Life in General:

Jennie@ifish · 10-18-2003, 05:22 AM

There are many things we, as a group, are not going to agree on.

Sadly, some threads degenerate to public name calling, and personal battles.

It is my feeling that we should shut some of these threads down, after your main points are made.

There is no reason to pick on someone, just because they feel differently than you do. Most likely, we are not going to change anyone's mind, especially when things degenerate and you address someone's opinions with total disrespect, or a "holier than thou" attitude.

Would you be more likely to change your mind on an idea, when confronted with someone elses, that says,

"I understand how you feel, but here is my opinion..."

OR

"You total jerk! Your opinions are stupid and mine are right, so listen up, idiot!"

????

Is your point to diminish the other person, or to enlighten them? I often wonder!

Anyway, because of this problem, I think that we should give threads warnings, when they begin to degenerate... A six hour window of opportunity to wrap up your feelings, before we close the thread.

There are some threads on this board currently, that are going no where but down. Nothing good is coming of them, in my opinion... it's just a clashing of ideas.

It is my goal, in this community, to bring people TOGETHER, instead of divide them. We are here because we all love fishing.

If that's not your agenda, then you become a liability to ifish, rather than an asset.

We grow tired of monitoring off topic arguments.

What do you think?

Jen

Born to Fish · 10-18-2003, 06:18 AM

Jen, I agree with what you're saying and support the need to determine when to shut these down.

I personally am not interested in getting involved in many of these seemingly endless threads, particularly where people are obviously in it for the debate. That's not what I signed up for Ifish for. I'm more interested in the reports, tips, pics, etc. - I want to learn more about the fisheries and whats going on, and to meet new people and establish friendships with folks who share my interest in fishing.

I've read where many folks have asked to keep certain threads going because they were into the debate and felt that there were good informative exchanges going on. While I wouldn't want to see that opportunity be taken away from those who enjoy that activity, but I think that it is up to the Mod's to take positive action to warn, and if necessary shut down threads when they get out of hand [and this has been done to a degree]. Also, these long threads create a workload for the Mod's, in monitoring time, that can be a detriment to their services on other threads. As such I believe that it is appropriate for the Mod's to occassionally say....enough-is-enough, we're going in circles here, wrap it up with your final thoughts and we'll shut it down in ???? more posts/hours/minutes, or whatever [I've also seen that done, but maybe it needs to be done more often]. After all, it isn't like some of these most active, vocal, opinionated folks can't continue the debates and exchanges on email, if they are so inspired. Just my opinion - for what its worth.

Dean

ampersat · 10-18-2003, 06:18 AM

i wholeheartedly agree.

Birdnest · 10-18-2003, 06:27 AM

Miss Jennie,

I do agree that some threads can go beyond their usefulness. I just avoid those post. It is like a pool that is historically popular with snaggers...I'd rather have a bunch of them in one spot, than a few of them spread all over the place.

Joe

[ 10-18-2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Birdnest ]

Fshklr · 10-18-2003, 06:29 AM

I have to agree also.I rarely participate so I won't get slammed by a professional DEBATER. IFISH has many. Time and time again in LIG, you see this happening. Usually between seasons and hot bites. Little is achieved from the battles and some do end up getting hurt. Whats the point in that?
Not looking for flame responses, Just my humble .02$

Thumper · 10-18-2003, 06:42 AM

I love LIG mainly because I have learned so much. There are some really smart folks here. Some others, of course, have really nice moustaches, but I love them too. :tongue:

freespool · 10-18-2003, 06:50 AM

Jennie,you have a very valid point about the labeling and name calling. This is pointless and in very bad taste. There are times I feel people don't respect others points of view. A lot of the discourse stems from the age differential,old dogs vs young dogs. Perhaps some type of monitoring is in order,when things seem to get bogged down.

happybrew · 10-18-2003, 07:01 AM

I feel this way about snagging threads. They go on forever, don't have much to do with my fishing, lots of namecalling and hard feelings, fingerpointing, etc. The corkie fishermen get picked on, the bobber and bait crowd feel self-righteous.

happybrew

C-lice · 10-18-2003, 07:09 AM

How about limiting the number of posts any one member can make on any one topic (say, 5 or 6?). Often it seems things don't get ugly until people stray too far from the point of the original post.

lost_sailor · 10-18-2003, 08:26 AM

Sounds like a good plan. More work for the mods, though - that's not that cool. Maybe we just have a little more "hey this thread has disintegrated, let's give it up!" without such comments being shot down ?

OK, I'm dreaming.

jocose · 10-18-2003, 09:39 AM

Ill play nice mama... i promise jocose

Silver One · 10-18-2003, 09:52 AM

Jennie,

Thankyou for addressing this subject.

