Ever give to panhandlers?

[RvW]

Ive just finished watching KATU's pathetic piece on panhandling in Portland.

The first episode focused on exactly how much panhandlers make, and introduced an idea that its easy money vs working for a living.

They put a "decoy" on the street who claims to have made $11 in an hour. ( a rip off from a 60 minutes I watched a while back) And then went on to make statements about taxes (the rich have shelters! so should the poor!), and what the so called pan handlers spend the money on.

The first problem I have is that though I fear a donation to a homeless person on the street, braving the eliments, and humiliating themselves in the face of society might buy with the money I give them, how on earth can I assume that the dollar or two I hand out will be spent on drugs or alcohol rather than food for a child, or even themselves?
Secondly, why would I care!? If a person is so reduced to begging for money to pay for an addiction, and I am unable to help the helpless in any other way than to give them some sort of relief(a 40 oz beer to be able to sleep, or a bag of dope to keep from suffering withdrawal) why would I have any guilt at all enabling a person to relieve thier ills?

It is heartbreaking to see people who, by way of a disease, have reduced themselves to begging, but I feel like if this is the case, the very least (unarguably the very least) I can do is offer them a comfort to supliment thier physical need for drugs or alcohol with a donation, and just pray they decide to buy a cheeseburger instead.

KATU news irritated me with thier plea to the givers to stop giving cash, I mean theres no chance that your going to drive up to a red light and get a resume stuffed down your throat from any of these people, but while we all might assume its because these people dont want to work, ask yourself if you would be able to get to a job, have a little money for lunch during your first two weeks while waiting for your first check, take a shower and change into clean (unoffensive)clothing each day while your living in the steets or under a bridge and have to focus on an addiction or alcohol dependancy?

Ive never had to consider panhandling, other than a hoax while on spring break in '88 to pay for a hotel and beer and a rental car (which a friend and I manged to accomplish in 5 days of displaying "stranded with a family" signs) but I have often considered it an option over facing some of the struggles of paying for my share of the "american dream" (160k house 25k truck, $100 CONSERVATIVE dollars a month for electricity etc) if things got so tough, or so frustrating, or so very COMPETITIVE, that I gave in to shame.

I think if tonights KATU broadcast was taken to heart by anyone, and that "anyone" decides to keep thier window up while faced with a person who may be in genuine need, thier motive for the story may have something to do with the producers guilt when he/she has done it so many times and for so long!

Alcoholism and drug addiction is still refered to as a social disease in our country, dispite the wound licker beurocrats who alocate pennies to treat and combat these diseases. And though a small percentage of people do not use either substance while panhandling your spare change, Ive yet to see a person get a second opinion or conduct an interview when they decide they are going to pretend to be looking at something far more important than the person in need on the street corner standing in the rain.

I'm very greatful to have what little I have, its not a "little" at all!..hell I've got toys that would pay a years rent, and rehab for three people who need it. I hope I am never one to need it, and that the good kharma that comes from my help to those in need only leads me to helping more.

[ 02-04-2003, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]

[speyfly]

Every chance i get. You never know when you will meet an angel .

[TheRogue]

If you normally hand out $50 per year to panhandlers, give it to your local food kitchen or battered wives shelter (to name a few). instead. It will do a lot more good there.

My .02

TR

[Trick]

I also donate to non-profit organization that amongst other things, aid the homeless.

I will not donate money on the street. I'm not into helping people, that in alot of cases, will spend my cash on alcohol and drugs.

If you must, hand them food, cloths, etc....not money.

[RvW]

Trick, soup kitchens dont allow drunks...
if you happen to be subject to alcoholism (please argue that its a choice!) where else are you going to go if not the streetcorner?

[ 02-03-2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]

[The Fishing Geek]

Part I of story
Part II of story

[The Fishing Geek]

I don't give. Portland has a reputation of being a giving city to panhandlers. I'd like to see that end.

[happybrew]

There are some people in my town who rotate corners, and have been doing it for years. there are enough social services that if they wanted to get off the street, they could have done so by now. That being said, I will give to somebody who I haven't seen panhandling for years on end, on the assumption that they want to get out of that situation.

