About the E-Mail Notice

O'City Fisherman · 08-29-2003, 04:10 PM

Whoever cares,
I just do not understand why everyone seems to be upset about the (SPAM) email issue??? From my view the only thing I see is a positive email. It was to inform us that there is a new site available for people to visit and get more fishing information.

I thought this is why Ifish was born. To help each other get information about the sport that we LOVE so much.. Is it such a hideous thing that another site opened up to help the people in getting other information???

Are you afraid of not having the people to support this site? This is why you have sponsorship and other community givings to support the site.

Sorry if this touches people in the wrong way, but I just dont see why people have to be so PC and uptight about things now days.

[ 08-29-2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: O'City Fisherman ]

Chacal · 08-29-2003, 05:15 PM

I totally agree with OC Fisherman.

I received the "spam" and thought it was "spam" and did what I do with all of that, I deleted it and wrote an email asking to stop that I just copy and paste.

The person who wrote me apologized and that was that.

I was the one to put my e-mail address out there, so it's my own fault.

So now, using the logic that is going around this board, if I e-mail someone I would like to fish with, am I spamming them?

I think it's a tad ridiculous to put a ALL MEMBERS READ THIS post in the community page, at first I thought there was a virus or something....

I have no problem with the admins or owners of this site, this is just one time I am trying to figure out exactly what the problem is and why this has turned into a "drama."

I just want to get and share fishing information, whether that be here or some other board or even Henry Miller in the Statesman Journal.

Just my .02, and that is probably about what it's worth too.

Have a great weekend all!

Chacal

HammondSeaRanger · 08-29-2003, 05:18 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] o'city for saying what alot of us are thinking !

Pete · 08-29-2003, 05:20 PM

Yes, we all came here to share information about a sport we care about. The problem is an ethical one. People provide their e-mail addresses so others can respond to specific issues, not so some third party can send unsolicited promotions for competing web sites. Would anyone walk into McDonalds and shout that there are great burgers available at Burger King? I sincerely doubt it. Yet, the owners of the major fishing bulletin boards do have harmonious relations. Piscatorial Pursuits and Steelhead.net are linked off the front page of Ifish. It's a harmonious relation that doesn't involve actively syphoning membership from the other boards.

Spamming, or "unsolicited commercial e-mail" is such a problem that it's likely Congress will ban it. Washington state has already made it a crime to send spam from Washington, or to a Washington resident. The Oregon legislature has deliberated on several anti-spam bills, but has not yet enacted one. It's likely only a matter of time before an Oregon anti-spam law is enacted.

The content is not relevant when we speak of spam. The issue is about consent or the lack of it from the recipient and the lack of respect and/or concern for the recipient by the sender.

Yet, when the e-mails are distributed by someone banned from the major fishing web sites for his inability to adhere to published rules, who subsequently has vowed revenge and has repeatedly attacked all three major boards overtly and covertly, one has to question the motive. This wasn't just an innocent information note to a friend. Why did this individual feel the need to invite new members to join the only board that still permits him to post? When you have an answer to that question you will have some insight into why this "spamming" is more than unethical.

Chacal · 08-29-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete:
This wasn't just an innocent information note to a friend. Why did this individual feel the need to invite new members to join the only board that still permits him to post? When you have an answer to that question you will have some insight into why this "spamming" is more than unethical.

Sounds to me like you are reading waaay too much into it.

Hey, whatever, personally I just think it is a bit overblown.

Chacal

Jennie@ifish · 08-29-2003, 05:56 PM

I don't know that anyone is upset about it. Where is anyone upset?
It's ifish' responsibility, or any responsible web master, to encourage safe e mail practice, and to protect the privacy of it's members.
I have been asked, several times to sell the ifish e mail list to fishing related businesses for marketing purposes, and have declined. I do that because I respect the privacy of the individual members... and because I despise spam!
To e mail a few friends is fine, to harvest "over 200 e mails" is totally, and unbelievably unethical.
I welcome the new board. It's always good to have a bulletin board that has no rules around, because there are lots of different kinds of people, wanting different things. Now, I have a good place to suggest for those few.

