Failure of management

Silver Hilton · 10-21-2003, 09:46 AM

I'm sure you've all heard about the college kid who planted some knives and play doh on airplanes recently. While listening to the news this morning, I heard the Travel Security Agency announce their response to his actions.

Now, let's review the bidding. This kid smuggled materials through some hole in security 6 times, and then wrote an e-mail to the TSA, telling them what he did. The e-mail sat at the TSA for 5 weeks, and then was forwarded to the FBI. Then a hullaballoo erupts, over someone who hurt nobody, and as near as I can tell, only reduced our risk. So he's arrested, and is being threatened with ten years in jail.

The TSA's reaction to all this? Well, if I were working there, I think I might want to analyse what hole he found, and try to fix it. I might try to learn from this to set up new ways to analyse security. But what is their actual reaction? They're going to review their e-mail handling procedures so they're not embarrassed again.

I think one commentator put it well yesterday. He noted that all our efforts are oriented towards finding Mohammed Atta again. Just like Napoleon's generals, we're planning to fight the last war, not the next one. I'll say one thing for Rumsfeld, I really appreciate the fact that he is leaning on the military to abandon that sort of thinking. I wish that type of thinking were better rewarded and more common.

Sorry for the ramble.

24 on/ 48 off · 10-21-2003, 09:51 AM

The fact remains: He committed a crime

He knew he could face sanctions by doing what he did.

--spud-- :smile:

OceanBlue · 10-21-2003, 09:55 AM

SH - you raise good points, but you're only seeing what's being presented to the public.

El-Kabong · 10-21-2003, 09:57 AM

He did what he did and now must accept the consequences.

He raises an awareness to the central problem that remains. That being that this administration has done nothing to actually make American safer. They have talked about how much safer we are, but the truth is that nothing has been done except to create a giant govt. agency and write PR pieces.

Time for a Change!

EK

[ 10-21-2003, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: El-Kabong ]

Birdnest · 10-21-2003, 10:06 AM

Hey El Kabong, any body flown a DC-10 into a downtown Portland building lately? Or for that matter anything that you could call a terrorist attack on US soil in the last two years?

Joe

DanS · 10-21-2003, 10:09 AM

You don't steal a car to show it can be done.

By the same token, the agencies in charge of airport security should DO something to close the loopholes. Instead they cover their posterior and stick their heads back in the sand.

And once again, the traveling public will remain vulnerable.

Quote:

Hey El Kabong, any body flown a DC-10 into a downtown Portland building lately? Or for that matter anything that you could call a terrorist attack on US soil in the last two years?

So?

What's your point? Hardly a cause and effect demonstrated there.

[ 10-21-2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]

El-Kabong · 10-21-2003, 10:12 AM

can some college kid put knives, bleach , and play-doh on an airplane? did any of the new security measures find these items? did our security measures find them after 5 weeks of sitting there?

so your lack of evidence is not very compelling in light of the fact this all of above HAPPENED.

EK

Cool Texan · 10-21-2003, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanBlue:
SH - you raise good points, but you're only seeing what's being presented to the public.

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

skein · 10-21-2003, 10:20 AM

He's just following in the footsteps of those Washington state game biologists who planted the lynx hair to "test the system." They've still got their jobs, so why should we pick on him?

I'm glad he showed us it could still be done, and I would donate money toward his defense fund. And, no, I don't condone illegal activities, but I do want to see that security is actually that - security. Looks like they got caught and didn't like it. Well, neither do I.

Skein

Silver Hilton · 10-21-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 24 on/ 48 off:
The fact remains: He committed a crime

Yeah, that's a lot more important than whether he intended to or actually hurt anybody, isn't it?

But that's not my point. Regardless of how we are treating the student, the management response of the TSA was to flame at the person who pointed out a hole in their system, press for prosecution to keep any other civilians from pointing out holes in the system, and to think about addressing the e-mail system that will be used by citizens who point out holes in the system. I haven't seen comment number one to the effect of "gee, let's take a look at how this happened, and fix it if possible."

