A new beginning in LIG

El Shaddai · 04-08-2003, 08:47 AM

Seems as if the winds of change are blowing.....I applaud the idea. I have been reading this board for quite some time and it seems as if the same "behavioral" issues have always existed.

Interesting timing on the change.......but it will definitely level the playing field.

Kruechief · 04-08-2003, 08:52 AM

What have you heard?

Is Boedy a moderator now?

Krue :grin:

El Shaddai · 04-08-2003, 09:10 AM

kruechief- I have read the same posts regarding our new beginning that you have...I think it's great...I am looking forward to a new forum where new people can post without being intimidated and regular posters will stay on track.......though I must say the timing is interesting.......

Cool Texan · 04-08-2003, 09:11 AM

The iFish Patriot Act has started. :shocked: :grin:

Add me to the list of people who applaud the "new beginning" on here. Its about time.

The Fishing Geek · 04-08-2003, 09:19 AM

There is no intended timing in the situation, other than crabbait and I were getting tired of having to edit all those posts.

From the beginning, we wanted a LIG forum that people could come to without having to worry about personal attacks. We will have that forum.

04-08-2003, 09:34 AM

Thumper,
Right on.
Mr. heavy left foot needs to have his moderation monitored.

That was quick Geek. Didn't take you long to quiet criticism!

[ 04-08-2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Thumper · 04-08-2003, 09:39 AM

Keta --- my last post lasted about 90 seconds. You gotta admit, the Geek is quick!

Cool Texan · 04-08-2003, 10:04 AM

Keta and Thump, if you are routinely being edited or removed, it seems to me that perhaps you should adjust your approach on how you make your points. Continuing the personal jabs is not constructive and just wastes the mod's time. Lets just drop it all and move on in an adult fashion discussion Life and other In General things.

Kruechief · 04-08-2003, 10:09 AM

ES:

Is humor acceptable or it considered a sign of a feeble and unworthy mind?

IMHO, if pompous piety wins arguments and influences others then I would rather fish with my dog.

I think I just took a step left towards the middle.

Krue

fish assassin · 04-08-2003, 12:37 PM

Kruechief,

THAT'S SICK!! ... No wait, I mean, YOU'RE sick ...
I mean you're not feeling well and ...

Somebody take this shovel away from me!! I'm digging myself deeper
and deeper by the moment!!

Here's to hoping that you feel better soon!!

-assAssin-

OceanBlue · 04-08-2003, 12:38 PM

Can't we all just get along? If this board gets one so fired up that one can't be civil, then my suggestion is that one either needs to get one's medication changed (it's a joke, I'm not referring to anybody) or stay away from the board.

It's getting unpleasant to visit here. That's a bummer. It's always the same old faces arguing "lefty", "righty"... yada yada. I like both of my hands and don't want either one of them to be jabbed at, thank you.

Just be nice, dang it!

I'll step down from the hood of my truck now. Thanks for listening.

Thumper · 04-08-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crabbait:
If your posts don't last longer than 90 seconds then it probably won't be long until they don't make it up at all. Clear?

Perhaps it is just the attitude of the moderators that I find offensive. Pretty tough guys! Ban away!

Cool Texan · 04-08-2003, 01:15 PM

Thumper, this thread is supposed to be a celebration that we're going to be moving past the defensiveness and jabs. Join in the hug-circle brother, for today is a new today and tomorrow promises to be even better.

crabbait · 04-08-2003, 11:03 PM

Krue - I thought it was funny. I can just see the mods trying to reach consensus with Boedy for balance.

Thumper and Keta - Challenging the mods is not kosher and you know it. If you want an explanation of action taken then please ask for it via e-mail or private message.

If your posts don't last longer than 90 seconds then it probably won't be long until they don't make it up at all. Clear?

People, including the moderators, will be treated with respect. This is not open for debate.

04-08-2003, 11:11 PM

CB,
Doesn't work

especialy with the new boy.
There was nothing wrong with Thumpers deleted post. Go ahead and kick people off the board, then you can have total control of thought here.

Put up a poll.

