Aquarium fish trouble

fishgirl · 04-17-2003, 01:04 PM

I have a Jack Dempsey cichlid who I've had for six years... he's about 9 or 10 inches long. Last weekend, I moved him to a new tank. After a day, he stopped swimming normally and is now basically standing on his head. I moved him back to the old tank thinking there might be something wrong with the chemistry in the old tank. He's now been acting the same way for four days. I've been medicating him with antibiotics since Monday.

Does anyone out there have experience in this area? Any ideas on what else I can do to help him?

Cool Texan · 04-17-2003, 01:25 PM

Easy solution to your problem:

fishgirl · 04-17-2003, 01:29 PM

OH NO!!!!

AuntyM · 04-17-2003, 01:31 PM

Cool Texan, that's just mean.

fishgirl, I have a good friend that owns a pet store and she always answers my fish Q's. Email her at glassfloats@hotmail.com She might be able to help. Tell her Marsha told you to email.

speyfly · 04-17-2003, 01:36 PM

fishgirl, do you know what the PH of the 2 tanks were when you moved your friend to the new tank? If there is a PH difference between the two tanks he could be suffering from PH shock. If I remember right, cichlids like a little higher PH. Did you acclimate him before releasing him into his new home?

The Fishing Geek · 04-17-2003, 01:41 PM

fishgirl:

Caye's Aquarium in SE Portland is known in the area to be one of the best cichlid shops around. Their business is pretty much cichlids and some salt species, and they know their stuff. Give them a call at (503) 287-3339. Many folks around here take their cichlids there when they go on vacation, so that's how trusted they are. They do a great job.

Cool Texan · 04-17-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AuntyM:
Cool Texan, that's just mean.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Admit it though, you giggled for a second at first. C'mon...admit it...we're all family here.

Fishgirl, you get two sides with that.

fishgirl · 04-17-2003, 03:00 PM

Thanks for the replies.

AuntyM - I e-mailed your friend, thank you!
speyfly - I do not know what the pH is/was in either of the tanks, I am a bad fish owner and don't have a test kit! I did cycle the new tank and used gravel and some of the water from the old tank.
Geek - thanks for the info, I'll give them a call
and CT - yes I will admit it. I did giggle. :smile:

boater · 04-17-2003, 03:10 PM

dont use painted gravel

Pilar · 04-17-2003, 03:55 PM

Fishgirl, I used to raise ARL (African Rift Lake) cichlids, mostly Aratus (Black and yellow stripes) but I had a few Jack Dempseys.

Your fish is in distress for sure. Does he still feed? You may need a vet if he is off feed. It sounds like some kind of shock. The point about Ph is important. In the native environment for these fish the Ph is high, 8.0, and the mineral content is almost saltwater like. Anyway they have a very specific and narrow set of conditions in which they will thrive and even breed. They are pretty tough and can survive in any oxygenated aquarium. If he is used to a certain set of conditions and they suddenly changed that may explain the shock. If he is still eating then he will recover.

If you never worried about Ph before then your fish is used to the prevailing conditions you had. When you change tanks though the Ph may have changed as well. Buy a kit and learn about it.

If you change the water or move the fish to a new tank use only tempered water for the refill. Fill a spare aquarium or large container (preferably glass, not metal or plastic) with water and let it sit for 24 hours. This allows allows dissolved gases such as chlorine to dissipate. Then use the tempered water for your water changes. Use water right out of the tap and you are taking chances. We would add a small amount of sea salt and some other compounds to raise the ph before the replacement water was left to sit.

Also you must allow the fish to acclimate when you move him. What we did was drain some of the water into a smaller aquarium from the one getting cleaned. Then the fish were moved to the smaller aquarium for a couple of days. You can move them right away without acclimation if the temperature is the same or close and you are using the old water for the temporary aquarium.

After you do the cleaning and refill allow the big tank to sit for a day with the filter working and then move the fish back in. Check the ph and temperature before you move them. Use a plastic bag like your feeder goldfish come in and fill it 1/2 full of the old water with one or two fish in it. Then float the bag in the target tank to match temperature. After a few minutes add some of the new water to the bag. Do this several times over a 1/2 hour and then release the fish into the aquarium.

The issue is whether 'jack' is still eating or not. You don't have a very long time to fix it if he is off feed.

[ 04-17-2003, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

sinker · 04-17-2003, 05:24 PM

I'll 2nd the ph problem, sounds like ph shock and putting him back in the other tank may have just made it worse. Not real sure but just taking a fish and popping it from one tank to another is not a good thing.
E-mail me and I'll give you a link to a fish msg brd. Don't want to tick Jen off by posting it here.