Different strokes for different folks!

I do not, however welcome the theft of e mail addresses for any purpose. It's just plain wrong.

I highly encourage the use of surfing around to find the bulletin boards on the internet that suit your needs and your geographical locations.

Wherever you may land, may the information there help you conk the big ones! :smile:

Jen

Edit: One more thing.. I forget who said it, but someone said they "do what they always do" delete and write back to get you off the list.

That's not good! If you do that to most companies, that's like saying, "Oh! We have a live one!" and then they add you to more lists, and sell your name.

Best thing to do with spam: Delete and be done with it! :smile:

[ 08-29-2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

Straydog · 08-29-2003, 05:59 PM

In dealing with some of my own shortcomings on Ifish in the past, it has become apparent to me that those of us merely posting on Ifish have no clue concerning the amount of communication and interaction that takes place behind the scenes.

My hip shot guess is that Pete is reading little or nothing into this, but rather is being professional and not sharing all he knows.

08-29-2003, 06:35 PM

To my way of thinking spam is unwanted and unsolicited and not welcome no matter who it's from! Is Pete or Jennie reading too much into it? No not at all! The intention of offering members the option of having their emails available on their profiles was not so those members could be spammed, it's that simple!

wootersen · 08-30-2003, 01:20 AM

I just wonder if people would be singing a different tune if the content of the spam were different. I did not personally recieve the spam so I'm only picking up on context clues, but it seems to me that if I got spammed about a bulletin board fishing web site, I think that would've been the nicest spam I've ever got.

Obviously, those of us who are member of this site are going to be interested in a fishing website, but would you be saying the same thing if it was a car dealership or another visa offer ? :whazzup:

Smj · 08-30-2003, 04:44 AM

Jennie, I think the people that were upset about "The e-mail" were posting on a topic called "Got spamed again" or such. That topic dissapeared, wich is an indication to me and probably others that it's not a topic to discuss any more, no?

Smj

Jennie@ifish · 08-30-2003, 04:50 AM

G morning, SMJ...
It's OK to talk about it, unless banned members get mentioned. That's against the user policy.
I'm not going to be talking much, because I already posted my opinion.

Unless the thread starts getting ugly, it's no big.

Thx,
Jen

Conspiracy Theory · 08-30-2003, 09:44 AM

Jennie, I want to thank you for not selling the addresses. I get enough junk e-mail that a lot of times I won't put in personal info on web sites becuase of the possiblilty of junk mail.

Also great point on the "just delete it and reply to take me off the list". You are correct, a lot of spam e-mail is sent to addresses generated by an algorythm that simply creates addresses. When you reply it comfirms it is a good address. Some of these places when they get a list of confirmed addresses then sell these lists.

Again thanks for respecting your memebers privacy.
Great job.

Jennie@ifish · 08-30-2003, 09:47 AM

I have an idea! [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

We could all get rich! Let's sell our ifish list and split the proceeds between us all! :smile:

KIDDING!!!!

Jen

AuntyM · 08-30-2003, 01:58 PM

Just an FYI Jennie. The board in question has plenty of rules, it's just no one knows what they are. I have been banned as have many other people for simply speaking our minds.

Kinda funny actually.

happybrew · 08-30-2003, 04:27 PM

A somewhat different perspective: I finally received the "spam" everyone is talking about today, so I got a chance to see what everyone was talking about. To tell the truth, I was a bit miffed at not receiving it. I felt a little left out. :depressed: But since I've been cordialy invited to join, I no longer feel left out. On the other hand, given my history with the individual, perhaps it is merely an ambush? Perhaps not. In any case, I thought the e-mail was polite and to the point. I didn't feel offended by it at all. When we list our e-mail addresses, we can't really complain if someone uses them. That's what they're there for. There is a private message function on this board, which will notify the member by e-mail that there is a private message. So if we list our e-mail, we shouldn't be surprised if someone uses it.

