A Message to the Majority

[crabbait]

I would just like to say thank you to the vast majority of ifish members who post along, day in and day out, without the need for my services. You make ifish a special place just by respectfully expressing your thoughts and opinions and you are truly the majority. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I offer a special thank you to those who have taken the time to express support for the moderators and admin. I know it means a lot to Jennie and to all of us. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I would also like to recognize and applaud those of you who have been edited, have had posts deleted or have been sent reminders and have responded by making changes in the way that you post. I know that change is difficult and, in the majority of cases, trangressions are not intended. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong and to make an effort to understand and improve. Thank you. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I know that these have been tough times in the real and the virtual world. Hang in there. Things will get better.

[ 04-10-2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[The Fishing Geek]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Lucky Bamboo]

Well....I'll tell ya what!!! Last night, I sat down and wrote a long post about how IMPRESSED I am with the Ifish site, and those who run it and moderate it. #1. You uphold the Acceptable Use Policy to the max. This is unusual in this day and age when there is so much bad language, slander, and violence being used everywhere you turn. The vast majority of the Ifish members seem to be very intelligent, well educated, and precise people. The forums are a source of valuable information. Debates are welcomed if they are held within the Acceptable Use Policy, and not used as a vehicle for slander, intimidation, or insult. This is the first "chat, forum, message board, etc.," I have ever come upon that truly has Dignity. The efforts put forth in this web site have paid off, and you all have something to be extremely proud of!!

The reason I did not post my message last night was because I forgot to log out my husband, and I didn't want to post it on his name. I was too tired to retype the whole thing over again!! :blush:

[ 04-10-2003, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: Lucky Bamboo ]

[OceanBlue]

Lucky Bamboo... if that happens again, just copy and paste your post into Word, Wordpad, an Email or any other word processing application, log out, log back in again, then copy and paste it into your new post.

To the mods: Thank you so much for the services you provide and the harrassment you endure.

Jennie, Jennie, Jennie: No matter how much you hear about how much you're appreciated, know that it doesn't scratch the surface! Thanks for making this great place possible!

To all the fine folks on Ifish... See the post by Newbie entitled "Everyone on Ifish", my post entitled "I Quit!" and Cool Texan's post entitled, "I can feel it already..."

Ahhh... the love!

Thanks everyone! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[ 04-10-2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Pilar's Mate ]

[Pilar]

Crabbait, thanks for stating the what should be obvious to all.

There are a few that make for much work on the part of the moderators. The rest of you are no trouble at all and thank you all for that.

[Cool Texan]

Originally posted by Mojo:
I appreciate the UNPAID effort you all put out there for us all. Volunteering to take cheap shots just to keep this site a place we all can enjoy is beyond saintly. I also appreciate the corrections you all have made to my posts (including deleting one). I ain't perfect, I'll admit it, and I need a friendly reminder now and again.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Does that mean that if I make a donation I can call Geek names?? :shocked: :grin:

[crabbait]

No, that means if you don't make a donation geek will send his brother, Guido, over for a visit! :grin:

[Mojo]

I appreciate the UNPAID effort you all put out there for us all. Volunteering to take cheap shots just to keep this site a place we all can enjoy is beyond saintly. I also appreciate the corrections you all have made to my posts (including deleting one). I ain't perfect, I'll admit it, and I need a friendly reminder now and again.

[Silver Hilton]

Isn't that pronounced Geedo? :smile:

[Jennie@ifish]

I missed this thread! It does mean a lot to me, to hear nice things, and I want to say how much I appreciate the moderators.

We have decided now, that instead of disabling someone for infractions, they will serve terms of moderating the ifish board.

That will teach them! :smile:

Jen

[timinthegorge]

I agree with all above!

Let's start a new thread. If you appreciate Ifish, send $20 to....

Just to keep Jennie and the Mods doin' what they do sooo well.... :smile:

Anybody? My check will be in the mail tomorrow!

Tim

[DB_Cooper]

I just wanted to say that you folks do a great job. It's thankless volunteer work and it takes a certain type of individual to deal with the variety of issues that arise daily. I used to administer the largest financial IRC network on the web and along with the technical problems, the personal conflicts can be overwhelming sometimes. Job well done!

If your ever interested in setting up an IRC network drop me a note.

[The Fishing Geek]

IRC? Should I change my avatar to a "@"?

