Thanks Again G. Bush

[El-Kabong]

the way I read it plants are now encouraged to only make changes such that they stay below the 20% threshold.

which will be a dis-incentive to upgrading plants.
which, in my mind, would lead one to having more pollution.

sounds and smells like another gift to large industry to me.

[El-Kabong]

let us not also forget this presidentail gift

"Iraq will need “several tens of billions” of dollars from abroad in the next year to rebuild its rickety infrastructure and revive its moribund economy, and American taxpayers and foreign governments will be asked to contribute substantial sums, U.S. occupation coordinator L. Paul Bremer said yesterday."

also from msnbc.com

[El-Kabong]

silly me, I forgot this gem also

"The federal government will post a record $480 billion deficit next year and accumulate nearly $1.4 trillion in new debt over the coming decade before climbing back into the black by 2012, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said yesterday."

from the washington post

way to go W!!!!

[Cool Texan]

That's an assumption you are making on the power plants. We dont have all of the information, so we can simply wait and see, and hope for the best.

As for Iraq, its not much of a surprise to see that it will take a lot of $$ to rebuild the country. If it adds to some level of stabilization in the country, then so be it. As for the raw number, its not that impressive of a number if you really think about it.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Not that I'm for pollution, I'm not, but some companies go ahead and pollute and pay their fines because it's cheaper than fixing the problems. Maybe something along these lines could help.

[Stz ll]

Sounds like the old Republican way. If a profit can be made by the destruction of the environment then it must be good for everyone. :depressed:

[El-Kabong]

which raw number are not that impressive?

480 billion?
1.4 trillion?

tens of billions?

I know of a number of schools here in Oregon that could make use of a fraction of that money, not to mention a number of people (roughly 8% of the oregon workforce) who might suggest that number is impressive.

[ 08-27-2003, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: El-Kabong ]

[lost_sailor]

Keep spinnin' ye Bushites. More people wake up every day. November 2004 will be a turning point, one way or the other.

[ 08-27-2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: lost_sailor ]

[reeldick]

Yep, Clinton got the mess started then poor George takes the blame. Old Bill was too busy with the Monica's to tend to business.

No one mentioned that the tens of billions to rebuild Iraq can come from their oil sales. Need not all come from the US and other countries.

[Cool Texan]

The "several tens of billions" is the not so impressive number. Its not even a half of a percent of our GDP. In other words, drop in the bucket....especially if spread across the world.

[El-Kabong]

nice revisionist history, but that makes it easier; blame Clinton.

You might want to review the actions of the first Bush administration re: Iraq and rethink your position.

did you even read the article on Iraq needing billions?

first sentence

"BREMER SAID Iraqi revenue will not nearly cover the bill for economic needs... "

and

" Oil revenue is lower than U.S. planners had hoped, afflicted by antiquated facilities, power shortages and severe looting. Bremer said Iraq produced 1.7 million barrels on Monday, down from a prewar range of 2.5 million to 3 million barrels a day. His goal is to return production to prewar levels by October 2004.
Even when Iraqi deliveries return to 2002 levels, the industry will not produce enough revenue for reconstruction, Bremer said. "

try

http://www.msnbc.com/news/957720.asp?0cv=CB10

[The Chub]

Why should we, as taxpayers, have to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq? We cannot even get our own economy back on track. Our schools are nose diving, and Bush wants us to pay for another countrys rebuilding. I think not!!! We need to start getting businesses back in the USA. We are collectivly digging our own grave by letting companys go overseas.

[ 08-27-2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[Bill Monroe]

"A m(b with inflation)illion here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking about real money." Winston Churchill

[Stz ll]

Clinton may have had some problems with judgement and telling the truth. However one thing that Clinton had was a balanced budget. No trillion dollar deficits like we are going to see under Bush.

I find it real funny how when the ecomnomy started going real good when Clinton was in office the Republicans said it was Reagan who started it and Clinton just happened to President when it happened. Now that we have a Republican in the office with a poor and declining economy they now say it was Clinton who created the mess and poor George is one who gets the blame.

Please give me a break.

[ 08-27-2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Stz ll ]

[freespool]

Lost Sailor,I think the Captain has already issued the launch spin doctors order. Or would it be,deploy all spin doctors,I say again,deploy all spin doctors?

[Stratocaster]

Heard the fishins gettin good.

[pdxkevin]

I heard that the bears were out in plain view this time of year. so the huntin' should be better.

[Cool Texan]

Originally posted by The Chub:
Why should we, as taxpayers, have to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Uh, perhaps cuz we blew it all up?!? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] C'mon Chub...that's how it works.

[ 08-27-2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[lost_sailor]

Exactly, CT!

And we just HAD to blow it up, because ...

um ...

why?

