as you are dancing on my grave....

[HOGTIDE]

For the record, I am both a fiscal/political and a philisophical 'conservative'. Because of this, within the realm of education, I am a bit of an oddity. Under the discipline of The Social Studies, I am more than a bit of an irritation to my fellow pedagogs.

I hate pork-belly government. I am appauled by lavish expenditures by government agencies. I believe in an efficient, effective critical education system.

But this one really hurt. I know all of you celebrants are proud that you "stayed the course"; "sent some strong medicine to the State of Oregon". Heck, I probably would have voted NO, also. I know everyones pocketbook has shrunk. But, knowing the reality of the situation, the consequences of lasts nights vote becomes a very personal issue.

Our School Board is currently meeting to select which days on the calender will be eliminated from my contract. That will result in a minimum of$3,000 in lost takehome pay between now and June. My wifes job is potentially in jeopardy and over one dozen of my friends and co-teachers jobs are guaranteed 'gone' within the next couple of weeks. Yes, I know, us fat n' sassy teachers are already paid way too much. And of course, we spend it on lots of lavish items...like buying groceries, paying for a home and trying to scrape enough together to send children to college.

Real people have lost their jobs...people I know. Real people will lose their homes(maybe me), healthcare and security.

So dance and celebrate and strut. Enjoy the $112 dollars you saved. Go out and buy yourself a few good micro-brews and a basket of greasy fries...the 112 will just about cover it.

[Salmonator]

Sorry about your $3000 a year you lost. I have several friends/ex-coworkers that have lost their jobs completely that do not work for the state.

Sorry, didn't read the "other" thread before I read this one. Just so you know, I voted no but am not dancing on anyones grave about it.

[ 01-29-2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

[OneLastCast]

Hogtide:

I did vote no. My business partner is the head of the school board and we had many discussions about this. I have always had the utmost respect for you but although Nehalem can supply the greasy fries we are a little short of the microbrews. Let us wait a month and see what shakes out. If you are in a pickle let me know.
That is a serious offer.

OneLastCast

[DF]

Government scare tactic..No
Real deal..yes
Trust me I know, there has been talk of graduation also being in trouble.
We have a certian ammount of hours we must attend school to graduate... if those hours are not completed, I can't graduate.
He's not being rude. He's doing the same thing the rest of you did with your VOTE NO posts
Hogtide, you KNOW you have a seat on our boat ANYTIME.
Even though people think that students don't care for teachers, they do, it hurts us as students to see teachers taken away from us...especially the good ones. :depressed:

[TheRogue]

But many people feel much better that they've voted NO.....

As always, I support you and all Oregon teachers, regardless of the cost!! Good luck.

TR

[The Fishing Geek]

Less money for schools means fewer teachers and fewer school days, and that means students like Drummer/Fisherman who can't spell mermaids.

It's hurting us already... :grin:

[happybrew]

Hogtide, I certainly feel a lot of sympathy for your situation, but I think I should remind you that you now merely find yourself in the same boat as the rest of us. I manage a restaurant. After September 11th, our sales declined 25%. We were fortunate. Others in our areas declined 50%. Four other restaurants near us went out of business. In the town where I work, unemployment was 25% last year. I had hundreds of applications for anything available, but no jobs to offer. Over 2002, our sales continued to decline somewhat. This month, we have finally stopped the decline in sales. My employees have seen a significant decline in their hours, and thus their incomes because the money and the work are just not there. I haven't seen any bonuses. Furthermore, our energy costs have gone up 50%. Insurance has increased considerably all across the country. Our insurance costs are up 30%, and again we are fortunate because other businesses have seen larger increases. They will probably go up again. Our labor cost as a percentage of our sales has gone up, as the voters approved a minimum wage increase. I voted for the last one, but not this one given the current economic climate. Restaurants operate on a 3 to 5% profit margin. Labor costs usually run 25% of sales. With our energy prices going up, the economy going bad and impacting our sales, insurance costs going up, and other factors, our profit margin had dipped to 1%. Our staffing is already at minimal levels. Managers are working hourly positions and getting the manager work done when there is time. And again, we are fortunate, because we are the busiest restaurant in the town I work in. With the increase in the minimum wage on a profit margin of !%, that wipes out our profit this month and puts us at a loss. All of these factors are outside of our control. When the economy gets better, we won't have these problems, but until it does, my employees suffer, my owner worries about his investment, I worry about the future of my job, and how I am going to keep all of these people working enough to live. And it took a vote of the people to push us over the edge into the land of uncertainty.

I am not in any way trying to minimize what you have experienced and what you are feeling. I'm just trying to tell you that we're in the same situation, and have been there for some time. I saw the writing on the wall on these things a long time ago, and there was nothing I could do about it. All we can do is keep working as hard and as smart as we can, look out for each other, and pray that this ends quickly.

happybrew
:depressed:

[Straydog]

My wife took my daughter and signed her up for soccer tonight. (8 yrs. old)

It costs $45.00. There was a box to check if you could give more for needy kids that may not be able to play otherwise. My wife did and when she turned the money and form in the gal taking it thanked her and said it was needed more this year than most.

As the lady put it, those that checked the "hardship" box and could not pay the full amount, simply put "measure 28, losing my job" in the explanation area.

I feel there are going to be many, many, many obscure situations such as these that most people don't think about and some don't care about............. :depressed:

HOGTIDE.
I am sorry for your loss but your in a large and full boat. This year I made $35,000 before July and $9,000 after. I only have 3 more months of unemployment left and no job. And I'm not alone here, Oregon has either the highest or the second highest unemployment in the country.
At least you're working.