When I was going to the U of O, 13th street was filled with panhandlers, many who were young, late teens, early 20's. At the same time, we had a sign up on our road sign, a sign inside our restaurant, and an ad in the paper for help wanted, without a single application. These people simply did not want to work. I would not give to them. We had a homeless person come in and ask for a job. We gave him one. Two weeks later, he was no longer homeless.

At the same time, however, we just don't know. I've had people come into my restaurant out of the rain, obviously in need of a meal, and I'd buy them one. They'd say thank you, eat, and go. We had one guy who would come into the restaurant and expect to be able to occupy a table for hours and hours when we were busy, with no purchase, when we needed the table. I told him he could have an hour, and he agreed to it. More than an hour later, I reminded him that we needed the table for paying customers, and he let loose with a stream of obscenities at me. I had to 86 him.

I think we have a duty to help our fellow human beings in need. On the other hand, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be taken advantage of by those who simply want to mooch off of society and make no contribution, when they are completely capable of doing so. Both of those have a biblical basis. Every person has to draw their own line.

happybrew

[thankful]

The majority of the panhandlers out there I believe are not there by design. The way our economy is going I won't be surprise if some of you in this board might resort to begging in some street corner but I sure hope not. If you are going to think of a million reasons not to part with some of your spare change, most likely you won't part with it even though the one begging is truthfully down and out. When I give, I give joyfully and without reservation and if I give otherwise, it won't be giving at all.

[garyk]

Once in a while...but not if they're in my face - I won't be intimidated.

Related story....

We were having a party downtown, winter evening. Going there, I pass this forlorn, young, hungry looking, street kid.

Hours later, I'm leaving the party, feeling good with a box of leftover pizza. The poor kid is still there. We make eye contact. Then I say - 'Would you like some pizza?'

Kid replies, "What's the flavor?'

I decided things weren't as bad as they looked.

[Fishical Therapy]

We always try to support charitable organizations (Scouts, local family shelters, etc.) and our church and to raise our young boys (2 and 4) properly we will donate to Salvation Army buckets etc. and occasionally to a panhandler.

However, this Christmas we are downtown by Meier(sp?) and Frank showing the boys the Christmas windows. We look down and there are coins all over the sidewalk and a guy is sitting up against one of the windows dumping change out of his bucket. The boys see this falling down and start picking it up and bring a handful over to the guy. He dumps it back on the sidewalk and says "It ain't money unless it's paper."

I make some comment that it isn't very friendly and tell the boys to leave him alone. And he starts telling the boys that he's just making up for all of the years of oppression due to their grandfathers (he's African-American and we are a white family).

I herd the boys, my wife and mother-in-law away from the scene and then he goes off like he wants a piece of me.

A little farther down another guy hands my kids a candycane. I give the guy a handful of change, but don't let the kids have the candy.

There seem to be all types. Some folks that are truly down on their luck and don't have the skillset to get out, some that are just bums and some that have some mental conditions and/or substance abuse problems.

I have pretty much decided that I am going to give to organizations and stop giving to the individuals where I can't sort out where it is doing good and welcomed and where it is not constructive.

I will try to keep them in my prayers so that the other organizations help gets to them.

[The Fishing Geek]

Related to garyk's story:

My wife worked at a food donation group (I forget which one) where they made food boxes for the needy. They had to resort to putting stickers on the food boxes so that when it came back unused they would know how many times it had went out. They eventually learned that if it wasn't national-brand food that it just wouldn't get used.

Admittedly, this is not how all needy folks are. There are many who are very grateful for whatever help that they get, and generally I think that it's safe to say that those folks end up in need only temporarily. At one time I was in that place, and thankfully I am no longer there. Unfortunately, there are many others who make it their "lifestyle" who do end up ruining it for those who truly do "need".

I wish we could somehow weed out the abusers from the real needy.

[Firedog]

I used to give them money once in awhile but not anymore. I was on my way home from work about 7 or 8 years ago and had some fruit and other food left from my lunch and they guy at the top of the northbound glisan ramp with his will work for food sign, told me he didn't want any food just money. After that I stopped because I knew all they were after was money, if they were so hard up they would take what was offered. Then I watched the same guy work the off ramp for a couple years, was starting to wonder if there is a panhandlers union and they each get their own corners.

