Michael Moore - What a discrace!

[Born to be Wild]

Whats wrong with Hollywierd? Do they have so much money and live in there gated communitys that they think they are immune to everything? First time some anthrax makes it to southern Cal, maybe they will see things differently. Wonder what Shawn Penn thinks about the movie; "Prisoners in Iraq"?

They (Hollyweird) show more violence of every kind than what will happen in Gulf War part II.
Sick stuff!

[ 03-24-2003, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]

[The Fishing Geek]

Mr. Moore's speech:

“I’ve invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us. They are here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time when we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons, whether it is the fiction of duct tape or the fiction of orange alerts. We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush. Shame on you. And any time that you have the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up.”

[Born to be Wild]

So do you think that speech is acceptable Geek?
I find it deplorable or despicable! At the least, unpatriotic.

[Sea Nymph]

Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:
Mr. Moore's speech:

“I’ve invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us. They are here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time when we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons, whether it is the fiction of duct tape or the fiction of orange alerts. We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush. Shame on you. And any time that you have the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up.”

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Yep that's the speech. The one that was answered with all of the BOO's and drowned out with music.
Article

SN

[ 03-24-2003, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Sea Nymph ]

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by DepoeBayDan:
I find it deplorable or despicable! At the least, unpatriotic.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">That's nice.

[ 03-24-2003, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: The Fishing Geek ]

[24 on/ 48 off]

Right or wrong, he spoke his mind. Thank god we live in a country where we can do that without a dictator like Saddam Hussein willing to kill us for speaking our minds.

--spud-- :smile:

Sure guys let's just rescind the 1st Amendment
Was it inappropriate? probably but Michael Moore was just using the same right that Rush Limbaugh uses on the radio every day.

[ 03-24-2003, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Stew ]

[Silver Hilton]

Originally posted by DepoeBayDan:
So do you think that speech is acceptable Geek?
I find it deplorable or despicable! At the least, unpatriotic.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I can't speak for Dave, but my thoughts are, I thought it was a fairly expected piece of grandstanding of the type we occasionally see at the Oscars. It was a political statement, one that has the opposite view that you do, and critical of the government. The whole point of this country is that it is, by definition, not unpatriotic to differ with the political views of the current government. That freedom, which we hold so dear, is supposed to be one of the reasons that we are fighting this war. We fought the American Revolution so that we wouldn't get hung anymore for criticizing the government.

You seem to think that we shouldn't allow this type of speech. Should we put him in jail? Ban him from working? Suppress his films? Shoot him?

Wait a minute, that's what they do in China, Russia, North Korea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia...

Now, perhaps what you meant, and what I perhaps agree with, is that it is in poor taste and rude to coopt a public affair like the oscars to make a personal political statement. But that is another matter.

[Born to be Wild]

Mr. Moore's speech:

fictitious president?
Might I remind you whether you like it or not, George bush is our President. Ficticious?

fictitious reasons?

Evidently you are out of touch if you believe that! (Unless you are French, German or Russian and have something to hide).

fiction of orange alerts?

Yea, well Hollywierd would make a good target if I was a terrorist but they probably realize they support there (Anti-American) cause.

Shame on you, Mr. Bush. Shame on you

That is unpatriotic and an embarrassment!

And any time that you have the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up.”

Any idiot that bases his political beliefs on the Dixie Chicks, has a real problem!


I don’t watch or have any interest in these bozo’s, but it is a shame that so many folks with so much money can have nothing of value to say.

[HOGGEMIN]

Well said Dan.

[STGRule]

DBD: While when he said it was probably silly, what he said is a point of view held by a large number of people. I personally think he spoke a fair amount of truth. Before you jump on the "unpatriotic" bandwagon and shake it in my face, my Grandfather served with the Allies in two wars and has medals from the US government to prove it. My Father fought well in the Korean War. My Son volunteered and served his country during Desert Storm. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the people that fight our wars. I do not however, have any respect for the people that send them out to die without it being truly the last resort. You have your opinion, others have theirs.

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by STGRule:
DBD: While when he said it was probably silly, what he said is a point of view held by a large number of people. I personally think he spoke a fair amount of truth. Before you jump on the "unpatriotic" bandwagon and shake it in my face, my Grandfather served with the Allies in two wars and has medals from the US government to prove it. My Father fought well in the Korean War. My Son volunteered and served his country during Desert Storm. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the people that fight our wars. I do not however, have any respect for the people that send them out to die without it being truly the last resort. You have your opinion, others have theirs.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Why must we list our lineage of militaristic ancestors so that we can avoid being called Pinko ******* (thanks, Boedy!)? Frankly it's silly.

