alternatives

feisty's wife · 04-16-2003, 11:14 PM

Want to get a differant take on the spin we hear about Iraq? Go to rense.com...get the truth.

Worm-N-ator · 04-17-2003, 08:00 AM

Ya, if you believe in UFO's!!

Hoosier Daddy · 04-17-2003, 08:05 AM

I think the picture on the front page is a scene from "Three Kings", a classic......

[ 04-17-2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Hoosier Daddy ]

Cool Texan · 04-17-2003, 08:56 AM

This is the dumbest web site I've seen in a long time!! :grin: This is just hysterical to read!!

My favorite article is the one on Bigfoot!!

http://www.rense.com/general5/bgft.htm

04-17-2003, 09:29 AM

Even Arab News [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] isn't this bad

[ 04-17-2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Hoosier Daddy · 04-17-2003, 09:35 AM

One of my faves!!
http://www.dc8p.com/html/moonhoax.html

Cool Texan · 04-17-2003, 10:04 AM

Moonhoax...that is a great one!! :grin:

Snapset · 04-17-2003, 12:09 PM

I would work to improve your source list.

[ 04-17-2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Snapset ]

Cool Texan · 04-17-2003, 12:26 PM

That site just kills me! I think I laugh more and more each time I look at it!!

Snap, I'll honk when I drive through Philomath this weekend.

feisty's wife · 04-17-2003, 08:47 PM

Those were the replies I expected....any other open minds?

Cool Texan · 04-17-2003, 09:18 PM

[img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Born to be Wild · 04-17-2003, 10:45 PM

Ditto that. Fiesty, you can't be serious?

Hoosier Daddy, that moonhoax was great!

I emailed that one to a couple of my friends.

feisty's wife · 04-18-2003, 01:29 AM

Ever wonder why we have not gone back to the moon? Does everyone beleive all that the Gov tells them?Do you folks REALLY think the GOV is your friend? Cant anyone else see their freedom going down the tube? Why do I waste my time? I need to go fishing.

sinker · 04-18-2003, 02:25 AM

I was reading some of the stuff on there about the "poor Iraqi's" and how "mean" we are.
I've never seen so many typos and poor grammar before in my life. (with the exception of myself and a few others who shall remain nameless :grin: )
And this is supposed to be a reputable news source?

If you want some interesting reading check the forums here out. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

Granted who knows what to believe on it but I was watching it during the build up of the war and I'd hear about stuff on here before I heard about it in the "news".
It's entertaining if nothing else.

[ 04-18-2003, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: sinker ]

Cool Texan · 04-18-2003, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by feisty:
Ever wonder why we have not gone back to the moon? Does everyone beleive all that the Gov tells them?Do you folks REALLY think the GOV is your friend? Cant anyone else see their freedom going down the tube? Why do I waste my time? I need to go fishing.

Feisty....please tell me you are kidding? You believe in the moon hoax?!? Guess that makes 4 people now.

Think about it...how many people would have to keep that a secret? NASA probably had a couple thousand employees working on the project, the government had a few dozen involved.... that is a LOT of people who have NEVER opened their mouths. Give me a break dude. You're watching X-Files too much.

As for Freedom....can you elaborate how our freedom has gone "down the tube"?

Cool Texan · 04-18-2003, 07:53 AM

Feisty...some light reading for you:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

http://www.unmuseum.org/moonhoax.htm

Hoosier Daddy · 04-18-2003, 08:05 AM

oh, stop, you're killing me.....

Of course no one believes everything the government tells them. We also don't believe everything we see on the internet, Arthur Clarke's Mysterious World, In Search Of, and the SciFi channel either.......An open mind is one thing, letting your brains fall out of it is another....

Gotta go, I just have to know what Rense has to say TODAY.....

Tanner · 04-18-2003, 08:11 AM

Dude,
If you are so suspicious of our government, maybe you should think about moving somewhere else. I hear Canada has a great health care system.

OceanBlue · 04-18-2003, 08:14 AM

CT: You saw the article on Bigfoot's death, right?

Seattle Times

Cool Texan · 04-18-2003, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:

Gotta go, I just have to know what Rense has to say TODAY.....

feisty's wife · 04-18-2003, 08:51 PM

Tanner, I am a Veteran, Sir, Honorably Discharged, and see nothing wrong with pointing out what I see are the wrongs done in the name of the Peaple of the US...isnt there supposed to be freedom of expression in this country of ours?Our freedoms are incrementally disapearing, but ole Joe sixpack dont care, so long as he/she is entertained. Its coming. Cracks me up, how, invarioubly, a person who disagrees with The Herd will be persona non grata...leave the country....have a nice day...baaaa....

