Suckers or good Samaritans??

Pilar · 10-22-2003, 01:40 PM

You've all seen them .. the pitiful souls with the cardboard signs that say

Down on my luck
Lost my job
Homeless Vet
Will work for food
God Bless

They hang out in downtown Portland at every freeway and bridge ramp, in Beaverton and many other places. I've often thought "What is the deal with these guys?" You see a few good samaritans hand over money, cigarettes, food, etc.

A few years ago my buddy 'Puffin' met somebody in Mexico during a winter vacation. The guy was tending a food cart in Cabo and looked familiar to Jon. He asked him .. 'Hey man, where have I seen you before? Do you live in Portland?' Then it dawned on Jon .. He had seen this guy, looking quite a bit scruffier, begging at a freeway ramp in downtown Portland almost every day the previous summer. "Yeah I get quite a bit every summer, tax free and I spend my winters down here in Mexico, just goofing off".

I listened to this story and I thought this reminds me of the bit in the book 'Hearts in Atlantis' where Stephen King describes a guy living in New York City and scamming the good folks there with his version of the hard luck story by day and living as an upscale suburbanite with a family by evening. Just a story, I thought.

Then a few days ago I saw something that made me wonder again. I was going south on 217 to work and got off at the Hwy6/Hwy8 exit by mistake. A few cars ahead of me a purple Dodge Caravan stopped short of the intersection to let a guy get out. He carried his crap to the curb and proceeded to don an aircast, a raggy looking jacket and a ducttaped backpack and while the light was red hobbled to the corner of Hwy 8 and the 217 off ramp with his sign to beg for money. "Homeless, will work for a bus ticket to New Mexico, please help me." it said. It was just too much. The van crossed the intersection and stopped short of the second intersection at Hwy 6 and the 217 off ramp and a second guy got out and took up position at that intersection with his cardboard sign. The van went on to the metered ramp at the on ramp of 217 and a third guy got out of the van with his sign.

So ... what? is the guy with the van running a homeless shelter? Is there something wrong with this picture?

How many of these people are really what they seem to be? Are you a sucker for giving these guys money?

Do we as a society lose something when we tolerate these parasites?

[ 10-22-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

TheRogue · 10-22-2003, 01:47 PM

I work right downtown PDX on 1st and Oak. I see it everyday. No doubt, there are those who for whatever reasons (drug brain damage, disabilities, etc.) are a lost cause and my heart goes out to them.

However, I really believe that in PDX anyway, the majority of those on the street are there because its exactly where they want to be!! Way too many healthy young people, panhandling and being vagrants.

We had a discussion here in LIG about this a while back, seems like one of the radio or TV stations exposed a lot of the falacies about these "poor people". The do-gooders jumped all over them.

TR

wannacatchem · 10-22-2003, 01:47 PM

I used to give these guys spare change....then several years ago after some hard times, decided that despite what ever problems I had, if I could pull myself out of the hole, why couldn't they? Since then have seen way to many stories about 99.9% of them being scammers, so, nobody gets a dime from me.

TheRogue · 10-22-2003, 01:50 PM

Here's a link to that past discussion.....

KATU street people piece

TR

jokester · 10-22-2003, 01:58 PM

Sometimes I, like you, wonder about these people. Are these really homeless vets who are willing to do anything for work and food, or are these people scamming hard working citizens out of their money? I'm sure a handful of these people are actually homeless and need food and shelter, but I once witnessed something 6 or 7 years ago that's changed my mind about this whole subject, and unfortunately for those who are really in need, it's ruined my portion of their income!

I was eating at McDonalds across the street and got to see the whole thing. This guy had been standing out on the corner all day long with his "will work for food...family hungry and in need" sign. He was dressed "decent", and when I say that, I mean by no means in designer clothes or brand names but still presentable. Anywho, he got done with his "shift" on the corner with his sign, walked around to the back of the store he was standing out in front of, got in and drove off in his LEXUS!!! Needless to say, I WAS FUMING!!!!

