backing up with offshore bracket

skaha · 07-14-2009, 09:09 AM

problems backing up your boat with offshore bracket. Any hints.
--using long shaft kicker or main motor just doesn't want to back up, especially in the wind.
--is this just something to live with or do some boats with offshore bracket work better than others.

--I've seen video of a custom made silver streak, looks to back up well but haven't seen one on the water to be sure.

namu mac · 07-14-2009, 09:37 AM

Maybe motor shafts ned to be longer. The reverse thrust needs to be below the bottom of the boat. If not it hits the transom and you have poor reverse.

Gundog · 07-14-2009, 05:33 PM

My 21' Seahawk with offshore bracket does not back up as good as my last boat did? My last boat was a 20' trophy walk around.

Mike

Highmark · 07-14-2009, 07:22 PM

That is odd. My last boat was a Bluewater sportfisher 21.5.
It had the problems you are talking about. where as my
Northriver O/S with Off shore bracket performed better
than any boat for maneuvering around in reverse.
I will admit that wind does pull on it a little more than
the other boat did. But the added performance that the
offshore bracket adds to the boats over all performance.
makes up for it small short comings.

OB1 · 07-15-2009, 06:56 AM

My 20ft Seahawk with the long shaft kicker does not back up that great but with the XL shaft on my 150 Honda no problems.

skaha · 07-15-2009, 07:34 AM

--didn't want to get into the boat name but here go's it a 17.5 powerbolt by thunderjet. 90 hp Suzi main and 9.9 hp long shaft Suzi on factory supplied bracket mounted on the off shore platform.
--reason being don't really want to get into a discussion like should have bought a North River.

--Would really like to know if it is the motor position, shaft lenght or boat hull/bracket design and just have to live with it.

--When I looked at the silverstreak video they spent a fair amount of time demoing the boat backing up. Thus I suspect they have either found a design solution to what appears to be a common problem or they know how to set up the motor.

--pictures of a working set up would be helpful thanks

--I'm not intending to change my boat so really looking for someone with same boat that backs up well. My main motor and long shaft kicker were set up by the dealor so maybe what I got is just the way it's going to perform.

--For sure willing to put up with other boat owners chime on how well they work but maybe a picture or some tech advise... Would be interesting to know if Northriver owner same boats one backs up better so could maybe find out what the issues may be.

--Was thinking lower motor position but expect that would give up some top end speed. might be worth it to get a different bracket for the kicker but it is already fairly close to the water. Sometimes an inch can make a big difference.

--I just don't want to start making major changes if no hope of a cure.

--thanks

skaha · 07-15-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highmark

That is odd. My last boat was a Bluewater sportfisher 21.5.
It had the problems you are talking about. where as my
Northriver O/S with Off shore bracket performed better
than any boat for maneuvering around in reverse.
I will admit that wind does pull on it a little more than
the other boat did. But the added performance that the
offshore bracket adds to the boats over all performance.
makes up for it small short comings.

--Would be great if someone has same boat that does not back up as well then could narrow it down to motor position or weight transfer etc. If all NR perform well backing up then expect it is hull and bracket design different from thunderjet or the dealors have the motor position dialed in.

--I wouln't give up my off shore bracket, great casting platform on lakes plus fishing room and performance of a larger boat.

--I got this size boat as I take it to remote lakes which don't always have the greatest launch sites. Often launch from shore, no dock etc so have to back up... ever notice its always windy just a launch time!

--have lost a few shear pins on rocks and stumps at launch sites that I haven't used before or with wind can't see what's on the bottom. Have learned to use the paddle more to get the pointy part of the boat facing the lake to take off into the wind and the motor in deaper water.

KingSalmonBoy · 07-18-2009, 08:42 AM

Skaha, Your problem is most likely due to the fact that your props are pushing most of the water against the back of your boat (limiting thrust, which is what Namu Mac said). You can tilt it up a little to direct the water under the boat or change the mounting position of your motors if possible or get a longer lower unit. One of the advantages of the bracket you have is the motor can be mounted higher relative to the bottom of the hull, allowing the prop to ride higher in the water and provide for higher efficiency to due to less drag on the lower unit and limit contact with rocks etc. A disadvantage is exactly what you are experiencing. If it was me, I would try to mount my kicker lower or work with the dealer to swap your kicker out with an XL as that would be a good compromise.

skaha · 07-18-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingSalmonBoy

Skaha, Your problem is most likely due to the fact that your props are pushing most of the water against the back of your boat (limiting thrust, which is what Namu Mac said). You can trim it up a little to direct the water under the boat or change the mounting position of your motors if possible or get a longer lower unit. One of the advantages of the bracket you have is the motor can be mounted higher on the transom, allowing the prop to ride higher in the water and provide for higher efficiency to due to less drag on the lower unit and limit contact with rocks etc. A disadvantage is exactly what you are experiencing. If it was me, I would try to mount my kicker lower or work with the dealer to swap your kicker out with an XL as that would be a good compromise.

--thanks: I'm going to try the tilt first of course. have a long shaft but not XL shaft.
--I think if I lower the kicker it may start getting excess water splash as already mounted on factory bracket on the offshore bracket. I'm sure the dealor will let me try xl shaft kicker to ensure it works before having to trade.

--although looks like the motor is well below hull I checked with a level and it is not as far as I thought.

--if tilt doesn't work I'll try longer shaft kicker as don't want to loose fuel efficiency on main engine with lower position.
--however would like to hear from some thunderjet owners if they have solved the problem.