Mr. Moore has the right to have an opinion that is different, and he had the right to voice it at the Oscars.

Just because he has an opinion that is different from the current administration, that doesn't mean that he's "unpatriotic". War (justified or not) does not change that.

[DanS]

So a guy in Hollywood has an entirely different view of the war than a guy in Depoe Bay.

I'm not shocked.

[HOGGEMIN]

The problem is hollywood thinks they are above most of us. there are more anti's in hollywood than in Eugene Or. where they try to shove anti fur, hunting, fishing, and gun down our throats. If you are a anti I hope you die. I have no patients for people that can't coexsist if you don't like hunting don't say anything and I don't care that you do drugs till you puke, just don't puke on me.

[Born to be Wild]

DBD is going to learn how to respond to people respectfully or his views will not be posted.

Thanks and regards,
Dan

[ 03-24-2003, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[Silver Hilton]

Originally posted by HOGGEMIN:


If you are a anti I hope you die.


I have no patients for people that can't coexsist

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Um, didn't you kinda just contradict yourself there, skipper?

I don't have a lot of kind words to say about the anti gun, anti hunting crowd either. But words like that make no friends for our side. Best to realize that folks who grow up in east coast cities just don't understand our way of life, and seek to change that.

[Silver Hilton]

Originally posted by DepoeBayDan:


A small number of Americans honey.

[

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well, recent polls show that its somewhere between 30 and 50% of americans. So, that's between 84 million and 140 million people. I'd be curious to see what you deem to be a 'large number'.

I also would be remiss if I did not point out that calling her 'honey' is patronizing and clearly serves to try to demean her statement without refuting it. It's kinda like her implying that you had no teeth, were married to your sister and lived in a single wide with mold on the walls and cars in the front yard and therefore don't deserve to be listened to, rather than articulately and politely responding to your argument as she did.

[ 03-24-2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Silver Hilton ]

[crabbait]

What causes wars? Man's intolerance of the views, opinions and beliefs of other men.

The constant expression of hatred and disrespect by a few of our members sickens me.

[ 03-24-2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[1pump]

The constant expression of hatred by a few of our members sickens me.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">As it does me.

[24 on/ 48 off]

Me too.

Darn good post, SH.

--spud-- :smile:

[speyfly]

Originally posted by crabbait:
What causes wars? Man's intolerance of the views, opinions and beliefs of other men.

The constant expression of hatred and disrespect by a few of our members sickens me.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Crabbie, you're a very smart man. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[garyk]

Well, well, well, what a difference a couple years make.

Where were the howls of outrage when various right-wingers made careers out of undermining and otherwise walking on the edge of treason in their ceaseless attempts to bring down the Clinton administration?

Fortunately, someone who the corporate media tries to ignore, takes his moment in the spotlight to tell us what so many are afraid to admit - 'the emperor has no clothes'?

Thanks Michael Moore for not being quiet.

[Trophy]

Originally posted by DepoeBayDan:
DBD is going to learn how to respond to people respectfully or his views will not be posted.

Thanks and regards,
Dan

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">What a transformation of attitude! I really like this NEW DBD. :smile:

[Born to be Wild]

Wait a minute crabbait. I don't understand. I was just referring to Stg as honey because she said she was a female on one of thr threads lately. I often times refer to women as honey or sweetheart or something polite. Didn't mean anything discriminate by it however. I was schocked to come back and see that you edited it!

I have nothing against STG. Geez crabbait, show me where I disrespectfully attacked someone!

[Trophy]

Originally posted by crabbait:
What causes wars? Man's intolerance of the views, opinions and beliefs of other men.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">What a sexist remark!

Actually, I thought dumb politicians start war to get re-elected because they don't know how to manage economy, education, corporate corruption, budget, etc. ?

[Lured In]

Did someone see this "dead horse" move or was it not dead after the two Dixie Chicks threads? :whazzup:

Why do I feel like I have seen this movie before (pun intended)?

[speyfly]

DBD, You need some serious counseling if you think that your comments were anything other than degrading. Many work places would not tolerate a statement like that.

[crabbait]

DBD - and anyone else who makes these "innocent remarks": Calling women "honey", "sweetie", "dear", etc, when you are not married to them is a disrepectful attempt to demean them and to dismiss their opinion. Not cool and not tolerated.

Trophy - My use of "man" in this context was inclusive, i.e., "mankind".

[ 03-24-2003, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[Tilla]

I am not threatened by Mr. Moore. I live in a country where you can say things like that, appropriate, not appropriate, right, or wrong.

