Violating Mandatory Reporting Laws?

happybrew · 06-08-2003, 05:20 PM

It seems that Planned Parenthood has been violating mandatory child abuse reporting laws on a massive scale.

Click Here!

They even have actual recordings of conversations with Planned Parenthood staff showing how they protect abusers.

happybrew

STGRule · 06-08-2003, 06:08 PM

Happybrew: We will always disagree on this subject. However, this is based on first phone calls. We don't know what happened after they had one-on-one conversations. They have to get these children into a safe place to talk to them. Over-the-phone conversations about turning in somebody aren't going to work on a scared child. NOBODY in their right minds would allow a pedophile a second chance and I know in my heart that Planned Parenthood wouldn't either.

Again, we won't ever agree about abortion, but I respect your opinion about it.

crabbait · 06-08-2003, 06:19 PM

I reviewed most of this site. Their agenda is very clear and, yes, there are girls being impregnated by men 18 and over.

When I listened to the tapes, I heard clinic workers trying to assist a young girl (obviously a put-up job since the girl is the same in all cases). They did not promote the situation. Instead, they are trying to help the girl with a condition that they had nothing to do with generating.

You are entitled to your opinion concerning abortion. The linked site and this topic are not about stopping adult predation on teenage girls, however, they are about discrediting Planned Parenthood in order to promote a pro-life agenda.

I will not debate pro-life v. pro-choice with you here and I encourage others to avoid the topic as well. Nothing will be resolved and people will end up with hard feelings.

The Fishing Geek · 06-08-2003, 06:21 PM

How do we know that these are actual recordings with Planned Parenthood? Give me a handful of people and a basic recording device and I'll get the local armory to prove that they have black helicopters flown by aliens and trained by Elvis Pressley himself.

crabbait · 06-08-2003, 06:27 PM

Geek - That's supposed to be a secret!! Stifle yourself.

happybrew · 06-08-2003, 08:04 PM

This isn't about abortion. This is about Planned Parenthood not following the mandatory reporting laws. They clearly counsel the caller not to say anything to give her identity away so that they don't have to report her. They clearly think it's okay for some guy to keep abusing her. They are enabling it, in fact, by hiding the evidence. If my daughter were being abused by some guy twice her age, I would certainly be quite upset if I found out someone required to report it failed, in fact refused to do so. I am a mandatory reporter. I know what the law is. They are breaking it. I'm sorry you feel that's okay. By the way, this group has been endorsed by Priests For Life. If you think they're faking it, you're entitled to that opinion. They say they have every call thoroughly documented.

happybrew

1pump · 06-08-2003, 08:10 PM

Mmmph...arghgjj....wummmaa....grrrrr.......

(the sound of 1pump taking crabbait's advice and muzzling himself)

The Fishing Geek · 06-08-2003, 08:13 PM

Give me 15 minutes and I will document those aforementioned black helicopter phone calls.

If there are people out there who, after meeting with an unmarried female under 18 who has admitted to having sex with a male 18 or over, do not report that fact to the authorities, then it is wrong and it should be dealt with within the full power of the law. However, I have learned long ago that just because it is on the Internet it does not mean that it is true. Even if you take away the "Internet factor", without well-documented proof that these phone calls indeed happened with a Planned Parenthood call intake person, I will remain skeptical.

happybrew · 06-08-2003, 08:16 PM

It's on more than just the internet, and I didn't find out about it at that site.

happybrew

happybrew · 06-08-2003, 08:24 PM

I know this denial well. It is the same denial I felt when the abuse scandals in the Catholic Church came out. I said to myself "Yeah, right, they accuse a bunch of dead guys and people with Alzheimers. There's no way." Then it got bigger and bigger. Then one of my customers told me about her son being abused, and I knew the woman, and she wasn't making it up. She's still a devout Catholic, a saintly woman. The difference here is that Planned Parenthood is a sacred cow that nobody will touch. So I can appreciate your responses. I had the same response to a similar situation at one time.

happybrew

The Fishing Geek · 06-08-2003, 08:27 PM

I understand your position, and hope that the proof never materializes. Not due to my feelings on the abortion rights front, but instead because it would be sad if it is, in fact, happening.

1pump · 06-08-2003, 08:35 PM

OK, how many statutory rapists are there on this board? If you had a girlfriend in high school, and if you turned 18 before she did, and if you were doing the dirty deed, then you were a rapist. Is there a statute of limitations for this? I hope so, or many of us are going to be in big, big trouble.
This is no different than a 50-year-old priest molesting a 13-year-old boy.
You betcha. Nothing needs to be put in context. It's all black and white. No middle ground.

happybrew · 06-08-2003, 08:53 PM

The caller was posing as a 13 year old girl with a 26 year old bodyfriend. Yes, it is similar.

happybrew

lost_sailor · 06-08-2003, 09:14 PM

If there is a suspected violation, it should be investigated by law enforcement authorities, not the Internet yahoo community.

happybrew · 06-08-2003, 09:30 PM

The thing is, no actual crime was committed in this case. It was a sting to see if they would violate the law. A 13 year old girl isn't going to tell anyone that she has an adult boyfriend, especially if she's had an abortion. Some of the guys who do this victimize scores of young girls before anyone finds out anything, and then it is difficult to prosecute. I've known very closely several victims of sexual abuse, and they don't talk about it until years after the fact, unless someone else finds out and something is done. When they finally realize the gravity of what has happened, and regain some self-esteem, then they are very angry. But the fact is, they are reluctant to come forward because nobody will want to believe it, as we see right here.

This research been admitted in court, though. It's not just some internet conspiracy.

story

Actual abuse cases have gone to court as well.

story

happybrew

[ 06-08-2003, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

Straydog · 06-09-2003, 07:13 AM

If a kid 18 is sent to war to kill people he is a hero.
If that same kid has an intimate relationship with a 16 yr. old he is a pediphile and rapist.

Please........

happybrew · 06-09-2003, 08:20 AM

Not true. I may be wrong here, but I believe in most states the law stipulates that if there is a small difference in ages it's not statutory ****. However, there is a big difference between an 18 year old with a 16 year old, and a person in their 20's with a 13 year old. In most states, 13 years old is below the age of consent. In Oregon, I believe the age of consent is 16. I could be wrong. The fact of the matter is, though, health care providers are mandatory reporters, and they have demonstrated that they don't wish to follow the law. A 40 year old could walk in with a 13 year old, ask for birth control, and nobody would even ask if he's her father. It has happened, and frequently. A 13 year old asking for birth control is clearly a case for mandatory reporting, as she is below the age of consent, even if its the parents bringing her in, but it won't be reported.

Denial is what perpetuates sexual abuse. Nobody wants to believe it. It makes people uncomfortable. When they do believe it, it gets minimized so that nothing is done. This is what is going on with Planned Parenthood. It is easier for them not to know, so they don't wish to know, even though they provide services that can enable an abuser. This isn't about two teenagers going at it. This is about grown men victimizing young girls, aided by Planned Parenthood's looking the other way and providing services to prevent or eliminate the obvious evidence of the girl's abuse, contrary to mandatory reporting laws. It's a hard thing to face. It's not surprising that nobody wants to face it. I find it odd, though, that people will be entirely willing to believe the government lies on scantier evidence than that proving Planned Parenthood is avoiding mandatory reporting laws.

happybrew

happybrew

The Fishing Geek · 06-09-2003, 09:56 AM

Again, if these reports are true, then it will be sad, indeed. However, lumping all of the actions of a reported few together and condemning all of Planned Parenthood is no more acceptable than lumping the actions of a few priests together and condemning the Catholic Church as a whole, to reuse a comparison.

happybrew · 06-09-2003, 10:28 AM

You have a very good point. However, they claim to have tapes and transcripts from hundreds of clinics. To be fair, there is no evidence put forward of actual violations of the mandatory reporting laws on this scale, however I suspect that it is happening, and with very good reason. If hundreds of instances show them instructing the caller not to give her name so that the guy doesn't get into trouble, it is reasonable to conclude that large numbers of clinics do not wish in an actual case to know the specifics either. With the Catholic abuse scandal, the few responsible resulted in a very large number of victims. It took decades before most of them told their story. It will probably take decades before victims come forward in large numbers in this case as well. Given that mandatory reporting laws are of recent origin, and Planned Parenthood is not the perpetrator of abuse, it is likely that most of them will not come forward. In any event, though, it is incumbent upon Planned Parenthood to ensure that they do not try to avoid complying with mandatory reporting laws. If they try to duck the issue, I can almost guarrantee you that in 20 to 30 years, if not sooner, they will see lawsuits on a scale that may bankrupt them. Nobody believed it with the Catholic Church, and it got buried. It came back later to bite us, and on a scale that was much greater than if it had been dealt with. It will come back to bite Planned Parenthood as well if they don't deal with it now.

happybrew

Thumper · 06-09-2003, 02:51 PM

Fascinating story. While I'm not a fan of abortion, I wonder if this isn't a case of Planned Parenthood employing "hear no evil" techniques so that they can provide their worthy (to them) "service"; i.e., an abortion. Is Planned Parenthood legally bound to ask for the name and age of the male? If not, why on earth would they ask?

Happybrew is surely right about one thing --- Planned Parenthood is asking for mighty big legal trouble in the future.

happybrew · 06-09-2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thumper:
Fascinating story. While I'm not a fan of abortion, I wonder if this isn't a case of Planned Parenthood employing "hear no evil" techniques so that they can provide their worthy (to them) "service"; i.e., an abortion. Is Planned Parenthood legally bound to ask for the name and age of the male? If not, why on earth would they ask?

Happybrew is surely right about one thing --- Planned Parenthood is asking for mighty big legal trouble in the future.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">This will be my last post on this subject, the reason for which you can read later in the post. I am quite upset tonight.

Thumper: Are you a physician? I thought I saw you mention in another post regarding removing hooks from extremities that you went to medical school. If you are, then you are a mandatory reporter in Oregon. I don't know what the law is in Washington where you live. I am a mandatory reporter. Because I teach kids in my church, that makes me one. I had to take a class that explained it all to me. No, they are not required to ask the name and age of a girl's sexual partner. A mandatory reporter does not conduct an investigation. A mandatory reporter merely reports suspected abuse to the police or a state agency responsible for conducting an investigation. A girl below the age of consent by definition is a victim of abuse. This is even worse if the person is an adult. Abusers can be of any age. A sibling can abuse someone. A friend can abuse someone. If a child is being beaten by someone else, it doesn't matter who that person is or what age they are. It is a case of abuse. Likewise, age does not matter in the case of sexual abuse. A 16 year old babysitter who impregnates a 10 year old girl (yes, it has happened) is an abuser. Make that a 19 year old and a 13 year old, and you still have abuse. Thus, a girl below the age of consent coming in for birth control, an abortion, or treatment for an STD must be reported. Failure to do so can result in severe penalties. If a girl even appears to be below the age of consent, this should trigger the mandatory reporting laws, although this varies by state, and if the person states their age as above the age of consent, the mandatory reporting laws are not in effect, unless the provider thinks they are lying about their age.

It is incumbent upon all of us, and especially upon mandatory reporters, to be aware of, and avoid, the denial that perpetuates abuse. I am very upset tonight for that reason. A priest in my church, where all of my children were baptized, who I went to classes with, who visited the class I taught to 9 year olds, whom I received communion from, whom I went to confession to, whom my son was an alter boy for, who stopped by and talked to us at the parish breakfast, who was applauded long and loud by the whole church when he came back after an assignment to another parish, was accused today by seven people of abusing them while they were incarcerated at McClaren, while he was the chaplain there in the 70's. I don't honestly know what to think. I am not in denial, having gotten past that in the past year with the Catholic Church abuse scandals. I need to see what the evidence is and what the courts say, as I'm sure those who disagree with me about Planned Parenthood would like to see. It upsets me greatly. I had to pray about it for a long time. I had to talk to my mom and my wife about it (both also victims of abuse). The only thing I have to really say is this:

Look at the evidence presented. Don't be in denial. Protect your children!!!!! (We pulled our children out of a daycare center when my wife worked, because the caregiver's husband didn't seem "right" and he was jailed nine months later for child **** of kids under her care)

My brother's Boy Scout leader spent 8 years in jail on sex abuse charges, to which he pleaded guilty. Nobody wanted to believe it, including my brother, but he did it and he admitted it. Everyone excused his behavior for one reason or another, until someone caught him.

If a man who has solemnly promised to serve God can abuse a child, anyone can at the very LEAST act as an enabler. Don't let that be you!

Know who your children are with. Know them! If you have any funny feelings about them, and TRUST those feelings! Don't tell yourself that you have no evidence. Both my Mom and I have concluded, based on her experience and mine, that your feelings, even if you can't pinpoint any evidence, will protect your child. They protected mine, hers, and they will protect yours.

Planned Parenthood has at stake, not in your children's welfare, but in a political agenda. Don't trust it. Trust your instincts, and take care of your CHILDREN. It's your responsibility. No one else will do it for you. It is the ONLY way to protect your children.

I apologize if I have rambled and gotten disorganized. I feel strongly about this, and it takes a lot out of me to write about it. It upsets me greatly, as I have had a large personal stake in this subject. I love you, and I want you to protect your children. I'm an emotional, yet rational guy, and that affects what I write. But really, really,,, protect your children. Protect all children. Don't let someone do someone else someone you love, or even just like, wrong because of your politics. I know I won't.

happybrew

happybrew · 06-09-2003, 10:48 PM

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. If you DON'T know a victim of abuse, you're not paying attention.

happybrew

Thumper · 06-10-2003, 02:09 AM

Thanks again Happybrew for an elegant post.

STGRule · 06-10-2003, 05:43 PM

I too will make this last post on this subject because it is so important to me and this subject also upsets me.
The first thing I would like to point out is the name of the organization is Planned Parenthood, not Terminated Parenthood.
The primary function of this organization is to give women (and men) a choice about when and if they will become parents at a cost most people can afford.
I have used their services and I will tell you why. I made a choice at the age of 16 to be sexually active with a particular individual. That activity resulted in an unplanned pregnancy. Out of sheer terror we (yes, both of us) made an appointment at Planned Parenthood to discuss an abortion. After the pregnancy test to confirm the pregnancy, we were given a plethora of options (one of which was the abortion we had planned at the time). Not any one option was "pushed" more than others except telling my parents first. After being left to go over the options and a suggestion that we make another appointment to discuss any choices we needed clarified, we left. We chose to get married (just had our 30th anniversary). And dealt with the consequences.
After we were married and had out son (the best son ever I may add), we decided that any more children at the time would be foolish as we were living on one minimum-wage job. We were able to obtain the birth control we needed to ensure our decision. We could not have afforded it any other way.
My other experience was with a friend who could not marry the father of her child (for a number of reasons that were hers) and she decided on the abortion. She was able to obtain the safe, legal, medical procedure from Planned Parenthood. While this was a traumatic experience for her (which is why I will never believe any women would ever use abortion as a birth control method) it truly was best at the time. Even now, many, many years later and with a husband and children, she says she made the best decision at the time. There are regrets (there would have to be), but not regret for the decision. I have many friends who have used their services that never had to make the decision about abortion and are glad they were there to help so that would not be a decision that had to be made.
I feel just as strongly about the good work they do as you feel strongly about how that doesn't fit within your beliefs. As such we will never agree about this subject. I support your beliefs, please support mine.

The Fishing Geek · 06-10-2003, 06:26 PM

Something that my wife brought up tonight is that it is entirely possible that Planned Parenthood wouldn't want to have to report such a situation. If the girl has turned to them for help, that usually means that she feels that she cannot turn to her own parents for help, and that Planned Parenthood might be, to her mind, her last option.

The girl, for whatever reason, most likely is still very protective of her "boyfriend", and if she feels like she can't go to Planned Parenthood safely, then she may not get the medical help that she needs. That help may come in the form of termination, or in the form of prenatal care for either adoption or a kept-child. As proper medical care is even more crucial for girls this age than adult pregnant women, it's important that they get the right information for their situation.

It's unfortunate that a program like Planned Parenthood would have to resort to what can be interpreted as skirting the mandatory reporting laws to make sure that these girls get the medical help that they need at an affordable price. Ultimately it is the parents of the girl's responsibility to report the adult male to the police, as they are her guardian. Sadly, that more often than not never happens, and I speak to this from family experience.

Firedog · 06-12-2003, 05:26 AM

STG and Fishing Geek, both excellent posts. Very well said.

Moderator comment: After some discussion, the mods have decided this thread has run it's course. We have a diversity of opinions on this subject among Ifishers. Most of us have strong opinions on this subject. Expression of opinions has been pretty respectful to this point, but there have been some pot shots and inflamatory posts which don't contribute to this discussion removed. Rather than host uncivil monolog, I'll just leave this at "'Nuf said".

[ 06-12-2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Pete ]