[Cool Texan]

You're living in the past LS. Fact is we did it. Right or wrong, we did it. Thus, we help pay to rebuild it for the people there.

[STGRule]

Those that don't learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. There is no such thing as in the past. That is the history that we use to build the future. We should never forget the past. Whether it happened last week, last year, last decade or last century. NEVER forget mistakes, ever. No matter who made them or why.

[ 08-27-2003, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[Cool Texan]

I couldnt agree with you more STG. The point I was trying to make is that while we are learning from our mistakes, we must also take responsibility for our actions, and thus, rebuild what we destroyed.

[crabbait]

Take responsibility for actions???? We are talking about Gee Dubya here. It has all got to be someone else's fault.

[freespool]

Just watched the national news,and they said this will probebly be headed for the courts. Did any of Bill Clinton's decisions end up being decided by a judge? Not counting the dry cleaning bill for Monica's dress. This looks like it's going to be one of the greatest examples of putting lipstick on a pig,the world has ever seen. Can't wait to see what happens.

[ 08-27-2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: freespool ]

[Cool Texan]

Originally posted by freespool:
Did any of Bill Clinton's decisions end up being decided by a judge?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Hmmm....one example comes to mind...

[skrimmy]

Don't people have better things to do around here than whine about how the demos did this and the republicans did that and REALLY think they're going to change anyone's opinions? Or do they just rant to make themselves happy? I'm so freeking tired of the political whining and finger pointing that goes on here! So, I'm retreating back to the main board once again....come on folks, get out there and fish. SHEESH...end of rant, goodnight! [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[El-Kabong]

More good news for teh environment thanks to W.

"In a major revision to the nation’s Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Agency on Wednesday issued a final rule exempting thousands of older power plants, refineries and other facilities from adding pollution controls when they do certain maintenance work. "

from MSNBC.com

http://www.msnbc.com/news/956901.asp?0cv=CB10

[Cool Texan]

Sounds like there isnt enough evidence one way or the other as to whether or not the maintenance will really help cut pollution. Time will tell....hopefully for the better.

[pdxkevin]

If the old rules were making it cost prohibitive to maintain the existing equipment in a safe condition than it is a good thing that they were revised.

Than yes, Thank you Mr. President

I do not wish for nor want more pollution. I highly doubt anyone does. There is a need for regulations but they must be sensible and realistic. Perhaps the regs had been written in such a way as to actually cause more pollution in the end if plants were reluctant to do maintanance due to the cost of required upgrades.

I noticed it wasn't for all maintanance. Only certain. Does anyone know the specifics?

Either way, this issue will remain hotly debated for a long time to come (regardless of who is/was/will be in office).

[freespool]

Skrimmy,if political current events aren't your cup of tea,why read them? And better yet why post?

[El-Kabong]

Here is yet another one from the I Just Am Dumbfounded by the Coincidence File

"Halliburton, the company formerly headed by Vice President Cheney, has won contracts worth more than $1.7 billion out of Operation Iraqi Freedom and stands to make hundreds of millions more dollars under a no-bid contract awarded by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, according to newly available documents."

from msnbc.com

Just how deep does this administrations corruption go?

[Straydog]

Originally posted by freespool:
Skrimmy,if political current events aren't your cup of tea,why read them? And better yet why post?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">B I N G O!!!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Always amazes me to see posts complaining about others complaining.

In the words of the great John Prine, "It's a big ol' goofy world............"

By the way, no one has mentioned the favor GW did for us when he came up with his ill conceived No Child Left Behind and Highly Qualified Teacher hogwash, without the benefit of funding to support it.

Next time people want to ask "how come the costs of running schools keep going up?" they need only look to the Bush Admin. to find many of their answers.

[ 08-28-2003, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[skrimmy]

Oooh, didn't that make you feel all warm on the inside!

Straydog quote -

"Next time people want to ask "how come the costs of running schools keep going up?" they need only look to the Bush Admin. to find many of their answers."

Yeah, now there's a fine example. The world according to Straydog, it must be so... as if all the school problems started just recently. If they had, the topic wouldn't have been part of campaigns in the last presidential election. I don't know the answer, and I doubt you or anyone else here does.


Will this or any of the other political threads (better read, arguments) here promote good feeling amongst ifishers? Probably not. That's my point. There's always two or more sides to most opinions and threads on politics here. All seem to know the cause and solutions to the topic. I doubt that anyone here, myself included, know either. So, what good do they serve?

My reply here will no doubt irk a few of you...again. Take your shots today, I won't be around tomorrow! I'm going on a cruise to Alaska. Dang, I could have stayed home and helped fund a few more of those projects our government wastes money on that could have gone to schools instead. Like they don't get enough tax dollars out of me already.....no, I guess they don't. The Demo controlled government of our state now wants an additional $500 a year of my pocket after Kulongoski signed off the other day. Sure hope it gets to the ballot this November. I know what my vote will be.