[feisty's wife]

" Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by crabbait:
What causes wars? Man's intolerance of the views, opinions and beliefs of other men.

The constant expression of hatred and disrespect by a few of our members sickens me.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well said, sweetie. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

(Thank you, dear. - crabbait)

[ 03-25-2003, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[skrimmy]

[quote]Originally posted by The Fishing Geek:

Well said, sweetie.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Mods mocking other mod's remarks isn't cool either. I thought Crabbait made a very good point and this wasn't the time for witty sarcasm. just my opinion, hopefully I don't get smacked for having a valid opinion, but I imagine I will.

[The Fishing Geek]

No smackdown forthcoming, skrimmy. It was just the powers of irony being weilded before you.

Although if it is deemed offensive I have no problem removing it.

[Joe Schwab]

Holyywood is a joke. I purposely chose not to watch the Oscars because I knew some pervert or idiot would make some anti American remark and show their true colors. Pink!

Michael Moore is and has been a joke. Nothing he says could possibly sway my opinion. I you want to listen to him fine, that's your right. Just remember Hollywood glorifies and rewards drug addicts, child molesters, criminals, pornographers and profits immensely off violent movies that have no resemblance to real life.

A columnist recently brought up the McCarthy era and how people were brought before committees to see if they were affiliated with the comminist philosophy. Interestingly enough the person who initiated this program was non other than Robert Kennedy, the darling of the entertainment industry. Joe McCarthy took the heat though. The reason I point this out is the typical Hollywood tactic is hit and run and hide.

Geek, you seem to be a level headed person. (at least when you are lying down) But your comment about tying one's heritage to militaristic ancestry deserves an answer. There is nothing wrong with tying heritage to military ancestry. It has been done for ages and most are quite proud of having done their share. Anyone who has served is not going to sit by and let remarks fly by those who either chose not to serve or were prevented from serving, from going unanswered. Especially from the crowd of war "heroes" who got their combat experience using sound effects and stunt doubles.

Write on, Hollywood. Just think of all the movie material you are going to get out of this war. You will be rich beyond your wildest dreams.

[pdxkevin]

I stand firmly behind his right to speak his mind just as I would stand behind defending all of our other Rights! I don't agree with his view in the least but defend his right to express it peaceably.

As for his "documentry". What a work of fiction. It should be reclassified as fiction and the award should be taken back. There needs to be truth somewhere in a documentry. He spliced together speachs that were from various years and at various venues completely altering the context and reality. His slight of hand and blatant misdirection of the truth obviscates the truth causing lies to live on. Even the title is derived out of a less than forth coming impression - Bowling for Collumbine is based on the premiss that the two had a bowling class in the am at school that morning knowing they would be back to get some of their classmates later that day. Neither attended the class that day. But the implication was that they were - michael moore does not come out and say they were attending the class, he only leaves the impression that they were... there are several site now imerging on the web detailing many more of the lies, half truths, and slight of hand that moore spewed forth in this fiction movie. So if you are interested, please take the time to check them out for your self.

[Straydog]

Capt.,

I find it very ironic that you say the Hollywood types "hit, run and hide" in a thread talking about a Hollywood type standing in front of millions of people live and watching on the tube to denounce a war and an administration he disagrees with.....

I didn't see the show but am told he was joined by many others that felt the same way.

Rumor has it some Longshoremen helped him into the trunk of a car after the show....... is that the type of hiding you are refering to?

Further, if these (insert any of the childish names I have seen refering to actors and their associates) are so meaningless and worthless, why do you use so much of your time, energy and cyber space ragging on them?

Seems to me if they were truly meaningless, the adult thing to do would be to ignore them.

"OOOhhhhh baabbbby, it's a big ol' goofy world.........." John Prine

[The Fishing Geek]

Capt Hook:

I have no problem with a person laying out their ancestor's involvement in the military. I'm just pointing out that it shouldn't be a prerequisite before people assign value a person's pro or anti-war opinions.

What my father, grandfather, and great-grandfather accomplished in their lives have very little if anything to do with the way I form my opinions today. My great-grandfather was an amazing gardener, but that doesn't help my ability to kill silk plants. I would much rather hear what the person has read or what type of experience that the person has that is related to the topic which would give them a particularly high amount of insight.

[24 on/ 48 off]

Who is the real patriot?

This one?

Or this one?

