WMD Found in Iraq

[GutshotApe]

(Inflammatory jab edited - crabbait)...our forces in Iraq have found ready-to-fire surface-to-surface missiles loaded with nerve gas and blister agents...and barrels of nerve and blister agents...and evidence that mustard gas was dumped into the river. In short, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION! and lots of 'em.

Fresh crow dinners followed by dessert of humble pie are in order, I think, for many of you.

[ 04-07-2003, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[The Fishing Geek]

Big surprise. Either way, they were going to find them.

Geek,
You're unbelievable.

[skrimmy]

Geek's still in denial! No surprise that the ifish's biggest lefty was first to reply!

Go Troops! Enjoy those gold clad shower fixtures in Sadams palace! All I wanna see now is the information minister get HIS, live on TV!

[Cool Texan]

I tend to agree with Geek on this. One way or another they'd be "discovered".

From what I've read, I'm not sure I'd call it "lots of it". They found some yes, but not tons of it.

Either way...its still hard to want to celebrate this. Sure, if true then it somewhat justifies the actions...but at the end of the day, we still bullied the situation, probably should not have busted in the way we did, and are in the process of turning the rest of the Arab world against us. Just seems to fly in the face of world peace. The whole thing is just saddening...I continue to hope it ends quickly and peacefully. And I hope that the UN is allowed to do the driving when it comes to N. Korea.

[The Fishing Geek]

What? Do you REALLY think that if they didn't find anything that they would simply say "Whoops, I guess that they didn't have any"? Like it would be the first time that a weapon was planted on a murder victim.

[skrimmy]

Geek, you probably think OJ is innocent too?

(Totally off topic inflammatory post deleted - crabbait)

[ 04-07-2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by skrimmy:
Geek, you probably think OJ is innocent too?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">OJ was found innocent, but I don't agree with that finding.

Regardless, tell me that you honestly believe that after going through all this destruction that the powers that be wouldn't plant it if they didn't find it? If you can do that, I'm impressed with your unwavering trust.

[El Shaddai]

Wow!

[id. painter]

Who in the world would plant W.M.D.. and be able to keep silent about it. How would anyone be able to pull that off. id. p.

[Straydog]

My gosh. One is automaticaly a 'lefty' if he questions this war and the motivation behind it? Someone tell all of the vets that are questioning this war. Gotta love the stereotyping.

Yea, I was just waiting for Bush to come on TV and tell the American public he and his advisors errored and were wrong in making WMD a primary excuse for their attack and they are sorry they jumped to conclusions.

I still have mixed emotions about this whole war as I agree we are making some people's lives better and they are thankful. I am just not convinced making some people's lives better justifies killing other innocent people.

However, the WMD argument was settled the day Bush decided to go to war (about 9-12 or there abouts would be my guess). They would indeed be found.

I noticed on MSNBC yesterday that some of the tons of ammo they have found stashed in Iraq was purchased from the USA. Odd I haven't heard the cry to attack our own country because of it. Tons of ammo are pretty massivly destructive, guess we better kill ourselves, and fast!

[ 04-07-2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Cool Texan]

Originally posted by Straydog:
Gotta love the stereotyping. Rush would be proud of what a fine student you are, GSA.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Just couldnt make the post without the childish jab at someone huh? This is not directed entirely at you...but at you and all the others that just cant seem to resist post content that adds no value to the discussion.

Lets just discuss the situation, on both sides, without the personal comments/jabs. I bet we'd have an interesting thread in time.

[The Fishing Geek]

Cool Texan has a point. Let's not have personal jabs from both sides, mmkay? I'll edit mine out.

[Straydog]

Fair enough, mine will be edited.

GSA, can you do away with the "all you lefties thing?"

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by id. painter:
Who in the world would plant W.M.D.. and be able to keep silent about it. How would anyone be able to pull that off. id. p.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">How many people would have to be in on such a "planting"? I'd say not many. Black ops the things in and it'd be real clean.

[Cool Texan]

Stray and Geek,

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]


GSA, you're next.

[lost_sailor]

That report is still unconfirmed, BTW.

[skrimmy]

Geek, we have way too many media folks over there keeping an eye on things, and they would LOVE to share your view. So far, the military has been pretty quick to come out and say that the sites they "thought" had wmd did not have them once they did they dug in and checked. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they do want to prove their point about wmd, but I don't think they'd get away with "planting" them. As I understand it, it was an Iraqi General who took our military and media to this site over the weekend. Go figure.

And it's not just about WMD, it's also a well known and documented fact that Sadam kills his own people in masses. They found 200 of them over the weekend, in wooden crates in a warehouse. The guy is as bad as Hitler, and left unchecked, would kill as many as Hitler did. It's time for him to go.

[El-Kabong]

during the Gulf War 1 the patriots were credited with shooting down every incoming iraqi missle and improbably success rates (much like today). These "success" were routinely touted by every administration talking head during the war and after. It was about 7 years leater that the truth was "reveled" to the public, that in fact they pretty much were failure, and caused more damage then they prevented.

[The Fishing Geek]

Nevermind.

[Stratocaster]

I dont remember it that way at all, once the Scuds started firing, because alot of them hit hard targets, especially Israel, who by the way also had Partiot batteries.

[1pump]

WMD's are only relevant to Mr Bush's political justification of this war, more specifically to say to the UN "I told you so."
It's no surprise we'd find them. The Iraqis have used them on the Iranians and the Kurds, so they had to be there. There's chemical weapons and their components scattered all over the Middle East and central Asia, not to mention eastern Europe and the republics of the FSU. Matter of fact, there's quite a few just up the road in Umatilla. Big deal.
The WMD's are just a minor pretense of this war. I don't buy into that Bush/Rumsfeld WMD rhetoric for a second. It was just a tool to get the UN to play ball.

[Cool Texan]

So then, assuming that the latest reports are true and the WMD's turned out to be pesticides, then does GSA owe "all you lefties" an apology? [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] :shocked:

[Stratocaster]

Does the media have an obligation to await confirmation instead of jumping the gun? Alls they care about is breaking the news first. Well sort out the truth later. Crying wolf or what, now if and when they find the real thing well all roll our eyes. :grin:

[skrimmy]

Straydog, no, I'm not gullible enough to think that the media over there is allowed free reign to go where they want. But at least they report what they see, like it or not. That's more than we get from Iraqi press.

Do any of you really believe the lies that spew out of the Information Minister's mouth? Geek, any comments? Is HE lying on that one, or is it the US who lies? Gee, we're not really in Baghdad, or at the airport for that matter.....yeah, right.

And personally, I don't know or care if they find WMD, the regime over there commits mass murder of their own people and there is NO disputing that. The people live in constant fear for their lives. The regime need to go away, period.

[Snapset]

I agree with you fisherdan. We called up our satellite provider and had it reactivated last weekend, so we could get CNN. The problem with CNN is they report things immediately with little or no verification. At least when we had to wait for the Nightly News, there had been time for verification on most of the stories and some of the baseless rumors had been rinsed out. However, there is a huge "Grain of Salt" factor that has to be taken, because a large percentage of the stories on the network news are wrong or flat-out untrue. Even those that prove to be true are taken out of context, so understanding doesn't usually follow until well after the event. Usually in the form of a book by a trusted writer.

[Cool Texan]

Skrimmy,

I want their information minister to stay around as long as possible. I enjoy the humor that it creates. "There are no evil US dogs in Baghdad!!!". Then turn on tv and what do you see, video of tanks driving through the city. I dont know how in the world this guy has kept his job!! :grin:

[Stratocaster]

Did you see his comedy routine last night?, hilarious, how does he keep a straight face?

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by Cool Texan:
Skrimmy,

I want their information minister to stay around as long as possible. I enjoy the humor that it creates. "There are no evil US dogs in Baghdad!!!". Then turn on tv and what do you see, video of tanks driving through the city. I dont know how in the world this guy has kept his job!! :grin:

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">He kept his job by saying what he was told to say. He kept his job just like any other government official, Iraq or otherwise.

CT and Geek,
If they wanted to fabricate or lie about WMD's why did they retract the claim that they were found here and at the other false alarm locations?

