Good one! a must read!

Timber Man · 03-25-2003, 09:30 AM

Alabama State Auditor Beth Chapman. Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's
speech, which resulted in five standing ovations, tremendous applause and an
encore. It's a short read and well worth it.

I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have
given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl
Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil
Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.

If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but
the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles
of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy. Tonight, I say we should support
the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the
liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go
make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of
speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put to
death at the hands of Sadam Husssein or Osama Bin Laden. I want to know how
the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can
possibly be the same people who are for abortion? They are the same people
who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn. The movie
stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as "human shields" for the
Iraqis. I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go.

No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact that
this country has been forced into war-innocent people have lost their
lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother,
my husband, or even worse my own son.

On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie stars treading the
blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.

On September 11, 2001; there are no photos of movie stars standing as "human
shields" against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the World
Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid civil
servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.

When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the
ship - - where were the human shields then?

If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the
gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the
lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to
sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray
bullets.

If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of
honesty and integrity that epitomizes courage and embody the spirit of
freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those
are the people who have earned and deserve shielding!

Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not
because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and
women who hated war too. However, they lay down their lives so that we all
may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love hath no man, that he lay
down his life for his friend," or in this case a country.

We should give our military honor and acknowledgement and not let their
lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through
Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans
who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield - they were
human shields.

I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it with
their lives in the past - - those who will protect it in the present and
defend it in the future.

America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained
silent too long! We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God
for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever
the future may hold.

After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son said
terrorism is a war against them and us and if you're not one of us, then
you're one of them.

So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let
us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the
President, our troops and their families and our country.

May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the
greatest country on the face of this earth!

[ 03-25-2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Timber Man ]

skein · 03-25-2003, 12:18 PM

When my dad came back from kicking the stuffing out of Goering and Company, he was pretty proud of what he had done and the fact that he had helped pull the world through a pretty tough time. And the world he handed off to me was better than the one he had inherited - but then he had fought to make it better - both at home and overseas.

I wish people would quit quoting losers to try and prove a point.

Skein

GutshotApe · 03-25-2003, 01:00 PM

Skein - "mega dittos!" GSA

crabbait · 03-25-2003, 06:21 PM

Skien - My Dad fought with Patten in the Battle of the Bulge then went to the Aleutians to help finish the Japanese. He is very proud of the job he did and I am very proud of him. Neither of us supports the decision to attack Iraq but we both support our troups.

Just because Goering was a **** and a loser does not make what he said less true.

Calling people who do not agree with you "liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals" does not help convince them that your way of thinking is correct nor does it strengthen the arguement. It just shows that you are closed minded and hateful.

[ 03-25-2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

skein · 03-25-2003, 07:11 PM

Hey, my dad walked across Sicily with Patton and made it as far as Rome before he got shot up and sent home. He's no longer alive, but if he were, I'll bet our dads could have some pretty interesting conversations.

Quote:
Calling people who do not agree with you "liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals" does not help convince them that your way of thinking is correct nor does it strengthen the arguement. It just shows that you are closed minded and hateful.

Did I say that? I certainly don't remember it...

I guess the gist of what I'm saying is that I'd like to hear quotes from those I admire, like Abraham Lincoln, rather than those I dispise, like Goering.

Skein

crabbait · 03-25-2003, 07:40 PM

No, Skein, you did not say that I did not mean to imply that you were closed minded either. It is a quote from the speech at the top of the page.

I also agree that I would much rather read quotes that inspire rather than those that make me cringe and wonder.

May this war be over soon and may it cost us only dollars and not the lives of people we love.

[ 03-25-2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Silver Hilton · 03-25-2003, 07:48 PM

Skein,

The relevence of Crabait's post is that Goering (forgive my spelling) was incredibly effective at whipping up public sentiment through propaganda. Now, it's true that Crabbie only wears tie die shirts, eats only brown rice, and has every grateful dead bootleg known to western man, but really, he's a reasonable guy, and is simply trying to point out that the principles of controlling the thoughts of the public in times of war are well understood, and are being applied to us by our own government. I actually agree in taking out Hussein, but I am appalled and frightened by the level of deception and attempted opinion control that is being used by our government, on us.

