9-10-11 Faction --- The Answer?

Thumper · 05-16-2003, 04:19 AM

There are a few candidates for the PPS board who believe that they can reduce the local Portland school budget without raising taxes. Are they on track?

Pete · 05-16-2003, 04:29 AM

There was an editorial in the Oregonian yesterday that suggested some problems with the 9-10-11 plan. Part of their platform is the elimination of centralized administration, thus principals and parents would be responsible for recruiting and hiring at each school. Also, the plan doesn't seem to account for federally mandated programs. Oregonian Editorial

Straydog · 05-16-2003, 04:53 AM

Not by a long shot.

It cracks me up. One of the mantras of the "me, me, me" crowd is to run schools like a business but they expect educators to be business managers.

Further, they forget that no succesful business that I know of anyway give complete managment control to each location. Ever notice how similar all the Wal-Marts, GI Joes, KMarts, Freddy's, Albertson's, etc, etc are? It isn't because the individual managers just happen to think alike, it is because large entities with satelite locations do not run efficiently if all seperate locations are doing there own thing.

That inefficiency would prevail in schools as well. They may well lower costs but will reduce success and efficiency in the process.

[ 05-16-2003, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Thumper · 05-16-2003, 06:48 AM

I thought that Phil Knight's article on P. D13 of the Oregonian this morning had some good points.

He reminds us that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. He then cites the relative cost of spending for Portland schools and how that amount ($7,984 per pupil) compares with that spent in other locations --- Seattle (16% less than in Portland), Sacramento (46% less there), and the national average of $5,949 (34% less), according to a 1998 report by the National Center For Education Statistics.

So what is wrong with Portland. And what is the solution?

Cool Texan · 05-16-2003, 07:44 AM

Thumper, if you could answer that you'd have a new job in town. :smile: Its a tough call. Obviously the current system is not working in Oregon. Hopefully somone will come up with a workable solution.....soon.

Straydog · 05-16-2003, 02:00 PM

I too thought Phil Knight's piece was good!

fisheromen · 05-16-2003, 03:30 PM

Ditto. No one I know, crackpot or not, is saying we should cut off schools. But to keep going with the cost of education consistently outpacing revenue growth seems a bit suicidal. I think a lot of the reason people are voting no on 26-48 is that we want to make sure that the school board doesn't coast but gets creative and makes hard choices. We don't trust them to change their ways unless things get really bad. This concern is validated by their irresponsility in the past (things like not curbing health insurance costs when they had the chance earlier this year.

pdxkevin · 05-17-2003, 05:39 AM

Cut off the schools. Bring back the one oom school houses!!!

(just kidding)...

It would be interesting to see a full percentage breakdown of where our tax money for Oregon scholls it going. Then compare that with how the other states' precentile breakdowns.

Are we paying 25% more in Oregon uniformly or are there certain items which are really sucking up the many? I don't know but would like to.

Straydog · 05-17-2003, 07:24 AM

Very good point, pdxkevin.

I think that is a lot of my frustration in the debates here concerning education. It feels like the whole system is being judged by the misdeeds or shortcoming of the largest districts in the state.

While I am in agreement that there are things that need changing and improvements to be made in our district too, it just dosent seem we have the problems and incompetance, perceived or real, that Portland and the other Metro districts have, yet I read where we need to overhaul the whole system based on upstate problems.

fisheromen · 05-17-2003, 07:29 PM

Kevin, Cascade Policy Institute is a great source for some of this info. Their research concludes that next school year Oregon will pay $783 into PERS for every student. That's a big chunk o change. They have an extensive study there on funding for k-12 in Oregon over the last 12 years that I haven't waded through fully but it is very interesting. In adjusted for inflation and enrollment costs, school funding rose only 8% from 91-2001. When you consider the growth of PERS, the immigration population needing English classes, and the number of students being diagnosed with learning problems it is no wonder that schools are coming up short.

They have some great info on PPS there too and like Stray says, we suck.

They also say that the Multnomah Income Tax will push us up to virtually the highest combine Federal, State, and Local income tax IN THE NATION. While having the highest unemployment. Makes no sense to do this to ourselves.

Cool Texan · 05-18-2003, 10:46 AM

Kevin, its all public information and available. Just gotta find the right combination in Google to find it.

Cool Texan · 05-19-2003, 06:58 AM

My fun filled weekend of grass digging was briefly interrupted by a guy wanting to make sure I was going to vote, see if I had any questions, etc. We spoke for a brief moment about it all, told him I was a bit on the fence but teetering well towards the No vote. I asked him about this 9-10-11 thing and what he knew/thought of it.

He made only a few comments, first and foremost that he wasnt completely informed about the group, but knew of the people involved and didnt like it. He further pointed out the Oregonian backing the ballot measure and not 9-10-11.

After he left, I was struck with a thought. The 9-10-11 group has an idea which has received a lot of attention (good and bad), and has the Oregonian saying it has major flaws, etc. However...as my thought went, at least its a group of folks wanting to try to do something different to fix the situation rather than just dump more money on it. Maybe they're on to something.

Anyone have any good solid arguments for or against this group and their plan? I'm most interested in discussions that can address short-comings of what they propose, and not discussions which merely center on what is missing from the plan (sounds like they are aware of it).

garyk · 05-20-2003, 12:28 PM

"Cascade Policy Institute", oh yeah, they've got an abiding concern for public education.

Last year they were editorializing against public libraries. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] .

Fact is CPI is corporate-libertarianism run amok.

"Privatize it all" is their mantra. They're generally against public infrastructure, believing that everything should be privately owned, and user-fees levied to use anything.

They also advocate selling off all public lands.

I think the CPI folks need to go back to school (a public one) to learn that this nation was not founded by corporations for the benefit of corporations.