Perhaps you you'd see the whole picture:

--spud-- :smile:

[Gus Orviston]

I am torn on this one....but for starters Moore didn't become a celebrity and then start speaking out. He has been political from day one....and that is great. I don't support his politics but that is why this is a great nation... he has that freedom. He has earned his opportunities to speak out while not cloaking himself as something else along the way.

Now the thing about hollywood "and the public" I can't stand is we honor these idiots who know less than the average person, and when they walk into our town(s) we thing they are perfect. They do a movie, and gain some status that makes them greater than you/I? Then they use that platform (like the dixie chicks) to espouse their limited exposure to the real world.

This is where I say, go ahead and boycott them, but then stop accepting these talking heads into our homes to start off with. Quit giving them the status that they soak up...and abuse. If anyone of us had a microphone...nobody would listen, however, you plop a microphone into Sean Penn's hands and violia he has a podium and an audience. I say one way you can fight this type of disproportional opinion is putting them back into the place they started from...

A great example of our own stupidy is honoring Roman Polanski... do you know why he can't come to the U.S. to receive his award? just sick

gus

[ 03-25-2003, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Gus Orviston ]

[speyfly]

Gus, what makes you think that actors are less informed than any other person. That is like saying that the members of ifish have a higher knowlege of the war which I disagree with. Chances are that they are more informed than many on this BB. Just because they make movies does not mean that they don't do their home work to form the base of their opinion. You have to admit that there are many on the BB that have no facts nor a broad veiw and open mind to understand why we are fighting this war. The human mind is a dangerous thing and if not open, it can cause great damage to a free society.

[Silver Hilton]

Spey,

I tend to think that the highly successful entertainers, as a group, are somewhat less credible than other segments of society for a couple of reasons:

1) They are relatively insulated from working reality as we know it. Generally the successful ones have been incredibly wealthy for a number of years, and have had few people challenging their opinions. Rather, they are in a culture of adulation that validates whatever stupid thing trips off their lips.

2) To be blunt, you don't have to be particularly intelligent, educated, or well read to be an actor. There are obviously those that are, but for every Sean Connery, there seems to be two John Travoltas

3) The entertainment world, as a community, is incredibly inwardly focused. There are cultural blinders there, and any cloistered community sees less than the whole picture, whether it's BFE eastern oregon or Hollywood.

I think this holds true for both ends of the political spectrum. Certainly there are many individuals that demonstrate that this is an overgeneralization, but I tend to listen more to people that are immersed in the issue and have skin in the game. I submit that Noam Chomsky and William F. Buckley's opinions are far more relevent than Sean Penn's and Arnold Schwarzenegger's.

[Kruechief]

Gus,

Roman Polanski cannot come into the USA because he sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl.

But do to his great artistic ability, Hollyweird loves and accepts him while overlooking his heinous act.

It figures though that the French are the ones who gave him refuge.

Krue

[Gus Orviston]

The overall point is not that, but if you want to kibitz or pick at a tertiary comment? then you are right, some of these people know more, some no less, some know the same. but here in lies the point...The public doesn't distinguish between those of knowledge and those without. So I will say it differently. We often allow popularity, due to celeb status, to speak on platforms that were not earned; without a distinction of whether they are even educated adequately on the topic.

gus

[ 03-25-2003, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Gus Orviston ]

[Gus Orviston]

Krue, yeah I know. I was leaving that one open...on purpose. This is the example of what hollywood will accept. If he showed and got arrested I am sure there would be an uproar on how unfair it was, And that I have no doubt.

gus

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by kruechief:
Gus,

Roman Polanski cannot come into the USA because he sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl.

But do to his great artistic ability, Hollyweird loves and accepts him while overlooking his heinous act.

It figures though that the French are the ones who gave him refuge.

Krue

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Don't single out the folks in Hollywood, krue. There's an email floating around that has been posted here at least once showing all of the felons that we, as Americans, have elected to public office.

Mind you, I'm not saying that any of them are worth two bits...just trying to keep things in perspective.

[Stratocaster]

I like it when Mike Moore speaks. His credibility just keeps eroding. I really enjoyed Roger & Me, after that hes gotten very hostile in his views and tactics. Typical Hollyweird stuff, complain on the tube but never offer any solutions. Talk about narcissism to the nth degree. Moores just trying to make money by being outrageous.

[ 03-25-2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

[Lured In]

Originally posted by speyfly:
The human mind is a dangerous thing and if not open, it can cause great damage to a free society.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">My father was fond of this quote...

"Keep an open mind, but not SO open that your brain falls out." Point being, there are extremes on both sides of the spectrum. Those that are narrow minded on one end and those that fail to be able to assemble a coherent thought of their own on the other. Either extreme presents the same level of detriment to a free society.