I do wish there was a way to tell the bad ones from the good ones but there isn't and I believe that the majority of the ones on the off ramps and street corners are just looking for drug money. Just my experience and I see a fair amount while working.

I give my money to a couple diferent charities and hoep they can do good with it.

[Silver Hilton]

I've seen fistfights happen over who gets the corner. I've also seen a guy drop a woman off and then retreat to a distance where he watches over her working the corner, I'm guessing to keep anyone else from running her off.

[lost_sailor]

Rarely.

I gave a Blazers hat to a poet in New York City.

I gave $5 to a junkie who convinced me that her car with her kids in it had run out of gas ... dang she was good, lots of practice I guess -- I headed up the ramp where the car was supposed to be. No car. I kicked myself repeatedly after that one.

I really don't get panhandled much.

[will_e_fish]

A young woman came into a barber shop and was asking to sweep the floor for bus money to get home. The barber could not hear her she repeated it several times and I gave in for $.

I have been downtown several times when panhandlers have asked for money and it was a coincidence that I was carrying some food that when I offered it they turned it down. Since then I still offer food not money.

I am sure the panhandlers talk about which spots are the best some are always occupied.
I see guys and women at various freeway exits and on ramps. I can understand why the concern as most them rotate spots daily. Seeing them with the will work for food or homeless wanting a job carboard sign then seeing at a different ramp the next day is interesting.

We give to womens shelters and other charible organiztions. Help the food drives,bake pies for food kitchen and deliver meals on wheels once a week.
The womens shelter were so happy to get the clothes bedding and household items we dropped off at XMas. I have to see if the Father's Center has a single dad that is need.

[ 02-04-2003, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: will_e_fish ]

[Boedy]

One time during the holidays there was a man and a woman standing out side with 3 or 4 kids. It was really cold and windy that day and I just wanted them to get those kids off the street so I gave them some cash and they did leave right after that. I have always hoped they where truly in need and not just scamming people.

[happybrew]

Originally posted by thankful:
The majority of the panhandlers out there I believe are not there by design. The way our economy is going I won't be surprise if some of you in this board might resort to begging in some street corner but I sure hope not. If you are going to think of a million reasons not to part with some of your spare change, most likely you won't part with it even though the one begging is truthfully down and out. When I give, I give joyfully and without reservation and if I give otherwise, it won't be giving at all.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I agree that most of the people are not there by design, but we will notice the ones we see there every day for five years, and those people I think ARE there by design. I think that at a time when local charities are hurting for contributions, money is better spent at one of those charities, rather than at the liquor store via the panhandler. I think it's a personal decision, and each person must decide when and to whom they want to give. You are right that if we don't give joyfully, it is like we aren't giving at all, but I think it is a bit naive to think that some of our charity won't get misused. How many times have you seen people use their Oregon Trail card to buy chips and soda pop? Remember the old paper food vouchers? I can't count the number of times saw people buy soda and a candy bar, then take the change and buy cigarrettes. Are they representative of people on food stamps? I have no idea, but I do know that they are the ones who stick out in your mind. Do we really make it a point to remember when somebody buys milk, veggies, pasta, cheese, etc. with their food stamps? Probably not. They just don't stick out in your mind like those who abuse the system do. With those who buy junk, it's my hope that at least some of that money trickles down into healthy food for the kids.
I think that these sorts of things shouldn't stop us from giving, and when we give we should do so with the realization that it might be misused. I don't think that we should have a paternalistic attitude toward the poor. They have free choice just as we do, and just because we see a few making a poor choice, that doesn't mean all of them do. Maybe some of them still need to learn how to make good choices, and they're going to get there with a little time. I've certainly not always made the best choices in my life, so why would I expect everybody else to make the best choice's in theirs?

happybrew

[ 02-04-2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

Sorry, I don't give to panhandlers period. If they are an Angel they better have a darn good story and maybe some wing sprouts to boot.

I donate to my church which offers many assistence programs for the needy in the church as well as missions programs that help people in the area and throughout the world. That way at least I know where and what my money that I have been blessed with goes for.