Recently, I started a thread which I admit had no socially redeeming value. At the time it seemed like the "Fair" thing to do. Fair as we all know, or should know, is in the eyes of the beholder. Anyway, it was jerked by the Mods in short order. At the time, I admit, those long contentious threads were raising my blood pressure exponentially. Haven't we all heard the longer versions of what gets reconstituted here in the daily news/opinion factories. I have.

Speaking for myself, its not the info thats the problem its the relentless, and I infacize(sp.) RELENTLESS, desire by some to ridicule/badger/degrade(my opion)others into a web fight. I don't think it is an accident that some of these threads mysteriously live for days and days. What happened in my case is I had just had it up to here with the badgering and sought to do a little badgering myself. It was wrong and the Mods did the right thing. That said, even though many of these participants adhere to the letter of the rules they clearly (my opion) break the spirit of the rules. I can't even count the number of times that good, decent, non political threads have been drug "kicking and screaming" into the political arena. There are some who patrol these serene waters looking, like sharks, for the unsuspecting innocent's (Note: a thread about Coho several months ago). When this happens everyone loses and the discourse becomes volatile.

I for one apologize for contributing to this negative banter. I have some great friends on the opposite end of the political spectrum and we get along by respecting each others opinions. Thanks again Jennie for your words of wisdom!

Mike

10-18-2003, 10:09 AM

I agree with Jennie. No minds have ever been changed and there is a tendency for these threads to deteriorate into senseless name calling and personal attacks.
Repeated warnings by the mods don't seem to make much difference.

10-18-2003, 10:27 AM

Send the internet pro-argue'er's and internet pro-clicker fisher's to MSN chatroom's or something.

Thumper · 10-18-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stew:
I agree with Jennie. No minds have ever been changed and there is a tendency for these threads to deteriorate into senseless name calling and personal attacks.

I disagree. My mind has been changed on a number of topics (hatcheries, timber, habitat restoration, a number of political and social issues, etc.) from reading sometimes contentious threads. I love this forum and appreciate the spirited debate that goes on here.

happybrew · 10-18-2003, 10:49 AM

Me too Thumper. I have agree a lot more with the environmentalist position than I did before.

happybrew

AllThumz · 10-18-2003, 10:54 AM

It's not news that people feel much braver when they're sitting in front of a computer screen. When a dialogue degrades into a flame war, I would personally like to see the entire thread shot off into the cyber trash.

John

10-18-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ******:
Stew:

Answer

:depressed: Won't work

10-18-2003, 01:14 PM

No "real player" on your machine huh Stew? Shucks. It's a free download Shane.
Go Here

10-18-2003, 02:00 PM

Got it Rick......funny

Silver Hilton · 10-18-2003, 02:42 PM

Even as much as I enjoy them, I think the politics and religion topics cause strife. It's a rare person who can stay civil and friendly in these discussions. It's too easy to let one's contempt for the opposition's viewpoint spill into the remarks one makes to a specific person.

I've decided to avoid most of the political topics from now on.

10-18-2003, 03:42 PM

Bookmark Stew

happybrew · 10-18-2003, 04:41 PM

You're joking, right SH???? :shocked: I generally don't think this is a good place to discuss religion, but politics is another matter. I think politics are unavoidable. Think of all the fishing related issues that butt up against politics. And note, then, that when it's something people don't like, the name of a politician, usually Republican, gets attached to it. If we don't want discussion of politics, then the words "Democrat", "Republican", "conservative", and "liberal", as well as the names of prominent politicians ought to be added to the naughty word filter. Even the abortion thing first reared its head a few years ago when someone blamed poor fishing on overpopulation, advocated mandatory limits on family size, and it all went downhill from there. I vowed to avoid political discussion sometime after that, but with the advent of "Life in General", and everyone else, including those who expressed dismay at my expressing political beliefs as inappropriate for a fishing forum, taking part, I decided I didn't need to be under that self-imposed restriction any more. If we all need that restriction, so be it. So I think all political words should be added to the naughty word filter if we no longer want political discussion.

happybrew

10-18-2003, 04:55 PM

I agree with SH. I've seen political discussion on this board turn ugly and that's bound to affect the way you feel about a person that you might have liked otherwise.
It wouldn't bother me at all to see an end to these rancorous type of threads altogether.
Maybe Jennie should add names like Bush,Clinton,Michael Moore,Rush Limbaugh etc. to the banned words list

I don't mind political discussion but they seem to always turn into name calling flame wars.
Some might thrive on this but it's demoralizing to the mood of the LIG board in the long run.
Just my opinion

crabbait · 10-18-2003, 05:37 PM

Before we get to far afield I will bring us back on point: We are not talking about limiting or discouraging debate/discussion. I think we all agree that the sharing of differing opinions is interesting and educational, especially when posters have references/links/facts to back up their opinions.