And what about THIS
Citing a top official with the 1st Marine Division, NPR reported U.S. forces recovered around 20 medium-range missiles equipped with sarin and mustard gas. The BM-21 missiles were reportedly "ready to fire."

[ 04-07-2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[El-Kabong]

In my opinion, the information coming out of both sides in this is HIGHLY suspect. The "embeded" US journalists are only being shown what the US military wants them to see, and then the US military has control over what is said on the air. The info coming from the Iraqi side is just as suspect (with a healthy dose of insanity to boot!)

Fact is, message control is a military tactic.

[Cool Texan]

Keta,

A) World Net Daily? Find someone credible and I will read it.

B) Neither The Geek nor myself said that they would do this, but rather that it is not a foregone conclusion that they would not at some point, or could not. Basically, I think we are both stating that it wouldnt surprise us if it were to happen, but that we're hopeful that any news or discoveries are legitimate and substantiated.

[El-Kabong]

Is it only me, or is there something wrong when WorldNetDaily is citing NPR.

[lost_sailor]

Planting evidence is well within the capabilities of the Bush regime. They play the propaganda very well.

Uncle Lefty

[Hoosier Daddy]

I tend to think that if we were going to fake a find of WMD's we'd have done it already. Not to say that it still won't happen, but I will be less suspicious the longer it takes to find them.

[Cool Texan]

mgm,

I wonder more by their banner on the top, featuring Barbara Simpson as "The Babe in the Bunker" when she is neither young nor a hottie...and not to be outdone by the "Vox Day" and a picture of a dude with a mohawk. :shocked:

CT,
WND is often there first with the facts and CNN will ignore facts.

Check out the third article from the top HERE Posted about the same time that the Geeks POST . Who's right

mgm,
They are kind of on opposite sides aren't they?

[Cool Texan]

Keta, who knows. But I'd give a LOT more credibility to Arabworldnews.com than I would to any site touting "the babe in the bunker".

[1pump]

Anybody know when the next "Baghdad Bob" press conference is? I love that guy! :smile:

[Hoosier Daddy]

Originally posted by lost_sailor:
Planting evidence is well within the capabilities of the Bush regime. They play the propaganda very well.

Uncle Lefty

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Hmm.
A) Proof? Past evidence of planting evidence to indicate WMD's or similar would be sufficient.
B) shall we make comparisons to other presidents and such activities? Probably not, so I won't, unless you open the door for it.
C) If they "play the game" so well, why are so many people so PO'd right now? Seems that if they were that good at it, we'd all just be plodding along with no notice of these things.

Gore lost, get over it.

If that's out of line, I'll apologize later.

CT,
It might be true for some (blind or crazy?). It is not for us to say.

I have found more truth at WND than at CNN (Clinton Network News/****** Network News). Both have a political slant but CNN is much worse. If CNN doesn't fabricate "facts" thet omit them.

CNN CNN
CNN and Bagdad Pete
CNN's anti-US bias

[ 04-07-2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Stratocaster]

To be distrusting is one thing, but the paranoia is sure thick round here. :grin:

[ 04-07-2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

[Stratocaster]

Someones "novel idea" sure didnt take very well. I know its hard but you can do it. :tongue:

[ 04-07-2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

[Cool Texan]

fisherdan, yeah i know, and I really wanted to stick to it...but to be called sexist??!?!?

Then again, I suppose that post alone sums up his character and personality, so no reply at all would have been sufficient. :grin:

Ok, back to my novel approach...the kinder gentler Texan. [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img]

[Cool Texan]

Original message edited Geek. :grin:

- Cool Texan "The Dude At The Desk"

[ 04-07-2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Cool Texan ]

[Stratocaster]

As i age im finding it easier to turn the other cheek(the one on my face) :grin: Im gonna start calling The Geek, Mills Lane.

[ 04-07-2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

[Cool Texan]

Keta....truce.

CT,
Ignore the Geek I am a big boy.

Geek,
I don't give a human excreetment (is this PC enough for you or are you going to cut this too?) what CT wants to post.

My point is it is not up to CT, Me or anyone else (you)to determine what is a "Babe". The word shouldn't even be used (WND).