Many times I have panhandlers come in the shop looking for pop cans and spare change. I hand them a phone number or offer to make a phone call to a relative or help organization of their choice. I know their routine and it is to go accross the street and buy a paper bag that happens to contain a bottle of booze. 'Sorry, just can't support that kind of crap. That does'nt mean I don't feel for them. Just won't condone their lifestyle or actions.

[CATCH AND EAT]

real funny there Geek. :grin:

[Empire]

I do not give to beggars or panhandlers. The way I see it, if nobody gave them money they would find the resources they need. The Salvation Army, countless churches, county (or city),State welfare, federal grants for everything from food to clothing to housing. (I would even argue the long term benefits or plague of welfare).

A dollar given is a dollar that someone does not have to earn. To get ahead, you have to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. If someone is so far down on his luck, he or she can get help, and hopefully keep it temporary so the next sole can get the free meals and beds.

[The Fishing Geek]

Funny, I've never had any "spare" change. I've always been good at being able to find a use for it.

Oh, and a few words from the wise: calling your wife (even jokingly) a pan-handler after she makes a nice dinner for you is not a good way to stay on her good side, or even get there if you've not seen that good side in awhile.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Geek you're not speaking from experience are ya? [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] :shocked: [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
Geek you're not speaking from experience are ya? [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] :shocked: [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Possible. There's a period of time between her favorite cast iron skillet not having a dent and having a dent that I don't seem to remember.

[Grantspastor]

Interesting question! As a general rule I don't...for all the reasons listed. There are times however when I have felt moved on in my heart (I believe by the Lord) to give in certain instances. I'll never forget one time I was in the McDonald's drive-thru watching some really tough looking kids approach a panhandler. I thought to myself "this guy is in trouble now...looks like they're all set to give him a hard time" Instead, one of the kids reached in his pocket and gave the guy some $. I did too after seeing that...and felt a little ashamed of myself.

[The Fishing Geek]

There are paper bags you can buy that come with a free bottle of booze? That's gonna sell some serious bags!

[steelhooked]

there are so many elements that play into being homeless and reasons for being homeless that i wouldn't know where to begin. as to who i personally would give to, the person that chooses to live this way meaning not doing drugs but just living and wondering, i guess you could say a hobo. i would be more than happy to people that honestly need it to get on there feet the catch is you don't know therefore i don't give to these people. the thought of someone using the couple of dollars i gave them for drugs or alcohol then committing a crime such as murder, **** , robbery,etc due to the fixation they got from my two dollars would make me sick. just something to think about.

[RvW]

AT THE WELFARE OFFICE

A young man, a current welfare recipient, walked into the local welfare
office, marched straight up to the counter and said, "Hi, I hate
drawing welfare. I would really rather find a job."

The man behind the counter replied, "Your timing is amazing. We just got
a listing from a very wealthy man who wants a chauffeur/bodyguard for
his ******maniac daughter. You'll have to drive around a big black
Mercedes, and the suits, shirts, and ties are provided.

Because of the long hours of this job, meals will also be provided and
you will also be required to escort the young lady on her overseas
holiday's trips. The salary package is $200,000 a year."

The guy said, "You're bull...uh, kidding me man!"

The man behind the counter said, "Well, you started it"

Not for years, some of them make more money than I do. I gave $5.00 to one that had a sign that said "Why lie, need beer" a while back but that was the only time in years.

[RogueFishr]

Not in a long time. I was leaving the video store one night a few years back and was confronted by a guy and his kid (about 5-6) with a gas can. he said he was out of gas and just needed a few bucks to get home. He said he was out of work and just down on his luck. I asked him where his car was and I would fill the tank up for him (we were across the street from a gas station). He said, no, that was too much trouble, if I could just spare a few bucks he would get the gas himself and be on his way. I said again that I would FILL his gas tank for him instead of just giving him a couple dollars. He just turned and walked away. What a great example he was setting for his son....

RF

[Cool Texan]

I gave a blanket to a guy sleeping in a doorway last winter. We saw him, this old blanket was in the back of my truck, and we gave it to him.

Other than that, it is a rare moment in life that I will give these folks money. If the guy is really old and asking, I'd probably give him a buck or two (if he buys beer with it, so what). If some young punk is asking, no way...get a job.

Guess I dont really believe in the undeserved handouts. If you're not trying to help yourself, then why should I help you? (pretty much the same logic I used on 28).

[True]

When I was just a little spud we used to live in L.A. My father caught me one time sprinkling bread crumbs on the floor and he asked me, "Boy, what are you doing."

"Feeding the cockroaches, dad."

"Son, don't feed the cucarachas or they'll just keep multiplying."

I guess the same could be said with the homeless and the panhandlers. When I give I give to animal shelters and abused women's programs.

If too many panhandlers hear that Oregon is a generous state they all end up moving here. Then, if they learn how to fish?... well, you see where this is headed!


True

[HeavyMetal BankFisherman]

Years past I occasionally gave to panhandlers but only selectively. I had the misguided idea that if they were honest with me and at least said "Hey, can you help me out? I need to get a drink" knowing that ninety percent of panhandlers spend thier money on booze, I was doing the right thing.

My way of thinking has changed. I don't give much but I do give to the Oregon Food Bank. I will never give to a panhandler again. Especially when most of the panhandlers in downtown Portland are in thier twenties, sitting on thier butts, wearing gothic clothing, with more metal in thier faces than all the tackle in my taclke box.

Most have money and if they are broke it is because they choose not to work. I saw a girl in her twenties last summer sitting on her butt on Broadway reading a book while asking people walking by for spare change. I'm thinking, hey i'm out working to make a living and your reading a book.

I thought there was a law against loitering. Oh well. It's easy to ignore them. Don't say no. Just walk by without acknowledging them.

[RvW]

True, I hope (sincerely) that your never reduced to cockroach status. And if so, someone like your younger self comes along and offers crumbs.

Originally posted by Keta:
Not for years, some of them make more money than I do. I gave $5.00 to one that had a sign that said "Why lie, need beer" a while back but that was the only time in years.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Saw a guy outside of Safeco field panhandling and his sign read "Spare Change for Weed"
I didn't contribute but thought it was kind of funny,

[Beer Waggin]

I only give to my favorite charity........ ME!

Shane,
At least their honest. I don't think I would have contributed for the pot.

[Cool Texan]

Originally posted by cirrhosis-of-the-river:
True, I hope (sincerely) that your never reduced to cockroach status. And if so, someone like your younger self comes along and offers crumbs.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">If I am ever reduced to that status, I'll spend my time looking for work, not begging on corners. There are jobs out there if you want to work bad enough.

[True]

Cool Texan,

True!

COTR,

I'm hoping that if I am reduced to this status that someone will come along and show me how to earn my own bread.

True

[Hogmaster]

I had witheld comment on this thread but since no one else has cited my philosphy, I thought it might provide some discussion.

My mother-in-law (Yikes!) taught my wife this, and it has become my position on pan handlers.

I NEVER give money to those that appear able bodied, UNLESS they display a talent. Then it isn't a handout, it is recognition of the person trying. It really doesn't matter if they are particularly good or bad at what it is they are trying to do, the issue is whether it is being done with grace and not being disruptive. A flute player? Sure. A person who wipes the windshield on the car and gives an expectant look? No way. A personal service needs to be asked to be performed, but an "act" is worth recognition .

Now, if someone with no limbs and eyes is genuinely looking in need, that is one thing, but someone just hitting others up with stories, obvious lies or threats is another.

Even the "Why lie" guy got a response from me the first time I saw it (several years ago now in the bay area) for orginality. Now it doesn't rate...

[RvW]

True...your more likely to get a handout than anyone coming along and wasting thier time trying to teach you anything, pipedreams never come true.

Tex, Its one thing to lie in an effort to get a handout, but I think trues motive in dumping crumbs on the floor was to ease his own mind.

Its funny how our minds are so corrupted by age. True didnt have to think about the fact that though the cockroaches will steal the crumbs when your not looking, maybe, just maybe one of those cockroaches will find its way out of the house and into societies dumpster if it has enough nourishment to make it.


