This isn't right!!!

trap50 · 04-24-2003, 02:19 AM

I went to work Monday morning to find a note posted by the time clock. I work at the State Hospital in Salem. It Says" Support a panama mission trip missionary." A manager put it up. He is willing to change his hair color for money!!! "With your financial contribution you can vote for hair that is red,purple, orange or blue". On top of aking for religious donations he is asking for people to pay for his vacation.He is the person going. There ought to be something a person can do about this.

[ 04-24-2003, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: trap50 ]

The Fishing Geek · 04-24-2003, 02:32 AM

Like...not contribute?

Lucky Bamboo · 04-24-2003, 05:17 AM

It's amazing what some people will try to get away with! :shocked: I'd just ignore the whole thing.. :tongue: Most people are smart enough to recognize a "something for nothing" scheme!

Straydog · 04-24-2003, 05:24 AM

Maybe just ignore it would be a good plan.

Or, you might find out what their mission actually is and learn that perhaps, just by chance, this person is planning on doing something very worthwhile for people in need. Heck, if you find it is legitimate, the cause might even be worthy enough to inspire you to give the person a couple of bucks to help someone out.... [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

With all the real problems around us, I have trouble finding this too horrific.

pdxkevin · 04-24-2003, 05:58 AM

There is definately somethings you can do about it:<ul type="square">[*]you can not contribute.[*]you can contribute.[/list]
The second one could be a bonus for you in a couple ways. It look's like you are a 'team player' (good for reviews). If you don't like the individual, you help get yourself a vacation from that manager. Even if you don't like the religous beleives of the organization doing the mission, is the mission going to accomplish something you deem as good, such as building housing or the like? Find out what is going to be the end result of this mission.

OceanBlue · 04-24-2003, 06:54 AM

Trap50: I obviously don't have the whole story, but as you've posted it, it sounds unethical to say the least. It is inappropriate for a manager to make a request for donations, religious or otherwise. The manager is opening him/herself up to to speculation if a subordinate is denied advancement or is disciplined. Bad juju.

crabbait · 04-24-2003, 07:02 AM

If any part of your review is based on whether or not you contribute, you have a major problem in the workplace.

If the person soliciting the donation is in a position that makes you feel obligated to contribute, you have a problem in the workplace.

Your decision to contribute to any charity, whether it be organized like the United Way or private like this one, is your own decision. When people start judging your character or whether you are a team player based on your participation is when this becomes a real problem.

Cool Texan · 04-24-2003, 07:28 AM

Someone actually wants donations to fund a missionary trip to Panama where they will probably be staying with locals in horribly poor conditions and dealing with dirt, disease, and pestilence? That jerk!!! (that was sarcasm by the way)

Missionaries dont go to places and stay at the Ritz, so I wouldnt worry about it. Do your research...what is the purpose of the trip? Perhaps he/she is going to help build a hospital for the children down there, or dig a well...who knows. I doubt its to film Panamanian Girls Gone Wild.

Donate or dont donate...easy.

04-24-2003, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Like...not contribute?

Simple

Thanks Geek [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Hoosier Daddy · 04-24-2003, 07:46 AM

....and no one has noticed that he said it was at the State Hospital........

Cool Texan · 04-24-2003, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:
....and no one has noticed that he said it was at the State Hospital........

And your point is?

He also never said it was religious, if that is where you are going with it.

We're missing data to judge...like the purpose of the trip.

Hoosier Daddy · 04-24-2003, 01:38 PM

That's my point as well. That's really not the place, regardless of how much good may come from the mission itself. It belongs elsewhere.

Cool Texan · 04-24-2003, 01:46 PM

Straydog · 04-24-2003, 03:29 PM

So, those of you that are against this for the state/church thing, do you feel our kids should not be allowed to recognize Christmas in schools?

Should "under God" be removed from the pledge of allegiance?

[ 04-24-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Artwo · 04-24-2003, 03:45 PM

I like to keep thing pretty simple, if your not interested don't contribute.

But............if there is a written policy about posting such items in the work place then it should be taken down, even if the person who put it up is management.

JK

Hoosier Daddy · 04-24-2003, 03:46 PM

SD, no and no.

To me this really has nothing to do with whether religion should or should not be there. It would be the same way for fliers for a garage sale or school play.

Let me also say that I wouldn't have brought the issue up at all. But since it was brought up, I chimed in. The only reason I reminded folks that he was talking about a state office is because that is where I thought he was going, and everyone else was focused on whether there was pressure from the top to contribute, which would be a whole nother issue.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be there just because it is religious, its because I think its inappropriate to post it in such a place.

[ 04-25-2003, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Hoosier Daddy ]

STGRule · 04-24-2003, 03:49 PM

Time clock was not a good place to post the flyer. A lunch room would be fine. Christmas season in school? Yes, if other major religious holidays are too. If not, then no. "Under God" removed? hmmmm Yes, I think so. Mostly because not all good, contributing members of our society are christian and I believe it is pompous of us to ignore that. I am a Methodist and I tend to be tolerant (its that "liberal" side of myself showing).

[ 04-24-2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

trap50 · 04-24-2003, 05:23 PM

There is such a double standard for management and line staff there. A manager is selling avon. A line staff employe was told he couldn't sell his potatoes on the grounds.Oh could I go on with this. The misuse of time ,waste etc. I guess I'm really happy i'm going to retire June 1.We do patient Christmas parties?

This is tax money paying for part of this.!? This is deeper than what I thought it would be.I've talked to newspapers, TV and radio. Not a big enough story for them. Seen a lot in 27 years.