None are so blind as they that will not see.

GutshotApe · 03-25-2003, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crabbait:
Skien - My Dad fought with Patten in the Battle of the Bulge then went to the Aleutians to help finish the Japanese.

CB - For what it's worth, the Battle of the Bulge was in late 1944-early 1945. The Japanese in the Aleutians were cleared from Kiska and then evacuated Attu (or vice-versa?) by mid 1943....

skein · 03-25-2003, 08:31 PM

SH,

I think you mean Goebbels, the ****'s propaganda minister. He finally drank poison (I think) which seems appropriate since he spent his entire life spewing it.

I agree that we must be continually vigilant lest we be drawn into the same trap, and I've said many, many times that the only thing we know for certain is that both sides of any political debate are lying to us - or at least embellishing the truth.

But I steadfastly believe that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats nor the conservatives nor the liberals deserve to be compared to the ****'s. They are better than that, and our First- and Second Amendments help us keep them that way.

Crabbait, I agree. May this war be over soon and may most people on both sides come through as survivors.

Skein

03-25-2003, 08:42 PM

http://www.vaxxine.com/scon/bigots.htm

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldbe...rg011201.shtml

http://www.gargaro.com/****.html

Kruechief · 03-25-2003, 09:45 PM

keta,

Those are some interesting reads. :shocked:

Krue

crabbait · 03-25-2003, 11:52 PM

Once again:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger ."

-- Hermann Goering, **** Reichsmarshal and Luftwaffe chief, at the Nuremberg trials.

Timber's "good one" is a prime example of Herr Goering's quote hard at work. Subjegate free thought! Chant the chant!

Timber Man · 03-26-2003, 06:58 AM

Quote:

But I steadfastly believe that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats nor the conservatives nor the liberals deserve to be compared to the ****'s. They are better than that, and our First- and Second Amendments help us keep them that way.

Thank you Skein!

Quote:

Timber's "good one" is a prime example of Herr Goering's quote hard at work. Subjegate free thought! Chant the chant!

crabbait-You bash the speech for its words then you say this. Seems to me being called a **** is worse then calling someone a tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberal.Way to make your point! NOT!!!

Straydog · 03-26-2003, 07:13 AM

Problem is Timber man, CB didn't call anyone anything, unlike the person that wrote the speech you posted.

He merely pointed out the correlation of thought and was right on the money......

By the way, I find it real interesting that you evidently are supporting the war, in part, because you feel we are ridding Iraq of a regime that forcefully took their country over.

The interesting thing is the line at the bottom of your post...... the say no to Soveriegn nations thing. Aren't you supporting a war that allegedly rights the same sort of wrong that made us the country we are? Didn't we forcefully take this land from it's native inhabitants?

[ 03-26-2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

GutshotApe · 03-26-2003, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
Didn't we forcefully take this land from it's native inhabitants?

Yes, SD, we did....but they weren't using most of it...and were abusing :shocked: much of what they did use. (Source: Journals of Lewis & Clark; Francis Parkman's "The Oregon Trail"; and many, many other early accounts & descriptions.)

The Fishing Geek · 03-26-2003, 07:47 AM

We're doing SO much better with it ourselves...

Straydog · 03-26-2003, 07:55 AM

GSA, well then by all means, heck, they weren't using it all anyway so then it is ok to kill them and take it over.

With all due respect, that is the most rediculous thing I have heard in a long time.

I suppose you are going to tell me next that the immigrants were concerned about the environmental damage being done by the Native Americans and felt it their duty to take over the country for the sake of the environment.

You know, your quest to discredit anything I say is certainly taking it's toll on your credibilty.

By the way, from the footage I have seen, there is a lot of desert not being utilized in Iraq, then why is it wrong that Saddam took it over? Heck, they weren't using it anyway!

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "use it or lose it"!