Ive seen the same guy on the same corner on Vancouver in Portland just before the I5 south turnoff. His sign said something like "homeless with family, but working, need help yadda yadda. But I recognized this guy was smoking cigarettes and said to myself I wouldnt buy someone I dont know a pack of smokes, so I wont give him any money.
On the other hand, a few streets back, theres a guy with two different kinds of shoes on, and a sign with a W2 on it that said :" 12 years and all I got was a weeks pay with my last check" I gave him $2 and asked that he find a way to give it back to someone who needs it someday.

I have no need to be cold to, or critical of these people. the point of my initial post was to say that KATU did find that the system of panhandling corrupt, but if people stop giving, they stop giving to those who are in legitimate need. I dont have time to conduct an interview with each one of them. But if I sense that one is in need, and may have the mental capacity to use the money wisely, what the heck, Ill just wash my truck at home this week instead of using the $10 car wash on Multnoma Blvd.

Hog,
It was a one time deal with me too.

[GutshotApe]

I give to panhandlers generously, and annually. Every April 15 Uncle Sam and Uncle Ted have their hands out and I can't resist giving them thousands of dollars. It makes me feel good inside (knowing that the govt. won't send me to prison if I pay ) even though much of the money I "donate" is in turn given to able-bodied people who spend it on cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and riotous living :shocked: .

Its the American way!

[RvW]

GSA, how could you give to a man with such a huge martini-nose?

GSA,
We are the ones that end up with the spare change. I worked 6 months last year and still had to pay extra state and federal tax. I had to borow the money to pay them

[Cool Texan]

A quick search in the Oregonian gave me 1500 jobs listed.

Speaking of...was I the only one that noticed the typo on the front page of the Oregonian the day after the shuttle accident?

[True]

My advice to you is that you claim less exemptions when you fill out your initial tax form for your job.

I also suggest you learn to itemize, gentlemen! Learn your Schedule As, Schedule Bs, Cs and Ds. I love the 15th of April! Mortgages, children, job and educational expenses, they all add up!

CoTR, there are programs out there that will give the homeless an education or teach them a trade. Personally, if I were to be one it would have happened a long time ago.

As a general question I'm wondering what the average education is for people that are caught in this position? Does this make a stronger case for finishing high school and maybe going on to college?


True

[ 02-07-2003, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: True ]

[Cool Texan]

My mind is corrupted with age? So, if its corrupt now, when I am 32, then dang...I am going to be one evil S.O.B. in another 20 years!! :shocked: I feel like kicking a kitten just talking about it!!

But really...its a personal preference. I typically dont give money to those folks because there are jobs available in the world, there are places for them to go get a hot meal and a place to sleep at night (I assume its based on them not drinking, not doing drugs, etc). So why do they need my money??

If they want to work for food or money...come to my house. I'll be spending part of my weekend digging up the dirt and grass between my sidewalk and the street. They want to come do it for me? I will gladly pay them for their work.

[GutshotApe]

A few years ago I did some logging on my place and tried to find someone to pile the slash for burning. I was paying $10/hour, cash, would provide transportation to & from town, and would pay for one meal/day. About 3 days worth of work for 2 guys. No power tool use involved - just pick up sticks and pile 'em.

Was turned down by three "Will work for food" types standing on corners in W.Eugene. Went down to the Mission and was turned down by several young, able-bodied transients. Finally ran across an old hippie tree planter I knew from years gone by and he and another aging hipster got the work done and were happy for theopportunity to earn the money. And I was happy to pay them because they did a good job, didn't stand around loafing when I wasn't there, and didn't get "hurt on the job" or otherwise try to sue me .

What I learned: many "homeless" people are glad to take free money but don't want to get their hands dirty or break a sweat. There are still people who will work for their money but they are becoming scarcer all the time :depressed: .

[outfishem]

NO because they probably make more in one hour than alot of people do. They are just like the scam artists that go door to door picking on the elderly trying to get all their money.

True,
How can I do more than 0? I own my house so that isn't a deduction. I just made too much the first half of last year.

GSA,
Go down to the Employment Dept. and hire some Mexicians. You'll get more than your moneys worth.