The first thought through my mind was...what a creep!! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Used to, i'd reach down in my pocket, and being the nice guy, just give them the loose change I had in there, but ever since this day, I no longer participate in giving to the people on the street.

-jokester

Pilar · 10-22-2003, 01:59 PM

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=54214

The picture at the top of this story that's the guy who Jon saw in Cabo. He pointed the dude out to me last year when we drove by him at the Ross island bridge.

I missed the original thread, sorry. I'm totally disgusted and view these individuals as equivalent or the same as graffitti painted buildings, boarded up drug houses or any of the other hallmarks of our decadent, morally permissive society.

They are here because we allow it.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-22-2003, 02:25 PM

This is a subject that really pees me off John. There are people out there in our society that are really in need and are not making it. Then jerks like this guy you mentioned come along and ruin the whole deal. Gime gime gime....I am just absolutly sick of it. I have no compassion for beggars con-artists. I won't even give them a sack of coal. My gift to them is an

look and I have been known to roll down my window and yell at them to get a job. Probably not to smart but they are no more than leaches.

Miss B Haven · 10-22-2003, 02:29 PM

Not all street beggers are phony. Some/most maybe but not all. The way to tell is offer them something OTHER than money.
Offer to buy them a sandwich or cup of coffee at a restraunt. Offer them work (OMG- :shocked: ). Offer them anything but a cash handout. If they are sincere they'll take you up on it. :smile: If not you'll know they are full time self employeed (tax free) panhandlers or supporting a drug/alcohol habit and have no interest in food or work.
[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Buck50 · 10-22-2003, 02:37 PM

Just as I always suspected, it's a franchise!

reeldick · 10-22-2003, 03:08 PM

I saw one of the guys at the 185th eastbound
on-ramp on Hwy 26 get out of a Tahoe he parked by the bank. He had his cardboard sign, goes over the fence to get his spot for the afternoon traffic. He was driving a nicer car than I was.

Steelhead Hound · 10-22-2003, 03:41 PM

90% of it is all just a big scam. Some of them are ligit and need help. But many are not...I once saw a van droping them off every couple of blocks in Vancover once. And I drove by one of them and 3 hrs later when I drove by again...It was someone new...

jocose · 10-22-2003, 03:43 PM

tuesday at the off ramp from I5 boadway/rosegarden exit. theres a narrow medium on the left where they stand with signs, i watched what appeared to be a shift change.. this fellow walks across the road into the medium where next to where i was waiting for the light to change and paid the scruffy guy already there a wad of cash, then took his sign and the first guy crossed the street and disapeared behind some bushes.... the light changed and i drove off amazed at what i saw....

joco

10-22-2003, 05:32 PM

PILAR!!!

I just got a franchise and me and the kids were going to start work tomorrow :shocked:

[ 10-22-2003, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

freespool · 10-22-2003, 06:04 PM

I was coming home from T-Bay and took the 6th street exit off 405. There was a guy at the light with a sign that read,why lie?I need a beer. My buddy and I gave the guy 5 bucks. Then we laughed all the way home.

Pilar · 10-22-2003, 06:16 PM

Keta, bring a gas mask. Some dark moonless night soon I am going to empty my bait freezer to the blackberry bushes near some of the more profitable spots.

People rolling up to the intersection will roll up their windows in disgust. The freeloaders will have to eat rotten fish or move on.

It could work.