[ 04-08-2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Kruechief · 04-08-2003, 11:12 PM

CB,

Do you ever look at the world and wonder if each of us will eventually have to have some sort of interpreter/advocate to ensure that every communication we make is pc and generally endorsed?

Sorry, I got a cold today and I have been invited on three different fishing trips. :depressed:

Can you believe I am actually too sick to fish? I mean I would show up for work with an appendage hanging off just so I could save my sick time for... you know more important stuff. :grin:

Krue :whazzup:

04-08-2003, 11:24 PM

Wow all this controversy and I'm not involved....

The way I see it is this website belongs to Jennie and since Jennie owns the website then Jennie can run it as she sees fits!
You don't like the rules here? Then maybe you would be happier somewhere else :shocked: It's just that simple. Since when does the crowd get to choose who moderates or the content of this forum?
I'll tell you one thing though it's the best board to be on IMHO and if you leave because of petty disagreements you're going to miss it.

crabbait · 04-08-2003, 11:28 PM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

corrirod · 04-08-2003, 11:34 PM

[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Sorry, I was just talking to myself. Carry on.

Kruechief · 04-09-2003, 07:53 AM

Didn't someone recently do a whole thread on the First Amendment?

I am not implying that the 1st Amendment applies on a private site.

I only noticed the apparent contradiction of philosophy. :whazzup:

IMHO, I believe that there are many members here that would be sorely missed if they decided to go elsewhere. I know that I would miss them.

I still consider this my online family. Of course, one has to remember that I grew up with eight kids in my family. Arguing was a fact of life but so was coming together and putting our differences aside, if only in order to attack someone else. :grin:

My older sisters could thump me twice a day but pity the fool who put hands on me at school or in the neighborhood.

We disagree, we argue, we move on, cut bait, and go fishing. :smile:

Krue

CATCH AND EAT · 04-09-2003, 08:03 AM

and more of the same

So much for that.

Cool Texan · 04-09-2003, 08:05 AM

Discussions/debates are healthy, if conducted in an adult manner. Unfortunately, a lot of the heated discussion points seem to go downhill quickly, which is sad.

crabbait · 04-09-2003, 09:49 AM

Debate, disagree, argue but do it with respect....as if we cared about each other.

We cannot see body language or voice inflection on the internet. Give some room to navigate.

04-09-2003, 09:56 AM

Yeah Krue I did post a thread about the 1st Amendment because some people here think it would be perfectly fine to forbid people from lawfully protesting the war.So what does that have to do with the way this forum is run?
We are all using this forum because Jennie pays for it and allows us too. The money, except for a few donations, comes from her hard work! So my point is if you don't like the way she runs it then ask for a refun...oh yeah

I just remembered Ifish is free isn't it?

I would again suggest anyone who doesn't like it here go somewhere else.

Thumper · 04-09-2003, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stew:
Yeah Krue I did post a thread about the 1st Amendment because some people here think it would be perfectly fine to forbid people from lawfully protesting the war.

"Lawfully" is the operative word. If they block traffic or otherwise interfere with the rights of others, they should go to jail.

Sea Nymph · 04-09-2003, 03:59 PM

So basically, Life in General A new beginning will be Life in General but with more rules?

Ya'll are gonna need several more moderators just to keep up with the editing and deleting....

SN

Sea Nymph · 04-09-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thumper:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Stew:
Yeah Krue I did post a thread about the 1st Amendment because some people here think it would be perfectly fine to forbid people from lawfully protesting the war.

"Lawfully" is the operative word. If they block traffic or otherwise interfere with the rights of others, they should go to jail. <hr /></blockquote>And after jail, they should pay for damages and compensation for any lost business and medical issues that were delayed because of blocked roads.

SN

crabbait · 04-09-2003, 06:38 PM

Sea Nymph - Several more moderators is not an option. The moderators continuously editing the same members is not an option either.

