Cost shifting.

Straydog · 03-09-2003, 07:30 AM

As I said during the measure 28 campaign, we could have paid then or more later.

Oregonians chose to spend more later. Thank the no voters next time you get your Doctor or hospital bill.

Pay more later........

Pete · 03-09-2003, 09:57 AM

Mmmm. I thought the cost shifting happened when we passed measure 5. You mean we did it again?

Thumper · 03-09-2003, 10:40 AM

This brings up the interesting question of whether or not health care is a "right" of all Americans.

Until a few years ago that question was never even considered. People paid for their health care through insurance, from their pockets, or they toughed it out. Then Medicare ruled that for hospitals receiving Part A funds (basically all hospitals) patients who came into the emergency room had to be treated regardless of their financial means. That avenue is now the treatment choice for many poor folks, and it does indeed guarantee the absolute best of care, though at a horrible cost to the rest of us in costs shifted to insurers and to the federal/state care programs.

Is there an inalienable right to health care?

Straydog · 03-09-2003, 12:28 PM

A very good question Thumper.

I don't have the answer.

I guess as with all "rights" we also have to look at the "responsibilty" side of the coin.

The question could be asked, do we have a moral 'responsiblity' to offer all citizens health care?

I guess if we decide 'no' is the answer to that question, the next questions become "who decides who lives and dies" and "do corpses have a 'right' to sit and rot in the gutters or do we have a respsonibilty to deal with them?" Then the question becomes, "who pays for dealing with the corpses?"........

We can run, but can we hide??

[ 03-09-2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Deepslayer · 03-09-2003, 12:31 PM

I am sure the stray dogs running around in the streets would remove most of the corpses! :shocked: :grin: Sorry your moniker made me do it!

Straydog · 03-09-2003, 12:33 PM

Ha!!!!! :grin:
I guess you got me there!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] :grin:

Snapset · 03-10-2003, 10:04 AM

Thumper, that is an excellent question, because by our answer, we can judge the economic evolution of our society. In past centuries, handicapped babies were often not allowed to make it off the delivery table. Those that survived the delivery room most likely were locked away in an upstairs room. We cannot really judge the "Monstrosity" of the treatment, because post-Industrial Revolution economics have truly created a new paradigm.

The question in my opinion is not if, but when? When can we say as a society that we have sufficient wealth to pay for health care for those who cannot or will not pay for it themselves. I would guess inside of 20 years. And after that 20 years, people might feel that we were "Monstrous" for not paying for health care for everybody.

As a person who could be described as a 99th percentile Conservative, I fear that universal health care removes market forces from the equation which will result in more ballooning in the cost of health care. However, I do have a conscience.And I have to ask, is it proper for me to spend thousands for a new boat when neighbors are dying for lack of drugs. This is a big can of worms, and it would take hours for me make a persuasive argument on this forum. As you can see, I have not even convinced myself. It is something all thoughtful people should take the time to see from both sides.

GutshotApe · 03-10-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
"who pays for dealing with the corpses?"........

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">SD - Back in 1967 my ship stopped in Rio de Janiero Brazil for 4 days of I & I. Believe it or not, all the cars in Rio drove around at night without using their headlights....just their parking lights. They'd briefly flash their headlights as they approached an intersection at high speed....more of a warning for pedestrians to "Get the Hell out of the Way! :shocked: " Not all did.

One hapless street bum got hit and killed about 10 PM friday night...his body lying in the 6-lane main street. The driver fled the scene...and probably got away clean. Another street bum from the crowd ripped a large branch off a nearby tree and put it over the corpse so other cars wouldn't run over it. The body stayed there until monday morning when the regular city garbage trucks began running....and took away the remains.

Moral: Make sure our cities have plenty of street trees....we may need 'em.

Snapset · 03-10-2003, 12:53 PM

Good report, nickel. If it wasn't paid for by the pharmaceuticals, I would agree 100 % with the economics.

Straydog · 03-10-2003, 07:24 PM

GSA,

SSSShhheeeessshhhhh!!! I bet that got your attention!

I am glad GP has lots of trees!

BTW, what is I and I? I know of R and R, but not I and I.

GutshotApe · 03-10-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
BTW, what is I and I? I know of R and R, but not I and I.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Probably get in trouble for this......"Intoxication & Intercourse"....

Day Late Fishen · 03-10-2003, 07:30 PM

I voted no on 28 and your welcome!

STGRule · 03-10-2003, 07:46 PM

Day Late? May you and yours forever have what they need, when they need it and as much as they need. May you and yours always be blessed with good health, good job, and good luck. Smileys and laughs?,

Straydog · 03-10-2003, 08:43 PM

GSA,

Oh!!! I just had to ask, didn't I? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

Day Late,

Is your whole life pointless, or just this post? :whazzup:

5-Cents · 03-10-2003, 11:28 PM

I am in the health insurance industry and may be able to give some insight into this matter.

Here is a study done by Cascade Policy Institute about this very issue and how the problem can be solved. For those of you worried about this issue this is one of the best case studies that we have found at my firm. It is one of the studies we encourage our 1000's of clients to look at when searching for health coverage.

To truly understand the entire problem you must be able to look at the issue from all angles and this study does just that.

I hope this helps