Mandatory reporting versus cultural awareness

[Kruechief]

I just found out that several 6th and 7th grade girls were being, at the very least sexually harassed, and I would say sexually assaulted at a local middle school. One of the girls is my next-door neighbor. My daughter is in the 5th grade and will be attending that school next year.

So, the girls, about 10 in number so far have made reports, were being their buttocks, breasts and crotches groped by three Mexican boys who attended the school.

The girls had been telling teacher(s) and finally the vice principal. He made a comment that it was a cultural difference and needed to be addressed as such. Eventually, the perpetrators groped a city police officer's daughter. So, what do you think happened then? The cops pull up to the school and arrest the boys.

I found out yesterday and last night there just happened to be an open house for next years 6th graders.

I cornered the principal and asked if there was unwritten policy that the district personnel were to sacrifice children’s' safety in the interest of cultural sensitivity? He bristled and began to get noticeably irritated. I told him that he could jump froggy if he wanted, but if the same thing had happened to my daughter there would be some serious ramifications for the teachers and admin who had failed to report the incident to child welfare, police and especially me. I then brought my daughter over and told her in front of him that if she is ever subjected to any type of abusive treatment or discipline that she is to call her mom and/or I immediately. She is not to talk to anyone there. Once again the principal tried to interject. I told him that he is better off to be called racist then to ever condone sexual misconduct or other abuse in the name of cultural sensitivity. At that time he tried to get all politically correct and caring.

I am writing a letter to the district today. I am going to lay down rules about how my daughter is to be treated while at school. This will include immediate notification of any disciplinary action before any questioning (no matter how slight). Also, I will include something regarding their responsibilities to provide a safe environment. Unfortunately, I can’t threaten their body and life like I would like. So, instead I will make it clear that a lawsuit will be the least of their worries.

When I get back to work, I am selling all my rigs ect...

and I am sending my kids to private school. I would rather drive a Pinto (no offense Geek ) then put my kids at risk in a system ran by …

Krue

[ 04-11-2003, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: kruechief ]

[Straydog]

What did the Principal tell you concerning the conduct of these boys? Did he try to defend them to you?
What was his response to the situation in your 'conversation' with him? I am wondering if you got his side of the story before asking the accusatory question or just jumped right straight down his throat? I wonder who wouldn't bristle when approached the way you described without an opportunity to share their side of the story?

Is leaving the district better than trying to change it? I guess it is, or you wouldn't have made that choice.

I am in no way condoning the acts of these boys or the alleged response by the school, however, I know a lot of us white boys did the same thing in 6th grade. :blush: At least until the PE teacher caught us and made it very clear that was unacceptable behavior. Most all boys of all cultures have these tendancies and some have been taught right from wrong and some havent. Heck, you might even find a horny kid or two in a private school!! :shocked: I also know there are usually two sides to a story and the side brought home by kids can sometimes be a bit inflated by the time it gets home. I also know that incompetent administrators do exist and can be eliminated if the will is there to do so.

Of course, in 1960 sexual harrasment hadn't been coined yet and it was passed off as a learning experience that boys go through. I guess it worked as niether I nor any of my friends continued the activity nor grew up to be sexual harrasers or assaulters or anything like that.

[ 04-11-2003, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[fish assassin]

WOW!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Would you be comfortable in revealing the school name so that other
parents/grand-parents could watch out to this type of unacceptable behaviour??

Edited to add this note: From experience, I can tell you (12 years of
private schools as a kid) that wierd things happen at private schools, too.
Sending a kid to a private school is no magic bullet (IMHO).

Thanks
-assAssin-

[ 04-11-2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: fish assassin ]

[The Fishing Geek]

It's a Pacer, thankyouverymuch.

Sexual harrassment should never be allowed for any reason, and it certainly isn't a cultural thang. Even if it was, I don't care if they are from Io, and on that moon they swat each other on the tush instead of shaking hands. You're on MY planet, and you play by MY rules for social-acceptance.

This information does need to be brought to the attention of the local police so that they have additional charges to lay on those boys, to the school board so that they know about the principal's lack of prior action, and to the local media. The whole thing, from the groping to the passive reaction by the principal, is not acceptable.

Why do italics lean to the right? That's so very wrong.

[fish assassin]

"Why do italics lean to the right? That's so very wrong."

Thanks, I just snorted coffee out thru my nose and all over my keyboard!!


-assAssin-

[Straydog]

Fish Assasin,

No, thank YOU!! I just did the same thing when I read your response!

[Kruechief]

TFG,

Eventually, the perpetrators groped a city police officer's daughter. So, what do you think happened then? The cops pull up to the school and arrest(ed) the boys.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">This was the problem from my point. Why did it take a cop’s daughter to get hurt to bring attention to this. It breaks my heart to think how frightened and violated these girls were.

SD,

I know a lot of us white boys did the same thing in 6th grade.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Uhh, not in Lebanon, Oregon. I mean, boys and girls in middle school may be experimenting and developing awareness. But going up to a girl forcing them into a wall and groping their ******, breasts, and buttocks was not done by any "white boys" at my school. First, of all, we as friends and fellow students would have treated the person to a trip down Vigilante Street. Heck, we had a new kid come named "Billy" that came into our school in the eighth grade (he was really a 10th grader just released from MaClaren) who smoked and beat up one of the smaller members of our football team. Don't get me wrong he was big and tough but when you got about four or five kids aiming kicks and punches about your face and body... counseling done. By the way the whole pack of Marlboros shoved in his mouth was just a reminder.

No, I disagree SD. This is not normal or tolerable. If it would have been my daughter someone, his family, or an administrator might have got hurt.

I hope that the principal is wise enough to comprehend the ramifications of not acting.

Krue

[crabbait]

Krue - Sometimes I am glad that the only parental role i play is to my dog!

Accepting this behavior as "cultural" is clearly wrong. While slapping the perps in cuff and hauling their little hinneys off to jail may be an overreaction, immediate and clear action should have been taken to educate the little horndogs as to where to keep their snot wipers!

Good luck, and don't sell your stuff until you quite having dreams of homicide.

[Kruechief]

CB,

Ah yes, but it is violent fantasy structuring, not dreams my friend! As, I am awake and plotting.
:grin:

Gee, all that State paid training paid off. :tongue:

Krue

[Straydog]

Krue,

No, we didn't force anyone into corners or against fences....... it was more like a game of tag but aiming for key areas. The PE teacher put the fear in us and we never did it again.

I am still wondering what the principal said to YOU. Not what the Vice Principal alledgedly said to to the kids.

I am also wondering where the parents of victims were? It's a good question in regards to why it took a cop's kid being involved to get something done. Were it my daughter, a large nordic man with balding hair and wild eyed aggression would have been dancing on a Superintendent's desk until satisfaction were achieved. You have seen no sense of fury as you would see if someone messed with my kid in this manner. I would not wait for it to come to the attention of anyone else, police or not. I gather that you understand that the responsiblity starts with the parents but what about the parents of these girls?

Also, again, please know that I understand this is not 1960 and our reactions to such things have changed, as they should have. Also know I am not condoning or passing this off lightly. I am just not reading that the school administration was given much chance for their side of the story and am disappointed that good people would choose to leave a district rather than fight to make it better, for all kids. You strike me more as person that would fight to make things better rather than go looking for what might or might not be better already.

BTW, I have relatives in Lebonan and have a good idea of how some folks up there conduct themselves. They are from the "other" branch of the family tree.

I doubt any place is immune from bad behaviour, even good ol' Lebanon.

[ 04-11-2003, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Kruechief]

Sure SD, I agree, moreover it is not 1977 either. :depressed:

I just feel that the agenda is so entrenched that it is easier to escape. Plus, in my business, one thing I know is that one bad incident can harm a child for life. But in today's society that is a small price to ensure that counselors, psychiatrists, and incompetent administrators have a job.

No, it is not worth my child's self-esteem and trust to be jeopardized. Also, I don't want to end up on the wrong side of the fence. :shocked:


SD,

What don’t you understand my friend about, ‘At that time he tried to get all politically correct and caring.” I know you know what that sounds like???

I mean specifically, he said all the pc things that work for these people 99% of the time. “The issues are being address, children are safe in our school, yada, yada, yada.”

I say, BS! He should have looked me in the eye and said, “Hey, if someone made a mistake they will be held accountable. Hey, right now we are setting up a task force to make these youth aware that this is intolerable. Hey, girls are being counseled that they are not responsible for these boys’ actions. Hey, we are making all personnel aware of their responsibilities as a mandatory reporter. Hey, if there is any retaliation by others towards these girls they will be arrested too. Hey, I got the backbone to stand up to whomever I have to, in order to ensure kids are safe.”

I like the straight line not the song and dance. Unfortunately, this man will realize that when he looks in the mirror and sees a Nike tread on his head where I stepped on him to get to the superintendent.

How do you get a superintendent fired?

Yours,

Krue

[Kruechief]

"Hey, could you loosen your grip on my throat?" :shocked:

Just kiddin'...

Krue

[crabbait]

So Krue, how did you really feel?? :grin:

[The Fishing Geek]

I just worry that if I was put into a similar situation with either of my kids that I would be concerned about how the kids would feel about visiting me in prison, after the rampage I would go on.

[Straydog]

Krue,

Gotcha, I didn't over look the part about what he said in front of your daughter. I am sure he was trying to reassure her as well. I was looking for the content and tone of the conversation between just the two of you.

Since you have given me what you would have liked to have heard, I will assume you did not hear that. I, like you would have expected something along the lines of what you wanted to hear. And, you should have heard that.

(Nike's??? wow, human rights and Nike in the same conversation........ how interesting?)

You get a Superintendant fired by recruiting like minded parents, teachers and administrators and mount a very tough public and private campaign to get them ousted. We did it in our district but it was a ton of work and energy by a group of very committed people. We were succesful but had to pay the person ousted too much of a settlement to get her gone. At least we didn't pay as much as we she tried to get.

The thing is, if we all roll over and say the status quo is too engrained to change, we can rest assured we will be proven correct. On the other hand, I certainly understand and admire your desire to protect your kids. It is ineed a tough assignment being a parent...not without it's just rewards, though!

Geek,

That is the sad reality of situations like these. We can't protect, nurture and love our kids too well from jail. :depressed:

[ 04-11-2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Gus Orviston]

Cultural...No way! That isn't cultural in anyway. Do you think it is okay in mexico for little girls to get grabbed? is so age is okay for doing the grabbing? I would be having some serious discussions with that principal and make it the focus of my efforts for long enough time to make him uncomfortable with that conclusion. Newspapers, news, PTA, school board, I would spread this far and wide as I possibly could. You want some picketers...I am sure you have some here!?

gus

[Hoosier Daddy]

TFG, I agree with you. I'm glad my daughter hasn't reached school age yet. Even though my wife was a teacher and I am somewhat familiar with schools, it scares the heck out of me to think about sending her to school, even if stuff like this isn't going on. The gap in "scariness" of life in general for a kid between my parents generation and mine was huge, and between my daughter and me it seems to be even greater.

I can't even express how angry I get when I think of someone doing anything to her.

[CATCH AND EAT]

And Birdnest has hit it on the head. Bammooooo!!! It is not "cultural". It is how the child is brought up by their parents or lack there of. They emulate what they see or are taught.

They watch MTV, Elimidate or other morally depraved shows which endorse this kind of behavior. Hummmmm...do they see the magazines that we read? You only need to go as far as "fishing and hunting news" to see "sex crave" advertised or "Maxima" fishing line. Great wholesome messages. These are very mild compared to what they are exposed to on TV.

Anyway, Krue you did what I would have done. confront the person in charge and hold them accountable. Good for you. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Kruechief]

CandE,

Not only did I do it here but I did it on the Columbia while with Lipripper and got a sweet nate!

"Use the Fickle Pickle"

Krue :grin:

[AuntyM]

KC, Not only did you do the right thing, I also think it was important for your daughter to see that no one, and I mean NO ONE should condone or excuse criminal behavior.

Children often perpetrate sex crimes on other children. Sex offenders don't always wait till they become adults to become predatory or use force.

Covering up for a crime like that is itself a crime. I think I would have filed a complaint immediately with local law enforcement, against the Principal, in addition to notifying the school district.

[Kruechief]

Aunty,

Did I ever tell you that I ran a juvenile sex offender unit for the State of Oregon for three years?

I refuse to wait and see I know the damage.

Loren

[Straydog]

I think Gus hits it on the head.

These folks really do not like the pubic scrutiny and the squeeky wheel really does get the grease. Be curteous (as difficult as that can be at times) but be tenacious, get support from like minded people and don't let it get passed over until the appropriate action occurs.

Do what you have to do to be heard. Call for a special meeting with the board and get as many parents as you can to show up and express their concern. Show up at the next school board meeting. Call the Superintendant every couple of days. Show up at the school unannounced, just to see how things are going.

If possible, get on the site council or whatever parent group is available and become involved in that manner.

Let them know you are watching and expect change. Remind them who pays their wages and what your expectations are for that. But also let them know you are willing to help out and be part of the good stuff that goes on at schools too.

Actually, flipping burgers for the boosters or chaparoning a field trip is a lot more fun than strangling principals or leaving sneaker marks on their adams apples. You haven't lived, nor learned to respect teachers as I have, until you have ridden up to the Oregon Caves with a bus load of 1st graders. Or visited a large Dairy Farm with about 60 second graders.

[AuntyM]

Go get em KC.

[True]

Cultural? I'd love to give that vice principal and principal a little taste of culture.

Krue, as a teacher that sees students eyeing each other like pieces of fresh meat (it goes both ways in many cultures, let me tell you) I would never use culture as an excuse. To tell you the truth, there is no excuse. Recently we had an incident where a young lady claimed that a young Hispanic male had touched her inappropriately. Well, the police were called, the parents were called, meetings were set and the young man spent a couple of weeks out of school. I talked to many of his friends and they said anything from, "He didn't do anything wrong" to "Yeah, he was out of line."

I would love to sit down and ask, face to face, both the vice principal and principal and ask them to detail what specifically it is in the culture that makes it "okay" for them to look the other way.

In the mean time you should let your daughter take some Tae Kwon Do or Karate classes so she will be able to properly defend herself when (not if) the time comes.

Yeah, there are some real prizes out there but then again we can't chalk this up to any one race. Unfortunately it happens in many cultures and societies. I'm not making excuses. I just want to make sure that we all see it wherever it happens.

True

No, really! Karate! Good stuff!

If it was one of my daughters the little darlings would have gotten a knee in the crotch and a bloody nose Go for it Kru.

[STGRule]

It has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with parenting. As a female that had some exposure to this behavior, I can tell you race had nothing to do with it.

May I respectfully request that you teach your children (male and female) the power of the word "no". While it may backfire on occasion when the darling says it to some adult that didn't deserve it, it will serve them well in most cases. Teach your babies that they are deserving of respect. They don't need to have a parent "save" them, although always reassure them you will if they want you to. Girls can use a lesson in "whacking" just like the boys. Just don't be disappointed when she chooses not to do it. And remember the most important part. She needs the tools to use for herself. She can't always hope somebody will be there to help her. Give her the confidence in herself and access to all the tools she needs. And in the end, be the parent who stands up and helps her.

[Kruechief]

My daughter is a Muay Tai kick boxer. She is a a 5'4" 120 pound fifth grader. She recently got her first level along with cracking her coach's ribs. He said he is salivating for her to turn twelve so she can compete.

She has been a member of a competitive gym for a year (Victory Gym here in Albany).

Curently, she spars with the teenage boys.

She likes it when they throw the power punches high :shocked: !

Krue

[Birdnest]

Cultural thing my foot. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas and I can safely defend against that theory.

Blame needs to be placed on the kids, their families, and the school district that enables this. I don't know when it happened, but we have become afraid of kids. (maybe it is their familes lawyers). I am only 34, but when I went to school, crap was not tolerated. We got paddled, yelled at, sent to our coach (God help us), and our parents called...we were deciplined. When did our school districts become such wennies?

My wife was working in a district that instead of telling a kid to "stop running", they had to say "walking feet". Give me a break. If you would have told me this when I was 11, I would have stopped running, only because I would have been on the ground laughing at you with no future plans of showing you any respect.

I am tired of this whole "kid glove, don't want to limit their creativity" approach to handling our youth. No wonder 11 year olds don't respect authority, they have never been introduced to the concept.

Birdnest