More basic, however, is the deep logical flaw associated with the current TSA strategy, which is to prevent all possible weapons from getting on planes. Our experiences with other smuggling should indicate that this is an endeavor doomed to fail. I think we should be asking the question, "how can we prevent a repeat of 9/11, even if a hi******* occurs again." That answer probably lies with either putting sky marshals on planes, or allowing passengers to have some parity of arms. I'd feel better if I and every other passenger were allowed to have our pocket knife back.

OceanBlue, you're right, we can only form opinions based on what we know. If the government thinks the opinion is illfounded, they are welcome to share more information. "Trust us" is not an option for me.

[ 10-21-2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Silver Hilton ]

1pump · 10-21-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Hey El Kabong, any body flown a DC-10 into a downtown Portland building lately? Or for that matter anything that you could call a terrorist attack on US soil in the last two years?

Hey, Birdnest, what about the 225 years before 9/11/01? Sure, there was the previous attempt on the WTC and Oklahoma City, but that makes an average of one attack every 75 years.
There hasn't been a global nuclear war in the last few years, either, but that doesn't mean that SDI or SALTII was a success.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-21-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
It's my understanding that this kid sent the email prior to embarrassing the Feds. He will be punished severely for this embarrassment.

He should be offered a job, not jail time.

Ya think? :smile:

[ 10-21-2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

Silver Hilton · 10-21-2003, 02:42 PM

The article I just read in the newspaper claims that he sent e-mail to the TSA giving time, date, types of materials, where he left them, and his name, e-mail address, and phone number. He may be foolish, but he's got guts.

Degner · 10-21-2003, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1pump:
.
There hasn't been a global nuclear war in the last few years, either, but that doesn't mean that SDI or SALTII was a success. [/QB]

I'd say they were.

I Fred · 10-21-2003, 02:56 PM

Keta,very succinct!

BrionLutz · 10-21-2003, 03:04 PM

Silver Hilton,

The entire "airport security" thing is pretty much a joke. Another billion dollar boondoggle...hmm...was Halliburton the no bid winner of this "contract" also?

Prevent 911...beef up cockpit doors, lock'em for the flight...no mo 911.

That's the key.

The creepers might be able to blow up a plane, that's real hard to prevent, but as long as they can't use them as guided missiles, that fixes the main security issue.

Running all the bags through the bomb detector is cool but that's still a couple years off, mainly because so much money is being wasted on the front end.

Tighten up the airport operations security would be good too, would you like the chicken, beef or C4 for lunch? That too is delayed while we take off our shoes and shimmy shake.

Brion

jocose · 10-21-2003, 09:11 PM

i am going to drive...

10-21-2003, 11:15 PM

It's my understanding that this kid sent the email prior to embarrassing the Feds. He will be punished severely for this embarrassment.

He should be offered a job, not jail time.

pdxkevin · 10-21-2003, 11:41 PM

Could anyone send an email to a bank stating you are going to test their security, then rob the bank without fear of punishment? If this is a legal "get out of jail free card", what should prevent anyone from using it to comit any crime so long as they admitt their intent prior to the act?

My favorite part is that the airlines and airports are banning him. I hope it is for life.

Old Coot · 10-21-2003, 11:45 PM

Keta:

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Digifish · 10-22-2003, 09:36 AM

Here are the facts.

FBI Affidavit

Our airline security system is a joke, oh, and by the way, shoot that messenger that just came in.

El-Kabong · 10-22-2003, 10:41 AM

These are the geniuses who are here to protect us.

Thankfully any terrorist will follow this college kids example and turn themselves in. Then our crack TSA under the devine leadership of the Dept of Homeland Security will be on them so fast and apprehend them.

God Bless G. Bush for his genius to create the largest govt. agency EVER, to protect us, everyonw knows that a govt agency has to be bigger to work better. His leadership is clear ignore the problem until it is exposed to the public. For example it took the White House months to address the outing of the CIA operative. Takes TSA/FBI weeks to address security breach and federal law violation.

Time for A Change.

EK