, overtime, etc. We offer around $14.50 per hour to someone with a B.S. as a starting wage, good bennies (retirement, healthcare, etc.), and almost NO chance for overtime. This firm from Sacramento started their grads at $26.50 per hour, a better benefits package than ours, and all the overtime a person could stand, if they wanted it!! They can't begin to hire enough people...it's such a high-demand profession.

This is just one little example of public sector vs. private sector. Sacramento is a booming place, even in the Bush era, so this isn't a perfect model to show the differences. However, it does illustrate the biggest problem faced by public employers. Government agencies, county, state, and federal, are NOT allowed to respond to the radical upswings in the economy. Huge $$ bonuses and raises seen by much of the private sector during the boom years are NOT seen by public employees. The public sector must rely on drawing recruits with its "other" things...job stability, retirement plans, cost-of-living increases, etc., especially in the "down years". This was always my best recruiting tool, harping about job security during a recession.

We're doing our best to rein in PERS (whole nother story), force public employees to pay more of their health care costs, and freeze salaries at 1998 levels. Remember, those were the things that made public service attractive to a few good people. Why would a well-qualified individual out of college want to work for a government agency now? And isn't that a loss to the public overall, if it's becoming extremely difficult to recruit the best and brightest??

Just some food for thought.

TR

CATCH AND EAT · 11-14-2003, 07:20 AM

Kyle, good post and I agree. The timing is very poor judgement and makes Ted look pretty bad. To bad, I had better hopes for him as governor.

Lost Sailor, thanks for brightening my day. You actually made me laugh this morning. But I don't think government is stupid, just a bit challenged.

As for those that work for the state just be glad you are getting paid and have a job folks. Quit your whinning. Poor little o'l me went without pay for 6 months (no unemployment either since I am self employed)so I could save my business during the first of the year. Now business is doing very well and guess what? I still did'nt give myself a raise. Guess I need to look in the mirror and complain to myself with my lower lip sticking out. BTW, I have not had a raise in 5 years either. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Oh, and it's all Bush's fault.

tailchaser · 11-14-2003, 08:09 AM

I personally think Kulo.. will get flamed for this one and has lost a lot of support from the communities. His estimate of a few million dollars saying it wasn't much money is flawed. It might be in the whole scheme, but I know a lot of teachers and state cops that would like thier jobs back and this could've easily done that. I've worked for the state and national government during summer internships in college and I can say one thing about it. They get paid well for what they do. There are 10% that work hard, and 90% that don't do anything but sip coffee and bs all day. The ones that work hard usually don't move up in the world because they need to do the job others are responsible for. I'm in the private sector now and we turn around jobs in a month that would take a state official a year. Yes, we get bonuses and pay raises but we plain out get the job done quickly. It's well known in College if you don't want to work hard and have a stable job, you work for the state. It's decent pay but don't expect a lot more.

What were you at OIT for Rogue??? I'm a former grad there in Engineering. Anyhow, this is my .02 on the matter.

tc

TheRogue · 11-14-2003, 09:01 AM

TC....

Geomatics (land surveying)

TR

Gus Orviston · 11-14-2003, 09:27 AM

Retention of the public sector work force, you think they are going to leave a stable job to come out into the private sector when lay offs are still occurring :shocked: , or at my corporation redeployment (which equals layoffs). To get what; no pay increase, less bennies, and less job stability?! Does the 20 Million stop this great exodus? Assuming you are actually serious about your postulation that this increase retains a work force.

Is our government going to come to a halt without it. Hey, sometimes workforce turnover is good, but I don't think that presently and issue.

Or does the additional 20 million thrown in our face contribute to putting a halt to the upcoming tax increase. This as a result will cost many public employees their jobs. I propose it aids in doing just the opposite of what you mention.

Within my own work place, I am encouraged to see effort in staving off spending and reducing pay increases. I know in the end it means more money to work with to keep the business going. For the government it just appears they are continually spending beyond their means and that there is no end to the stream of money coming out of our paychecks. So not only does my salary not increase, the margin I get goes down because of ...more taxes so the public employees can have an increase.

gus

TheRogue · 11-14-2003, 09:36 AM

Gus....note that I said I didn't agree with the increase!!!

But, yes, retention is a very big issue right now. People are retiring in droves, before they can be screwed over on their PERS accounts. Like I said, when you get rid of all the things that make public employment so good (bennies, retirement, consistent cost-of-living increases), well that just leaves comparing hourly rates. There is NOT ONE profession at any level of government that pays equivalent to what the private sector does. Get rid of those extras, and why would anyone want to continue working for a government organization??

ESPECIALLY in this era of public-employee bashing, which has gotten worse since Bush came into office, at all levels of government.

TR

lost_sailor · 11-14-2003, 09:39 AM

OK, before this random "$20 million" figure gets out of hand - - read the news:

"$3 million in general fund money and $6 million in federal and other funds"

Seriously, it seems like time for a drastic change and a serious public discussion about what "government" services we ARE willing to pay for.

I'll start with one.

Law Enforcement. Is that unreasonable? Now how about education?

El Shaddai · 11-14-2003, 10:37 AM

lost~ The question is not what are we willing to pay for....."we" are paying more than ever...the question is what wasteful, unproductive services are we no longer willing to pay for....

To be clear.....this is not a revenue problem....this is a cost containment problem....

