Who's the bigger threat NOW?

The Fishing Geek · 03-03-2003, 12:27 PM

North Korea intercepted a US recon plane and locked radar on it. This is really close to being a blatant move to instigate war.

So, is Iraq still the biggest threat to US security, or is it North Korea?

[ 03-03-2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: The Fishing Geek ]

Degner · 03-03-2003, 12:37 PM

Your right.

Nuke'em both

Newbie McNewberson · 03-03-2003, 12:50 PM

Agreed that both threats should be nullified. But, as Aldred Nobel said, "Once there has been invented the 'ultimate weapon,' the threat of war will be too costly, and war itslef will be aboloshed. I believe that nuclear weapons are just that, the "ultimate weapon." The threat of nuclear warfare is too great to presently go to war with Korea, which will destroy the nearest United States ally, probably Tokyo. We are dealing with people who, by all standards, are insane, and should b dealt with delicately, by small-scale methods of assassination or espionage. I believe in this war in principle, but not in action. The cost may be more than we are able to bear.

Thumper · 03-03-2003, 01:19 PM

Some things you do 'cause you can with minimum risk (Iraq), and some things you have to do differently (N. Korea). That is not exactly cutting-edge thinking, is it?

GutshotApe · 03-03-2003, 01:23 PM

I didn't vote.....it depends on what you mean by "threat". North Korea is probably the most likely to do something stupid that could start a war.....in Korea. But I don't feel personally threatened by N.Korea. They can't touch us - yet. Give 'em time and that could change.

Iraq isn't likely to do anything overtly right now.....but Iraq and it's state-sponsored terrorism poses much more of a threat to national security here at home than does N.Korea. :depressed:

So I vote take on Saddam Hussein now and deal with the insane North Korean regime next.....but we need to be prepared to do both at once because a 2-war scenario is very possible. If/when we commit to going into Iraq the North Koreans may think the time is right to invade South Korea again. :shocked: :depressed: :shocked:

Newbie McNewberson · 03-03-2003, 01:29 PM

Thumper: essentially, you are correct in your "digest" of my opinion. I believe that Sadaam should be a smear on the sidewalk. The whole of the North Korean government should be as well. But, each one has to be handled differently, because of different ramifications of action.

CATCH AND EAT · 03-03-2003, 01:45 PM

No vote here either. The focus is Iraq at this time. And we still have not finished the job in Afganistan. Another involvement is not prudent at this time. N. Korea will have it's turn but I doubt it will come to and Iraq type climax. Most likely foreign aid and bribery will solve this problem.

03-03-2003, 02:02 PM

Everything in its time. The fascists that run N.Korea will get theirs eventually.

Newbie McNewberson · 03-03-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
Everything in its time. The fascists that run N.Korea will get theirs eventually.

Fascists, do you mean like the 4 fascist governors who are currently in power in Poland? Really, I don't disagree with the statement, but you are going into a different affair.

03-03-2003, 02:14 PM

Don't know much about local politics in Poland.
Got a link?

Newbie McNewberson · 03-03-2003, 02:21 PM

Go to www.washington.edu email any of our polisci profs. Or, email one of the international law profs. My personal link was professor Jim Creigton, retired.

Newbie McNewberson · 03-03-2003, 02:23 PM

Anyways, you finally get tired of all the rantings in the "protest" board?

speyfly · 03-03-2003, 02:36 PM

Geek, you did not have a button for george.

My vote goes to george [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

northriver1 · 03-03-2003, 02:45 PM

Yes, I agree, I will vote for GWB next time he runs for president.

Stratocaster · 03-03-2003, 02:59 PM

what in the heck is KimJongs problem yesterday he threatenened all out nuclear war. Must be short mans syndrome.China and S. Korea need to step up to the plate here and help ease the situation.

1pump · 03-03-2003, 02:59 PM

Nuclear extortion is a scary business.

Newbie McNewberson · 03-03-2003, 03:08 PM

China, yes. But S. Korea is in no position to help dissolve the situation. Look at it like this... If everyone had nukes, just assuming, what action would be taken? Would you really risk the well being of a nation to achieve political ends? These people are insane! Have I not mentioned that before? It has nothing to do with little man's syndrome. Short, simple taps would suffice. Maybe even a little push for an inside job...

Stratocaster · 03-03-2003, 03:24 PM

The short mans syn. was just a joke. S.Koreans particularly the younger generation seem to be siding a lot with N.Korea, and are against America. That is funny because Kim Jong would like to kill them as well.Probably first.Funny times we live in huh?

Degner · 03-03-2003, 04:07 PM

We should apologize to the North Koreans for our imperialist actions, offer any aid and appeasements they think is fair, pull our troops out of the south lest we provoke the powerful wrath of the north.

After all the above is completed we should push the button and make them glow like a bad batch of K-mart powerbait.

speyfly · 03-03-2003, 04:56 PM

WOW Degner. Looking at your moniker, are you as evil as you sound and look? Make N. Koreans glo. Hmmmmm....... I fear people that say things like that more than I do any terrorist.

monoman · 03-03-2003, 05:08 PM

Japan will nuke North Korea before we get the chance!

GSA
You forgot we have 30,000 US troops just inside South Korea, would you not want us to stand up for them?

Trophy · 03-03-2003, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoman:
Japan will nuke North Korea before we get the chance!

I think you have to have a nuclear weapon before you can nuke someone.

monoman · 03-03-2003, 05:36 PM

Trophy
Some say they do! I'll bet they have been working on them faster in the last few months than any time since 1945!

Trophy · 03-03-2003, 05:37 PM

Besides, they've become a pacifist nation, thus they would want to see a missile coming down on Toyko before they would even start to think about retaliating.

Even with their superior scientific strength, it takes more than a few months to develop a nuclear weapon. :grin: It's not so much time as it is the fissile material :tongue:

[ 03-03-2003, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Trophy ]

monoman · 03-03-2003, 05:51 PM

Trophy
They got it! Maybe more than we think.

Trophy · 03-03-2003, 05:56 PM

monoman,

You might want to contact our State Dept. on this vital information for a sizeable reward. I think you're the only one in the entire world who thinks that Japan has a nuclear weapon, although I haven't asked everyone.

Would you be able to substantiate it a little more? A piece of evidence? :grin:

GutshotApe · 03-03-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoman:
Japan will nuke North Korea before we get the chance!

GSA
You forgot we have 30,000 US troops just inside South Korea, would you not want us to stand up for them?

monoman - Yeah....that's what I meant. If we go to war in Iraq we'd better be ready for war in Korea, too.

Problem is that our 38,000 troops in South Korea aren't enough to stop the million-man North Korean army.....but are way too many to sacrifice.....So we should either bring them out now or be prepared to use tatical nukes to kill hundreds of thousands :shocked: of NKA troops.....because that's what "standing up for them" would mean :depressed: .

03-03-2003, 06:35 PM

Trophy,
Knowing that you are so well informed in history as well as current affairs it's probably a waste of time to post these historical links to Japanese atomic bomb research. And there is no way that the radical right in Japan would have continued to develop the bomb.

http://vikingphoenix.com/public/Japa...5/jp-abomb.htm
http://www.americanfreepress.net/01_...ve_a-bomb.html

[ 03-03-2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Silver Hilton · 03-03-2003, 06:45 PM

It's pretty unlikely that Japan has a either bombs or any other means to deter a significant Korean attack. It's too expensive. While they may have originally been unhappy about forgoeing a military presence, it has since become a considerable economic advantage. By becoming a client of the US military presence, they get the advanatges, wihtout the cost. This is a significant factor in why their economic growth was so strong throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's.

In addition to the economic issues, Japan has a pretty dynamically changing government. Any secret program would be unlikely to stay secret during the various changes of party that are always happening there.

One more argument for eliminating the two party system here.

Trophy · 03-03-2003, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
Trophy,
Knowing that you are so well informed in history as well as current affairs it's probably a waste of time to post these historical links to Japanese atomic bomb research.

You can bet your life on it :grin:

Trophy · 03-03-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
And there is no way that the radical right in Japan would have continued to develop the bomb.

http://vikingphoenix.com/public/Japa...5/jp-abomb.htm
http://www.americanfreepress.net/01_...ve_a-bomb.html

Right again!

If you read both articles, which I'm sure you've read twice before posting, carefully, you'll agree that the authors do not think that Japan is even close to obtaining a nuclear weapons capability. So what's your point, dud?

Day Late Fishen · 03-03-2003, 06:58 PM

Geek , I love your fishing posts man but what is with the anti Bush posts all the time ? Look the guy I voted for ( Howard Phillip's) did'nt get elected ethier. Be patient, the lib's will finish destroying religeon,family,morality,apple pie,evil old whitey,baseball,education,justice system and the military soon enough.

The Fishing Geek · 03-03-2003, 07:04 PM

Huh? I just asked a question about who iFish'ers thought was the bigger threat. Heck, I even held off from voting first so that my vote would blend into the scenery.

Doesn't matter who's in charge in this poll. I just wanted to point out that North Korea's doing some serious sabre-rattling.

As for your comment about the Liberal's destroying that long list of things...give us time. :grin:

03-03-2003, 07:16 PM

Trophy,
I'll type this real slow for you so you can understand.

Try over fifty years of research.

Do you have to use insults to feel like a man?

Day Late Fishen · 03-03-2003, 07:32 PM

Geek I need that piture at the top left of all your posts. Full size image it cracks me up every time.

. If my post is over the top let me know & I will delete it. I used to work with a comrad who had these talking points ready for our dazed & confused coworkers everyday I affectionately called him the
Lunchroom Lenin.

Trophy · 03-03-2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keta:
Trophy,
I'll type this real slow for you so you can understand.

Do you have to use insults to feel like a man?

Tell me who's using insults?

03-03-2003, 08:12 PM

What insults? I'm just trying to give you a chance to learn with out gettind a sore jaw from reading too fast

Ramstrong · 03-03-2003, 08:58 PM

Degner,

Though I don't necessarily know about making the DPRK Army glow, I can tell you what is best in life.

To crush your enemy, see him driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.

Iraq gets it first. I don't think we go to blows with NK. Besides if we do, it'd make Iran very antsy. Seeing as how they were named as part of the axis of evil. I think that's probably the dumbest thing that GWB has done since he took office. Since Khatami has been elected, Iran has been taking steps to normalize relations with the west. Iran was moderating itself until that fateful speach was made. Now Iran wants to normalize with Europe, but by no means with the US. You reap what you sew.

Action in Iraq is justified if you ask me. But what'd I know? I was only an Intelligence Specialist for four years. And you know what they say about military intelligence.

ultralight · 03-03-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ramstrong:
You reap what you sew.

I don't know about you, but I wear what I sew

Quote:

Originally posted by Ramstrong:
Action in Iraq is justified if you ask me. But what'd I know? I was only an Intelligence Specialist for four years. And you know what they say about military intelligence.

Tell us, what do they say about military intelligence? [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

monoman · 03-03-2003, 09:09 PM

trophy
does Japan have the bomb? Who knows, could they with in months? As you read on this subject, take a quess, because thats all anyone has at this point. If they they come out with their bomb, what will the "midget of the north" do?

GSA
I think those artie shells are loaded and ready. I am sure "43" would not let North Korea come into the south without a launch. Would you?

Silver Hilton · 03-03-2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ultralight:
Tell us, what do they say about military intelligence?

Oh, c'mon, that one is so old! It's an oxymoron, like "governmental efficiency", "helpful postal worker", or "boat limit of Springers".

Diehard D · 03-03-2003, 10:42 PM

I agree with Degner. NUKE 'EM BOTH!!! I'm sick of the diplomatic ******** and not getting anywhere. Act before they do. Not realistic but I wish it was that simple. It would save a whole lot of time and worry.

The Fishing Geek · 03-04-2003, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diehard D:
I agree with Degner. NUKE 'EM BOTH!!! I'm sick of the diplomatic ******** and not getting anywhere. Act before they do. Not realistic but I wish it was that simple. It would save a whole lot of time and worry.

Excellent diplomatic theory! Instead of working with these folks, just pull out The Bomb and wipe them off of the face of the planet! Of course, that type of aggressive action without regard for human life or world environment will surely unite most of the world against us. Heck, we could very well expect the same treatment directed back at us once we elevate the bar like this.

No biggie, though. As long as we get our testosterone rush from turning Iraq and North Korea into glass sculptures then that's okay.

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Straydog · 03-04-2003, 06:08 AM

Diehard has shown his terrorists colors on the war protest thread by stating he "hopes you lose family members to terrorists."

This current post of mental manure supports his terrorist mindset.

03-04-2003, 06:45 AM

Geek,
I don't agree on nuking them but diplomacy (at least Clinton/Notbright diplomacy) has been proven to be a waste of time with the N. Korean and Iraqi governments.

Kruechief · 03-04-2003, 06:47 AM

Was the US plane shot down by North Korea in 1969 unmanned?

Krue

GutshotApe · 03-04-2003, 07:02 AM

Krue - The NKoreans shot down a C-121 Constellation, I think, that had 31 Americans on board, killing all of them.

In 1968 they attacked the USS Pueblo, killing one US sailor, Duane Hodges of Creswell, Oregon, and then boarded and seized the ship and its surviving crew of about 100....and kept them for a year. They still have our ship.

I was aboard the first US ship to respond to the Pueblo's capture and we were off Wonsan harbor the next morning at 5 AM locked & loaded, waiting for daylight to go in, shoot the place up, recapture the Pueblo, and tow it out of the harbor into the Sea of Japan. We had North Korean PT boats circling on the horizon and were overflown at low altitude by a Russian Bear bomber. Those were some tense moments.

The current North Korean antics are merely a continuation of our relationship that has existed since 1953 - an uneasy armistice or truce - with an insane North Korean regime that is capable of just about anything......including shooting down unarmed US aircraft in international airspace :shocked: and boarding & capturing US ships outside the territorial waters :depressed: .
]
Don't rule anything out with the North Koreans.

03-04-2003, 07:02 AM

No.

"Davis said it was the first confrontation of its kind since August 1969 when a North Korean plane shot down a U.S. EC-121 surveillance plane, killing 31 Americans."

North Korean jets intercept U.S. plane

Degner · 03-04-2003, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by speyfly:
WOW Degner. Looking at your moniker, are you as evil as you sound and look? Make N. Koreans glo. Hmmmmm....... I fear people that say things like that more than I do any terrorist.

And I thought I had a nice smile.

Otolith · 03-04-2003, 08:04 AM

It is common knowledge that Japan does not have now, or intend to have in the future, any nuclear weapons. The have a self-imposed nuclear arms ban. It is law.

Kruechief · 03-04-2003, 08:32 AM

And this is coming from the nice people who brought to us Pearl Harbor.

Krue

monoman · 03-04-2003, 08:33 AM

It's the "intend to" part that you may have wrong. There is a lot written on the subject, by some really good sources and some really bad ones.

The problem with common knowledge, it does not include that intended to be kept secert. We would be in a better spot right now with Saddam if common knowledge were always true.

03-04-2003, 08:52 AM

Otolith,
"It is common knowledge that Japan does not have now, or intend to have in the future, any nuclear weapons. The have a self-imposed nuclear arms ban. It is law."

Good one [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] And the Yakuza doesn't have any guns It is law.

There is a large group of far right Japanese that still think they are at war with us. They could have developed nuks.
They are good researchers and scientists. Before WWII they had the strongest navy in the world and the best fighter aircraft ( Japanese Zero )and good light machine guns (Nambu).

Don't kid yourself, they could have nukes.

Otolith · 03-04-2003, 08:55 AM

Hey, believe what(ever conspiracy) you want.

03-04-2003, 09:07 AM

Naw. I don't know either way but there's a chance that it's happened. Like I posted, just because the Japanese Constitution prohibits it it doesn't make it impossible to do. If the French can build one the Japanese could do it in their sleep. They're an overall intelligent and motivated race.

The Fishing Geek · 03-04-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kruechief:
And this is coming from the nice people who brought to us Pearl Harbor.

Krue

That was 60 years ago, Krue. It's time to let go. Things change. Countries change.

Are you still holding grudges against Italy, too? You shouldn't, as they have since exported Aria Giovanni. :shocked:

03-04-2003, 10:19 AM

Geek,
I didn't see it as "Japan bashing", just an observation. And what did the Italians do, invade Ethiopia?

monoman · 03-04-2003, 01:01 PM

Geek
I for one am not bashing anyone.
I will not forget or should anyone forget Pearl Harbor. History is what reminds us. I know men who were in the South Pacfic in WWII, they will never forget. You must not let it consume you, but to forget is to dishonor those who died and those who lived so you are free.

Cool Texan · 03-04-2003, 01:12 PM

Geek never said to forget it....but merely to let go and move on. Words well spoken.

Geek...this makes 2 times now I believe. :smile:

monoman · 03-04-2003, 01:22 PM

Oh so cool! "Let it go" "move on". Ok I'll move on!