CT,
K

[The Fishing Geek]

The "Babe in the Bunker" incident has been removed from the thread. Let's not let the conversation deteriorate to namecalling again, lest you are looking for time away from Ifish for awhile.

[Cool Texan]

Keta, the "babe" comment was from that web site... here is a link to one of her articles:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=31902

Apparently she is ok with being called "babe"...as for me, and the point I was making, is that while she might be ok with that, I would think that severely undermines her credibility.

Just wanted to clarify so that there arent any hard feelings or confusion.

CT,
Read the last line in my post 4 above.

My point on your "babe" post was it isn't up to us to say she barks or not.

[ 04-07-2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Cool Texan]

So then if I read this right, after all this bickering and getting scolded by The Geek, we were in agreement all along?
:shocked:

:grin:

Well............

Check my CNN links. WND isn't that bad.

[RvW]

"all you lefties"?

I would think the "left" would be more satisfied to hear there were WMDs found than anyone, wouldnt you "righties" agree? Seems as though if the left aproaches the right, and asks why they were in such a commited imminent hurry to start a war (uh, including the UN oposition to war) and the right responded not with the KNOWLEDGE that WMDs exsisted, but that Saddams regime needs to come to an end for humanitarian reasons. Hmm, is the left motivated by humanitarian causes to avert war until war is an absolute necesity? AKA HUMANITARIAN MOTIVATION (keep the troops alive, develop a plan of action, HAVE A CLEAR REASON for war BEFORE war not during. Arm innocent civilians with knowledge?)


I think the "right" is saying "hey look, we found a reason to go to war" 3 weeks after doing so.

My left leaning senses tell me this is the only thing the rest of us non-violent, practical, unbiased "left" were looking for to begin with.
A REASON for war.

Now that the right has found WMDs, have you abandoned the reason we went to war in the first place because youve alegedly found a better one burried in shallow pits, unused?

Im not sure short range artilery, allegedy loaded with mustard gas can be considered a WMD to begin with...and a barrel of toxins?

I suppose the barrels are launched with a catapult, and a catapult is a WMD too.

[RvW]

P.S. Why has no-one here had thier political views accuses of being "center" or even come out and said it?

Would this also be known as "riding the fence"..."wishy washy"?.

Now that would be shameful in an inviroment such as IFish LIG wouldnt it!

[The Fishing Geek]

I'm right-handed, so I didn't feel like it was directed at me. :grin:

[Stratocaster]

COTR, i consider myself, if i must place myself in a "political" slot it would be right down the middle. I do sway to and fro on some issues. I am not in lock step with any parties ideal. Like some in this post. Im not an animal, im a human being. The view of some is , if your for the war your conservative and if your against it your liberal. My view is its not if your for or against, its your argument to the effect as being perhaps propaganda or ignorance or if one is spouting talking points, such the lazy slogan "war for oil" or an ignorant and hateful statement such as "kill all Arabs" that may be the real indicater of ones mind set, or a sense of laziness of the issues.

[ 04-07-2003, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

[RvW]

Geek, unfortunately much of the critisisms ARE directed at you and to put my point into simpler terms: A political point of view, slant, OPINION is just that, and OPINION.

Not everyone can be called a "left leaning tiedye wearing beatnik hippy" if they happen to opine that the war was premature, and not a good idea given the UN lack of support. Yet it happens... I think to call someone "left" and redicule thier ideas or thoughts is the same as attacking thier opinion, but in a creatively, "politically correct" way.

I vote to have any comments about left and right added to the rules of conduct as prohibited.

It doesnt take a brain surgeon to figure out that people are labeled by thier views, and then caracterized and intentionally offended by those who disagree with thier "left" or "right" slant.

Maybe it does take a brain surgeon to figure out a more practical, and socially acceptable way to say you disagree with someones opinion. uhh, maybe "I disagree with your opinion" would be effective?

Naw, thats just too polite and sooo far from creatively bordering on offensive for IFish LIG now isnt it?

Im often reminded of dogs marking thier territory with testicular hormones when I come in here and read the tactics used to argue. The effort in some posts only exceeds this talent by occasionally bearing teeth too.
Dogs have no clue how to debate an issue or idea.
Do IFishers?

FisherDan.....me too.

[ 04-07-2003, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]