Can you think of any other changes that might accomplish the goal? :smile:

[ 04-09-2003, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

04-09-2003, 06:59 PM

Geez! Lawfullly means just that! Within the law or not breaking the law. Do I need to make it any clearer than that?
I wish Jennie would just pull the plug on this board for awhile [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

Sea Nymph · 04-09-2003, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crabbait:
Sea Nymph - Several more moderators is not an option. The moderators continuously editing the same members is not an option either.

Can you think of any other changes that might accomplish the goal? :smile:

gee, i dunno. so many things here are not an option, ya'll may be runnin out of options.

SN

Sea Nymph · 04-09-2003, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stew:
I wish Jennie would just pull the plug on this board for awhile [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

This coming from someone who just a few posts up said "I would again suggest anyone who doesn't like it here go somewhere else".

steelhead_fishn · 04-09-2003, 08:02 PM

"Posts to Inflame: If you post something that is intended, or appears to intended, to anger a person or group of persons you are posting outside the acceptable use policy."

This is quite possibly the most oppressive and just plain stupid rule I have ever encountered on a BB.

I'm a long time member of the internet community, and a long time member of ifish. The true value of the internet is the ability to express your opinion to groups who both agree, and disagree. When I post something controversial of course it is going to anger some groups. Now I will be banned for that...

Good work guys, from here on out any form of opinion should be considered inflamatory.

Jeff

The Fishing Geek · 04-09-2003, 08:35 PM

Kruechief · 04-09-2003, 08:45 PM

"How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?"

"Yes, and yada yada yada some cannonballs fly,

Something yada yada in the sand?"

"The answer is blowing in the wind"

Thank you, Thank you,

Instead of supporting my luxurious lifestyle please send the money to ifish...

thank you, thank you very much...

The Krue

crabbait · 04-09-2003, 08:46 PM

Luthian - This is a direct quote from the acceptable use policy that has always been in place:

"Inflammatory posts are not permitted. A post, or statement in a post, which serves only to fire up negative emotions or generate anger will be considered inflammatory and will be edited or deleted at the discretion of the moderators. Multiple offenses of this nature will result in banning."

As you can see, inflamatory posts have always been unacceptable. Nothing has changed except that we have actively brought the rules to folks attention.

Also for the record, the vast majority of members never have a problem posting within the guidelines.

If you find the acceptable use policy impossible to abide by then you will be shown the double doors.

crabbait · 04-09-2003, 08:48 PM

Krue, you are on a roll, my brother. :grin:

Thanks, I needed that.

Straydog · 04-09-2003, 08:51 PM

Krue,

Two questions.............. did you catch any fish and how much non drowsey nyquil must one drink to catch the buzz you seem to have caught?!?! :grin:

(OOhh..... I just rememberd the brandy [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] !)

Kruechief · 04-09-2003, 08:54 PM

CB, SD,

The rerigged sled "Re-Pete" worked flawlessly today in the BIG CURRENT :shocked: of the Santiam. Do you remember the sled we got off Ebay from "Pete's" widow? Anyway today was its 2nd voyage and she worked sweet. The 200hp Merc was shoving that 18' VS up river like a rocket sled. The little 6hp kicker held us against the current and we were able to actually run some plugs. But man the Santiam was kickin' :shocked: :shocked:

Anyway, no blood in the boat but it was agreat day anyway.

Got me out of the house, smoked a big fat cigar and a couple of pulls of Brandy and I feel... well ok. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Yours,

Krue

[ 04-09-2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: kruechief ]

lost_sailor · 04-09-2003, 09:31 PM

"How many times can a man look up before he can see the sky?

How many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?

And how many deaths will it take 'til he knows that too many people have died?"

Yada?

Kruechief · 04-09-2003, 09:42 PM

Bob Dylan
Non Album Tracks
Blowing In The Wind

How many roads must a man walk down
Before they call him a man
How many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand
How many times must the cannonballs fly
Before they are forever banned
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind
The answer is blowing in the wind

How many years must a mountain exist
Before it is washed to the sea
How many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free
How many times can a man turn his head
And pretend that he just don't see
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind
The answer is blowing in the wind

How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky
How many years must one man have
Before he can hear people cry
How many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind
The answer is blowing in the wind

Dang, LS...