[ 04-24-2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: trap50 ]

DF · 04-24-2003, 05:34 PM

One nation under GOD.... A god, not a certain god, thats the way I like to think of it.
And in our school, kids who choose not to take part in Christmas type things.... don't have too!

STGRule · 04-24-2003, 05:47 PM

D/F: What about the agnostics? What about Native Americans? Druids? etc.

trap50 · 04-24-2003, 11:57 PM

I guess my point is that I don't believe it's right for anyone to ask for contributions for any religious reasons in a State agency. This is sponsered by a church. I'm not to judge good or bad, just how it was posted.Isn't there a seperation of church and state? Maybe this is different? They don't let the line staff post private functions like that.

[ 04-24-2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: trap50 ]

Straydog · 04-25-2003, 06:30 AM

STG,

I think you are pushing the envelope a bit if you are implying that Agnostics and Druids are "major" religions but I do agree that the real major religions should be recognized as well. However, we live in a world (supposedly) ruled by and formed for the benefit of the majority. There-fore I think it makes sense that the majority religion have the most emphasis or participation.

I focused on the religeous aspect of this situation rather than the placement of the notice on the time clock. I suppose the lunchroom may have been more appropriate however as a person that is into marketing, I have to applaud the persons skill of hitting his entire potential market by utilizing the time clock location! :grin:

[ 04-25-2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

corrirod · 04-25-2003, 07:29 AM

This is a discriminatory lawsuit waiting to happen. Put it in a public place where people have the "option" to look at it, not over the time card machine. When someone takes this to court and wins, which sounds like it would be a slam dunk, guess who pays that million dollar settlement? That's right, get your wallet out.

Quote:

There-fore I think it makes sense that the majority religion have the most emphasis or participation.

So does that mean we do whatever the Muslims say we should do?

Straydog · 04-25-2003, 07:40 AM

Do the Muslim's represent the majority religion in our culture?? :whazzup: [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 04-25-2003, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Hoosier Daddy · 04-25-2003, 07:40 AM

I think Christmas parties in school are fine. But we do have to be sensitive to focus on Christmas as a standard holiday, and take the religious focus off of it in school to be fair to other denominations/religions. As far as "under God" in the pledge, I think it should stay, and if you don't want to say it, you don't have to. How many schools actually still do it? My wife's school didn't when she taught (I don't think anyway).

Straydog · 04-25-2003, 07:48 AM

Our school still says the pledge and we still say it before many school events as well as School Board meetings.

I have no problem with it. My point is, where do we draw the line?

corrirod · 04-25-2003, 07:59 AM

So because there are more people that believe in your "god" that means you get religious precedence? Please.

Before this turns into a religious battle, for the record, I have no faith, just trying to protect the rights of those that do and aren't in the majority.

Straydog · 04-25-2003, 08:05 AM

So, Corrirod, you are saying the whole democratic process is flawed and we need to change our entire system??
Are you pushing socialism, communism, fascism or what? What are you suggesting we change to?

[ 04-25-2003, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Hoosier Daddy · 04-25-2003, 08:07 AM

I believe we should do what we can to allow everyone to express their religious views if they have them. However, you have to make some concessions in school, especially considering that there isn't enough time for the teachers to actually teach as it is. Let alone setting aside adequate time each day for religious stuff. I don't favor prayer in school, but would like to see time made available for those that want to pray AT school. I have no idea where they would get the time to do it though. As long as those that don't want to pray or pray differently don't get any pressure from it.....
As for the pledge, it's called the Pledge of Allegiance, not the Pledge to God and Jesus Christ. There is one religious statement in it, that can easily be skipped by those that don't want to say it, or replaced with something they think is appropriate. The patriotism and need to remind people of their country is important, I think.

As for Christmas, I think most schools already do this as a general "Winter Holiday" kind of thing, where they discuss holiday celebrations from many cultures at the same time.

corrirod · 04-25-2003, 08:13 AM

Last I checked Straydog, religion and government were two different things, right? You're trying to make them the same, or actually make religion the deciding factor on who gets to "govern". If you'd like to continue this topic then we need to move it off of this thread as it does not pertain to the original posters subject.

Hoosier: I agree.

Straydog · 04-25-2003, 08:18 AM

HD,

I think you are probably right about most schools celebrating a more generic holiday season.

We had a Principal that did this. She also disallowed any reference to Halloween. Our kids celebrated a "Harvest Festival" and all costumes had to be geared towards a fall harvest theme.

These attitudes and other percieved shortcomings put several active and involved parents into action and this Principal is no longer managing our school.

We had an interim Principal last year. (came out of retirement for one year to help us) At a Site Council meeting a month or so prior to Christmas, I asked him if we were going to call the Holiday celebration a "Christmas" celebration under his watch. He looked at me kind of funny like and said, "well, it IS Christmas time, isn't it?"

We do include songs and customs of other cultures and religions in our school but it is, even with our new 'permanent' Principal, still called the Christmas celebration.

This "liberal democratic greenie" still thinks the majority of us celebrates Christmas and that is what it should be called. Yes, we should also celebrate the beliefs of other cultures as time and space allows, however, I think celebrating (not forcing) the beliefs of the majority is the right thing to do.

[ 04-25-2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Straydog · 04-25-2003, 08:21 AM

Corrirod,

I am not trying to make them same.

I am simply pointing out that most everything we do is based on the will of the majority. Right or wrong, it is still the way we operate.