Dealer invoice?

glowball · 10-11-2003, 05:56 PM

I remember getting a dealer invoice off of the internet a couple years ago that showed exactly what a dealer pays for a rig. I can't seem to find any site that does that. They all have a dealer invoice but it is not the dealer cost. Anyone have that site bookmarked?

Thanks glow

Swamp Puppy · 10-11-2003, 06:26 PM

there are a few sites that should be able to help you out. one of the most common is edmunds.com

Silver Hilton · 10-11-2003, 07:57 PM

You know about the additional holdback, right? That invoice isn't what the dealer really pays? It's usually 1 to 2% of the cost of the vehicle.

For some brands, there are end of month bonuses that factor into things, too. Always a good idea to buy on the last day of a month. Back when I was a systems guy, we built a system for one of the major japanese brands' dealership network. Due to the bonus system, at the end of the month, it was sometimes worth it to the dealer to give a car away, because it triggered the payment of a huge additional bonus.

Too many tricks in this trade...

1pump · 10-11-2003, 10:06 PM

SH is absolutely right. "Invoice" means nothing. Neither does "rebate". It's just hyperbole to make you think you're getting a deal.
Unless your last name is Thomason or Tonkin you will never find out how much a new rig costs the dealer. There way too many variables that factor in to the final cost. A big dealership might have 200 people working there, and only about 5 of those really have any idea.

Swamp Puppy · 10-14-2003, 04:14 PM

i used to be a general sales manager for a chevrolet store for a few years. so, let me clear a few things up for some of you. at least from a Chevy standpoint. i can't speak for any other automakers.

first, the dealer does in fact pay the "invoice" ammount for each vehicle. it is also referred to as line 310. this cost represents a number of different things including:

the base cost of the vehicle
+ all options
+ dealer advertising fee (what GM charges the dealer as his part for regional advertising done by GM)
+ holdback (which does get returned to the dealer..but we'll cover that in a bit)
+ destination fee (which is the same as the retail cost so there is no profit value in that)

now, let's talk about costs that aren't on the invoice. first, the dealer is paying flooring on that vehicle as it sits on his lot. usually at 1 to 1.5 points over prime. this "cost" isn't reflected on the invoice, but he pays in nonetheless. also, in our case, we had the vehicles washed twice a week. this was an additional cost that you won't find on the invoice.

now, back to holdback. this item is usually paid back to dealers quarterly and is used to offset the above mentioned costs...or general costs associated with running the dealership. while some dealers will negotiate below invoice and go into the holdback ammount, this is usually only done on slow selling items or dealer demos. if you are looking at a hot item you can take the word "holdback" and remove it from your vocabulary.

from time to time dealers will receive "dealer cash" or assistance from GM to help them sell slow moving products. this usually ranges from $500.00 to $2,000.00, but remember, this is only on slow moving products. this information is also available to the public. some consumer websites will probably have this info.

i can't count how many times people have told me, "that's not the REAL invoice..you are getting money from someplace else for selling this car so of course you can sell it to me for 6,000 dollars below what this number is."

folks, that just isn't true. there is no magical money fairy that comes along and gives dealers money at the end of the month. the factory doesn't come along and say, "ohhh..you sold these cars for so low we'll give you some money to help out."

check out edmunds.com. they have a fairly accurate site for finding out the dealer's invoice.

[ 10-14-2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Mossberg_3.5 ]

willametteriveroutlaw · 10-14-2003, 04:35 PM

When you look at invoice on toyotas, there is also an advertising charge (1-2%) that the dealer has to pay to his or her particular dealers association. I dabble in the car business still from time to time arranging deals for friends, I will never ever even talk to a salesman on the lot. Theres a better way to buy a car.

Mr.Kitch'nPass · 10-14-2003, 04:52 PM

mossberg-3.5 sounds like you know your stuff. You must have been one of the five guys they told the secrets to

Remember folks a good deal is more than buying at invoice ask anyone who recieved bad service after the sale.

Swamp Puppy · 10-14-2003, 05:59 PM

you are exactly right Kitch'n Pass. i worked for a family owned Chevy store that has been in business for 60+ years. i have also worked for a large dealership chain (AutoNationUSA). i loved working at the smaller store. i wasn't the cheapest in town..you could go down the street to one of the big guys and save yourself a couple of hundred bucks...but i still remember the names of the first people i ever sold a car to. service after the sell is the most valuable thing you can get. if you think that buying a car the cheapest means you got the best "deal". you are probably mistaken. mom and pop motors down the road will almost always cost a bit more....but they usually value each and every customer and treat you like you want to be treated.

willametteriveroutlaw - that cost is also shown on the chevy invoice. it is 1.5% for chevys..not sure for toyotas. as i stated in my earlier post, that is a cost that the factory passes along to the dealer as their part in paying for the regional ads you see on TV. in some cases dealers can receive that money (or a small portion of it) back from the factory if they have spent a certain ammount for their own advertising. ie: Newspaper, TV, or Radio. however, this isn't "profit"..it is to help offset the costs of advertising for the particular dealer's region.

Swamp Puppy · 10-14-2003, 06:04 PM

aaack...i forgot to mention model year closeout allowances.

it years past, chevrolet used to allot a certain ammount (usually 5%) of money per vehicle to help dealers clear out last years inventory. i believe it was in 1999 that General Motors stopped allowing that to dealers. opting instead for a flat fee. GM dealers got hosed big time in that one and were unable to pass as big of savings along to the customer. unless something has changed since 2001 when i left the business, GM probably still opts for bigger rebates and lower interest rates as a closeout incentive instead of extra closeout allowances to lower the actual selling price.