Wal-Mart...whatever's cheapest!!! @$#%^

TheRogue · 10-23-2003, 09:16 AM

Keeping with the true direction of their company..

Wal Mart busted for illegal alien workers.......AGAIN

Yes, they're contract employees...but do you think that Wal-Mart management doesn't know what's going on?

BsS.

TR

[ 10-23-2003, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

10-23-2003, 09:23 AM

I hate Walmart!!!

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 09:49 AM

AAahh........ the All American company!

Wonder what Paul Harvey has to say about this???

Thanks for exposing yet more double speak from a company that is doing America more harm than good....

fishbane · 10-23-2003, 10:22 AM

The walmart execs are most likely celebrating the fact they don't have to pay the contractors now and they will get away with the whole thing free and clear.

When I was a chef for Rock bottom. We had a really great guy that worked for us for about 3 weeks then the corp. office let me know his papers came up forged. Rockbottom had been busted and fined previously for hiring illegal.

I remember how happy the gm and regional manger were about not having to pay him. It was all free labor to them. If you discover an illegal you can't pay him just let him go and report his address.

I started a quick pool and even the corp. chef pitched in for him. He was just a great guy trying to support his family in Mexico.

Now I have a problem with illegal especially the criminals. But allot of these people are so exploited by companies in America it's tragic. We will never stop the flow of illegal into this country. Our whole life would stop without them. Especially for the rich. They can't make the high revenues using American workers.

Walmart is offensive to all Americans and all it's employees. It has been busted forcing minimum wage employees to work unpaid overtime. It has been busted for child labor violations. They purposely won't buy American made products whenever they can. They have ruined small town business, as we knew it. They take out insurance policies on employees and make themselves the beneficiaries, without the employee or his/her family consent or knowledge.

They say they support family/Christian values. Yet have been busted selling ammo and firearms to underage gang members. They pay minimum wage with virtually no benefits
If any. They are known for scheduling people so they don�t have enough hours to qualify for benefits.

Yet oh so many people will only shop there because they can save 5 dollars on their overall purchase.

by supporting Bush you support Walmart and all the other companies sticking it to us real americans not the ruling class.

Bait O' Eggs · 10-23-2003, 10:53 AM

Few stores I hate shopping at more than Walmart, but have you ever talked to a Walmart employee? :whazzup:

They think they have the best job in the world

I have an aunt that works there and because she is a manager she makes $0.25 per hour more the grunts

She wouldnt give it up for the world, once a year the company has a BBQ for the employees, she gets a free hamburger and chips.

She use to live in Lebanon working at Walmart, her husband lost his job and found one in Montana, his wife would only follow him if she could get transferred to the Walmart in the area.

Walmart coming soon to 82nd ave in Clackamas to the Home Depot building behind the Krispy Kreme store, :depressed: Oregon City just voted I think yesterday to not let Walmart move to some ground they were trying to build on [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Woody · 10-23-2003, 12:33 PM

Quote:

by supporting Bush you support Walmart and all the other companies sticking it to us real americans not the ruling class.

What the.....

This reminds me of that game "six degrees of seperation" Where any one in Hollywood can be linked to Kevin Bacon by six steps or less. Somehow, now matter what the issue, it's GW's fault.

As far as Walmart, I can't stand the place and refuse to shop there. Their predatory attitude when they move into a new area is disgusting. I really think they enjoy distroying other businesses. The store in Woodburn recently opened a grocery department. As a result of their "loss leader" pricing, the grocery store my wife works in has lost nearly 50% of their business and may be closed.

[ 10-23-2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Woody ]

CATCH AND EAT · 10-23-2003, 01:09 PM

Fishbane, with that last comment you should have been on Saturday Night Live.

Watch out for the black helicopters

I have shopped at Walmart one time. Have ya ever looked at the folks that are shopping there. Lots of lower wage earners, much like the folks that are working there. They go there for the prices and to keep the prices lower they have to cut somewhere.

I hate to see anyone taken advantage of when it comes to the work force and regarding the illegals I hope they get busted and but good. But a job is a job folks. In this economy that seems pretty important. If employed there and you buy into the companies philosophy then shut up and be happy. If not then simply find another job.