:grin:

fishgirl · 04-17-2003, 05:28 PM

Thank you so much Pilar for all the info.... I feel like a horrible mother to this poor guy! I borrowed a test kit from a friend and the pH in the small tank (where he is now, and where he was all his life until stupid me decided he needed a retirement home) is 7.4. The pH in the big new tank is 7.6. Not a huge difference, but it could have been higher or lower the day I had him in there.

I don't think he's eating. If he is, it's not when I'm watching. He is still fighting though. If I reach in and touch him, he will flip right side up and swim for a minute or two before he goes back to standing on his head.

And fish vet? I didn't know there was such a thing. Do you have any contact info? It might be worth a try. I'm starting to get desparate...

The Fishing Geek · 04-17-2003, 06:04 PM

You can pick up some salts that will help take your tank up to 8.0 at pet shops. I would highly recommend that to get your pH where it needs to be. Just don't crank it up too much, too quickly.

[ 04-17-2003, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: The Fishing Geek ]

fishgirl · 04-18-2003, 04:35 PM

Well, I got home from work today and he looks much better! He started swimming a little bit last night, but still going back to resting on his head. Today he was resting on the bottom of the tank - right side up! And when I tossed in a couple pellets, he came up and ate them! Almost back to his old self.

Thank you all for the advice... I definitely will handle moving him differently if/when I decide to try it again.

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 06:32 AM

I wont unplug the George Foreman just yet....

FrogPond · 04-21-2003, 07:15 AM

crushed coral will increase ph as well...if anyone would like some cichlid babies, I have plenty and more are on the way!!! Better yet if anyone wants a really fertile pair... :shocked:

Jack can still go to his retirement tank if you want him there. I recommend using water from the tank that he is in to fill it. You can do this over some time, this will allow your filter to get established too.

Good luck!

The Fishing Geek · 04-21-2003, 07:51 AM

I miss my lemon yellows :depressed: Maybe after the move.

fishgirl · 04-21-2003, 08:02 AM

Geek! My plan was to put lemon yellows in the old tank after I move the big guy to his retirement home. How did you like them?

Labsforme · 04-21-2003, 08:27 AM

I believe Dempsey's are South American Cichlids and like a low ph(acidic) environment.I had Africans from Lake Malawi for a long time.Please double check what type water ph and hardness,etc.

The Fishing Geek · 04-21-2003, 09:49 AM

I loved my yellow (only had one at the time). He was very cool, and had some good personality. The problem was that I only had a 20 gallon tank, and it was a bear to keep all the numbers where they should be. I ended up having nothing but a plecosthemus at the end, which my son decided one day that he needed a bath. Amazing how quick a couple shots of hand soap will kill a fish.

Maybe I'll try again with some cheaper fish in the 20 gallon tank later, and if that goes well get a larger tank for some hot cichlid action.

Pilar · 04-21-2003, 09:58 AM

Fishgirl, that is encouraging. When they stop eating, that means they are in serious trouble.

Labsforme, thanks I always thought they were from Africa. They can have the same aquarium conditions as the ARL cichlids from Africa. The store that got me started suggested the Jack Dempseys and cichlids as a good combination. Cichlid are very territorial and each fish will stake out a rock to guard as it's own. Water hardness is above average for most fish IE: somewhat salty and Ph in the range of 7.5 to 7.7 was what worked for me. This range of conditions always made for bright, active fish.

Cichlids are the inexpensive equivalent of Saltwater aquariums without the hassle of maintaining a salt water tank.

Cichlids are fascinating fish. Your Dempsey will absolutely love it if you feed him live small fish or brine shrimp in small quantities as a treat. Cichlids are very colorful and they interact in a complex social structure like wolves in a pack. This can be hard to watch as they single out sick fish and pick on them till they go. But add a new fish to the aquarium and watch the drama as the rest go through the exercise of re-establishing who is the top dog. The same thing happens when you add a new plant or rock. The dominant fish will display the most brilliant colors and the others will submit by turning down their colors a notch. The less dominant fish will flash bright colors when they pick on a lesser fish and then resume the dull coloration when they are noticed by thier betters.

If you change the Ph, do it in small increments over time. Make a small adjustment and wait a day or so. You may even see it 'bounce' if something in the tank is acting as a buffer. In other words it may go up when you add the chemicals and then drop back down as the gravel or whatever absorbs the chemicals.

Have fun!