[ 02-07-2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[bigfishon]

Myself and some friends when living in Portland (FYI it cost 4 of us $700.00 a month for a studio apartment that was a dump and you shared the bathroom with the studio next door) used to make up tunafish and peanut butter sandwiches and go down under the bridges in the evening and hand them out to people who were living in cardboard boxes, there was a girl about 19 I figure with a baby maybe 6 months old living down there also, allot of the homeless people looked after her while she was there. Thing with her was she was not mentaly capable of taking care of herself and the child, we talked her into letting a couple of the girls we knew take her to a womens shelter that got her a job and counsling to help her with the job and and dealing with daily life. Not eveyone has the mental capacity to live a normal life on their own some of those people really do have serious problems. I never have been one to give money but I will buy a sandwich and a milk or coffee or some hot soup for someone, or for $2.00 you can get a coat or a blanket at goodwill, this time of year allot of homeless people do not wake up in the morning due to exposure to the elements. So what is $2 or even $10 if you can make it possible for someone who is out in the cold to wake up in the morning alive and breathing. You can tell who is out there scamming if you want to, it is very easy really, just go down town or maybe under the bridge bettween 1am to 4am durring those hours when the temps are well below freezing you will find people in need, the scammers will be at home in a warm bed thinking of how spend their easy money. It is not so hard to find people in need, just be aware, pay attention to them, watch where they go and what they do, you will learn to pick them out if you want to. Some won't ask but will accept if offered, they are the ones who have not yet lost all their self respect. Others become so depresed and feel there is no hope that they no longer have any self respect left. Don't think it can not happen to you, I would be willing to bet they never thought they would where the are tonight.

[RvW]

good points bigfish.

Keta, Yor last post reminds me.
I called the employment department and offered day labor for a day to get a roof and sidewalls dried in for shakes and siding back in 94 when I was a framing, siding and roofing.
I was sent 3 people who were aparently from Mexico, who I had a rough time with. They didnt understand too much english. I tried and tried to communicate with them and even felt like I was getting nowhere trying to explain how to staple and cap nail the felt for wind, and how to keep the tyvek straight, tape every seam, etc etc.
I was surprised that roof jacks, ladder jacks, ladder brackets, hammertackers etc were all things these guys had never seen before, and being that I needed to get this done before the rain came, I dealt with the obsticles and finished what should have taken a mere 4 hours for 2 monkeys to complete.
9 hours later, I walk into a bar in Oregon City, and theres the three guys yuckin it up with the bartender, in PERFECT english!

I went to my truck and got three I-9 forms. Uh oh, aparently they had never seen one of those either.
Only after having my beers and dinner paid for, did get I my moneys worth.

Dont get me wrong, I too think its a fair bet that you'll get your moneys worth hiring folks from south of the border, but in some cases, you have to work at it. :grin:

[ 02-09-2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]

CotR,
It helps sometimes if you can cuss them out in Spanish. I don't get fooled much with "No habla Englase". Most are hard workers and appriciate a lunch and a few extra $ at the end of the day. The word gets out and you'll find they work harder for you.

[onebuck]

I used to give "spare" change when I had it and often times I knew the money was inevitably going to end up paying for somebody's booze or drugs. Then one day I had an interesting thing happen. I was at an intersection waiting for the light to change and I see this young guy with a sign. He looks dirty and poor and maybe a few years younger than I...22 or 23. As I get closer I recognize the guy!
A few days earlier I had visited a friend of mine who had just moved into a very nice apartment complex in the "upscale" NW district about one block off of the ritzy 23rd Avenue. As we were leaving his apartment I see one of his neighbors leaving his apartment and recognize the guy as somebody who had worked with an old girlfriend of mine as a waiter at Spagetti Factory. I say hi, good to see you, and see you around....well I didn't think "see you around" would mean panhandling the corner of NW 14th and Everett! It absolutely floored me that this guy was out there panhandling when he lived in an apartment that was close to $900.00 a month in rent. Since then I don't give my money away to panhandlers...I now believe that rarely is the appearance the reality for these individuals...be it they need money for there family, or a bus ticket, or gas, or work, or food....all they really want is a handout and a quick buck.