Don't know about you folks but I'd rather see a Walmart in my neighborhood than a smut shop. And if other stores can't keep up with the walmarts they better darn well rewrite their mission statement and change their business plan. Otherwise the big flushing sound will become extremely audible. This should be done before a companies business is down 50% don't ya think?

Lastly,if ya don't like what they are doing then don't do business there. That goes for any business you have supposed information on.

TheRogue · 10-23-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

And if other stores can't keep up with the walmarts they better darn well rewrite their mission statement and change their business plan.

To what??

"Will low-ball prices and hire the cheapest labor around with the cheapest goods to become a monopoly where-ever possible".

The American ideal is to do as well as you can with what you have. Unfortunately, the can sometimes come back to bite us in the butt, as the case with Wal-Mart...and NAFTA...and Intel jobs going overseas, and Boeing jobs, and importing cheap Canadian Lumber....and on and on.

TR

fishbane · 10-23-2003, 02:09 PM

My point was this admin is not doing a damn thing to help make anything better for workers ( here in the states anyway. They are helping the workers in Iraq and third world countries where bush, chenny and rice make money) and they support making things worse here so the rich get richer. The American is just sol. If we were investing into our own country the same amount of money they are in Iraq.Seperate of strict militsary operations We would have a greater place to live.

No child left behind is leaving more children behind then ever before because the schools are telling families your child doesn't have grades good enough to stay in school. So we can't get federal funding we need. your child has to go because she is holding the system back.It's not fair to the others. So now we have a larger generation of uneducated workers totally at the mercy of companies like walmart where people like bush make there money off the backs of the working poor.

So now you say go out and get a better job and education. With skyrocking costs on education how can working folks afford to send their kids?
With all the corparations with bush support cutting salaries and benfits but paying the execs more and genrating more profits with a smaller labor percentage. how do you purpose people achieve those goals?

Since Bush took office the deficit is becoming a huge monster. Don't blame 911 that is a falsehood. Yes gw inheirted part of it. But he is doing nothing but making things worse. The goverment is saying just based on his tax cut that our deficit will triple from now till the end of the thieves term. Our children and grand children will be paying this while bush family laughs all the way to the bank.

No local business can compete against walmart and there foriegn buying power. At least in the past independant local businesses could purchase and employee people at a good rate. Now it is all global.

Here's a thought for you

If we had universal health care here in the states
Like alll the other industrialized countries in the world. How much more money could American companies have available if they didn't have to include health care benefits?

The black helos oh yeah you may joke now but just wait. with people like ashcroft in power, Rollerball is only a few years away.
Someday you maybe fishing a hole and some corperate security guard comes up and tells you to leave. You say no and they have you arrested for being an eco terrorist so now they can hold you for 6 months under the patriot act before you can ever talk to lawyer.

So called eco terrorist are included in the patriot act. They really don't need any eveidence just THEY believe you are a terrorist.

Don't get me wrong I certainly do not support arson or any other act against logging or whatever.

DanS · 10-23-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

change their business plan

Right.

Hire the cheapest labor, buy the cheapest goods (from overseas, of course), and use predatory pricing to drive out the Ma & Pa competition.

Nice plan.

Thumper · 10-23-2003, 02:25 PM

Fishbane --- You covered a fair amount of territory there. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

You're not a Republican, are you? I can tell. :grin:

10-23-2003, 03:04 PM

Close all of our border, especially Oregon to all illegals.

Maybe Arnold will start with California.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-23-2003, 03:25 PM

Fishbane, all in one breath? WOW!!!!

Not trying to discount your concerns but you got off on a little tangent that served no purpose in this argument.

Dan and The Rogue, yeah, a business plan

Part of free enterprise and the evolution of the business community. Had to do it in my business when insurance companies started direct repair programs and chose mostly the big boys to work with. Boy howdy did I change things around fast and 11 years later I am still here and making a go of it. So why is it different for any of these folks facing a Walmart? It's not.

Furthermore we as "entitled Americans" have screwed ourselves by making all the huge demands of the past ( please don't lecture me on how business's in the old days screwed the employees. I understand and agree okay). I want healthcare for me and my family, a car allowance, pay for my gas, dental, life insurance, 401k, bonuses, 3 week vacation paid, 26 sick days paid and so on. Maybe the work force got a little to greedy? Maybe that is why we look elsewhere for cheaper labor and materials?

Now we complain that industry is leaving our state. Have ya paid attention to the tax structure here. Good golly it is rediculas!!! No wonder big companies are heading south. Makes no sence to be here that is for sure.

So what is industry to do boys. Roll over and die? Or do they follow suit and change their ways to stay in business?

Just so you know, I am not trying to defend Walmart just trying to point out that no one said economics was suppose to be fair. I speak from experience on this one. Certainly others have experienced the same? Then again maybe not.

Must not have any competition.

DanS · 10-23-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

no one said economics was suppose to be fair

Fair? Maybe not. But the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was put into effect for businesses that thought monopolies and predatory pricing were fair.

A business with no ethics becoming successful is something that should worry us........not something that should be held up as a business model that should be followed. Wal-Mart's ethics are questionable at best.

foxer · 10-23-2003, 03:48 PM

Will not shop Wal mart unless there is no alternative. Its cheap because most of the products they sell are cheap. Most of the things they sell cannot be purchased elsewhere. Oh yeah, you still need PROBABLE CAUSE to be arrested under the patriot act. Eco terrorists need to be put away for a very long time...Now where is that little trey arrow that Vera let go...

CATCH AND EAT · 10-23-2003, 03:54 PM

Not sure Sherman Anti-trust act applies here Dan. Number one issue of the thread is illegal hires. They broke the law here and they should pay dearly for it. We will agree on this, yes?

If they are breaking the Anti trust act then big brother will step in and ruin the party. Part of competition is remaining competitive. Unfortunatly remaining competitive will not happen with the free trade acts we have in place at this time. Cheaper labor, materials means cheaper product in the long run. America cannot compete at this level without eliminating free trade and thus squawshing free enterprise. Conclusion, we have priced ourselves out of the world, national, state, city, neighborhood markets.

Will Americans change their ways? Nope. Will American business change their ways? you bet. to stay in business they will go where ever labor and industry is encouraged and whip a little industry on those countries.

Will Walmart survive? Yes because they have adapted: at least until the next cut rate retailer hits town. You do remember Builders Square, Pay and Pak don't ya. They did'nt change their ways and well.......ya saw what happened to them.

TheRogue · 10-23-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Not sure Sherman Anti-trust act applies here Dan. Number one issue of the thread is illegal hires. They broke the law here and they should pay dearly for it. We will agree on this, yes?

If they are breaking the Anti trust act then big brother will step in and ruin the party. Part of competition is remaining competitive. Unfortunatly remaining competitive will not happen with the free trade acts we have in place at this time. Cheaper labor, materials means cheaper product in the long run. America cannot compete at this level without eliminating free trade and thus squawshing free enterprise. Conclusion, we have priced ourselves out of the world, national, state, city, neighborhood markets.

Will Americans change their ways? Nope. Will American business change their ways? you bet. to stay in business they will go where ever labor and industry is encouraged and whip a little industry on those countries.

Will Walmart survive? Yes because they have adapted: at least until the next cut rate retailer hits town. You do remember Builders Square, Pay and Pak don't ya. They did'nt change their ways and well.......ya saw what happened to them.

Unfortunately, I agree with everything you say here...that is just the way it is......but, in 40 years at the rate we're going, what is there going to be to do in this country? Are all blue-collar jobs going to be gone? Not everyone can work for Walmart or government agencies! What do you see happening? Not be sarcastic, but quite frankly it worries the crud out of me.... I'd like to have some sort of careers for my kids and grandkids so they can support me :grin: :grin:

TR

Cool Texan · 10-23-2003, 05:25 PM

I have a hard time hating Wal Mart or companies like them. Its nothing more than free market capitalism at work. I can relate to the "Buy American" sentiments I have heard here...but given that, it is my choice to shop there or not shop there. However, I can not hate the company for simply maximizing their profits the way they know how.