Rod Holder · 10-22-2003, 07:46 PM

Hey, sounds like a nice, low overhead business, at least we aren't required by law to do business with them......like insurance agents

what's worse the panhandler or the TV evanglist?

jocose · 10-22-2003, 08:28 PM

i watched a guy hide his sign behind a piece of plywood on the corner of 23rd and nw vaughn... i thought maybe i would make a sign similar to his saying ... " dont give me a dime its a scam " my bet is this guy would just unfold it and do his shift not knowing that his sign had been switched for mine... i am compassionate too and give to the united way, goodwill and salvation army.

notaclue · 10-22-2003, 11:46 PM

my brother in-law owns a small business. one day when he came up short handed, he offered to pay a guy with a "will work for food" sign $15 a hour. he got told no thanks, i make more doing this. and thats why i don't give them any thing, they make just about as much as i do with out my help.

pdxkevin · 10-23-2003, 06:12 AM

Portland is not the only place in the US that has this problem. Now, there is a program out there in the US and it is spreading and growing because it works. It is "Real Change Not Spare Change" <=link

...Support the Portland Business Alliance Real Change Not Spare Change program. Instead of giving change to a panhandler, give a voucher redeemable for food, showers, transit and clothing from Sisters of the Road Cafe, Transition Projects, New Avenues for Youth and Outside In.

Vouchers cost 25� each and are available in books of four at the locations listed (in the link above)...

Las Vegas cleaned up their streets through programs like this and tough, enforced new laws banning panhandling.

This program provides a legitimate avenue to change. There are people who need help and there are people loking for easy money. This will provide an easy way to ensure te first group gets some of the help they are asking for.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that the donation you just made is actually going towards helping them and not getting their fix paid for?

[ 10-23-2003, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: pdxkevin ]

Silver Hilton · 10-23-2003, 06:29 AM

I won't give to panhandlers. What I have heard from interviews with people who run shelters is a) most of these people are substance abusers, and the money largely just lets them continue abusing, and b) this is a pretty good living for these folks. The folks that want to work have day labor outlets through Labor Ready and similar outfits. I've offered food to the folks with signs asking for food, and gotten looks of disgust.

Nothing against anyone who chooses to give. I just won't. I give to United Way and Tha Salvation Army directly.

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 06:35 AM

Tough call. Some are legit, some not.

My bet is the travel agents don't keep files on all of them headed to Cabo........

The thing is, right or wrong, like em or don't, be prepared for a lot more of them if the surtax gets overturned. Mental health issues are the root of most of them and with the downturn in mental health services we will be seeing a lot more of them in every town in Oregon.

I'm wondering what the reaction will be if we start seeing senior citizens with signs that say "Please help, need my meds".

I saw an interesting article yesterday that claims something like 60% of the people in our nations prisons have mental health problems that put them there.....

pdxkevin · 10-23-2003, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
...I saw an interesting article yesterday that claims something like 60% of the people in our nations prisons have mental health problems that put them there.....

I bet it was the crimes they commited that put them there.

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pdxkevin:
I bet it was the crimes they commited that put them there.

Wow, what a revelation!! :shocked: :blush:

The point is if we don't, as a society, deal with the mentally ill as such, they will indeed commit crimes. Needing to eat sometimes does that to people as does not knowing which voice in your head to listen to.

The question is, do we spend the money to treat them as mentally ill people need to be treated or do we spend the money to warehouse them in prisons?

[ 10-23-2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

CATCH AND EAT · 10-23-2003, 07:11 AM

Don't recall anyone saying they (the franchised homeless) are all rich and driving. What was said is they are living tax free off the dummies that hand them money without verifying they are truely needy. Believe me I have seen the truly needed and hurting and I do help them if I can but not with money. Like Mel said, groceries or clothing is as far as I go. Never ever money.

If you give money to these morons at the off ramps then I am sorry, you are indeed a fool.

[ 10-23-2003, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 07:35 AM

As I stated earlier, this is a tough call.

I don't give to these people but have to admit to at times having somwhat of a guilt trip for not. Not often, but sometimes some do get to me.

My daughter and I got a real lesson on this many years ago. At her insistance we gave one a dollar in our little town. Later that day we were in a Pizza parlor in the area and there was our guy sucking down beer. Man, my daughter was ticked for a 9 year old!! Neither of us have given since.

This thread has made wonder how many that feel duped by these people for taking money to support substance abuse habits feel just as duped for listening to Rush Limbaugh and contributing to his substance abuse habit?