[Born to be Wild]

I would also like to recognize and applaud those of you who have been edited, have had posts deleted or have been sent reminders and have responded by making changes in the way that you post. I know that change is difficult and, in the majority of cases, trangressions are not intended. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong and to make an effort to understand and improve. Thank you.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Oh I would imagine I am one of them. Even though I disagree with you Crabbait and Geek on many issues and feel some of your moderating might lean a little biased to the left, I appreciate you guys and thank you for corrective moderating when I am out of line.

You guys do a good job moderating and are not paid to do it!

I for one appreciate you and am glad for some of your editing of my post.

Yep, me!
Thanks guys and thank you for such an awesome site Jennie.

Dopey Dan

[Miss B Haven]

I jsut wish I coud get sombody to eidt my typo's and correct my speling! :grin: [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/program.gif[/img]

[Jennie@ifish]

You are welcome!

But one thing... Speak with examples to back you up, Dan.

Show me one case of the mods moderating to the left.

I'm waiting... :smile:

Jen

[ 04-14-2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Born to be Wild]

Oh Jennie, I'm not worried about it and as I said, " might lean a little". Just kind of a "gut feeling" kind of thing. Seemed there was some real radical left wing post in the past that were appalling to myself and others and they weren't edited or deleted. But maybe technically that wasn't breaking the rules. Actually the post (plural) in question were well beyond left wing. I do know when post like them have been posted on Oregonian Live Wildtalk, they were deleted.

Anyway, no big deal and I believe this was discussed a while back on another thread. As I said, I feel the mod’s do an excellent job and every email I have received from them was very professional. I think they deserve thanks and a pat on the back and hope to meet them all some day.

As soon as I lick this alcohol problem, I’ll quit being a thorn to them. Maybe starting as of tomorrow.

Dan

[ 04-14-2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]

[Jennie@ifish]

I really want to see an example, since I have seen this accusation before.
I think that all of us, no matter how "left" we may seem want to be caught doing it, so we can see what you are talking about.
None of us want to moderate with our opinion, and if it happens, we all want to fix it.
Jen

[Thumper]

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:
I really want to see an example, since I have seen this accusation before.
I think that all of us, no matter how "left" we may seem want to be caught doing it, so we can see what you are talking about.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well .... for example, just this morning Crabbait is "proposing" (yeah, right) that two topics regarding the Iraq conflict be ended here on LIG. Seems there is an honest difference of opinion among the posters, none of whom have even been accused of violating any of the terms of agreement. Several of us on the right have voiced our support for the war and our president, and Crabbait (who posted his different opinion on the subject earlier) now just thinks it would be best not to talk about politics any more on LIG.

Specifically, He states:

"I think it is time we left the politics off LIG for awhile ... Lets agree to disagree and move on...while this board is still open. I am not going to close this thread...yet...but I propose we move on."

That is content control, and the threat is subtle but clear --- keep on posting about politics and we may lose this board. Even though no one has violated the rules. The power of the moderator is again projected on the rest of us.

Controlling content is the issue. The left-leaning posters, who are also moderators, do indeed control content as Crabbait has just so clearly shown us, and that is too bad. You asked for an example.

It would be so simple if the moderators, who are judge and jury on Ifish, would simply abstain from posting on topics where they control the delete button. I don't understand how you can engage in a discussion while crunching (or threatening to crunch) the other guy. Is that unreasonable?

[ 04-15-2003, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

[Straydog]

I read CB's post to say both sides could get crunched, not one or the other.

I do understand your feelings about moderator's posting however, I am not willing to submit that they should volunteer to monitor the board and at the same time be denied the ability to interact. That seems highly unfair to ask that of a volunteer.

[fish assassin]

First, a big THANKS to all who work at/for Ifish for making it so
much fun to read!!

Second, DepoeBayDan:
Hey man, lighten up! Not everything is either black OR white ...
not everything is either left or right!!
If we all try harder to get along,
maybe then we could have a group hug and a song!!!
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

OK, I'm feeling a little squirelly this morning ... don't mine me!!
And whatever you do, so NOT pay any attention to the man behind the
curtain!

-assAssin-

[crabbait]

Ok, Thumper, now you have me angry. Lets take this "post" of yours apart piece by stinking piece:

First, I don't decide whether LIG stays open or closes. I only make suggestions as to the running of the forum. That goes for disabling folks, too. These decisions are made with input from all the mods and are ultimately Jennie's. The "power of the mod" as you put it is highly overrated.

Now, lets look at exactly what I said:
"Look guys, we are not going to solve this here and this discussion and others like it will only lead to hard feelings, quick tempers, deleted posts, and more hard feelings." (This statement is based on what I have seen so far and is neither right nor left, I am just saying that these arguements are not getting anyone anywhere except angry. Not so?)

"I think it is time we left the politics off LIG for awhile. Those who think the Bush administration can do no wrong are going to think that until something bad happens. Those who think Bush et al can do no right will think that until nothing bad happens." (How is this either right or left? I used almost the exact words to describe the thoughts of both sides?)

"Lets agree to disagree and move on...while this board is still open." (Again, I don't make that decision but closing LIG has been discussed both publically and privately. In fact, Jennie closed it for awhile because of the pointless bickering that these discussions turn into. What I am trying to do is keep the board open, not push my political agenda on anyone.)

"I am not going to close this thread...yet...but I propose we move on." (I would not close this thread without the consensus of other moderators but why would this thread be closed? Because people have demonstrated that they cannot disagree on these threads without trying to inflame, disrespecting each other and name calling. It gets us nowhere except divided. I am simply asking that we move on to something else so how is this left or right???)

My goal is not to "control the content" (except for the content that is not in keeping with the AUP). My goal is to keep the peace and to keep the board open. Neither side is "winning" anything here. The righties ar still right and the lefties are still left and nobody is meeting in the middle. Ultimatly, we all end up losers as we lose respect for one another.

Nuff said and, man, am I biting my tongue.

[Thumper]

Struck a nerve, eh?

Jennie asked for an example, and I provided one without rancor or bad temper. Sorry you are all upset about it.

[ 04-15-2003, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Thumper ]

[fish assassin]

SOMEBODY needs to close this thread (IMHO) ... it's degraded into
another of those "I'm right, you're wrong, Left vs Right, I don't like
the moderators ..." whine fest. And it started out on such a good note!

All in favor of closing the thread say "AYE" ...

-assAssin- (going away from LIG for awhile!)

[Straydog]

I say just eliminate the trouble the makers.

You, the other moderators and they know who they are.

Thump a few off the board and maybe others will start to get it. Some seem intent on causing trouble. We don't need that.

I am not in favor of closing the thread. I am in favor of monitoring as the rules state.

"Struck a nerve" comments are meant to inflame. Period. Delete the post, eliminate the poster.
End of problem.

[ 04-15-2003, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Thumper]

I will be happy to depart the LIG board if Jennie feels that my presence is detrimental and advises me of that by e-mail. No hard feelings. I want to contribute, not tear things down for the others.

[crabbait]

Clearly shows how biased you are, Thumper.

For the record, I only posted one reply on one of the three threads that I posted this message to, so your suggestion that mods not post to threads that they moderate was largely complied with. Also for the record, two of the three threads were started by and largely posted to, by the left!

I don't need to throw sand in your face. You are doing a fine job of demonstrating your one-sided opinion.

[ 04-15-2003, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[Straydog]

"(yeah, right)"
"Struck a nerve, eh?"

How does that contribute?

[ 04-15-2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[OceanBlue]

Originally posted by fish assassin:
First, a big THANKS to all who work at/for Ifish for making it so
much fun to read!!

Second, DepoeBayDan:
Hey man, lighten up! Not everything is either black OR white ...
not everything is either left or right!!
If we all try harder to get along,
maybe then we could have a group hug and a song!!!
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

OK, I'm feeling a little squirelly this morning ... don't mine me!!
And whatever you do, so NOT pay any attention to the man behind the
curtain!

-assAssin-

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

If I agree with the statement "Not everything is either black OR white ...
not everything is either left or right!!" Does that mean I lean right? Or does it mean I lean left?

This is ridiculous guys!

[ 04-15-2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Pilar's Mate ]

[GutshotApe]

Originally posted by crabbait:
Lets take this "post" of yours apart piece by stinking piece:

......this discussion and others like it will only lead to hard feelings, quick tempers, deleted posts, and more hard feelings.....I think it is time we left the politics off LIG for awhile.....Lets agree to disagree and move on...while this board is still open....

I am not going to close this thread...yet...

My goal is not to "control the content" here....The righties ar still right and the lefties are still left and nobody is meeting in the middle. Ultimatly, we all end up losers as we lose respect for one another.

.....biting my tongue.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">"...piece by stinking piece"??? AUP violation?

How can anybody seriously threaten to close a topic then in the next sentence say he isn't trying to control content???

I'm wasting significantly less time on Ifish these days. If LIG gets any more bland I'll need to develop a new hobby. :depressed:

[Jennie@ifish]

Thumper? How could you possibly take "Let's agree to disagree and move on?" to be one sided?

HELP?

Politics and religion divide people. I don't want that, and neither does Crabbait. If that makes us left, then I am very glad to be!
I'd rather be left, then left out! :smile:

Moderating IS controlling content, and we need control over this board, since some people have none, personally.

Thumper, I don't believe you are being fair in this instance. Crabbait is working overtime to keep the peace, and you seem to just want to throw it all in his face.

Why?

Jen

[ 04-15-2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[OceanBlue]

Anybody notice that LIG is kind of like passing a bad accident or roadkill? No matter how much you really don't want to see it, you just can't NOT look.

[Jennie@ifish]

GSA,
I can lead you to places other than ifish for what you seem to want out of it.
What you want is not what I want, so it doesn't hurt me little feelings one bit.
Ifish is about fishing.
This forum is turning into bad garbage.
You can find it all over the net! Want some links?

LIG is for non related fishing posts. It's not about what this has turned into.

Jen

[Thumper]

Jennie --- You specifically requested that we give you an example of the moderating bias. I did so, without anger. Is that not what you wanted?

[24 on/ 48 off]

This is a fishing forum.

Toss out the LIG. It is obviously a royal pain.

--spud-- :smile:

[Jennie@ifish]

Yes, I wanted an example.
I just can't see how Crabbait asking that both sides refrain is an example.
Hit me over the head or something, Thumper, but I just don't see it!
He asked that we keep the peace.

If peace is only a leftist option, then I would see it, but I doubt that the case.

He didn't say, "Shut up all you right wingers!" He asked that EVERYONE cease.

???

I fail to see an example, and I do think I am intelligent enough to see it, should it be there.

Jen

[GutshotApe]

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:
GSA,
I can lead you to places other than ifish for what you seem to want out of it.
What you want is not what I want, so it doesn't hurt me little feelings one bit.
Ifish is about fishing.
This forum is turning into bad garbage.
You can find it all over the net! Want some links?

LIG is for non related fishing posts. It's not about what this has turned into.

Jen

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Jennie - I like Ifish and and enjoy the political discussions on LIG...even though "nothing is ever settled". Good info is made available and I suspect it adds to our general knowledge.

I don't want links to other websites. This is my first "chatroom" and will be my last. The participants, most of 'em anyway, like to fish & hunt first & foremost...and we all have political interests whether we realize it or not.

War & peace aren't directly fishing related BUT we are going thru a very momentous time in our nation;s history...seems a little unreasonable to expect the war won't be discussed.

I don't think this forum is "bad garbage" or a cess pool.

Whatever...its your site Jennie.

But if you dump LIG or completely santitize it, you need to change the Ifish ad you're currently running i.e. page 14 of spring 2003 edition of Northwest Steelheader. In the ad the 2nd bullet point says "Stay up to date on hot topics and political issues". What does this mean??? :whazzup:

[Pete]

Political issues like "ODFW budget" ... LiG was created as a place to for the non-fishing related topics that were increasingly showing up on the main board. Things like birthdays, new jobs, help finding the right car. It wasn't created as a place for people to find out how irreconcilable their political views are. It was a place to share Life events that weren't necessarily fishing related.

[WheresMyBobber]

Yeah, what Pete said. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Please don't let a few people force the closure of this board.

Again - thanks to the Mods for their efforts to keep LIG going in the right direction.

[Cool Texan]

Someone clarify for me...cuz I've never been able to remember this.

Left?
Right?

Which is which? Legitimate question here....I always get them confused.

In the end though, it matters little in my life. I call myself a "Republican", but will vote for the best all around candidate, which often means a Democrat. I guess I'll just stick to the lable of "American". :smile:

[Jennie@ifish]

Yeah, it's a fishing site, GSA, not a political site.
I am very sad about today. This could have been such a great addition to ifish.
I like to read about the war, and how people feel.
I don't mind that people think differently than me, and I learn from it, also.

It's just that I don't like it when other people have to use 'ad hominems' or name calling to make their point. Attack the point of view, not the person.

I respect how strongly some people feel about their views. But in order to run this board, and to keep my sanity, I need people to quit being so inflexable, and take a minute to listen to other people without trying to jam their views down other people's throats! It almost always causes reflux, at least, it does in me.

I listen a lot better, and am more in tuned to seeing someone elses point of view, if they approach me in a way that I learn.

Anyway, I'd like ifish to be everything it can be. It's just that this is taking so many sour turns, and it's difficult to moderate, and keep people's feelings at bay.

I really do care about each and every member, and how they feel, no matter how mad they make me.

Do understand that when someone sends me an angry letter about how they don't think ifish is fair, or the moderators are unfair, that that letter and those thoughts are always deeply considered.

Perhaps that is why I have an ulcer.

Jen

[DanS]

You specifically requested that we give you an example of the moderating bias. I did so, without anger.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">No, you didn't. Where's the bias?

[Big Dog]

Hey Geek that did not help.

Hey Jen this is a great site I am am on here evey day.

I don't think that what Jen is asking for is to much. Debate back and forth, be forcefull about your view just refrain from name calling.

Does not seem like to much to ask for.


Bog Dog

[Born to be Wild]

I know that these have been tough times in the real and the virtual world. Hang in there. Things will get better. [Crabbait]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">

I respect how strongly some people feel about their views. [Jennie]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">

Politics and religion divide people. I don't want that, and neither does Crabbait. [Jennie]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well, I think this pretty much summarizes the problem. Some people do feel strongly about their views. Politics and religion do divide people. These have been tough times in the real and the virtual world.

It's just that I don't like it when other people have to use 'ad hominems' or name calling to make their point. Attack the point of view, not the person. [Jennie]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">That’s a tuff one when someone assaults your strong political views or convictions. Just take a look at some of our Senators. Dashell and Kerry come to mind. I’ve seen some pretty heated debates on Fox News including last night and other stations in the past. I’ve heard of some pretty heated anti-war protest.

Politics is a tough one. During war time, even tougher!

[STGRule]

DBD: Were they debating or calling each other names? If we could learn the difference between the two, we would all have less trouble. I think that is the decisive element. When somebody questions our strong convictions and beliefs, how do we react? With why we have those convictions and beliefs or with a question about the person's ________ (fill in the blank).
If we started more sentences with "I believe...." or "This is why I....." and never, ever started it with "You.....", we would be having very few " moderator moments ".

[Jennie@ifish]

Not only that, but I've read some really nasty debates on other web sites, too.
They happen. But they aren't going to happen on ifish.
End of story.

Jen

[Degner]

We should have equal ease at refraining from personal attacks as we have not blowing them out of perportion.

[Uglygreen]

I, for one, took crabbaits post on the three political threads this morning the same way thumper did. I didn't comment on it at the time because I suspected the reaction would be the one thumper got.

This is the third (or fourth) time that this has come up with different people. Wheather the administration wants to admit it or not there is at the very least the perception of political bias on the part of the moderators by more than one Ifish member.

My wish would be that the moderators stick to the rules created. I just reread the AUP and the recent "clarification" of the AUP again (for the umteenth time) and dont see where or how anything on any of those three threads even approached a violation or needed moderation.

If there was a violation please point it out specifically so I and others can see it. If there was not a violation, please explain why the threats to close the thread?

Finally, Im confused. Are politics currently acceptable in here, or are they off limits?

UG

[Jennie@ifish]

This is nearing hysterical.

Guys, this is the deal. Always has been, always will be, unless this goes too far!--

Politics, so far are OK, just banish the personal insults!!!

Is it possible? If not, I close the political shop!

Pretty simple!

I have spent most of my day rehashing this with people. I don't want to do that.

I have though about a "No moderation" in this board, but that wouldn't last long.

I spend my day reviewing whistle alerts, along with the other mods.

Let's do a little self moderation, OK?

:smile:

[ 04-15-2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Uglygreen]

Except that its not simple. Where was the personal insult or other AUP violation in any of those three topics that crabbait felt the need to moderate this morning?

Im not trying to be difficult, perhaps Im just too stupid to understand the rules?

[img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

UG

[Pete]

You're right UG, moderating isn't simple. There's so much variation in human motives and behavior that no set of rules can anticipate what people might come up with. Moderators have to use judgement, common sense, discretion, an understanding of posting history and individual character to keep things on track ... that's why it's "moderating", not merely enforcing. The objective is to maintain a friendly, useful, vibrant discussion of fishing and related topics and to be fair and reasonably impartial in doing it. Moderators have the discretion to pull the plug on a thread that ceases to be useful, friendly or informative.

[STGRule]

Yes, it is that simple. Leave off. Nothing is being accomplished. Nothing anybody can possibly say will make everybody happy. Pretend this is Iraq and President Jennie has just thumped us. She is leaving the governing to us and we decided we will play by President Jennies rules. We will rebuild and be a better Nation (board) for it. If its good enough for them, it is good enough for us.