The problem arises when people start ranting, i.e., restating their already expressed opinion, usually without references, using stronger and stronger adjectives to say the same thing over and over again. Another example would be when two or three people start to dominate a thread arguing over some miniscule point, generally off the main topic. I could provide specific examples but I think you know what I am talking about.

Discuss, debate, argue even, but leave some room for the other guy. Attack the argument, not the individual. If you find that every third or forth post is yours, back off a bit and allow someone else to get an opinion in edgewise (you might be surprised, they may agree with you).

Above all, treat each other with respect.

Jennie@ifish · 10-18-2003, 06:47 PM

Crabbait, your ideas are so idiotic it makes me ill!

I read in the Reeders Digest that
"Ninety percent of all moderators that moderate internet bulletin boards are only there for the money, and to start fights between people."

How can you, with your piddly little mind, say something like that? HUH?

I got facts, buddy!

LOL....

Jennie@ifish · 10-18-2003, 06:49 PM

I mean REALLY!!!!!!

Jennie@ifish · 10-18-2003, 06:50 PM

OK. Three is a rant, right?
I DID IT! I ranted!

Jen

10-18-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ******:
Bookmark Stew

Good website :smile: BTW when did you record that?

Freakwater · 10-18-2003, 09:24 PM

I think the "Late term abortion" thread is a great example. Political/religious discussion allowed. Started with civil opinions, degenerated into name calling, was given time to redeem itself, then was closed with warning and time to respond before it was shut down. Let the three or four people that are calling each other names take offence. I don't get how this is skin off anyone elses back. Unless this is a complete hassle to the mods, I think this was a great way to handle a thread gone wrong.

Freak

crabbait · 10-18-2003, 09:44 PM

Ok, Miss Martin, you asked for it.......if my dog looked as silly as your dog I would shave his behind, put a ribbon in his hair, and swear he was a poodle! The only birds he chases are hummingbirds and finches! He thinks pheasant feathers are for tieing flies!

That dog is so stupid, if he found a three week old roadkill he would not know enough to roll in it!

(Strongly worded inflammatory post to follow!)

crabbait · 10-18-2003, 09:51 PM

:grin:

Silver Hilton · 10-18-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by happybrew:
You're joking, right SH????

Nope.

[ 10-18-2003, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Silver Hilton ]

10-18-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ******:
Send the internet pro-argue'er's and internet pro-clicker fisher's to MSN chatroom's or something.

What is a clicker fisher?

Tell you what Thumper, just agree that I'm right and we'll call it good :grin:

Thumper · 10-18-2003, 11:24 PM

Stew --- You are right! :grin:

wootersen · 10-18-2003, 11:35 PM

Although I'm not in favor of name calling, rudeness, and general bashing, I don't see anything wrong with a spirited debate, As long as it remains civil.

It's always good to hear opposing veiwpoints. I just try and read them with an open mind, and have changed my mind on several issues. I try and keep myself from getting caught up in the heated threads, but if I feel like I have a different perspective or different information to add, I won't hesitate to post.

Please don't end the debates. There's a lot of good info in them, you just have to read between the lines sometimes.

10-18-2003, 11:43 PM

Stew:

Answer

Jennie@ifish · 10-19-2003, 05:40 AM

You have a point there, Crabbait!
I will be looking forward to your posts of guidance on my long haired beloved mutt.
(Oh.... Thumper is gonna love this one!

)
:smile:
Jen

Thumper · 10-19-2003, 08:23 AM

Beautiful dog. Fine features. Loving and gentle. A deer hunter actually.

Marvelous silky hair.

No brains.

Thank you Crabbait!!!

[ 10-19-2003, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

Jennie@ifish · 10-19-2003, 12:50 PM

Actually, and I have to say this, as a dog owner, for all of my life.
He is beautiful! But, he is also the easiest dog that I have ever trained in my life. He is really very bright, and to boot, wants to please. Spends every waking moment waiting for my next command.

...and Today! Today I taught him what chanterelle mushrooms smell like, and told him to Mark! HE DID!
He found me a whole patch of them!!!!

I honestly think he's going to come in handy here!

He is, by far, the smartest dog I've owned, with the greatest sense of trying to please me.

He has been an honor to own.

You guys are just jealous. :smile:

I love him so much!

Jennie and the truffle sniffing mutt.

Deepslayer · 10-19-2003, 01:07 PM

I agree 100% and I think you should start with that pointless argument between Crabbait and Jennie!!!!! What a pai9r of ranters!!! :shocked: :grin: :shocked:
,Ed

Thumper · 10-19-2003, 06:12 PM

At least he doesn't drool.

Flatfish · 10-20-2003, 07:56 PM

"So stupid he wont roll in 3 week old roadkill. "

Now that is funny... Unless it is Jake doing the rolling.

Mark and the ROFL dog.