I've suspected that some of the spam for things like "male medications" and "Bambi and her sorority friends are waiting for you" are a result of this site. When I've been involved in controversial discussions here, I've noticed that all of the sudden I get a heck of a lot of that sort of spam afterwards. Who knows. Could be coincidence. But I find that offensive. But then, I list my e-mail address for everyone to see if they want to. I think that spam for things that have nothing to do with fishing is unethical. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it's unethical to invite others to join a similar forum. They're not selling anything, I don't think. They're simply looking for people with similar interests. I'm not sure if it's considered a "competitor". We certainly wouldn't consider Northwest Medical Teams and Mercy Corps to be competitors, although they certainly vie for the same sort of donors and do the same sort of work.

On the other hand, McDonalds and Burger King are certainly competitors. Ifish lies somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I'm not sure where. Perhaps unethical is the wrong word. Perhaps impolite is a better word. As Ifish does not sell or give away lists of e-mail addresses, it is clear that Ifish does not want others to access utilize members' addresses for anything other than Ifish related business. So is it unethical? It is if you consider the other sites competitors. It might not be if you don't consider the other sites competitors. And that would be a function of how the folks in charge of Ifish feel about it.

happybrew

Chacal · 08-30-2003, 07:37 PM

Just to clarify,

After working in the web industry I know that you shouldn't respond to spam.

But when you get unwanted e-mail from someone YOU KNOW I usually write back and say...

"Hey, while I am sure others like the (joke, chain letter, donation request, new website, new business, etc.) I am not interested. Please do not e-mail me these types of things again.

Thanks!"

Yes, you shouldn't reply to unsolicited and unknown e-mail in your box. Very good.

As far as it being "unethical" to e-mail people who have their e-mails open to the public....whatever.

Chacal

[ 08-30-2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Chacal ]

fish_on · 08-30-2003, 08:26 PM

got the spam, joined the board seems like a ok place I was glad to receive the info.

[ 08-30-2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: fish_on ]

Chris Nordling · 08-30-2003, 08:43 PM

I do not understand why people enjoy spam so much

, it's similar to junk mail to me, I want neither.

Some on this thread were not around Ifish for this individuals antics on this and other fishing boards. I highly suspect it is not by chance that someone has been banned from three Northwest internet fishing communities, and carries a reputation as a troublemaker.

The folks that make this board work ,deal with way more than us common folk will ever understand or get to see from behind the scenes.

I don't think the admins are worried about losing members to other boards. My guess is that the reputation of Ifish, and maintaining it's members integrity would be the highest priority and concern.

My .02 on SPAM

Chris

[ 08-30-2003, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: FWF1 ]

Jennie@ifish · 08-30-2003, 11:04 PM

I think the "do not respond" is classic advise in these situations. You don't want to respond to spam, because then they know they have a live one.

I don't think it was anything personal, it's just what the experts advise as to how to handle spam.
If I responded to all of the spam I get, I think it would quadruple in a day! :smile:

Thanks, though.
PS... Did you mean to put an extra "I" in pontification? :smile: :smile:
Jen

[ 08-30-2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

RvW · 08-31-2003, 05:58 AM

According to Willerower, spam catches carp.

Email addys are no more private than your home address or your phone number. Ive yet to see a sign on a mail box that says "place only the mail I want to read inside" or a foot-note on a phone number saying "dont call me if I dont want to talk to you"
If you dont want spam, dont publish your email address plain and simple. Or, you can let IFish screen spam for content and character of the sender.

AuntyM · 08-31-2003, 06:56 AM

RVW,

Quote:

"dont call me if I dont want to talk to you"

That is exactly why the federal Do not call Registry was created. I don't want phone spam and I guess millions of other US citizens don't either. The phone company also has given us the ability to block specific phone numbers.

Email spam is far worse than snail mail, as children don't usually receive snail mail with trash in it, and if they did, someone would be going to jail.

If you welcome email spam, that's your choice. Just don't expect the rest of the world to embrace it.