Maybe most feel Rush is giving something back in the form of entertainment, and it is therefor ok to be duped by him in order to support his drug habit and will be right back to turning on their radios if and when he returns to the air waves.....??

What if he held a sign that said "Will Generalize, Hyperbole, Degrade and Lie for Pain Pills"? I wonder if that would change some people's view?? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 10-23-2003, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Pilar · 10-23-2003, 08:06 AM

Brion .... No one is saying they are 'all rich'. I am not saying that anyway. What I am saying is that they are pretty much 100% scam.

What I am saying is that the gentleman you see in the KATU story that I linked was spotted in Cabo 3 winters ago by a good friend of mine and that my good friend had a conversation with him which I quoted in my post. Draw your own conclusions but do not make them my conclusions either directly or by inference.

Fact ... I have seen this guy for the last 5 years as I drive to and from work every working day in the afternoon except during the worst of winter(Dec to March).

Fact ... you can see him too at the on ramp to the east bound Ross island bridge from I-5.

Fact ... He is a fraud and enough people are dumb enough to give him money that he is not motivated to contribute to our society.

Fact ... You definitely know more about a 'monkey house' as I have never seen the inside of one. You speak as if you have much more experience in this area.

As for why you should care about this plague on our state and my town. You should care for the same reason you should care when people treat the place where you live with disrespect. You should be offended for the same reason you should be offended when you find a garbage dump at your fishing hole parking spot. You should do something about it for the same reason that you should do something to close down a crankster house on your street.

They are there because we allow it. End of story.

Paddlefish · 10-23-2003, 08:20 AM

I don't think ANY responsible, legitimate organization working with the mentally ill, unemployed, homeless, handicapped, or even ex-cons would recommend handing cash to the freeway ramp exhaust suckers.

If you'd like to aid one of those organizations and their professional staffs, cut the tax/government link and donate to them directly or go through the United Way and specify exactly which organization(s) you want your money to go to.

And if there's a legitimate "will ____ for food" guy out there on the road somewhere, "Sorry, guy. You'll have to 'go through channels' to get my money. Too many spongers have ruined it for you."

10-23-2003, 08:29 AM

Pilar,

Quote:

As for why you should care about this plague on our state and my town. You should care for the same reason you should care when people treat the place where you live with disrespect. You should be offended for the same reason you should be offended when you find a garbage dump at your fishing hole parking spot. You should do something about it for the same reason that you should do something to close down a crankster house on your street.

They are there because we allow it. End of story.

The bait idea is a good one. When the "donations" are down they can have some sashimi.

fish assassin · 10-23-2003, 09:03 AM

Well said, Stray Dog!! Most wouldn't look at the issue in THAT light!

-assAssin-

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:

This thread has made wonder how many that feel duped by these people for taking money to support substance abuse habits feel just as duped for listening to Rush Limbaugh and contributing to his substance abuse habit?

Maybe most feel Rush is giving something back in the form of entertainment, and it is therefor ok to be duped by him in order to support his drug habit and will be right back to turning on their radios if and when he returns to the air waves.....??

What if he held a sign that said "Will Generalize, Hyperbole, Degrade and Lie for Pain Pills"? I wonder if that would change some people's view?? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

pathetic novice · 10-23-2003, 09:11 AM

As a recovering drunk who works intensively with some pretty hard cases on a daily basis, I think I'm semi-qualified to offer an opinion. Based on my experience, drunk and sober, the offramp beggars are FULL OF CRAP!! No exceptions. I have helped and continue to help a handful of guys with histories you would be scared to believe. Not one of them, myself included, has ever done the "professional begging" gig. A couple have blearily staggered around asking people for a dollar or two for beer, but that is definitely the exception rather than the rule. When you're that low and pathetic (not judging, just talking from experience), the last thing in the world you want is a ton of people seeing you! Scrounging for cans, cigarette butts, pay phone change, etc... that's what the non-scammers are doing. Heads down, hoping to hell nobody they used to know walks by and recognizes them. Some get help from time to time, and some even stick with it long enough for things to gradually change for them. I know because I'm one of 'em. No booze or dope for over 14 years so far. Not bragging, just grateful! While funding/services for mentally ill, addiction services, etc. are obviously becoming scarcer, there are still options and tools available to almost anyone. Before someone jumps all over me with "well my (insert relative or friend here) couldn't get help with... we have to look long and hard for our help sometimes, and when help is available, even if it's only a sliver of hope, we have to cling to it w/ both hands and not bag it because it's "too hard", or "they don't understand". When I first went to AA meetings, I foggily tried to explain to some of them what was lacking in their approach. Some crusty old dude told me, "Hey, YOU came to US for help; don't try to tell us how to do this!" He was right. If someone wants help with changing their situation (no matter what the situation is), that someone can't be too picky, too prideful, or too belligerent or it probably won't work. For God's sake, getting your life transformed from a walking talking piece of human refuse to a productive decent person is a helluva rough job; it's not supposed to be easy! Sorry (sort of) for being so long winded, but trust me, if you're handing out cash to "rampers" you might as well just flush it instead.

10-23-2003, 09:13 AM

Quote:

"Will Generalize, Hyperbole, Degrade and Lie for Pain Pills"?

Dog,
I wish it were that easy, I haven't had a "Fix" for a few months and you can probably tell by my attitude when posting. We should try and get out fishing again and revive our friendship. The browns in Lake of the Woods should be in their fall feeding frenzy by now.

[ 10-23-2003, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Birdnest · 10-23-2003, 10:09 AM

Pathetic Novice-nice post with lots of insight.

The "down on my luck" signs kill me. Luck would suggest that they are in that circumstance due to pure chance. The truth is they are there due to a series of poor decisions. It seems they are unable to accept responsibility for their own actions, but instead walk around as perpetual victims.

Let's play a game, we'll call it "How I got here"

Players: Bob and Rob

Bob: No thanks, I have homework tonight.
Rob: Cool, I'll pick up some beer and be right over.

Bob: No thanks, my coach doesn't want us partying.
Rob: Cool, I still have some bud, let's party.

Bob: No thanks, I am studying for my SAT's.
Rob: Cool, sounds good, I didn't study for that test anyway.

Bob: No thanks, I am working this summer to help pay for college.
Rob: Cool, I'll just call in sick, let's go.

Bob: No thanks, I am going to do an internship.
Rob: Cool, my unemployment check should be here anytime.

Bob: No thanks, I feel the Intel job is a better fit.
Rob: Cool, somebody left a half a cigarette.

Rob: Hey can I wash your window? Give me a dollar.
Bob: No thanks, I'm late for work.

Joe

OceanBlue · 10-23-2003, 10:49 AM

Pathetic Novice -

Congratulations! I have a tremendous amount of respect for you!

All - I am in the process of printing copies of the following for storage in my car and use when I see these folks on the on/off ramps. This way, I get the satisfaction of knowing I have helped if the individual truly needs it... and maybe, just maybe if they don't.

If you are truly in need, these resources can help you. If you are a fraud, think about how what you are doing is taking away from those truly in need. Please don�t litter. Have a nice day.

Oregon Food Bank
7900 N.E. 33rd Drive
Portland OR
503-282-0555
Emergency Food

Oregon Food Bank
21485 N.W. Mauzey Road
Hillsboro, OR 97124
503-439-6510
Emergency Food

Sisters Of The Road Caf�
133 NW Sixth Avenue
Portland, Oregon
503-222-5694
First meal free. Find out about working for food.

Outside In
1132 SW 13th Ave
Portland, Oregon
503-535-3800
Help for Youths. If you are under 21 you may also call the New Avenues Youth Hotline: 1-800-995-7936

Community Service Center
475 NW Glisan Street
Portland, Oregon 97209
503-823-4930
A place to find shelter and services available to you.

Oregon SafeNet
503-988-5858
Hotline staff can tell you about programs like food stamps, Summer Food, school meals, WIC, and the Oregon Health Plan.

Feel free to copy and print for your own use. I found most of these resources as a result of visiting the "real change not spare change" web site that PDXKevin posted. I won't buy the vouchers because I don't think they'd be used by the scammers. I would consider using them if I spent much time walking around downtown, though. Like Pathetic Novice points out, individuals that need those vouchers are probably the ones hiding under newspapers on benches and in doorways.

BrionLutz · 10-23-2003, 02:02 PM

C&E,

Quote:

Don't recall anyone saying they (the franchised homeless) are all rich and driving.

Read back through this thread, one guy claims he sees them in Cabo in the winter and driving to "work" here in a Lexus.

You don't want to give'me money then don't but whipping on homeless beggars seems a bit low to me.

Brion

OceanBlue · 10-23-2003, 02:30 PM

Brion, no one is whipping on homeless beggars. I believe what we're all saying here is that the fakers are hurting everyone... and that lots (or perhaps even most) of the on/off-ramp beggars are fakers. And in addition to that, if folks want to help, there are appropriate ways to do it. Giving freeway beggars money isn't it.

Which part of this do you disagree with?

Birdnest · 10-23-2003, 02:48 PM

I might be mistaken, but the other day I thought I saw a guy on the corner holding this sign...

"Need money for DSL line. Would like to annoy everyone on Ifish a little faster"

OceanBlue · 10-23-2003, 02:53 PM

Birdnest - [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] I hope you'll be at the TA meeting, I need to buy you a beer, man!

Miss B Haven · 10-23-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Birdnest:
Bob: No thanks, I feel the Intel job is a better fit.

Just goes to show that there are worse things than being a streetcorner panhandler! :whazzup: :grin:

Miss B Haven · 10-23-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanBlue:
. Hey... there's an idea! If the state won't prosecute panhandling, they'll surely prosecute assault!

Careful Jen...I'd hate to see you go to jail for kicking in these guys teeth (after they kicked your door)! :shocked:

Miss B Haven · 10-23-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Birdnest:
I might be mistaken, but the other day I thought I saw a guy on the corner holding this sign...

"Need money for DSL line. Would like to annoy everyone on Ifish a little faster"

HA.... I need money too fix broken ribs and back surgery after falling on floor laughing reading this!

OB- you know what they say about getting in a _____ing contest with a skunk don't cha?

10-23-2003, 03:59 PM

Only in the twisted little minds of some. He was not accusing all of them of this, only one case that he knew of. Some people twist what they hear and read for their own devious agendas.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-23-2003, 04:11 PM

Keta and Straydog I can feel the love here boys. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

BTW Straydog, When I use to listen to Rush I thought about taking anti-depresents. The cure you say???? I turned him off and felt just fine afterwards. So I don't support him anymore. Lesson was learned 4 years ago. I have completely recovered. The only sickness I still have is Republican politics. :grin: I do not plan on seeking any help for that. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

Pilar · 10-23-2003, 07:18 PM

Hey uh ..... Brion, yeah that's it, Brion. I'll use bold and i'll SHOUT AT YOU. MAYBE YOU'LL GET IT THIS TIME. THERE IS ONE GUY ... I SAW HIM AGAIN THIS AFTERNOON. HE IS THE ONE THAT WAS SPOTTED IN CABO. ONE GUY, GET IT??? ONE GUY !!!!!!!!!! WHAT PART OF ONE GUY IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND. I SAY AGAIN FOR THE INCREDIBLY SLOOOOWWWWWWW AND THICK SKULLED... ONE GUY. ONE PROFESSIONAL PANHANDLING FRAUD GUY AT THE ONRAMP TO THE ROSS ISLAND BRIDGE EVERY DAY FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS.

Stop putting words in my mouth.
ONE FREAKING GUY PANHANDLES AND VACATIONS IN MEXICO.

ONE GUY !!!

[ 10-24-2003, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

10-23-2003, 07:19 PM

But what about his Lexus? :grin:

BrionLutz · 10-23-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Keta: But what about his Lexus?

Quote:

Jokester: Anywho, he got done with his "shift" on the corner with his sign, walked around to the back of the store he was standing out in front of, got in and drove off in his LEXUS!!

Must have driven the Lexus to Cabo.

My guess is that folks feel guilty about not giving money to them (I don't but I do give to charities that take care of them) so they come up with these rationalizations.

Brion

[ 10-23-2003, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Birdnest · 10-23-2003, 08:07 PM

Hey Brion...here's your sign.

Silver Hilton · 10-23-2003, 08:07 PM

I dunno about the guy in the lexus. I do know that I personally followed a guy up the hill from the bus mall in Portland years ago. Guy was a double amputee, probably vietnam. Was a regular down by one of the department stores for a long time. I happened to be going up the hill behind him one day, and watched him load into an older mercedes. Wasn't new, but wasn't beat, either. Now, he's got a perfect right to own the car. But I've got a perfect right to be skeptical about panhandlers, as well.

Woody · 10-23-2003, 09:24 PM

Brion

I have to congratulate you. You are quickly reaching your goal of alienating everyone here. <grin> Well done. Uhhh, that is what you're trying to do isn't it Lutz?

[ 10-23-2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Woody ]

BrionLutz · 10-23-2003, 09:56 PM

Woody,

Quote:

You are quickly reaching your goal of alienating everyone here.

Just the folks who get their kicks climbing the backs of people on the bottom of the barrel. They are probably alientated already which is why they do it.

I only see six of them here. Is that "everyone"?

Some folks get bothered by the homeless, panhandlers, etc. and pick on em. I get bothered by people who pick on em because they are easy targets. That's life in general.

Brion

10-23-2003, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Just the folks who get their kicks climbing the backs of people on the bottom of the barrel.

Kind of like you picking on the poor farmers and ranchers of the Upper Kalmath Basin?

Shame on you Mr. Lutz

Woody · 10-23-2003, 10:07 PM

Quote:

I only see six of them here. Is that "everyone"?

There's a lot more than six, trust me.

10-23-2003, 10:28 PM

Most are laughing so hard they can't post

crabbait · 10-23-2003, 10:56 PM

This one is not laughing. He is too busy editing the inflammatory posts by one Mr. Lutz.

He is kinda angry because he has better things to do than clean up messes left by someone who should know better.

Now he will go consort with his peers and see if maybe he can help this problem go away!

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
We should try and get out fishing again and revive our friendship. The browns in Lake of the Woods should be in their fall feeding frenzy by now.

Not a bad idea at all if I can find some time soon.......

I have a Blacktail tag burning a whole in my wallet, a school cleanup day on Nov. 1, a Fish Screening Task Force meeting in Salem on the 8th and a three day School Board Conference in Portland starting the 14th. (just got tired writing this!) Plus, there are many hungry Steelhead hanging out about two miles from home! (I am going to go try to tame them tomorrow....)

By the way, I never felt you were an "ex"friend, just a cranky one that sees the Klamath situation differently than I which is not suprising given our different ties to the issue.

I also admit to being neglegent in considering the pain factor in regards to your attitude. I too get cranky when I hurt.

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 11:03 PM

Great post Ocean Blue!!

I like it.........

pdxkevin · 10-23-2003, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
...The question is, do we spend the money to treat them as mentally ill people need to be treated or do we spend the money to warehouse them in prisons?

We need to be able to really know which are truly mentally ill and which are claiming to be mentally ill. I do not doubt that there is a percentage of the prison population who are actually mentally ill. You must admit there is another percentage claiming to be mentally ill to get a lighter sentence if any.
________________________________________________

I still support efforts like those of the Portland Aliance's Real Change - Not Spare Change Program.

http://www.portlandalliance.com/publ...e-change.shtml

"Support the Portland Business Alliance Real Change Not Spare Change program. Instead of giving change to a panhandler, give a voucher redeemable for food, showers, transit and clothing from Sisters of the Road Cafe, Transition Projects, New Avenues for Youth and Outside In.

Vouchers cost 25� each and are available in books of four at the locations listed below.

Give hope. Give a voucher.

SAYING "NO" TO PANHANDLERS

Why say "no" to panhandlers? By giving to someone in need, aren't we helping them?

According to homeless advocates, many people buy alcohol and drugs with money they panhandle. So giving money often perpetuates the circumstances that have led to homelessness.

However, it's important to know that not all panhandlers are homeless, nor are they all drug abusers or alcoholics.

So, what should you do?<ul type="square">[*]1. Politely say, "no." It's the simplest thing you can do.

2. Give money to agencies serving the homeless.

3. Offer them a "REAL CHANGE, NOT SPARE CHANGE" voucher. 25 cent vouchers are redeemable for food, public transportation, shelter and other necessities, and have no cash value.

4. If panhandlers are being aggressive or intimidating, call Downtown Clean & Safe at 503-224-PETE (7383).[/list]Vouchers cost 25� each and are available in books of four from<ul type="square">[*]Nordstrom concierge desk 701 SW Broadway, 503-224-6666[*]Pioneer Place information desk (lower level) 888 SW 5th Ave., 503-228-5800[*]Office of Neighborhood Involvement in City Hall 1221 SW 4th Ave., Room 110, 503-823-4519[*]Portland Business Alliance (downtown office 520 SW Yamhill, Suite 1000, 503-224-8684[/list]
Give hope. Give a voucher.

For more information, contact the Portland Business Alliance at 503-224-8684"

Thumper · 10-23-2003, 11:17 PM

Ocean Blue --- Your nice respectful handout will likely mainly get you a whole lot of dents kicked into your door. These are not pleasant folks.

OceanBlue · 10-23-2003, 11:48 PM

Thumper, my plan was to hand them the "gift" in an envelope. The contents won't be immediately apparent. But thanks for the warning. Hey... there's an idea! If the state won't prosecute panhandling, they'll surely prosecute assault!

Straydog · 10-23-2003, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pdxkevin:
We need to be able to really know which are truly mentally ill and which are claiming to be mentally ill. I do not doubt that there is a percentage of the prison population who are actually mentally ill. You must admit there is another percentage claiming to be mentally ill to get a lighter sentence if any.

I agree.
________________________________________________

Quote:

I still support efforts like those of the Portland Aliance's Real Change - Not Spare Change Program.

I strongly agree!! I like the sounds of this very much.

http://www.portlandalliance.com/publ...e-change.shtml

Jennie@ifish · 10-24-2003, 05:17 AM

There are better ways to give to the poor.

My girlfriend and I, when in high school, used to skip school right before the holidays one day, go to her house and bake cookies.

We both held part time jobs, and we would bag the cookies in little baggies, and add a couple bucks to each baggie of goodies.

Then, we'd drive down to Burnside, and walk around, handing them out, and say, "Merry Christmas!" I'll never forget one dude. We handed him the goods while crossing a street.

When he saw the money in the baggie, he said, "Hey! Wait! There is money in here!" We told him, yes, and Merry Christmas! He fell to his knees and kept repeating, (Still in the middle of a busy road!) "THEY ARE ANGELS!" :smile:

My ex husband and I used to go to Burgerville downtown, and buy a huge bag of cheeseburgers, just for fun, when we had nothing to do. Then, we'd drive down the poorer streets of downtown, and start throwing them out, at people in doorways, and on street corners.

Talk about fun! They just loved it!!!

I'd rather pick who I give things to. It's more fun that way.

I gotta go do this with my kids this year. It's really fun, and I'll never forget either, in all of my life.

Jen