Funny you should mention law enforcement....being very familiar with that arena I can certainly share that wasteful spending and low productivity are commonplace in many departments....

tailchaser · 11-14-2003, 10:44 AM

LS- well said, coming from a true Democrat. My wife is one and we bicker about those two issues a lot. But tell me one thing, this state has been democratic for a long time and where have those two issues gone? We've cut state police forces almost in half compared to the 80's, and the school system is breaking apart at the seams with budget cuts and quality of our schools. So I miss the point where the Dems are all for these things and yet they seem to be hurting the worst? The 3 millions dollars would have gone a long way in hiring more police and giving towards schools. That's a lot of computers and books.

tc

lost_sailor · 11-14-2003, 10:53 AM

I am no longer a Democrat :tongue: ... and the question IS what do we want to pay for. Rather than cut what we think is wasteful, I'm saying (just for discussion) we scrap the whole deal and start from nothing.

What services are appropriate for the government to provide? Remember the government is "us."

PayDay · 11-14-2003, 10:59 AM

Quote:

$14.59 a month. Big whoop

My wife cuts my hair to save us $15 per month.

Quote:

OK, before this random "$20 million" figure gets out of hand - - read the news:

"$3 million in general fund money and $6 million in federal and other funds"

I have never understood how a program being federally funded means it is somehow no longer considered to be spending our money.

Similar issue with the motorhome. It's privately funded, and on the surface that seems to be a positive thing, but I think a town car would be less expensive to drive, and something tells me the governor probably won't use it to save on hotel bills when he travels around the state.

Little things do add up.

tailchaser · 11-14-2003, 12:12 PM

For one, I would open my wallet a lot easier to public entities if they went straight to those causes. Example, to a school fund, odfw, state police, or any specific entity that I agree we need help in. However, I won't ever go for anything that helps the general fund because I know how much money is wasted and how many people suck it dry for things I hate paying for. One in particualar is the gay/lesbian housing in Eugene. This alone has an operating cost of over 500,000 a year and is tapped from the fund. This is only one instance of how it's filtered away and the people that get hurt are the schools, cops, and people we really need in the community. Throw in another thing, healthcare for illegal aliens in Oregon. How many do you think there are? Everytime they go to a hospital we pay it out of the fund and they don't pay a dime because we can't send a man home that needs stitches. Give them the option of deportation and I guarantee this drops. Food for thought, if there were 30,000 illegals in the state and half visit the hospital for something, an average trip is 500 bucks, that's 7.5 million dollars we've paid for someone who's in our country illegally. Throw in how much we might pay for a trauma unit or a baby and we're talking a lot of money. It's no wonder this state is going bankrupt. The things I want to pay for are resonable, NOT the miscellaneous things that we really don't need.

tc

Artwo · 11-14-2003, 12:14 PM

I can see it now, the gov pulling the new motorhome up into elk camp and inviting us all in for dinner to discuss the latest in state economics

1pump · 11-14-2003, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Which basically means, "screw me". Too late, I already had that pleasure.

Nothing personal, Ruth. I'm the child of a retired fed employee, anyway. I'm becoming so anti-government lately I'm scaring myself. :shocked:

I pay $6,000 every year in child support. My tax credit for this? Zero. Nada.

I'm single, and I get taxed to death. Nearly 40% last time I looked at my payroll statement. I claim "zero", no dependents, not even myself. And yet the IRS still wants more at the end of the year.

Every 6 months my employer holds a mandatory meeting for all empoyees. Every time, the subject of raises comes up. Every time, it's the same thing-- "We can't give anybody raises. Our health insurance premiums are going up. If you want a raise, then you start paying the premiums." Since my employer is paying an average of $800 per employee every month nobody has much of an argument. Still, it gets old hearing the same song and dance every 6 months.

Our federal government wants to spend $87 billion in Iraq. Social Security will probably be gone by the time I retire (never mind the $50,000 or so they've already taken from me).
Every time I turn around Metro is sticking their fat fingers in my pocket to pay for sewers or to pay for runoff from the rain that I'm somehow responsible for.
Portland schools are the laughing stock of the country, yet the city wants to spend untold millions to cap it's reservoirs to guard against an imagined terrorist threat (maybe they should cap Bull Run while they're at it). And millions more to cover I405 to regain a few acres of lost real estate. And then the baseball issue.....

Am I complaining? Yep. Am I whining? Sure. Could things be worse? Absolutely.
I don't know about anybody else here, but I'm sick and tired of busting my arse a little harder every year, and every year the light at the end of the tunnel gets a little farther away. You do a little better, then taxes and inflation knock you backwards.
Man, I'm tired. I shouldn't be on LIG after a 14 hour day of abuse and injustice (aka work). [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

11-14-2003, 09:52 PM

STG,
Many in the private sector have had their wages cut many more aren�t working. In 1984 my employer felt that they could cut our pay from $20.05 to $12.00 and eliminated ALL benifits

Most of us walked out with our tools and didn't return until starvation and a $3.00 increase in wages and some benifits were returned.
I know I'd rather have a wage freeze than a wage cut or job elimination.

Things are still tough out here, use your bonus wisely.

STGRule · 11-14-2003, 10:12 PM

I do truly understand that it sucks just about everywhere right now. I won't presume to second-guess anybody when it comes to providing for his or her family. I guess I just get tired of hearing how good I have it when I don't. I get tired of the "public employees are breaking my back". I pay taxes too. Exactly the same ones as everybody else. Actually more. I am in the same boat as 1pump. We both have to have "extra" taxes taken out every month to keep from owing the IRS 2 arms and 2 legs at the end of the year. I am very blessed to have a job right now. But, I am not any better off than any private position as my job depends on funding being provided every year. No contract, no job. I get to go through this every year. I have it no worse or any better than anybody else does. I just wish we all had it better.