You made me download Charlie Daniels' Uneasy Rider yesterday and Bob Dylan today.

I refuse to do Neil though...

Tin Soldiers and Nixon coming, stop it stop it
We're finally on our own, make it stop........

Granola any one??

Krue

crabbait · 04-09-2003, 09:50 PM

"Four dead in Ohio"

That one is too close to home.
Some of us lived through that.
Good to remember what we can never forget.
(There is no gramlin with tears)

Kruechief · 04-09-2003, 10:02 PM

My football roll model graduated from Kent State that year, he was picked the most valuable player in the Tangerine Bowl.

Can you guess?

Krue

The Fishing Geek · 04-10-2003, 04:38 AM

I was born the day the Kent State massacre happened. :tongue:

Ya fogeys.

Straydog · 04-10-2003, 05:10 AM

Oh maaaaaaaaaannn, the Geek would be a 'kid'!?!?!?!?

"....it's time to stop,
hey,
what's that sound,
everybody look
what's comin' down...."

Straydog · 04-10-2003, 06:26 AM

I was just looking through my new Time magazine and came across a pic of an Iraqi man sitting on the rubble of what was once his home. It brought to mind another song of us old guys' era...... :depressed:

"..Freedom's just another word
for nothing left to lose......."

Kruechief · 04-10-2003, 06:32 AM

Come on guys????

This player went on to set numerous DEFENSIVE records in the NFL.

He is known as the vampire in cleats.

He has FOUR very nice rings.

He is now a fish and game office in Pennsylvania.

Krue

Straydog · 04-10-2003, 06:44 AM

I don't follow pro sports although I suspect I will recognize his name when it is posted.

I must say though, he's gotta be one big dude if he is now a fish and game "office" somewhere! :grin: :grin:

Kruechief · 04-10-2003, 06:50 AM

I still have a cold SD :tongue:

I just got called into an elementary school, 5th graders playing "touch" football, ya right.

Where's my whistle?

Krue

Straydog · 04-10-2003, 07:13 AM

Krue,

Oh man. One of THOSE trips to school......

Good luck.

Dog

steelhead_fishn · 04-10-2003, 07:41 AM

Crabbait,

The terms of use for the original board state that posts created with their only purpose being to anger.. The terms of use posted by geek said posts that anger someone. There's a big difference there.

I'm sure everyone appreciates the fact that you are willing to ban people from the BB to make the mods sound "tough?" .. I don't really understand whats going on. Why would you point me towards the door for questioning new policy with a reasonable argument? Would you prefer to keep rules that just plain don't work, and drive people away from the board, or would you prefer feedback from your members to get things set up in the best intrest for the whole community?

Every post that has questioned any policy on this board has been greeted with something along the lines of DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT, threats of banning, etc. Mabey we should all take off our Power Ranger hats and badges for a few momements, and put things in perspective...

The long time members of this BB that the mods have been editing/hammering/threatening are the main reason people come to this BB. Thumper has helped me improve my fishing success in many ways, he's always at ifish events, everyone knows him, and hes an all around good guy. If you chase away those kinds of folks, who's left?

This issue irritates me so bad because I'm a veteran on the internet. I've seen so many random sites go down the toilet due to poor moderation. When a moderator stops listening to the customers, and starts sounding like enjoy what their doing a bit to much things go down hill fast. I think things are headed that direction. Why don't you mod's make yourselves feel "tough" again by posting the picture of the double doors? I would guess everyone thinks it's worth it to lose a productive member of the board due to overinflated ego's. It's unfortunate my only crime is posting my opinion.

Jeff

Kruechief · 04-10-2003, 08:16 AM

Luthian,

We are not customers, we are a type of modern day squatter or guest of Jen's site.

Loren

Birdnest · 04-10-2003, 08:40 AM

"post to inflame or anger"--Sometimes people disagree, sometimes when people disagree they get angry. I suppose I will only reply to post I agree with so as not to anger anyone.

crabbait · 04-10-2003, 10:31 AM

Luthian - Let me start by apologizing for the length of this post. You bring up some good points that I would like to address. Usually, I would do this via e-mail but you ask publically so I will respond publically since others may have the same qustions.