As for putting mom and pop shops out of business...that is not always a bad thing actually. What they will do is put out of business the mom and pop shops which offer nothing more than various products at their associated prices. What Wal-Mart wont do is put out of business the mom and pops which offer something more than just the products in question. Those which are willing and able to offer other services or experiences will continue to thrive, and will continue to steal certain customers away from Wal-Mart even.

There will always be customers though who only care about price, and nothing more....which is where Wal-Mart thrives. So lets look at those customers. What is Wal-Mart doing to society that the internet is not also doing? Wal-Mart is offering up superior distribution channels which enable low prices for customers. The internet goes one step above that even...allowing for invisible distribution partnerships, little or no real physical store fronts, and thus lower prices than the mom and pop's are able to offer, and with more products than the mom and pops can match. The free exchange of information via the online marketplace is one of the biggest threats for mom and pop's, not the Wal-Marts of the world.

Ok...tangent over. Carry on.

Mad Mikey · 10-23-2003, 05:38 PM

I'm pretty conservative but I am with the liberals and the unions on this one. Straydog I agree with you whole heartedly(it happens once in a while :grin: )
Being in the retail grocery business I am very up to speed on this issue.
Walmart gets a grip in a small town, prices out a sector like auto parts. After they kill them they bump their prices back up and go after another,say sporting goods. You get the picture. On and on it goes.
Walmart is #1 in the world for buying power, they get the best deals. They can afford to run a store at a loss for years to price out the little guys.
They are BAD for small towns. They do create jobs but not good ones. They are also on the "workfare" program, hiring welfare recipients at low end wages, keeping employees at substandard hours to avoid benefits.
True, it's good to have welfare people working but taxpayers are subsidising them to take away jobs.
I'm all for the free market, the customer is king.
Fortunately some of the small towns in OR are getting smart to this and rebuking the Walmart onslaught.
LaGrande is my hometown, I'm getting ready to move back in the Spring. There is a Walmart store outside of town that has been pushing to build a super store, the community is resisting because they see what will happen.
If Walmart gets a grocery store aside it's regular shop it will take out at least two of the three grocery chains there.
The power is in the peoples' pocket books, I'm lucky enough to work for the chain that will not go down.
Sad to say I am not a Paul Harvey fan anymore, his cheesy down home accolades for Walmart make me want to puke. Yeah, the truckers stop for disabled vehicles but the truckers are still Teamsters and have great jobs.
Truckers have a lot of time to sit and think about their contracts while driving the highways. They know they won't get screwed because the goods HAVE to be moved.

Argh!

DanS · 10-23-2003, 05:44 PM

C&E,

No the Sherman act isn't applicable here. I only brought it up to show the companies WILL act in such a manner when a Laisssez-Faire view is held by the government.

I agree that Wal Mart is doing nothing more than delivering what the American consumer wants. It's HOW they deliver it that I don't like. I feel their labor practices are unethical and border on illegal (we'll see what the investigation uncovers).

The American consumer will reap what they sow when it comes to buying at Wal Mart. You buy the cheapest, and you get what you pay for.

If Wal-Mart was the only good business model, there would BE no Mercedes-Benz, no Virgin-Atlantic Airlines, no Loomis rods, etc. Judging by profitablility alone, Wal Mart is a super business model. But there are other successful business models being used by companies that don't treat their workers unfairly. Porfitablility and high ethical standards aren't mutually exclusive.

Anyway, this is just one consumer's opinion. If I had 20 billion schmullions to spend next year, corporate execs might actually listen to me. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Cool Texan · 10-23-2003, 05:50 PM

Also, along these lines...there is a reason that Home Depot has not put True Value out of business....similar, yet slightly different principles at play, but a lot of similarities.

10-23-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ******:
Close all of our border, especially Oregon to all illegals.

Maybe Arnold will start with California.

Hey 'Nook I would be happy if they closed Hillsboro's borders wouldn't you?