[ 08-31-2003, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: AuntyM ]

RvW · 08-31-2003, 08:03 AM

I thought to mention the "do not call" registry, and the phone companys offer to block solicitor calls, but these things are decisions made by the person who has the number.
Unfortunately, at this point email addys are not optionally proctected in the same manner and the only option you have to avoid spam is to never post your address in a place where it can be considered public information.

I wont try to sell the idea that spam can be a good thing for everyone, I hate spam, but Ive accepted the fact that if I place my email addy here, or anywhere it can be read by who ever wants to read it...I'm going to get "spam" if I want it or not. As far as snail mail and kids being exposed to "garbage" I think the federal government has a small role in what you may or may not recieve in your snailmailbox.
Electronicly its a different story. If a child recieves inappropriate meterial in thier email box, its the PARENTS fault for not advising thier children that this can and most likely WILL happen if email addresses are shared in a public, or often private domain. (not saying its warrented, just that everyone who uses the web should know this by now)

My point is, if you share your email address, either here, or elsewhere, your the only person responsible for being "spammed" and its not IFish's responsibility to decide for me or anyone else what is "appropriate spam" and what isnt based on the content of the mail, and IFish personality conflicts with the person sending it.

(Incidently, I didnt get the email *that I know of* and I dont know or care who sent it)

Chacal · 08-31-2003, 10:23 AM

And to use the case of the "Do Not Call Registry" brings up a very valid point.

Everyone who got the message had their e-mails open to the public.

It would be different if the board had sold the addresses to spammers. Since these crafty people used the already public addresses, then don't complain. It's simple enough to hide your e-mail address.

The people who complained are like the people who enter contests with all of their personal information and then complain when they get junk mail.

Don't want spam? Hide your e-mail box.

Chacal

[ 08-31-2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Pete ]

willierower · 08-31-2003, 12:11 PM

I was going to stay out of this. But, sometime I cant keep my mouth shut or keep my fingers still.

Let it go people!!! Step back and take a long hard look at yourselves. You are letting one little e-mail get to you. Whats that tell you??? You all know what the delete feature is. You could have used it. But, NO you had to open it. Now your life is turned upside down :shocked: .

Ive gotten e-mails from people I dont really like. Did I make a huge deal about it? No. I read it if I felt like it, deleted if I didnt want to read. That was it. It was easy and painless and I didnt need to announce it publicly.

I even got an e-mail from a fellow member of ifish while I and a few other members were having a stupid trivail argument with him. I just read it for what it was worth and left it at that. ...

Im not trying to defend anyone here, So dont even think that.

Mad Mikey · 08-31-2003, 01:04 PM

>>> I have been banned as have many other people <<<

Aunty M, I thought it funny when I read this. For some reason or another I got blocked from that particular site and since then have recieved two e-mails to join it!!! :whazzup:

I had to edit this after talking to the site owner.
I did not believe I was spammed because at one time I was a registered member of the site in question. My e-mails came to me because I was registered on that site.
Although there is a lot of controversy surrounding this issue I must come clean and absolve the site owner of any wrong doing in my unique case.
I harbor no grudges against either i-fish or the site in question.
I get along with everybody or at least try to. I rarely get into the frays especially on LIG because I won't change anyones' mind and can't get mine changed either.
It turns out I had a password screw-up on the site which kept giving me the boot so I can't accuse anyone but myself or my lack of computer skills for my troubles.
Just had to clear the air......

[ 09-06-2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Mad Mikey ]

Chacal · 08-31-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Mikey:
>>> I have been banned as have many other people <<<

Aunty M, I thought it funny when I read this. For some reason or another I got blocked from that particular site and since then have recieved two e-mails to join it!!! :whazzup:

Thanks for the laugh...that was funny..

No biggie. I just think the whole "unethical" word was a bit too strong.

08-31-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FWF1:
I do not understand why people enjoy spam so much , it's similar to junk mail to me, I want neither.

Some on this thread were not around Ifish for this individuals antics on this and other fishing boards. I highly suspect it is not by chance that someone has been banned from three Northwest internet fishing communities, and carries a reputation as a troublemaker.