[ 04-15-2003, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[Jennie@ifish]

Cool!!! Can I play with the MOABs????


TOO FUN!

KABLOOOOOOOOOOOOEY!!!!!!!!!! BASH BAM CRASH!!!!!!!!

[STGRule]

My dear-owner-of-the-board? You may play with anything you like. Its all yours.

[crabbait]

Consider this: You read the posts you want, when you want to. We get to read all of them and, some, several times whenever someone posts to the thread questioning something that someone has said or when we are "whistled" to look at a thread.

The three threads I posted to this morning were all within the AUP, to the best of my knowledge. They were also so similar to other threads that I have read and re-read recently that I felt I had a pretty good idea where they were going. Nowhere good.

Read my post in those three thread (any one, they are all the same). I did not threaten. I gave my opinion (you can tell it is my opinion because the sentence starts with "I think"). Then I made a suggestion (you can tell it is a suggestion because it says "I propose").

I did not close the threads or threaten to close the threads. I said, "I will leave these open for now" and they have remained open because there has been no violation of the AUP as far as I know. I was trying to keep the discussion civil and hoping that folks would leave it alone for awhile in favor of a little peace and harmony, hence, my suggestion (silly me).

I regret that so many took this as threatening and over moderating. I don't feel responsible for their opinion as I made no threats and edited/deleted nothing.

Some of you amaze me. Why are people arguing so heatedly in favor of bickering and name calling? It is beyond me.

[ 04-15-2003, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[The Fishing Geek]

It was posted by someone with an opinion; therefore, it was biased.

Glad to help.

[Jennie@ifish]

Amen, brother.

Jen

[Uglygreen]

Crabbait -

The only reason I am even having this discussion is that you once told me: "No problem, I have a hide thick as a rhino, nothing will offend me", or something similar.

Please understand this and take it for what its worth and in the spirit in which it is intended.

I understand your first point about having to read and reread the same things over and over while folks like me can drop in and out of the converstation as we please. I can sympathize that in your shoes as a moderator that must get really old sometimes.

On the other hand, please take a little time to consider your post from an outsider looking in point of view. In your post there is, at the very least, an implied threat to close those specific threads or close LIG in general. I can see no other way to take the following quote.

Lets agree to disagree and move on...while this board is still open.

I am not going to close this thread...yet...but I propose we move on.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">.

All three of those threads were leaning and/or leading away from your stated personal political views. Several similar previous threads have been locked or deleated in a similar manner by the mod squad. Several impression(s) have been created among at least some signifigant percentage of the Ifish usership because of this.

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The first impression created is that the moderation is biased. No matter how good the intentions of the moderator were, for practical purposes people with political views different than the ifish leadership are not allowed to express those views as fully as those agree with said leadership. Or at least that is the impression created by the actions and editorial comments of the moderators.

The second impression is that the "rules" / AUP are kind of like a moving target. Its not a matter of people arguing heatedly in favor of bickering and name calling. People want to be able to express their views without the percieved political censorship on the part of the mod squad. The moderators / administration have created a framework for the discussion (the AUP) and the impression is that even if one is very carefull to remain within that framework their closly held views and personal beliefs are subject to censorship based on the whim of the moderator rather than the rules of the AUP.

The third impression is that the moderators have to have the last word, right, wrong, or otherwise. The perception on the part of some of the membership is that at least some of the moderators are on a sort of "power trip". The impression is that moderators sometimes use the "power" of their position in a self serving way. Locking threads and then unlocking them to add comments, then relocking them, etc.

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I know of several people who think this, and because of it you are losing members who have in the past and would in the future continue to participate in a productive way. I offer the following in a hopefully constructive way. If you lose the loyal opposition, Ifish will fast become a boring place where only few will participate in any meaningful sort of way. I would hate to see that happen. If ifish becomes a bland and boring mutual admiration society you limit its potential.

I understand the moderators have to stick togther, but weather you can see it or not, you have a problem here. Its not just one voice or one person. It comes up again and again, and there is a reason that happens. Maybe its real, maybe not. The perception is real, and in a place like this, that matters. I hope you listen to some of those voices.

UG

[ 04-16-2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Worm-N-ator]

UG-- [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Well said!! I couldn't agree more.

[Kruechief]

Does it seem like there is less activity on this site lately?

Could be that the fishing is good?

Krue