Cool Texan · 04-19-2003, 03:18 PM

Do you have examples of how our freedoms are going away? Probably not.

feisty's wife · 04-19-2003, 05:30 PM

Hey, Cool Texan, you ever hear of Patriot1&2? Those are extremely repressive, do you know the 4th amend to the constitution has been effectively suspended?

Silver Hilton · 04-19-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cool Texan:
Do you have examples of how our freedoms are going away? Probably not.

1) the patriot act gives the government the right to request search warrants in a secret court. The target is neither informed of the warrant, nor does he have the right to appeal.

2) Recent case law in the area of the war on drugs has effectively eliminated the right of the accused to confront his accuser. The government can use informants who are paid, who are not required to be produced in court for the accused to confront. These changes originated in the area of drug law, but are becoming usable in other areas of the law.

3) Voters rights. In florida, the secretary of state, a republican, took great steps to eliminate democratic voters from the ballot. These are well documented, and resulted in an election result widely viewed in the world to be as fraudulent as any in a banana republic in south america.

4) The recent US goverment acts and edicts to start monitoring all of our financial transactions.

If giving up our constitutional rights, privacy, and corruption of the most basic element of our goverment, honest elections, aren't evidence that our freedom is being diminished, I don't know what proof would convince you.

[ 04-19-2003, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Silver Hilton ]

Born to be Wild · 04-20-2003, 09:09 AM

SH,

If this means giving up some of the rights for criminals and terrorist, I'm all for it.

I still fill I have adequate freedom.

Dan

[ 04-20-2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]

Straydog · 04-20-2003, 09:13 AM

DBD,

And that is exactly what those that would abuse this are hoping the masses will say.

You have played directly into thier hands, but don't expect them to show appreciation for it.

"adequate freedom"?? HHmm, that is an interesting term in the land of the free.

[ 04-20-2003, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

04-20-2003, 09:29 AM

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

Cool Texan · 04-20-2003, 06:06 PM

So in other words, Feisty and SH are able to cite an Act which has been put into place, but not point out how this impacts their freedoms.

As for the Florida election...oh that is just a sad one. Time to let go of that one already.

And time for me to move on from this thread...its just sad.

The Fishing Geek · 04-20-2003, 06:24 PM

Analysis of the Patriot Act II, for those who care.

Just curious for those who don't care: if the Government decided that the best way to find terrorists is to have surveillance cameras installed into each home in America, would that be acceptable? After all, if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.

Serious question.

04-20-2003, 07:28 PM

Geek,
This is bad stuf. It can't be blamed all on the R's though. It was a Bi-partisan killing of the Bill of Rights

[ 04-20-2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

The Fishing Geek · 04-20-2003, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
Geek,
This is bad stuf. You can't blame it all on the R's though. It was a Bi-partisan killing of the Bill of Rights

I'm not.

fishwhenican · 04-20-2003, 07:45 PM

Silver Hilton: Lane County (Yes that is in Oregon) still uses punch ballots. If you are not smart enough to pull off your own "chads", do we really want to count your vote? Or are you saying it was only the Democrats that weren't smart enough?

The Fishing Geek · 04-20-2003, 08:11 PM

I don't believe that a person's ability to be able to (or remember to) pull off the chads on a punch-type ballot is an adequate measure of intelligence.

Regardless, all Americans, regardless of intelligence, have the Constitutional right to vote in public elections. I sincerely hope that you are not suggesting that we take the right to vote from those deemed "not smart enough".

The Florida elections issue goes far beyond "chads", and is an interesting read for those interested. It is, indeed, in the past, and hopefully enough has been learned from that unfortunately incident so that what happened there does not happen again. We should never have to go to such lengths as we did in 2000 just to get a President.

Kruechief · 04-20-2003, 11:07 PM

SH,

Quote:

Voters rights. In florida, the secretary of state, a republican, took great steps to eliminate democratic voters from the ballot. These are well documented, and resulted in an election result widely viewed in the world to be as fraudulent as any in a banana republic in south america.

Meanwhile, dead Democrats are comong back to life and voting and poor ethnics are paid to cast their ballots??

PS: Meanwhile, in New York, an ex-first lady proves that anybody, no matter how evil, can buy an election! Now that is truely OUT OF THIS WORLD!

Krue

Hoosier Daddy · 04-21-2003, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

That's the one I was looking for....

I have no problem with all of us looking out for our freedom. We should definately do so. But come on, the rense.com thing is just freaking FUNNY!!!