[Cool Texan]

Dont worry Skrimmy, a lot of us will be voting No on that sucker...its the same vote I'll give Kulongoski next time around.

[El-Kabong]

Or. House 25 Dems and 34 Reps
Or. Senate 15 dems and 15 Reps

sometimes the facts don't add up

[DanS]

Hmmm.......

Doesn't look like any Demo majority to me. Still, it must be their fault nonetheless.

[El-Kabong]

safe rep answers

1) "It's them Dems Fault"
2) "It's Bill Clintons Fault"

keeps this nice and simple this way

El!

[skrimmy]

yeah, and Gore invented the internet. Ramble on..... :grin:

[DanS]

You tryin' to get on the "Most Trusted List" along with Al Gore?

[Woody]

safe rep answers

1) "It's them Dems Fault"
2) "It's Bill Clintons Fault"

keeps this nice and simple this way

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Look in the mirror. Isn't that exactly the attitude that's being taken against the Republicans.

safe dem answers

1) "It's all the Rep's fault
2) "It's all GW's fault"
3) "Rep's ****** the environment"
4) "Corporate greed"
5) "Anti worker"
6) "Tax credits for the rich"
7) "Haliburton,(Dem's get a lot of milage out of this one)


Sound familiar??

It's pretty easy to throw around these knee-jerk buzz phrases with out really looking at the problem.

Oh Oh, how about this one.....George W. isn't really our President, because he fixed the election in Florida.

[ 08-28-2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Woody ]

[freespool]

Skrimmy,let me point out the obvious to you. This is the Life in General page,this is where folks chew the fat about all kinds of subjects. Politics is just one of them. Looks like your more interested than you think,so lets hear what you have to say. Everyone has his or her point of view on any given subject,and I value your opinion,I may not agree with it,but I value it just the same.

[ 08-28-2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: freespool ]

[Cool Texan]

Blah blah blah blah blah....

[skrimmy]

Well said, cool tex! I've already wasted more time than it was worth.

[DanS]

Wow, CT......you must have put a great deal of thought into that response. It shows........

[Woody]

How about Ken Star?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">You're making my point for me.

[Cool Texan]

My comments were pointed at no one, just at the nature of this thread.

Grow up Dan.

[STGRule]

Please keep this on topic and NOT personal. Okay?

[El-Kabong]

Another good use of our tax dollars!

"Bangkok (dpa) - At least 3,000 American security agents will be deployed to protect U.S. President George W. Bush during a summit meeting in Bangkok, in addition to thousands of Thai police and military officers, news reports said Thursday. "

[Cool Texan]

Probably the same number that would have been used for Gore or Clinton. What's your point?

[El-Kabong]

that assigning 3000 people to guard one person is a waste of tax payer dollars.

what is your point about Clinton or Gore? I didn't mention Clinton or Gore?

[Cool Texan]

If it was Clinton making that trip a few years ago...how many do you suppose would guard him? If it was any other president, how many do you think would guard him/her? Probably around 3,000.

[El-Kabong]

and what does that have to do with whether I think it is a waste of tax payer dollars to send 3000 people to guard one person?

still not following your reply?

[Cool Texan]

3,000 people to keep our country's president safe. Not a big issue...and hardly not a waste of taxpayer money since these are probably on staff folks anyway. I doubt he hired 3,000 people just for this trip.

In otherwords, its hardly worth complaining about.

[El-Kabong]

I guess from someone is is not concerned about spending tens of billions of dollars to re-build a country that we blew up, the cost of 3000 people flying to thailand to protect one person might not seem significant.

to some people that seems like a waste of money.

heck we are not able to stop terrorists from flying our own airplanes into our buildings, so why do we think that sending 3000 people to protect the pres. is gonna do anything?

[Woody]

Uhhh, hello.....He's THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. It doesn't matter what party he's from, PEOPLE WANT TO KILL HIM. I don't care if it takes 10,000 people to protect him. It's not about the man, it's about the office, and what it stands for.

[ 08-28-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Woody ]

[Cool Texan]

Its better than sending him there with 3 people, dont ya think?

We can agree to disagree on the point.

[DanS]

CT,

Me grow up? Take a look at your response again. Uh, huh.........that's what I thought.

[El-Kabong]

m not sure that it is better then sending 3 people actually. but I stand by that sending 3000 is a waste of taxpayer dollars.

[Cool Texan]

So what is the right number to send, when sending the President to a foreign country in the current world climate?

[El-Kabong]

42

that is the answer to life the universe and everything afterall!