Attitude Correction

Thumper · 04-13-2003, 06:26 AM

Suddenly North Korea announces it is willing to consider the demand of the U.S. that talks on its future be multilateral. It will now consider any approach to resolve its issues.

Iran assures the world that any differences it has with the U.S. can be worked out through negotiations.

France, Russia and Germany ask for a role for the United Nations (and themselves) in a post-war Iraq.

Ariel Sharon announces that he will aggressively pursue accord with the Palestinians to achieve a region with true peace in the future.

The Kurds pull their troops out of Kirkuk as the U.S. forces arrive, then the Turks pull their observers out of the country as the Kurds depart Kirkuk.

Wow. What do you suppose happened to change all those attitudes?

[ 04-13-2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

crabbait · 04-13-2003, 06:36 AM

Intimidation is a powerful tool! Maybe the next time I am having a problem with one of my subordinates at work I should just grab them by the back of the head and slam their face into the console a few times until their attitude changes. Boy, I bet the rest of them would straighten right up!

Of course, the payback might get a little ugly.... :grin:

Sea Nymph · 04-13-2003, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crabbait:
Intimidation is a powerful tool! Maybe the next time I am having a problem with one of my subordinates at work I should just grab them by the back of the head and slam their face into the console a few times until their attitude changes. Boy, I bet the rest of them would straighten right up!

Of course, the payback might get a little ugly.... :grin:

when he kills numerous co-workers and is still waving the gun around, that may be your only option.

[ 04-13-2003, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Sea Nymph ]

04-13-2003, 08:24 AM

CB,
Sometimes, with the carrot and stick approach, you have to shove the carrot up someone�s ......
IRAN

Peace through superior fire power and the knowledge of when and when not to use it.

[ 04-13-2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Albacore Tuna Captain · 04-13-2003, 09:26 AM

TR had the right idea. "SPEAK SOFTLY, BUT CARRY A BIG STICK!" Twelve years of speaking softly by the United Nations did nothing without backing it up. When you have the back bone to use force when necessary, your soft spoken words will carry more weight with a much more attentive audience.

Silver Hilton · 04-13-2003, 08:29 PM

Yup, the kids always pay attention when the bully is coming. Even if he has a soft voice.

24 on/ 48 off · 04-13-2003, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Maybe the next time I am having a problem with one of my subordinates at work I should just grab them by the back of the head and slam their face into the console a few times

Umm. Remind me not to fly that day, will ya?

--spud-- :smile:

04-13-2003, 08:39 PM

SH,
My kids are of small stature and not inclined to be bullies. The bullies only mess with them once.
The oldest daughter gave one bully a bloody nose and a knee to the sack for throwing rocks at smaller kids and trying to push her into a ditch.
No more problems with this one. Thjey all have been taught to stand up for their rights. They all know if they are in the right I will go to bat for them.

Hoosier Daddy · 04-14-2003, 08:18 AM

I still think this issue is one of the reasons we have had terrorism problems in recent years. We haven't kicked anyone's butt for a while.

No, it's not the "enlightened" way to go, and no, people around the world don't like us for doing such things. However, many of them didn't like us anyway. You can keep some of the people happy all of the time, all of the people happy some of the time, but you can't keep all of them happy all of the time.....You can however, make them realize that if they mess with you, there will be a price.....

Enlightened or not, it works......

Tilla · 04-14-2003, 12:12 PM

France ,Russia and Germany are primarily concerned about the money (Billions) they lost. We might have just stolen one of their better customers! My guess is that their economy has been negatively affected. If you consider just how much they lost, it might shed light on their reluctance and why they wanted to find another way instead of war.
So we made the move, they lost everything and now they want it back. Can you blame them? Sure why not, it's not your bucks! We paint them as anti- war and against us, that's the American way. I am not saying anyone is wrong or right, but just trying understanding the motivations at play.
This war is going to turn out to be a great investment for us.

Uglygreen · 04-14-2003, 12:46 PM

Crabbait.. appeasement? Hmmmm that worked real well in the 1930's huh. Twelve million Jews and a buncha others died because nobody had the balls to take Hitler out in the 30's.

My opinion is that the United States is far more secure than it was a month ago.

Intimidation of brutal self serving dictatorships all over the world by free democratic countries is fine by me!

UG

Uglygreen · 04-14-2003, 12:57 PM

UG

The Fishing Geek · 04-14-2003, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Uglygreen:
My opinion is that the United States is far more secure than it was a month ago.

Do you disagree with the premise that by driving tanks into downtown Baghdad the United States has thrown fuel into the fire which sparks anti-US terrorism?

Sea Nymph · 04-14-2003, 02:20 PM

i think they have thrown more water into the fire than fuel. the fire is still burning though. we may need to throw on some more water.

[ 04-14-2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Sea Nymph ]

Hoosier Daddy · 04-14-2003, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:
Do you disagree with the premise that by driving tanks into downtown Baghdad the United States has thrown fuel into the fire which sparks anti-US terrorism?

My .02, I agree that it might add to anti-US attitude, but I think there is now much more fear of the consequences of actually acting on that sentiment.
We can kiss everyones behind and someone is still going to hate us....whereas if we kick their behind they can hate us...quietly

The Fishing Geek · 04-14-2003, 02:33 PM

What kind of fear can you possibly strike into a person who is willing to strap explosives to their body and blow themselves up, in order to go to heaven where dozens of virgins await him?

As far as I can see, intimidation isn't going to work here.

Thumper · 04-14-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:
Do you disagree with the premise that by driving tanks into downtown Baghdad the United States has thrown fuel into the fire which sparks anti-US terrorism? [/QB]

I do disagree. I think we may not be more loved, but we are certainly more respected. Just watch how the thug in North Korea comes around.

God bless George Bush and his incredible team!

Hoosier Daddy · 04-14-2003, 03:08 PM

Geek, you certainly have reserved the right to say "I told you so". And so have the rest of us, time will tell....

Blowing yourself up to become a martyr and being tracked down and shot for helping other people do the same thing are two different issues. The dangerous characters aren't necessarily the ones pulling the trigger, but the guys inciting them to do so. Bin Laden hasn't strapped a bomb to himself as of yet.....right? But he also hasn't been implicated in any recent terrorism either, oh, wait, there really hasn't been much recent terrorism, hmm........

I know many disagree with this view, that's fine, you may be right, but that's my take on the whole thing. No, it's not nice, but that's life...

corrirod · 04-14-2003, 03:56 PM

Geek,

Quote:

What kind of fear can you possibly strike into a person who is willing to strap explosives to their body and blow themselves up, in order to go to heaven where dozens of virgins await him?

You're right, he's not afraid to die, but he might be a little more reluctant if he knows the rest of his family and friends will die when we start dropping bombs.

Last I checked we weren't winning any popularity contest before this started, what could it hurt now? I believe there is a huge number of "free" Iraqis that have no doubt changed sides now, don't you think?

1pump · 04-14-2003, 04:15 PM

Ignorance is bliss.
(Not directed at anyone, just stating the obvious.)

Thumper · 04-14-2003, 04:28 PM

Is ignorance anything like naivete? If so, be careful...... :grin:

Silver Hilton · 04-14-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thumper:
Is ignorance anything like naivete?

I think we have a little of both working. The Fox News fans have lost sight of the fact that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and prior terrorist incidents. Nothing. The invasion has done nothing to affect the terrorist forces out there, and has done everything to increase their zeal and motivation. Yeah, that improves our security. I call that ignorance.

Yet, irrationally and psychotically invading a country that is not a risk certainly has it's advantages. Just as everyone gave Saddam a wide berth because he could be counted on to react murderously, so, now, the countries of the world shall react to us. This has a significant positive effect, as shown by North Korea's reactions. It would be naive to discount the usefulness of a violent reputation.

But it's not anything to be proud of.

skein · 04-14-2003, 07:46 PM

Awww, hell. I just wrote three paragraphs and decided to quit rambling.

Thumper, I agree with you and Ugly Green 100%.

Skein

Thumper · 04-14-2003, 08:39 PM

You are a smart guy Skein!!!! :grin:

04-14-2003, 08:55 PM

SH,

Quote:

The Fox News fans have lost sight of the fact that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and prior terrorist incidents

Who is your source on this? We haven't even started going through the documents that are showing up.

Born to be Wild · 04-14-2003, 08:56 PM

Skein,

I agree with you and Thumper and Uglygreen, and Keta, Sea Nymph, Albecore Tuna Captain, Hoosier Daddy, and corridor.

Straydog · 04-14-2003, 09:03 PM

Thumper,

There is a big difference between fear and respect.

We may be more feared but I do not agree we are more respected.

Uglygreen · 04-14-2003, 09:12 PM

I would say it has everything to do with 9/11.

Terrorist organizations cannot effectivly exist without a safe harbor and support (covert or overt) from a nation state. With Iraq and Afganistan we have made prime examples of what can happen to those nations that are willing to support terrorism. Perhaps nations such as Syria and Iran and Saudi Arabia and North Korea and similar folks will think twice before following the path of the Taliban or Hussain. Or another example, how much trouble has Libya caused since Ronald Reagan sent him a little warning?

If we are smart enough to keep France and Russia and Germany out of the rebuilding process and tell them "tough luck" on their Iraqi financial problems perhaps they will think twice about investing in such people in the future?

I also agree with the previous thoughts of DepoeBayDan, Skein, Thumper, Uglygreen, Keta, Sea Nymph, Albecore Tuna Captain, Hoosier Daddy, Corrirod, Fox News, Donald Rumsfeld, Freddy Franks, and George Bush Jr.

UG

04-14-2003, 09:40 PM

UG,

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Peace through superior fire power and the knowledge of when and when not too use it.

crabbait · 04-14-2003, 10:21 PM

Look guys, we are not going to solve this here and this discussion and others like it will only lead to hard feelings, quick tempers, deleted posts, and more hard feelings.

I think it is time we left the politics off LIG for awhile. Those who think the Bush administration can do no wrong are going to think that until something bad happens. Those who think Bush et al can do no right will think that until nothing bad happens.

Lets agree to disagree and move on...while this board is still open.

I am not going to close this thread...yet...but I propose we move on.

1pump · 04-14-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

I also agree with the previous thoughts of DepoeBayDan, Skein, Thumper, Uglygreen, Keta, Sea Nymph, Albecore Tuna Captain, Hoosier Daddy, Corrirod, Fox News, Donald Rumsfeld, Freddy Franks, and George Bush Jr.

And who is Freddy Franks?? :whazzup: Do you mean Gen Tommy Franks?

The Fishing Geek · 04-15-2003, 06:07 AM

Here's a URL to Fred Franks.

Glad I could help.

Uglygreen · 04-15-2003, 06:20 AM

Yeah, that was the guy I was thinking of... But he goes by Freddy to his friends. :grin:

Thanks Geek!

UG

pdxkevin · 04-15-2003, 07:00 AM

People respect the law and the authority enforcing the law when they know it will be enforced. They don't respect the law nor the authority supposed to uphold it when they know it won't be enforced. Just recount first 'protests' in PDX a couple weeks ago.

You don't have to slam the heads of your coworkers into their monitors for all of them to straighten up, when the boss enforces the rules and fires (removes) the most flagrant.

crabbait · 04-15-2003, 07:07 AM

Thanks, Kevin. We have tried very hard not to have to remove anyone. Some people have a hard time getting the message.

Appreciate your support (and, no, I don't intend to slam anyones face into a console anytime soon.)

Hoosier Daddy · 04-15-2003, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pdxkevin:
People respect the law and the authority enforcing the law when they know it will be enforced. They don't respect the law nor the authority supposed to uphold it when they know it won't be enforced. Just recount first 'protests' in PDX a couple weeks ago.

You don't have to slam the heads of your coworkers into their monitors for all of them to straighten up, when the boss enforces the rules and fires (removes) the most flagrant.

Exactly. I think this illustrates the point I was getting at perfectly.

Big Dog · 04-15-2003, 02:05 PM

[ 04-15-2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Big Dog ]

feisty's wife · 04-17-2003, 01:15 AM

Silver Hilton, and all...within one month the "Free Iraquis" will be shooting our boys in the streets and screaming for us to leave their country, at a minimum. They hate us now, they will loathe us by then. The "Demonstration" of the Iraquis pulling the statue of Soddom H. was a put-on, attended by a very small, orchestrated crowd.