[ 03-26-2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

crabbait · 03-26-2003, 08:52 AM

Timber - I never in any way called anyone a ****. The technique used to sway the public, however, is the same. If you cannot see that then I suggest it is because you do not want to see it.

Enough.

GutshotApe · 03-26-2003, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
GSA, well then by all means, heck, they weren't using it all anyway so then it is ok to kill them and take it over.

With all due respect, that is the most rediculous thing I have heard in a long time.

I suppose you are going to tell me next that the immigrants were concerned about the environmental damage being done by the Native Americans and felt it their duty to take over the country for the sake of the environment.

You know, your quest to discredit anything I say is certainly taking it's toll on your credibilty.

By the way, from the footage I have seen, there is a lot of desert not being utilized in Iraq, then why is it wrong that Saddam took it over? Heck, they weren't using it anyway!

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "use it or lose it"!

Get a grip, Straydog...I wasn't trying to discredit you...you do that well enough all by yourself

.

Timber Man · 03-26-2003, 12:52 PM

It is all about Indian netting straydog!!!! NATION inside a NATION!!!! (Inflammatory statement deleted.)

[ 03-26-2003, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

The Fishing Geek · 03-26-2003, 12:57 PM

Easy, Timber. Let's not get personal.

Degner · 03-26-2003, 01:15 PM

I like to look at ourselves as an occupation force here to protect the native americans from the canadians. :grin:

Timber Man · 03-26-2003, 02:16 PM

Inflammatory statement???? Tell me where?

I guess heres how it goes... Tonight, I say we should support
the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the
liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go
make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

Straydog · 03-26-2003, 02:18 PM

Degner,

Why of course, I never looked at it like that! [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]
:grin:

Timber Man · 03-26-2003, 04:52 PM

Crabbait (the mod) can call others a **** yet he deletes a post that is far less discriminating!!

The Fishing Geek · 03-26-2003, 05:01 PM

Please show me where Crabbait called anyone other than Hermann Goering (a ****), a ****.

Go ahead. I'm waiting.

Jennie@ifish · 03-26-2003, 05:01 PM

From the acceptable use policy, which you might want to read:

Publicly challenging the administration and moderators rules of use. Discussing the rules is fine. Challenging, testing, pushing, and refusal to recognize them is a bannable offense.

You really should read this, Timber... It's good stuff!

Jen

Timber Man · 03-26-2003, 05:41 PM

So now I'm Challenging, testing, pushing, and refusing to recognize the mods...

Jennie@ifish · 03-26-2003, 06:00 PM

I'm glad you can see that, perfectly clearly.

:smile:

Jen

Tilla · 03-26-2003, 07:55 PM

I really can't see the Crabster in tie dye, but his quote was appreciated. Birkenstocks, really!

Snapset · 03-26-2003, 08:02 PM

I am glad to seee that tempers have been moderated and calmer heads have prevailed during my 3 day whirlwind tour of Eastern Oregon. Believe it or not, I missed getting back to the contention.
Caveat: I was in a single vehicle with my wife and 4 kids for 1600 miles. :smile:

skein · 03-26-2003, 08:34 PM

I'm kinda ashamed that at one time I became part of this tirade. It certainly escalated quickly and headed off in directions I don't care to go with my friends. I will bow out of this thread - and the Life in General forum - simply because we, in our fervor, are starting to say things that are entirely unnecessary. Emotions are running high, but I don't want to ever forget we are bound by a common bond - FISHING!

Any of you are welcome in my boat any time. It would be a pleasure to fish with you.

Come see me over on the fishing side of the board.

Skein

periwinkle · 03-26-2003, 10:01 PM

So now I know why Portland's anti-war protests were so large......did you libs wear your Ifish hats in the parades downtown?

crabbait · 03-26-2003, 10:10 PM

Thank you, Periwinkle. Tell me, was that meant to enlighten someone or are you just trying to inflame?

Geek, I think this one needs a lock. Second?

Straydog · 03-26-2003, 11:38 PM

GSA,

I thought once was enough.

If not to discredit me, what exactly was your point? :whazzup: