Excuse me while I sizzle at Sony SUCCESS!

Jennie@ifish · 02-28-2003, 02:37 PM

I just cannot believe this one!

Andrew got a Sony laptop through a medical thing that he was awarded. He was blind until he was 8, and now sees, with difficulty, out of one eye.

He needs the Sony to do homework. Specifically, the floppy.

I borrowed the laptop to take with me to the Sportsman Show. It was there, that I realized the floppy didn't work.

So, sure enough, I get home, and it's two days out of warranty. I call Sony, and they were SO helpful on the phone.

They waved the warranty time, assured me it would be fixed, after troubleshooting didn't help, and sent me a box to send it in with.

I told the lady that the latch was broken, and that all we needed fixed was the floppy. She had no problem with that.

So, I get the box, mail it in and one week later....

I get an envelope in the mail, with a bill for 1330 dollars!

What is it for???

It says the computer has been tampered with, that the USB port was broken, (Which we all know it wasn't, because you witnessed the eye cam that displayed the Sports show, remember? It plugs into a usb port! It works!) They say the C moss battery was gone, and that the motherboard is broken! They say the computer laptop was tampered with and opened! They say the keyboard is broken, too!

?????

So, certainly thinking this was a terrible mistake, I called them.

"NOPE!" This is no mistake! They insist the computer laptop was tampered with!!! They will NOT repair anything on it, and I need to pay 26.00 to even get it back, and... to top it off, they say it doesn't run now!

I am just sizzled! What a thing to do to anyone, let alone a kid that needs to see to work!

They gave me three options with the letter.

1, repair at 1330.00....

2. Pay 26.00 and we'll mail it back to you, not in the shape you mailed it out, and

3. Give us permission to dispose of it!!!!

WHA???

I am still in shock over this! That laptop cost 1400 bucks and Andrew loved it! It worked! It worked! The floppy didn't, but the rest was fine! The CD! The Hardrive, everything!

Would a computer even run without a c moss battery?

Is there anything I can do?

To top it off, two of the three people I spoke to were as rude as I have ever witnessed customer "service" be, no matter how calmly I explained the situation.

Here is what they listed as wrong with the laptop:

UNIT TAMPERED WITH BROKEN USB PORTS, RJ45 CONNECTOR ON MAINBOARD, MISSING CMOS BATTERY

Then, in the normal repairs....
FDD UNIT ASSV
LATCH
MAIN BOARD ASSY
COMBO DRIVE UJDA7`
KEY BOARD UNIT (US)
SECONDARY BATTERY
FP71A SNT (U) ASSY
SCREW (M2.6) CROSS

All for the low price of 1340.49!!! WHOOOO HOOOOOO!!!

Oh! I forgot! And then, she said, "I'm sorry, Ma-am," and hung up the phone on me!

???
Jen

[ 07-02-2003, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

The Fishing Geek · 02-28-2003, 02:42 PM

The first thing that I would do would be to verify the serial number on the laptop that they have in front of them to make sure that it is your laptop. If it is, then it sounds like it may have happened while shipping. If that's not the case, I would start heading up the food chain at Sony's tech support to let them know that there has been a horrible mistake.

Civility goes furthest, even when dealing with complete idiots.

STGRule · 02-28-2003, 02:42 PM

Jennie: Did they mix yours up with a different one? Do you have the serial number for your machine? Ask them for the serial number on the one they say is yours. I'm betting they don't match.

The Fishing Geek · 02-28-2003, 02:43 PM

Geez, STG. I already told her that a half millisecond ago. Come up with something new, eh?

STGRule · 02-28-2003, 02:46 PM

So you type faster than me, I can take it, I'm a big girl. (sniff)

Jennie@ifish · 02-28-2003, 02:47 PM

I have the serial number, but I can't get to the repair center. They send me to tech support, and its all done across country or something.
I asked to verify that, and they said, "Hold please." and I waited for 15 minutes and gave up.

I guess I'll have to do it again.

:depressed:

Jen

Hogmaster · 02-28-2003, 02:50 PM

Make sure the serial numbers err...

Nevermind.

Actually, TFG is right, the food chain climb is ever important. And document the specific names and times along the journey. This will lend itself to the letter we can help you write to the N American Division head of Sony. They will be most interested to hear how your Cmoss battery was removed and the USB ports were trashed on a computer that several people took snap shot images of camera shots and posted in the Sportsman's show thread on your board, remember?

About 4000 pairs of eyes would be an interesting bit of testamony on this one...

Jennie@ifish · 02-28-2003, 02:50 PM

I think I'll just cry.
That always fixes things.
I never buy anything from the Schwann man, but I just bought ice cream. That's it. I'll just eat ice cream and cry.
:depressed:

Jen

Hogmaster · 02-28-2003, 03:11 PM

Now, Now. Your writing skills have great power. Unfortunately, this may take some time. That is too bad, but take a breath and gather your facts. Right now document who you have talked to up to this point, while it is still fresh in your mind.

By way of example, I have gotten a car replaced after a year's worth of usage for free. Just got told to go pick another one. And no, the Lemon law was not invoked. But the letter pointed out how the dealer's reputation was suffering from all the negative exposure. Written words are very powerful...

What you will want to do is verify they are indeed looking at Andrew's machine. If they say the numbers match, ask them how the shipment was receivced. Document each answer. Then leverage ifish into your conversations. "You realize that there are hundreds of people that will disagree with your premise that I tampered with this laptop don't you?" "This unit is a tool for both my son's medical needs as well as a remote communication device for a 4300 member organization that is on line providing constant real time feedback to issues. I can assure you that not only will they back up my claims that the machine was not tampered with, but they will form opinions of Sony based upon how my problem is dealt with. I sure would hate to see Sony get a big black eye from a misunderstanding"

This is not anything but persausive statements of fact... Hopefully it won't have to get to the letter stage, but if it does you can get satisfaction. Guaranteed!

Jennie@ifish · 02-28-2003, 03:15 PM

I don't want to threaten bad press.
I don't deserve a new computer for Andrew.
I just want my old one back, (still working, floppy or not!) and I don't feel I should have to pay 26.00 to get it back!
I don't want a free ride out of this. I just want to talk to someone that trusts me, and knows that I don't disassemble computers and take out cmoss batteries for the fun of it!!
Jen

[ 02-28-2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

Hogmaster · 02-28-2003, 03:26 PM

Of course you do (and don't). But the fact is that somehow something got messed up between the time you sent said computer to their service dept.

If you followed their instructions for that, they need to "make you whole". If the unit truly is damaged, it may have been in transit. That may be a shipper claim. But Sony has to believe you before they will take it up with the shipper or perhaps the no knuckle Ned who might have dropped it, right?

So, it isn't a matter of getting something you don't deserve. It is a matter of being treated fairly, and the "threat of bad press" has a point of leverage to get them to listen that they might not otherwise. It is not the lead in your explanation, but if they aren't listening the reality is that they deserve bad press. Keep that in perspective. You are the victim, not the bully...

Jennie@ifish · 02-28-2003, 04:35 PM

How could a c moss battery fall out? If even...

I just have no clue. I really think some mistake has been made, and I'm not finished with this.

Just what I need... another project! But, you know.. I kept wanting to say to them, "Oh, no no no... You have it wrong, this is Jennie! I am honest!" It's so frustrating to be treated like a liar! She kept insisting I had, or Andrew had "tampered" with it!

Good thing I have pictures of the USB port functioning!

SHEESH!

Jen

Fshklr · 03-03-2003, 11:33 PM

how about consumer affairs to register a complaint?
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/sony.htm
Hopefully it is the wrong serial # in question and it gets straightened out soon.

Otolith · 03-04-2003, 07:47 AM

I believe the CMOS battery is used to store some info and settings (like Clock time) when the computer is not plugged in or doesn't have a charged battery in it.

It can't fall out. You have to open up the laptop to get at it, and then unplug it.

The Fishing Geek · 03-04-2003, 09:39 AM

If the motherboard is broken like they claim, then the CMOS battery could very well have come out during whatever martial arts demonstration they did to make it that way.

Any info on this? I submitted it to a consumer affairs radio show (nationally-syndicated, no less) so if you get contacted, I'm the guily party.

Jennie@ifish · 03-04-2003, 10:19 AM

I took a very deep breath and called them this morning.
Was put on hold a couple times, but I have always been impressed with how short their wait time is, compared to other large computer companies.
Anyway, I nicely explained that there "must be some mistake" to the supervisor.

He wasn't available at first, but did take my number and did call me back.

He will call me back later today to let me know what he found out from the repair shop.

He said that maybe it could have been damaged in transit, although they have very strict measures to follow when getting a damaged box.

But, if it were dropped, would the box necessarily show damage? Laptops can get screwed up just by jarring, can't they?

I don't know. Glad I have the serial number, and the pictures of proof that it was working right before that.

He was very kind and patient. We'll see what turns up.

I just can't forget the first very kind lady who said, "We'll get this fixed for you!" and also told me that we could just take out the floppy and send it in to be fixed, but she wanted to make sure that it was only the floppy, and not more, so please send in the whole thing so we can do it right!"

They did it right, alright.
"But not for me."

Jen

[ 03-04-2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

The Fishing Geek · 03-04-2003, 10:39 AM

For the damage that you have described to have happened, they would have had to have done some serious damage. Yes, the box would have shown that. Most certainly.

Keep us updated.

Jennie@ifish · 03-05-2003, 08:11 AM

UPDATE:

I didn't receive a call back from Sony yesterday.

On Monday, I sent in a check for 26.00 to return my laptop unfixed.

Today, I received an e mail that they have fed exed my laptop back to me, overnight priority.

I don't know if they already received and processed my request via mail, (doesn't that seem really fast?) or they resolved something and fixed it? Or???

Poor communication, at best.

When it arrives, I am going to open the box, and check the condition of the laptop before I accept it... and check the serial number.

Jen

The Fishing Geek · 03-05-2003, 08:26 AM

Please do. This sounds simply way too strange.

Jennie@ifish · 03-05-2003, 05:35 PM

OK... Ralph called, and he said that this is way wearder than life, itself.

I agree.

I wake up this morning to the fed ex notice, thinking... "Gosh! That was quick!"

Well, Ralph called over to the repair center, and Wendy, the gal that got upset and hung up the phone on me, had called over, and told them to send the unit back to me, free of charge. Well, that was nice of her!

Now, no one in repair can do a thing, because the unit is gone! No one can prove that it was the right machine, or the wrong one.

Ralph agreed that it would be really difficult to remove the c moss battery, and that you have to remove the entire keyboard to get at it. (Thus, damaged keyboard... uh huh).

Ralph is nice, so far... However, I'm a bit perturbed, and he is weirded out that things are so bizarre.

The first gal, had indeed, gone to the trouble to get it done through warranty. However, she failed to pass that news along to the repair center.

Here is what he has told me to do.

When the computer shows up tomorrow, (bummer, cuz I'll be in the hospital), I'm suppose to accept it, open the box, and see what kind of condition it is in, and report it.

I will not do that! I will take it to a repair center, here locally, and have THEM open the box. Therefore, I'll have some kind of proof of the condition, when opened.

Then, I am to call him and let him know. I may be sending it right back to them.

Who knows what will happen, but he is referencing all of our conversations to the head office in New Jersey... Probably just to pacify me, but we'll see.

Jen

salmurai · 03-05-2003, 08:08 PM

Jen, Please keep us posted on this one.....

Vinny · 03-08-2003, 05:54 AM

I own several Sony products. Good Stuff.
I have also found their customer service to be less than desirable.

After reading this, I may never buy another Sony product as long as I live.

(I still don't shop at Sears. In the 1980's they were Convicted of sabatoge and scare tactics, to obtain extra work, in their auto repair centers in California.)

The Fishing Geek · 03-08-2003, 06:19 AM

Update, Jennie? We can't keep these torches burning forever!

Jennie@ifish · 03-08-2003, 07:40 AM

OK, got the computer back on Thursday, after the hospital procedure.
Got the camera out, and Bill took pictures as I opened it.

There is a USB port missing!

The rest looks the same. The computer keyboard does not look damaged, and they said it was. Also, Ralph had told me that you have to remove that to remove the C Moss battery. Doesn't look like it happened?

Plugged it in, plugged a mouse into the other remaining USB port, and it works. The date is right, which I think the C moss controls...

I can't find anything else any different. The serial numbers match...

The USB port has the hole there, but no USB thing that makes it plug in.

It said on the papers that (plural) USB port(s) are broken. Hmm...

So, my instructions were to call Ralph, when I got the computer on Friday. I had told him I would be in the hospital on Thursday.

So, on Friday, as scheduled, as he told me to do, as he gave me a direct line to do, I called.

I got this:

"This is Ralph at Sony. I will be out of the office until ..." I don't know, sometime next week.

Now, tell me he didn't KNOW he was going to be off work for a week, when he told me to call, on Friday?

Sheesh.

We'll just see what happens. I kind of feel like they'd like this to just go away.

Anyone want to call Ralph and say hi?

Jen

crabbait · 03-08-2003, 07:46 AM

Yes! Post his number and we can leave him some voice mails to listen to as soon as he gets back!

The Fishing Geek · 03-08-2003, 08:02 AM

Bring on the phone number, Jennie. He needs a full voicemail when he gets back.

Jennie@ifish · 03-09-2003, 04:40 AM

I doubt it will make much difference. If anything, won't it make him mad?

I don't know if I want to make them mad. He was very nice on the phone... But... here it is!!!

1.239.768.7548

He is a supervisor, and his name is Ralph.

Note: It is not toll free!!!

Jen

Otolith · 03-09-2003, 07:25 AM

Vinny is right.

When you consistently get this type of service from a company, you no longer give them business. AND you convince everyone you ever talk to not to give them business either.

I do not now, or will I ever again have an account of any type (cell phone, cable, long distance, local phone, broadband internet, etc.) with AT&T. I don't care if they are they only company that can provide such service or have some new great product that I want and can't get elsewhere. AT&T will never get another penny of mine.

salmurai · 03-11-2003, 07:38 PM

Jennie, let's be nice first and see where it gets us(YOU). If that doesn't work then give us his phone number. I don't care if it isn't toll free. If he needs to have "an inspirational chat" then lets give him several. later......

Bait O' Eggs · 03-12-2003, 06:35 AM

Sounds like a trip to Frys in Wilsonville for some new parts and a screwdriver and you will be back up and running.

A couple weeks ago I was trying to upload some software for my new dig camera, and found out the CD drive didnt work anymore

And while I had the cover off I found out what that annoying metal on metal sound I have been listening to for a while

. The Fan on the CPU chip had a bearing going out. Went to Frys and for $29 for a new CD drive, and $7 for a fan and about an hour of work I was back up and running. There has to be 50 guys on this site that could stick a new floppy in your computer and the floppy probably doesnt cost as much as the freight to ship the computer back to the factory.

If you want it done right the first time, do it yourself.

The Fishing Geek · 03-12-2003, 06:53 AM

BOE:

If only fixing laptops were that easy. Most of the parts need to be ordered directly from the vendor, and they definitely need someone familiar with the repair of laptops to get them fixed. Nothing like a desktop computer that most any thumbless Joe can work on. Heck, not even I will do hardware work on a laptop, outside of RAM or a hard drive.

Jennie@ifish · 03-12-2003, 09:58 AM

They even told me, over the phone, that the floppy drive is probably fine. It is the Motherboard that is not telling the floppy to work right.
So, the Motherboard is out, which makes me understand why they won't fix it. Motherboards aren't cheap..
They sure went through a lot of trouble though, to avoid fixing it!
I just had the same trouble with my dell. My floppy went out. They would not admit it was the motherboard, even though I suggested it, until the tech came and performed 1000 tricks otherwise.
Like, "did you reinstall the OS?" Man, that's a famous one!

Yes! I did!

At least Dell owned up to it, and replaced it under warranty.
Jen

[ 03-12-2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

Jennie@ifish · 03-14-2003, 09:28 AM

It is now March 14th. His voice mail says he will be back March 12th. No word.

Looks like his voice mail is full, because I just called and at the end of his saying he will be back in the office March 12th, it hangs up, instead of leaving the option for a message.

I guess my case is closed.

???

Jen

The Fishing Geek · 03-14-2003, 10:11 AM

Keep the updates coming. We'll get their attention.

Gus Orviston · 03-15-2003, 07:06 PM

jen, What model, CPU, speed and OS is the Sony, didn't catch it if it was stated in this thread? I have quite a few machines in the bone yard and a few of those are Sony NBs. If I had an extra floppy we might solve it easy enough.

Also there are USB floppy solutions out there so this isn't a dead end.

gus

Jennie@ifish · 03-16-2003, 06:03 AM

Dear Gus,
As I stated earlier, we don't believe it is the floppy. I think it is the mother of all boards.

:smile:

Jen

It is the Costco model:

PCGFXA350

Gus Orviston · 03-16-2003, 09:09 AM

Jen, check your mail.

If you would like to borrow a notebook w/a functional floppy until you get this resolved I would be happy to provide you with a loaner....It will be an Intel based of course

.

Like I said in my email...I have a few around.

There are a few ways to get around the floppy; 1) use PCMCIA Cardbus memory card, 2) USB memeory or 3) USB floppy; as long as the teacher has a notebook these would work fine. Even so, if the teacher has a desktop with USB, #2 and #3 solutions will also work just as well. I have each of these solutions that you can use, let me know.

gus

jdbrightfish · 03-16-2003, 09:14 AM

DID YOU INSURE IT THROUGH WHOEVER YOU SHIPPED IT WITH? IF YOU DID AND IT WAS BROKEN DURING SHIPPING THE INSURANCE COULD HELP WITH SOME OF THE COSTS IF YOU INSURED IT FOR ENOUGH.

Jennie@ifish · 06-25-2003, 01:20 PM

Does anyone have any idea how I can write a letter to Sony coorporate?
I thought I'd write one last very nice letter before I throw the Sony in the trash.
I just took it to a computer doctor who told me that the screws are missing that screws it together, and it has been put together wrong.

I am so confused about this, and someone suggested that perhaps maybe where I bought it, (Costco) that they might have given me a reject in the first place and we just never noticed the screws missing??? Is that possible?
I have a call into Costco and they are trying to get me the right people to talk to.

If anyone knows a Sony biggie, could you let me know?

Jen

CHUMSALMON · 06-25-2003, 01:49 PM

jennie,
though i don't know about writing a letter to sony and i don't know if this will help at all but, maybe it will. Costco has a pretty good return policy even with there computers. If you still have all the paper work for the computer you may just try and return it to costco. My inlaws did this just about a year ago with a home pc they bought at costco. They had the computer for over a year and it just decided to die, nothing worked and it was supposedly unfixable, so long story short they took it back to costco and got there choice of money back or another computer. No hassle, no games. They were told it was no big deal, they would just send it back and would recieve a credit for the computer. I personally was shocked that it was that easy but, this may be worth a try. I sure hope this gets resolved. Good luck, I'll be curious to hear the results.
Chumsalmon

Jennie@ifish · 06-25-2003, 03:05 PM

I have the receipt but not any of the packaging.

I have talked to the manager at Costco. We'll see what happens. They have always been very good to their customers.

Jen

BrionLutz · 06-25-2003, 03:18 PM

Jennie,

Do a nice, personal letter (don't use mailing labels), try and make it look like a person to person letter. It'll get to his handlers.

Mr. Howard Stringer
Sony Corporation
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022-3211

Lay it on thick...a few tear drops on the page..remember they are in the entertainment biz.

Interesting thread to me as I was considering a Sony since the screens are sooooo gorgeous and they have the DVD burner built in and they are soooo easy on video/pix interfaces.

Brion

Miss B Haven · 06-25-2003, 03:26 PM

Jennie- Try this number and see if they can tell you who to call. Tell em... well, tell em whatever you want, the truth usually works. You do own 200,000 shares don't you? :smile:

Sony Corporation of America
Investor Relations
550 Madison Avenue, 27th Floor,
New York, NY 10022-3211
Phone : - U.S. and Canada
800- 556-3411
- International
1-402-573-9867
Facsimile : 1-212-833-6938

BTW- Direct marketing like Dell does NOT work unless you have good service. Dell has direct lines and no middle man to take the heat and the grief of something like this.

[ 06-25-2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

2LEYS · 06-25-2003, 03:54 PM

I used to work for Sony a few years ago but they just shut down their Oregon site...sorry

Robalo Bill · 06-29-2003, 02:01 PM

Jennie
I'm new to this site and this thread, I've read your tale...what's happened to you is awful. What you have described with Sony is pretty well business as usual. I have a passion for electronics...not Sony..I have never had good service or products from them (nor HP for that matter). It's aggravating and a total waste of your time dealing with people like this. I'm sure there are plenty members out there that could fix this laptop correctly for much less than you think. My wife has a corporate account at COSTCO and any problems that she has ever had with any product, any length of time, warranty or not she heads back to COSTCO. She has never had an issue with COSTCO replacing or refunding her purchase. Costco buys by the traincar load and are in much better bargaining position than us individuals. If they get too many of one item in returns, they will stop caring it and put the onus on the vendor.
Bill

Jennie@ifish · 07-02-2003, 06:31 AM

Success at last!

I can't believe this, but I took Chumsalmon's advice, and called Costco.
Costco had absolutely NO obligation to do anything, and I was sure to let them know that I knew this.
However, I told the manager my story, and he.... LISTENED! He cared! He was interested!
I just kept telling him that I realized that the warranty or any responsibility from Costco was expired, but asked him if he knew who, at Sony, that I could talk to?

So, he told me that the Costco policy is to try and make the customer happy. Believe me, they go to GREAT lengths to do this!

He told me that he was going to call Sony to see what could be done, and that he would call me back. Well, he didnt call me back. It is the Fourth of July busy week, and he also had to go out of town.

So, I spoke with another manager, who told me she would talk to him again.

Long story a little less long, she asked me to bring it in, so I did.

They were very busy on Sunday, so I opted to leave the Sony with them.

Yesterday, I got a call from the Computer buyer in Idaho, from Costco. She had done extensive research on the computer, with Sony. Sounds like she took a lot of time on this matter, too!

Anyway, she said that somehow, my computer had probably gotten mixed up with another, or somehow got broken and not reported, or something. It would take hours of research to find out the whole story, so they just wanted to replace it for me.

WHAT? I was incredulous! It wasn't one, two three easy, like Chumsalmon said, and I don't believe that you can just take any computer in, after six months. They did some homework on my case.

I have been found innocent! :smile:

So... On Thursday, Andrew and I get a full refund on his laptop, and he will be choosing a new one!

Whooo hoooo, Costco! Thank you!
:grin:
Jen

ORrinker · 07-02-2003, 06:58 AM

Congratulations!!!! One more reason to patronize Costco. They seem to have the Les Schwab philosophy that success only comes through happy customers.

Randy

Cool Texan · 07-02-2003, 07:54 AM

That is awesome!

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Miss B Haven · 07-02-2003, 08:03 AM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Doesn't good service just make you want to do cartwheels and handsprings sometimes? :grin:

Too bad I'm too old for that stuff, I guess maybe just a kind word of thanks and a letter to the persons boss will have to do.

Otolith · 07-02-2003, 08:49 AM

And when you get that refund, you will be putting it down on a nice new Dell, right? :smile:

Fast Water · 07-02-2003, 01:33 PM

All Riiiight!!

The way it should be.....

:grin:

Jennie@ifish · 07-02-2003, 02:15 PM

I would prefer a Dell, by far. However, I feel indebted to Costco for their service, and will do business with them in return.

Andrew has one all picked out. :smile:

Jen

JCJ · 07-03-2003, 07:28 PM

Hey Jen,who did you talk to at Costco? Was it Ben,he is the warehouse manager,I used to work with him at the Clackamas warehouse.He goes to extremes to take care of the member.But with our return policy you would be surprised at the weirdness of the items that are returned.We get cakes that are gone except for 1 piece and they say they did not like it.We get wine that is 7 years old and they say they changed their mind.We get rings,bracelets and watches that someone needed something fancy to go to a party with and then when its over here it comes back.But we truly try to help those that need help like in Andrews case,if its a genuine problem they try everything to fix it but then we get the people that work the system and those are easy to spot but we just smile and take it back anyway for customer service.

Sea Jypzee · 07-03-2003, 07:32 PM

Jen - I am so glad to hear the great news from Costco. I agree with the others, and this makes me even more confident in doing my business with them now and in the future.

Congrats on success finally!