The folks that make this board work ,deal with way more than us common folk will ever understand or get to see from behind the scenes.

I don't think the admins are worried about losing members to other boards. My guess is that the reputation of Ifish, and maintaining it's members integrity would be the highest priority and concern.

My .02 on SPAM
Chris

Very well said Chris [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[ 08-31-2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Stew ]

AuntyM · 08-31-2003, 11:11 PM

RVW and Chacal,

So following your theories, I have a listed telephone number and that means I must want sales calls? I live in a small community and prefer people I know to be able to find my phone number in the book. That doesn't mean I want sales calls, or harrassment type calls. So I now have the ability to block unwanted callers and list on the registry.

If I want to keep my email addy available so DepoeBayDan or Keta or Thumper can easily email me, that's my business. That doesn't mean I want to be contacted by someone OUTSIDE this forum. Of course, since I am already banned from said board, I wouldn't have received such spam. :grin:

Rationalize it all you want. There IS a spam law in Washington, and it's there for a reason. Just because you CAN find someone's email, doesn't make it right to send a mass email to them all.

Jennie and Ifish have been accused of having too tough/double standards and not allowing freedom of speech. Yet when "he" started a new board, "he" wound up having more restrictive policies than what we have here. Sound hypocritical? It is.

Angler of Repose · 08-31-2003, 11:27 PM

In the famous words of Rodney King:
"Why can't we all just get along?" :grin:

RvW · 08-31-2003, 11:58 PM

AuntyM...with all due respect, if you dont take steps to avoid spam or phonecalls, your going to get them plain and simple. If I or anyone posts an address here, it doesnt take a neurosurgeon to figure out that we may recieve mail we dont want. In which case, its up to ME to decide if I want it or not...not IFish. Washington is Washington...good for them, but theres no such law in Oregon.

Is spam unethical? who cares? if you dont want it dont post your addy.

As far as the who what where of the spam? I dont care. Ill decide whats spam and what isnt in my inbox. Web-based email accounts are free and serve well as "spam catchers" Put DBD Keta and everyone else on your "safelist".. set filters..end of problem. Just like adding your name to the national "dont call" registry.

Ryan Pultz · 09-02-2003, 08:34 AM

have once stated how I feel about This email on my last post so there is not much to say I just feel the real problem here is last time this person spammed ifish I personally mailed this person and asked to never receive the email again and gave my resins. What made me upset was I requested not to receive anything from this site yet they choose to ignore me and my wishes and spam me once again. And secondly the spam was taking advantage of the ones on ifish that do feel safe in sharing there information that way if someone wants to email me a question about a post or hey even offer and open seat then hey email me. But do not continue to email Span when I ask you not to in the first place. As far as the site that was in the center the email. I was here in the past and I do know of the antics pulled but the owner of that site to not only discredit Ifish and do nothing but cause problems for the mods of ifish and Jennie who has a hard enough time keeping ifish running. And as a proud user of ifish I want nothing to do with anyone that wants to cause trouble for anyone on ifish we are all friends on here and once someone tries to take advantage of peoples friendliness that�s were I take a stand.

mallardboyy · 09-03-2003, 08:11 AM

AuntyM

Quote:

Just an FYI Jennie. The board in question has plenty of rules, it's just no one knows what they are. I have been banned as have many other people for simply speaking our minds.
Kinda funny actually.

I was told you were banned for forwarding emails, sending hate mail about that person, posting hate commemts about that baord on that board and this one, and posting hate comments about that person on your site.

Any truth to that.

I saw the one on your site and here.

I guess that falls in the "simply speaking our minds" thing . I do not beleve Jennie would alow that either.

Quote:

Jennie and Ifish have been accused of having too tough/double standards and not allowing freedom of speech. Yet when "he" started a new board, "he" wound up having more restrictive policies than what we have here. Sound hypocritical? It is.

i dont see the "more restrictive policies", thing either. can you point one of these out for me please.