[ 03-25-2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Lured In ]

[Stratocaster]

Either extreme presents the same level of detriment to a free society. as quoted by Lured In
--------------------

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[ 03-25-2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: fisherdan ]

[speyfly]

Fisherdan's quote..."Moores just trying to make money by being outrageous."

How do you know this to bet a true statement FD? Or are you just making a very uninformed and baseless statement? I would like to see some sort of proof to back up your allegation.

[crabbait]

SH - John Travolta may not have been the example you were reaching for. Regardless of his politics, he is an accomplished pilot who owns and pilots his own fleet of jet aircraft. Not a stuupid guy.

Insert Keanu Reeves for John Travolta in your previous post and the message is much clearer.

[Kruechief]

Speyfly,

It is his (FD's) OPINION!!!! DUH!!!! Do you get it???? :whazzup:

I wish you would for once back off the "show me proof thing, where's your source". My God, you could copy and paste one of your replies and pretty much cover everything you have ever posted. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]

Geek,

I never said that politicians, like Bill Clinton, shouldn't have been prosecuted for their heinous criminal acts. :tongue: :grin:

Krue

[Stratocaster]

Speyfly its just my opinion, nothing more. Hey if you support his beliefs thats fine with me.Hes a little, ok alot over the top for my tastes, thats all. You dont think hes front of the camera alot because he dosent want attention "hey dont go see my movie so i dont make mooore money" that was my point and emphasize "my point".

[Straydog]

Krue,

You're right about Spey's replies, they are all asking for some even slight bit of evidence that what some are saying are true.

How could he be so brazen as to ask for some fact thrown in with opinion...

Do you think we should hang him publicly as you note about about someone that would harm a fire fighter in another post?

Again I ask, what happened to your compassionate view that it is with education that we change people? Not saying that hanging someone dosent change them, just not, once again, consistant with what you said in the past.
I have read all sorts of accusations concerning how people think. How do these posters know how these people think or how educated they are or what thier over all value system is?

I think they are very legitimate questions and points.

And no, I am picking on you or only sticking up for Spey. I haven't met either one of you although someday I hope I can.

For all of you angry people generalizing about the stupidity, unworthiness and overall disdain for the Hollywood crowd I have but two words:

Ronald Reagan.

Now there is a fly for your tunnel visioned ointment!

[ 03-25-2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[speyfly]

krew, thanks for making my point. Opinions are just BS unless you have some information to back them up. I was taught that you should not assassinate a person’s character unless you have walked in their shoes. To pretend to know how someone feels or what they are thinking without some facts to base your opinion on is ignorant.

[The Fishing Geek]

You paraphrased me, but you got the point across.

Of course, with or without my kids involved I might be the worst thing you ever encountered. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[AuntyM]

I might be the worst thing you ever encountered

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Unpleasant perhaps, but certainly not the worst. :grin:

At least I don't have to deal with the offensive avatar you used on another board.

[Tilla]

Only if Polanski had waited a year, he could have married the child legally in Utah.

[Silver Hilton]

Originally posted by crabbait:
SH - John Travolta may not have been the example you were reaching for. Regardless of his politics, he is an accomplished pilot who owns and pilots his own fleet of jet aircraft. Not a stuupid guy.

Insert Keanu Reeves for John Travolta in your previous post and the message is much clearer.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Well, our opinions differ. I've seen him on various talk shows, and am not convinced that he could work a calculator unaided.

Anyway, you get my point.

[Kruechief]

SD,

Compassion is fine and I agree with education. However, when a person jeopardizes others and puts people at risk that is where I draw a line. If that fireman was responding to my house to save my infant children, and he was either delayed or prevented from making it there, because some stupid Anarchist felt that it would be entertaining to do so, I'll bet that you would read the next day how about a dozen or so of them had been retaliated against. There are certain trespasses that demand severe retribution, IMHO.

Do we need to walk around with a book of little known facts in order to be able to communicate now? Or would it simply suffice to caveat everything we write or say with IMHO?

Even the Geek has made it clear, you touch his kids and he'll be the worst thing you have ever encountered.

Unfortunately, many people today do not care about others' children or others' losses. Like I said, Polanski ***** a child, and he is still accepted. Would you care if that fire truck didn't make it in time to my house? Or would it simply be another tragic event that was the preceded by an unfortunate choice by another?

I wonder?

Geek,

You mentioned this in the thread "Who are you" I didn't go back and quote you so if I miss quoted feel free to edit.

Loren

[ 03-25-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: kruechief ]