I fail to see the correlation between thinking that site is funny and full of baloney (I will grant that at least some of their stuff is legit, but would argue strongly how much), and being a sheep that doesn't care about our personal freedoms.

And for the record, TFG didn't accuse the Republicans of being the only ones after our freedom, at least not anywhere I see in this post (or others, to my recollection). We all know both parties are after our freedom. Politicians in general, in my mind, believe they know much better than we do, what is "good" for us. That is why they are politicians. Kind of a necessary evil in that regard. I don't like someone deciding what's in my best interest for me, nor do I like the Clinton method of trial balloon decision making. So pick yer poison folks.....

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 08:11 AM

So in summary to this thread, yes, rense.com is just dumb. Secondly, while everyone will bark about losing freedoms, no one is able to say how they have lost any freedoms....all they can do is talk about the Act which apparently has not impacted them at all. Kind of like me talking about my lottery winnings.

Next topic!

:grin:

The Fishing Geek · 04-21-2003, 09:38 AM

CT:

Just because we have not been directly impacted by the Patriot Acts doesn't mean that we should sit by uncaring. They are a serious breach of our privacy, and it should not be tolerated.

If it suddenly came out that the US government was opening up all of our snail mail in search for terroristic activities, would you not be upset? That's what's happening to our emails. You don't see a problem with this? And no, I am not doing anything illegal. I just want my freaking privacy so that I don't have to worry about what sort of profile they are building on me that may or may not be wrong in their eyes.

Snapset · 04-21-2003, 09:48 AM

There must be another wrinkle in space-time because I find myself agreeing with the geek. CT, I never heard your honk. Were you going fishing?

04-21-2003, 09:53 AM

HD,
It was a mis wording in my post above the Geeks that I edited to reflect the truth.
Sorry Geek.

Quote:

If it suddenly came out that the US government was opening up all of our snail mail in search for terroristic activities, would you not be upset? That's what's happening to our emails. You don't see a problem with this? And no, I am not doing anything illegal. I just want my freaking privacy so that I don't have to worry about what sort of profile they are building on me that may or may not be wrong in their eyes.

The Geek and me agree on something

It's past time to take our country back from the politicians and force them to work FOR us not against us

[ 04-21-2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:
CT:

Just because we have not been directly impacted by the Patriot Acts doesn't mean that we should sit by uncaring. They are a serious breach of our privacy, and it should not be tolerated.

If it suddenly came out that the US government was opening up all of our snail mail in search for terroristic activities, would you not be upset? That's what's happening to our emails. You don't see a problem with this? And no, I am not doing anything illegal. I just want my freaking privacy so that I don't have to worry about what sort of profile they are building on me that may or may not be wrong in their eyes.

Sorry, but you already stated my answer... I'm doing nothing illegal, so no, I dont mind. I dont fear the great government conspiracy. Maybe I should watch more X Files. :shocked: :grin:

Wasnt going fishing...going to visit the mother in law for Easter. I tried honking...but I guess my horn doesnt work when the truck is only going 25mph through town and kids are passing me on their tricycles!! :grin:

04-21-2003, 10:40 AM

CT,
Illegal can be interpreted in many ways and we are loosing our rights one step at a time.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[ 04-21-2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

The Fishing Geek · 04-21-2003, 10:42 AM

Wow. If you seriously have no problem with people opening and reading your snail mail or email, then I guess that you won't have a problem with the changes that are being forced on us. To each their own.

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 10:47 AM

My house will never be searched, cuz there will never be probable cause as I walk the straight and narrow. If some email leads them to believe I am a nut-job that needs to be checked out, they are welcome to come in and look around all they want. If that keeps me safer in life, then that's great!

I love these political discussions...emotions charge up, and in the end, nothing is solved. :grin:

04-21-2003, 10:59 AM

What if you have a disagreement with a neighbor and he tells the SS that you're growing pot (meth, child abuse, thinking bad thoughts about a protected class of citizen, or whatever). They can bust your door down.

The Fishing Geek · 04-21-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cool Texan:
I dont do illegal things (that I will admit to on an email or phone).

And that could very well be enough to cause a search of your home.

[ 04-21-2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: The Fishing Geek ]

corrirod · 04-21-2003, 12:52 PM

Oh I can't take it anymore. I've tried, I really have, to stay off this thread, but I can't.

CT, I'm with you.

I have nothing to hide on my emails, my phone, my house, my mail, etc. If they're are looking then I'm sure they're pretty bored. If they are looking then I haven't noticed, and therefore I don't care.