Snapset · 10-23-2003, 06:50 PM

As far as Walmart goes, I am not a fan. I think that it is not a partisan issue, regarding the loss of family wage jobs, but I sure don't have any economically sound ideas for saving these jobs. I do know it MUST start by saving our manufacturing jobs, both professional and hourly.

[ 10-23-2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Snapset ]

lingslayer · 10-23-2003, 07:16 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
Wal-Mart,... Came to national dominance in the '90's. Home town in Arkansas.

As is Tyson, the fish monger of the new age, and lobbying opponent of the sport fisher.

I'm not a black helicopter buff but I can smell a rat now and then.
Jamie

feisty's wife · 10-23-2003, 07:25 PM

Why dont you guys say how you REALLY feel about Wal-Mart?

: : :

1pump · 10-23-2003, 07:29 PM

This reminds me of the Portland School District custodians losing their jobs when a contractor took over.
Taxpayers applauded, but many family wage jobs were lost so one contractor could make a fortune. Same thing at Wal-Mart. You might save a buck when you shop there, but you're widening the gap between the rich and the rest of us. The Walton family is getting fat by exploiting hundreds of thousands of employees all over the world.

Anybody seen the recent Forbes 400 list? I seem to recall a generous sprinkling of Waltons on there.
How much money does one family need?

1pump · 10-23-2003, 07:37 PM

OK, I went one better and found the top ten on Forbes list:

1. Bill Gates
2. Warren Buffett
3. Paul Allen
4. Helen Walton
5. S. Robson Walton
6. John Walton
7. Jim Walton
8. Alice Walton
9. Larry Ellison
10. Michael Dell

There ya go. Half of the top ten.
They don't need my money, and they're not going to get it. I'm sure they won't notice, but at least I'll feel better. [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

I wonder if they lie in bed at night and yell "good night" to each other like the TV Waltons did......

[ 10-23-2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: 1pump ]

Cool Texan · 10-23-2003, 11:05 PM

1pump, what kind of computer are you using when you post? (the only safe answer is a Mac or Linux).

skein · 10-23-2003, 11:07 PM

Fishbane,

Quote:

by supporting Bush you support Walmart and all the other companies sticking it to us real americans not the ruling class

Huh? I agreed with you right up 'til then.

It wasn't Georgy-porgie who voted to let Walmart come into our town. It was the vast majority of our community. Go look at the parking lot. I doubt that those are all registered Republicans parked out there. And when they were setting up, no less than 1,500 people lined up for less than 250 jobs, most of which were minimum-wage and part-time.

Don't get me wrong, I would rather go to the dentist than to Walmart, but this ain't George's doing. It's yours and mine and our neighbors.

PS. My wife is still talking about the day she got me to go to Costco AND Walmart in the same day. I haven't done it since. Ugh.

Skein

Thumper · 10-23-2003, 11:13 PM

Yep, it's all George Bush's fault. You guys break me up.

Stratocaster · 10-23-2003, 11:17 PM

[QUOTE(the only safe answer is a Mac or Linux).] [/QUOTE]

You meant XP pro? Thought so. Havent crashed in a year. Thanks BillG!

That darn monopolist. :grin:

[ 10-24-2003, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

Birdnest · 10-23-2003, 11:33 PM

If there is ever a democratic elected to the white house

, a lot people on Ifish will actually have to find someone else to blame for their lot in life.

Joe

pdxkevin · 10-23-2003, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thumper:
Yep, it's all George Bush's fault. You guys break me up.

You beat me to it...

Let's face it, there are not a lot of politions out there who are willing to do anything significant to stem the invasion. Heck, some are making it legal for illegals (from any country) to get drivers licenses. S-1645 is going up for a vote soon to give amnesty to those who are here illegally long enough and haven't been caught and sent back yet. In this case, crime does pay.

Invasion... with estimated numbers as high as they are... what else would it be called? (and no.. I don't care what country they are coming from) It needs to be fair - everyone should enter through the same system with the same opportunity as the next. If there is a larger amount of people trying to gain access today as there was years ago, then we need to look at increasing the number processed. There are a lot of nice people from many countries who want to come to America. No group or country should have the advatage over another. Peroid. Treat them all equally.