--I don't mind spending the money if it goes from OK to Good it would be worth it

Highmark · 07-18-2009, 10:39 AM

I have another question. Why are you using the kicker to back up any way
Or are you using it to back in to waves while holding a position during fishing
Like halibut. when you have to hold yourself or back in to it keep the ball
on the bottom. ???

skaha · 07-18-2009, 11:44 AM

--hold a position while jig fishing or casting
--have kicker attached to main for stear sometimes detach and use extension on tiller for boat control
--will be getting front mount electric for control in fresh water when casting near shore, again to hold position when I do not want to anchor.
--in wind or current could use kicker or main plus bow mount for direction control.

--I fish by myself a lot during the day... boat control easier when fishing with a partner, I can control boat.

--Like I said it is OK but I think it could be better.
--kinda like you always want your kid to be perfect
--can't stand it when someone else brags about how well their boat performs only to find we don't have the same expectations.
--an old dog but willing learn new tricks.
--always a rookie in someones eyes, really appretiate the advice.

--use combo...sea anchor, drift sock to reduce drift etc.

--also when launch into new areas from crude boat launches in the wind, doesn't take much to get into trouble.

--Ideal to take a look at launch area with no wind and can see bottom and obsticles.

--we have detached tralier and winched it down to water on some of these spots that are really intended for car top launch.

--these are remote large lakes often several miles to a better launch site if one is available.
--I went with largest boat I can get into these areas. we carry extra props and pins etc. as no where near repair facilities. Ideally go with other boats and someone familiar with the site, but not always possible.
--16 degree hull and offshore bracket is appretiated to give safe comfortable ride for the boat size. so far the boat does everything I expected just looking to improve on the one area.

--I fish all species and style, troll, jig, fly etc. so have to make some compormise. have other specialty boats... canoe, inflatable pontoon, 12ft alum etc when required but the TJ is my main boat.

--I've only had the boat two seasons so still fine tuning and finding out what it can do. Wouldn't trade it as fits the bill most of the time and usually exceeds expectations.

damoperator · 07-19-2009, 06:26 AM

Arew you using your kicker to back up? Is it T8 ? The prop on a T8 pushes real well but pulls [backs] poorly due to prop desighn.

Damoperator

skaha · 07-19-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damoperator

Arew you using your kicker to back up? Is it T8 ? The prop on a T8 pushes real well but pulls [backs] poorly due to prop desighn.

Damoperator

--long shaft suzuki 9.9
--havent been out to try the suggestions yet but I am fairly sure prop is not far enough below hull and is pushing to much water into the stern rather than under the boat hull.
--going to try the tilt first then demo longer shaft motor if no cure.

--I got the boat to use in nasty weather so tweeking it, not really a boat control issue with light wind

Starfish · 07-19-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damoperator

Arew you using your kicker to back up? Is it T8 ? The prop on a T8 pushes real well but pulls [backs] poorly due to prop desighn.

Damoperator

Interesting...I found the exact opposite. My T8 backs up better than any other kicker I've tried.

I also have noticed that my buddy's Thunderjet with offshore bracket drives like a tank in reverse. I'll have to try tilting the engine up a bit to direct the thrust under the hull... my instinct is to do the opposite but I can see how that might help.

skaha · 07-20-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish

Interesting...I found the exact opposite. My T8 backs up better than any other kicker I've tried.

I also have noticed that my buddy's Thunderjet with offshore bracket drives like a tank in reverse. I'll have to try tilting the engine up a bit to direct the thrust under the hull... my instinct is to do the opposite but I can see how that might help.

--I had same idea was always full tilt down expecting better control and stearing. After the post I looked at both engines full tilt down on tralor and put a level on them, just above the prop. It is decieving to look at but with full tilt down the both engines actually point slightly up toward the stern.

--This is only my second season with the boat and first boat with off shore bracket. I didn't think much about it until I saw a video of another make.. spent several minutes in the video demo backing up. This is obviously an issue with off shore bracket boats so I was not sure if they have a different hull design or just discovered the correct motor position for thier boat.

--Deep V with main motor shallow for speed and fuel efficiency so would be good if I can dial in the kicker for back up in tricky wind or tight spot. I would be happy with this as a trade off.

--Also the areas I use the boat often no dock so have to beach the boat, haven't had a serious prop strike with the main but have busted prop on kicker... a lot cheaper to replace.

bullshooter · 07-20-2009, 10:12 AM

What year is your seahawk? 05 had the oldstyle bracket and 06 had the new one where the bottom was extended all the way out. I would imagine that the older style would back up a little better with the motor in any position as the newer style would have to have the engine down for best results.

My personal experience is I went from a 20ft inboard jet to a 21ft seahawk with the newer OS bracket. Big improvement. I do have to lower the engine to get the best reverse handling. If I have it trimmed up it does not steer as well. The kicker is pretty useless in reverse. I think it all comes down to getting the prop below the boat.

goatram · 07-20-2009, 03:37 PM

On your boats when backing down with a t-8, what is keeping the engine from kicking up and cavitating? I can not find a lock on mine like my 06 9.9 mercury big foot has. My T-8 is electric tilt

BiteFactory · 07-21-2009, 06:41 AM

Try tilting your engine(s) up a little when maneuvering around the docks. It does a lot for me. I think it directs the blast away from boat when in reverse.

nunyet · 07-21-2009, 02:36 PM

A lot depends on the type of prop an lower unit on the kicker motor. If you have a high thrust prop reverse is as strong as forward. These are usually found on what the manufactures list as sailboat motors.

I can pull my 25 foot diesel off the beach in reverse with my t8 with the high thrust prop. The amount of sail area cerated by a top and windshield will always make it harder to maneuver than a open boat , but to me its worth the comfort.

nunyet