What amazes me the most is this one common thought that the government actually goes out of their way to infringe on our rights. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Do you really think they sit there and scheme of ways to take our rights away? They are trying to protect us, both from others and ourselves.

These people are not aliens, or some immortal beings, these are our friends and relatives in these positions. These people have homes, and families, and children just like the rest of us. You want to talk about privacy infringement, look at the President's life. Do you think there is ever a camera not on him, or a microphone near by to catch every word he says. You act as though there is a double standard for these people and yet they are the ones most under surveilence and scrutiny.

I have no problem with you voicing your opinions against the ACT, just stop blaming the government and come up with a solution. We (U.S.) have a huge problem to solve, how to keep from having another 9/11. The Patriot Act was/is the immediate solution. If this is not the correct action to take then please explain what is. It's very easy to point out a problem, the real genius is to point out the solution.

If you have a better way I'd be glad to support it but all I hear is people complaining about how it "could" effect them in some way. Please forgive me if I missed anyone's solutions in the previous posts, perhaps you could highlight them for me again.

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:
And that could very well be enough to cause a search of your home.

Um, no it wouldnt. If you really belive this, then that would mean this will be the death of comedy too, and music, and art, and...

But enough of that...I am bored with this thread. So one last time... www.rense.com is a dumb web site with zero credibility.

Next topic.

Snapset · 04-21-2003, 02:09 PM

I think as long as there is peace in the homeland, and people are not starving or declaring class wars we do not have too much to worry about. However, when things get a little dicey, terrorist attacks increase, and we continue to find that there is almost always a religious incentive behind these attacks, that is when the freedoms will quickly erode, and whatever right to privacy was assumed to be implied in the constitution will be gone.

Since I belong to an organized religion, I think if a certain number of the members of this religion were to start up with the terrorism,I would have to assume that I no longer had any privacy. The problem, is that the government enjoys the privacy that a secret investigation affords. I think the government has my best interests in mind, but at one time the government was issuing extermination orders for members of certain religions. It could happen again, if things got very bad.

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 02:26 PM

Well let me just add here that I am now yet one more post closer to 1,000.

crabbait · 04-21-2003, 02:57 PM

1000, huh. Let me know when you get into real numbers...... :grin:

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 03:37 PM

I'd be there if that Geek would stop removing them!!! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] :grin: :grin:

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 03:39 PM

Oooooh....getting really close now!! So close, I can almost smell it...or is that just the dog in your avatar??? :shocked:

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 11:14 PM

Then after they kick in my door and realize the guy was lying, I guess he is pretty much screwed. Then I will sue him and replace my door with the proceeds.

Besides, my neighbors would never do that...I am a likeable guy.

northriver1 · 04-21-2003, 11:19 PM

Scary when you agree with the Geek. Twenty years from now I wonder how lawyers will be using the Patriot Act against its citizens.

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 11:22 PM

Twenty years from now I will spend my time wondering how Pamela Anderson is still looking so hot! :shocked: :grin:

Hoosier Daddy · 04-21-2003, 11:32 PM

Twenty years from now the Patriot Act will either be non-existant or unused. If civil liberties end up being trampled it won't stick.

The Fishing Geek · 04-21-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:
Twenty years from now the Patriot Act will either be non-existant or unused. If civil liberties end up being trampled it won't stick.

The first Patriot Act HAS stuck, and is being used. The problem is that there aren't enough people who take their privacy serious enough to care.

northriver1 · 04-21-2003, 11:48 PM

HD - I hope you are right, but do the RICO laws ring any bells with you. Those laws were put in place to fight the mob, but now used against anyone and everyone. I guess it is hard to pass up your share of triple damages.

Cool Texan · 04-21-2003, 11:51 PM

So what you all keep saying is that we are giving up our freedom to carry out illegal activities? interesting.

What freedoms are you REALLY losing? I'm not losing any. Right to privacy? Maybe a little...but no, I dont really care if Uncle Sam wants to read my email or listen to my phone. I dont do illegal things (that I will admit to on an email or phone).

Hoosier Daddy · 04-21-2003, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:
Twenty years from now the Patriot Act will either be non-existant or unused. If civil liberties end up being trampled it won't stick.

The first Patriot Act HAS stuck, and is being used. The problem is that there aren't enough people who take their privacy serious enough to care. <hr /></blockquote>What I am referring to is the likelihood that civil liberties unions, privacy rights groups, etc. are likely to fight this issue and quite possibly win. At least once the clamor from 9/11 and Iraq and terrorism in general calm down...not that the thing won't pass in the first place, as it obviously has...