My brother-in-law J....

[Kruechief]

It is almost two years since J took his own life. He was upset and depressed after getting his 3rd or 4th DUII and drove down to the beach and shot himself.

He left behind my sister and their beautiful daughter... it's so sad.

I went up to visit yesterday and my sister gave me his hunting rifle. It's a post '64 mdl 70 Featherweight in 30.06.

I started to clean the dust off and set it up with a Redfield 3x - 9x and I just broke down for a long time.

I just keep thinking about how an addiction can ruin so much.

I get so mad at the courts that only want the money that a working family has to pay. The cops, DA, judges, courts, bogus treatment providers and the remainder who suck the money out of the families and make them suffer because a member of their family has a disease. I also get to where I hate MADD and all the misery they have brought to my family with their crusades of punishment but not caring to help those dealing with the addictions. They give a crap less that people are legislatively robbed and no treatment is done. The cops pulled him over, booked him and released him with the gun and truck he used to end his life. I wish each of them could have gone with my sister to clean up the mess that J left in the cab of his truck that morning. God knows she and my niece are still cleaning and suffering from the guilt and sadness

J has no idea how much he is missed. All this loss and no one is accountable.

I just had to say it somewhere.

Loren

[Crayfin]

My thoughts are with you Fella. I just lost me aunt a few days ago and you kinda get thinking about things. It is never easy and I wish you well.

Crayfin

[Thumper]

Krue --- My heart goes out to you and your sister and her daughter. You refer to "J's" problem as an illness, one that everyone chose to ignore. You stated:

"All this loss and no one is accountable."

I think that your grief has caused you to overlook one important factor. Alcohol abuse for most is not an illness. "J" had a problem and he chose the coward's way out. The answer to your question is that "J" was accountable, and he chose the easy way to deal with it. No one else is responsible. No one.

Of course none of that helps your grief. But alcohol abuse is just that --- abuse. And the abuser is the one responsible.

I lost a stepdaughter to a drunk driver. He maintained that he was ill. He was lying to himself.

Alcohol abusers need to take responsibility for their own actions. Society is not responsible for the actions of the abuser.

[The Fishing Geek]

Krue:

I have a sister that currently is leading a very dangerous life with alcohol. As you seem to be critical of the system and how it treats those convicted of DUII (as am I), I'm curious to find out what you think should happen to those who are convicted.

[Kruechief]

Geek,

It is so hard to deal with all the feelings associated with this. I feel that instead of threatening J and then letting him off with fines contributed to his suicide. The judge told him that the next time he would be locked up for a year. J was an outdoorsman and could not face that he might be losing his freedom and the guilt of putting my sister through another trip to hell.

Geek, they should have held him without bail. Instead they released him on and then allowed him to return less then 6 hours later to get his truck with the handgun he used.

Thumper is right in some ways, but not all. First of all, I am sorry for your loss too Thumper. In regards to J, he was buying beer for his dad when he was 10-years-old. One alcoholic passes it on to another. I believe that alcoholism is or at least can be genetically passed on. I know because I can feel the craving at times clawing at me. J was not a coward he was a life long addicted person who was ill. I know that it is hard for people like us to understand this type of sickness however, be sure that it is an illness and for some it is as devastating as polio or any other. Thumper, when I get the craving I refuse to drink. If I do drink on occasion I stop before I end up wasting my career or causing undue hardship and embarrassment to my family. Thank God I can. Some can’t.

Geek, where is your sister at in the problem? Has she had legal problems yet? Does she miss work or not take of her family? Do you know if she has blackouts?

These are critical to figuring out where she is at.

Geek, I think that they ought to have interventions that address the issue. But I don’t think that their families should be made to suffer. I like the cognitive reality models and also direct in your face reality using truth. Make them talk with my sister and have her describe what it was like to clean up the cab of the truck where her husband committed suicide. Or how about my niece who was ridiculed at school because of it. What about people like Thumper who has suffered losses due to an alcoholic’s disregard for the welfare of others?

I have used reality in the youth prisons for years. It’s amazing what happens when there is a face on the victims and it is undeniably no different then yours.

Loren

[sinker]

I had a friend/co-worker who recently received his 4th and 5th DUI's within about 2 weeks of each other. The state had him in treatment, classes, you name it. He's now sitting in jail awaiting sentencing. The judge set bail but they couldn't find a bondsman that would cover him.
Where he failed was he didn't want help. He wanted to keep going down the path he was going down.
It all comes down to hitting bottom. Everyone's level of bottom is different. With some it's the cost of the first DUI for others it's the cost of taking another human life and for others it's putting a gun to your head.
Personally I can't see putting a gun to my head for any reason at all. There's been times I've felt like giving up on everything and finding a way to start over but I too have a young daughter and a wife. It's no longer about me it's about US.

[Kruechief]

Your right sinker,

and the US is the most important.

It's amazing how much we are loved if we just open our eyes and see it.

Loren

[FishBowl]

Krue
I feel for you and love you like a brother, as you well know this could have been me or you that chose this path, alcohol is a deadly drug that takes no prisoners when you abuse it! As for J taking the cowards way out, who is to say, J himself had to face his maker after making this decision. I will say that it is a selfish act that hurts many of the people that love you dearly. When somebody get's to that point they think that know one cares if they are there or not since they have caused so much pain and heartache. I have a friend at work that had his son take his life in his bedroom right before he got home from a 12 hr night shift, no reason that makes any sense for this act, he was 18 years old, a good student with a nice girlfriend, and everything to live for just a waste of his precious life As for what can be done for the repeat DUI offenders, that is a tough call, if we had the answers we wouldn't have all the problems that come from alcohol and drug abuse. As for intervention, that can work, but the addict has to want to make a change, no one can do it for you, I know from my own experience. When I lost my job due to drug abuse and went to treatment the last thing I was going to do was get clean and sober, but sometimes GOD put's you where you need to be when you need to be there. Thanks to many people in AA and my higher power this June I will be clean and sober for 9 years, none of this by my doing. Just for once in my life I listened to someone when I was whinning about my problems and feeling sorry for myself. That person told me when it came to all my problems that I needed to put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror and you will see your biggest problem. Not what I wanted to hear but the truth is the truth, probably saved my bacon. I have no answer for question being put out there, just my experience. I hope that you know Krue that I am always here for you, as you have been for me all my life.

Take care Bro

[Kruechief]

Thanks Cb,

You are a good man and have worked hard to make a place in life.

When I was 17... 18-years old I was on a fast track to being another statistic. If you hadn't of been my friend I would have never of done the fishing and hunting I do now and love.

Thanks for all the time and patience but mostly for shaming me into growing up. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

God knows I could have easily been on "the other side" of the bars. :smile:

Well, I guess I'll finish uo J's .06. Should be pretty sweet with the Redfield. Maybe we'll go get us one of them thar boars someday buddy. :smile:

Krue

One of these days I am going to tell the story about the trout derby at Foster and the "unexpected" catch. Can I still get in trouble for a game violation committed 27-years ago? Was it a violation then? Hmmmm? Man, that was the biggest “dam” fish I ever caught!

I guess that is one day out of numerous others that you got paddled!

[sinker]

I should have continued typing I guess.

As far as what to do to help these guys I have kind of a cold outlook on it. I look at guys like the one I worked with. He repeatedly drove drunk, got arrested 5 times and I know of at least 2 other times he totalled a car near his home and was never caught.
He didn't want to get better and yet he continued to drive and endanger everyone that shared the road with him.
I didn't use to look so badly at drunk drivers until I got a family of my own. If something ever happened to my wife or daughter I pity the judge and prosecutor that turned that driver lose.
What I'm getting at is my view at guys such as this is lock them up and throw away the key. Our prison's aren't made for punishment they're made for protecting the rest of society and turning guys like this lose isn't protecting anyone.

[montster303]

Krue-

I'm sorry to hear about the bro-in-law. I know it's hard to think of something possitive in a situation like that, but at least he didn't destroy another family by killing them in an "accident" and then do it to himself.


sinker-

I'm in the same boat as you (but with a name like "Sinker", i'm not sure that's such a good idea!! :grin: ) I personally feel that if you take a life when you are drunk, you should be charged with agravated murder. With all the knowledge of what alcohol does to people, you know the chances you are taking when you get behind the wheel. Just playing russian roulet.

as far as locking them up...hey, i'm all for it...job security for me! But...we have to pay for them (no intention of turning this to a political discussion...)

As i was typing this, i was thinking...hmmm...i don't have a clue what to do with them...then i had a thought...kinda along the lines of the prison time...maybe a Bootcamp?

You can arrest them all you want...but they'll find a way to continue drinking and probably driving drunk. I guess bottom line is that they have to want the help.