First, lets look at the two "inflamatory post" statements side by side:

First the original quoted directly from the acceptable use policy: ""Inflammatory posts are not permitted. A post, or statement in a post, which serves only to fire up negative emotions or generate anger will be considered inflammatory and will be edited or deleted at the discretion of the moderators. Multiple offenses of this nature will result in banning."

Here is the same rule which I paraphrased: "If you post something that is intended, or appears to intended, to anger a person or group of persons you are posting outside the acceptable use policy."

The second statement, which I wrote, was merely an attempt to make people aware of and clearly state the rule. If it muddied the waters I apologize. The quoted version from the AUP is the rule.

Since we cannot read your mind we must make a subjective determination of your intention no matter which rendition of the rule you read. The "serves only to fire up negative emotions or generate anger" portion of the original speaks to intent. In other words, if you say something intending to inform and someone is angered by it you did not post "only" to anger. You will often see me post "what did you intend by that?" after a questionable post. In these cases the intention is not clear and I do not want to take any action based on a misunderstanding. Whether or not you intended to anger someone, your post may still be edited if we feel that the reaction was valid, again, subjective.

In the interest of brevity I will not quote your entire statement. To paraphrase, you said that people appreciate that we are willing to ban in order to make the mods sound "tough?" and later you said that posts which question policy are greeted with DON"T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT. I am sorry if we have come off sounding like the Power Rangers. Let me give you some background in order to clarify our position:

There have been recent discussions of shutting LIG down, both on and off the board. In fact, Jennie did close the board for awhile in hopes that people would understand that they needed to treat each other with respect and because she had had enough of the bickering. Things changed a little for a short time, then we were right back to the same old stuff.

Again, we discussed shutting down LIG. Jennie was prevailed upon to continue the board because people need a place to discuss non-fishing topics, especially in these trying times. It was felt that, without LIG, these issues would migrate to the fishing board and we want to keep the main board fishing related. The workload moderating the board was immense so we added another moderator.

Soon, even with the additional moderator we were unable to keep up with the name calling, inflamatory, disrespectful (even hateful) posts. Something needed to be done.

We decided enough was enough. If LIG were to continue then we must let people know that the unacceptable posting must stop. There are only so many actions that we as moderators can take. We can edit, delete, warn and, finally, ban.

We have been editing and deleting posts all along with no apparent effect so we very publically let it be known that repeated offenses will lead to suspension of posting privileges, just like it has always said in the acceptable use policy.

No one wants to ban anyone. This is readily apparent when you look at the number of bannings that have occured since we posted the "New Beginning in LIG" thread. Instead, we have spent countless hours explaining the goal and the reason for actions both publically and privately.

Finally, the bottom line: In order for LIG to survive, some people must change the way they communicate with others. This means posting in accordance with the acceptable use policy. The reason that we may appear heavy handed in this is because it is not open to debate. This will happen.

I am perfectly willing to explain, inform, educate, and mentor anyone that would like help in understanding exactly what is expected. Knowingly and blatantly disregarding the acceptable use policy will not be tolerated no matter how long a person has been a member or how many posts they have made. That would not be fair to the rest of the members.

Again, no one has had their privileges revoked without an opportunity to explain themselves or to make things right. Suspension of privileges is a last resort and, even then, is not always permanent.

All we are asking, no, insisting, is that people do their best to post within the acceptable use policy. It does not mean that you cannot post something controversial or that you cannot argue and debate. Just do so with respect for one another so that threads don't degenerate into bickering and name calling.

Yes, you can question the mods. I would prefer that you do so via e-mail. Challenging the mods is a different subject. What is challenging a mod? For example, a mod deletes a post, you immediately post the same thing or you get into a contest of posting inappropriate things to see how fast a mod deletes it. Our only recourse for such action is suspension of privileges.

So. There you have it. Let me know if you have questions. we all need to be on the same page.

[ 04-10-2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]