Any company hiring illegals should be dealt with severly. Walmart needs to get punished as does the subcontracting firm that did the actual hiring.

Paddlefish · 10-23-2003, 11:53 PM

B.O.E.:

Walmart, Home Depot and Krispy Kreme?

Looks like Clackamas County won the trifecta again.

TundraIII · 10-24-2003, 06:29 AM

I despise Walmart , you wont see me within those doors.

Sorry Stew and ******.....Hillsboro is already lost. I can say that because I have lived in the Hillsboro area for more than 20yrs and I remember what a neat town it was.

Lingslayer,I agree with you about Tyson. You wont find a Tyson product in my fridge or freezer . How could anyone buy a yellow grainy looking Tyson chicken product over a nice fresh white Foster Farms or Lynden Farms chicken product? That Tyson crap is scary and gross. Besides I watched the 60 Minutes episode on the Tyson Chicken processing plant and their business practices. The program showed whole chickens sitting in what was referred to as "fecal soup". Each chicken gains approx. 12 percent of its shipping weight by absorbing fecal contaminated water before it is packaged and sent to retailers. I always wondered why their chickens looked so yellow next to the fresh local stuff. :grin:

[ 10-24-2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: TundraIII ]

ORrinker · 10-24-2003, 07:29 AM

Has anybody else noticed that Fred Meyer can pretty much move in and build a new store anywhere they see fit but when Walmart tries to build it becomes a huge issue. I wonder how much Fred Meyer pays for that privilege?

BTW, what is the difference between Fred Meyer and Walmart? Here are the differences I see:

1. Fred Meyer offers the same or same quality products but at higher prices.

2. Since I know people that work at both I can attest to the fact that Walmart seems to treat their employees better and thus they are happier.

3. Fred Meyer has put more ma & pa shops out of business in our area than Walmart ever will.

A ma & pa shop can stay in business! It just means that they have to offer better service to compensate for the higher prices they must charge.

Example: Recently I purchased a high end lawn mower from Washco Power Equipment in Beaverton. Yes, I could have bought it cheaper at Lowes or Home Depot but I could not have expected the excellent customer service I received.

All-in-all we expect as a customer to get the most bang for our buck and that is what drives our free trade economy. If you do not like chain stores don't buy from them but nobody has the right to attempt to restrict my right.

Randy

[ 10-24-2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: ORrinker ]

1pump · 10-24-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

1pump, what kind of computer are you using when you post? (the only safe answer is a Mac or Linux).

As soon as I posted that list, I knew that somebody would point a finger at Gates or Allen.
I dare anybody to compare the per capita incomes of Microsoft employees vs Wal-Mart employees.
And Gates gives a ton of his money away (what else can you do when you're that loaded?). I admit that I don't know anything about the philanthropic habits of the Waltons.
I really don't fault the Walton family for their success. It's the feeble-minded masses that got them there. Price-driven retailing at it's worst.

BTW, I'm not happy with my recent XP upgrade. It's almost as unstable as ME.

[ 10-24-2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: 1pump ]

foxer · 10-24-2003, 10:38 AM

Sorry Orinker, your wrong. I was in Newport this summer and the wife forgot to pack a beach blanket. We first went to walmart. I looked around quite a bit. We ended up getting the blanket for like $6. We then went to Fred's to get a couple lawn chairs. From what I saw, the only common products were cleaning supplies. Most of the Walmart stuff was off brands thatI have never seen before. Oh yeah, the blanket now sits in the back of the explorer for the dog. Kinda feel sorry for the dog. That blanket is not even wor

th $6

Miss B Haven · 10-24-2003, 10:38 AM

I don't see Mary Ellen on the list. :whazzup:

Good night John Boy! (bonk bonk!) :shocked: :grin:

10-24-2003, 12:42 PM

Stew, VERY happy.

dimwit · 10-24-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Each chicken gains approx. 12 percent of its shipping weight by absorbing fecal contaminated water before it is packaged and sent to retailers.

Now that's why I eat wild game.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-24-2003, 03:07 PM

Not Popeye's Chicken.

Fresh rat never tasted better. :shocked:

May I take your order please?