[The Fishing Geek]

Not to minimize the importance of the restaurant industry, but there is a much greater impact when basic programs such as education, safety, and other social programs go underfunded than when a restaurant goes out of business. If the restaurant goes out of business we can go elsewhere, or just eat at home. If the police aren't funded enough to protect and serve, if the schools cannot educate our students the way they deserve to be educated, if we cannot make sure that destitute children get what they need for basic life, what then? Where do we turn then?

It's a sad day when we have to cut over a month from the school year because they cannot afford to keep them open. It only adds to the overall decline of our society.

Geek,
The cuts should start at the top.
Dog,
Willy had to clean the cafeteria so he could be in basketball.

[happybrew]

Geek: tell that to my employees. How is that waitress going to support her kids? How is that dishwasher going to eat? And it is tied to the programs you mention. My employees often are those who got left behind by the educational system, and who would end up in need of those social services without the job, and a few would probably end up in jail. I don't minimize the importance of those programs that may get cut, and the importance of the jobs to those employees. I'm just trying to point out that they are not alone. I wish none of us was in this situation.

happybrew

[Cool Texan]

Despite all my other posts regarding 28, I sincerely feel for those who are being impacted by its defeat.

True, I voted no on 28. I voted this way for two primary reasons.

1) It did nothing to fix the underlying long term problems that are causing this situation.

2) 28 did not put in writing where the money would go...merely that it would increase taxes. That means that things like Medicaid could (and will from what my wife is hearing) be cut regardless of 28 (yes, Medicaid was doomed even if 28 passed). I cant justify giving state government a blank check like that.

I hope you and everyone impacted are able to pull though this difficult time. Oregon has to change the way it works...because clearly, it doesnt.

[skein]

The deal is I can pony up the $112 that 28 would have cost me, but I can't make up for the 100's of workers that Weyerhauser laid off or the 1500 or so that HP laid off or the folks that got laid off because those people got laid off. We're ultimately in this together.

I would LEAP to vote for a person who will steadfastly REFUSE to send our jobs over seas. We aren't gonna get better 'til we get back to work!

I voted yes, by the way.

Skein

[1pump]

Something that's baffled me for years.....with the population of Oregon growing steadily, wouldn't that mean a bigger tax base? Or just more strain on education and social services? Or has the government's mismanagement gotten that much worse? There's gotta be a balance there somewhere..........

I voted yes, BTW.

[ 01-30-2003, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: 1pump ]

[Reel Crazy]

Until the government figures out that it needs to be run like you and I would run a business, [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] no increase in taxes will help. They should should reward a service for coming in under budget instead of taking it away next year. This is what causes a lot the overspending.

[The Fishing Geek]

I just found out last night that the region Autism/Asperger specialist for Portland Public and North Clackamas schools (one person covered both districts) was possibly laid off yesterday. This woman worked tirelessly to make sure that students like my son had programs available to him to help him learn in the unique ways that he (and the others) can.

Folks who know me know that I'm looking at moving to Sacramento right now to help my wife get through law school. The original plan was to move back to Oregon when that was done. However, if Oregon is going to continue to gut the schools and other public services then maybe I'm better off not coming back. I'll miss the fishing, but my kids are far more important than that and I refuse to send them off to a bad school.

Maybe this is the hope for many? Make things so bad that people (including folks who grew up here) just leave. If that's the case, then enjoy your fishing holes in relative peace while Rome crumbles down around you. Or something like that.

Sorry. Mess with my kids and you touch a very raw nerve.

[ 01-30-2003, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: The Fishing Geek ]

Geek,
It might get worse down in California.

[Straydog]

Reelcrazy,

In my mind the adage that gov. should operate as a business is nothing more than a buzz phrase that in actuality is meaningless.

The first flaw is that it assumes all businesses run efficiently. Just which businesses shall we model? Spend a week with me and I will show you plenty that are not run efficiently. I just had one bail on his debt to our company, pack his stuff and leave by the dark of night................ shall we model our gov. after this business? Or, how about Kmart, laying of thousands of employees as we speak.? :whazzup:

The next flaw in that overused under thought- out phrase is the fact that when things get tight the first thing many businesses do is raise margins to make more money............ oh yea, the state just tried that and got voted down.

No, the "run gov. like a business" mantra dosen't pan out for this business person.

[ 01-30-2003, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Dog,
Sometimes "accountability" can cost money too. In order for me to purchase anything over $499.99 I had to find 3 vendors and get prices. Then I had to submit this to my boss to approve. Next it went to purchasing where they got another vendors price and submitted it to their boss for approval. Next to the Head of engineering for final approval and purchase. It took a minim of 30 days before things were purchased and then 2-3 weeks to get up to me.

[Straydog]

Keta,

Yes, I agree. I have a major acct. that you are familiar with (no card required to enter) with a store in Kfalls and two other places.

They spend huge amounts in labor pushing for compliance with invoices that are pennies off. Different computer systems have different rounding features so there are times our invoices are pennies (as in two!) off yet they pay accounting people to find these, a buyer to go over them with me and then I write a credit.... They have now paid two employees some 15 to 30 bucks and hour for a .50 credit. Week, after week after week.

Granted accuracy in accounting is neccessary but sometimes you are pounds foolish and penny wise, or something like that?!?!

[lost_sailor]

Government like a business.

Show me a business where all of the customers own the company.

And the owners think all of the employees are trying to rip them off.

And the employees own the company too.

[Straydog]

Sailor,

Good point.

Also, show me how to run government in such a manner as to allow me to go across the street and purchase police protection elsewhere if I don't like the service I am getting from my city.

[Lured In]

Folks while I agree that the effects of 28 may be far reaching and could likely impact many, if not most, in Oregon.

Straydog...I believe you are missing one crucial aspect of why government needs to handled "like" a business, not as a business.

First, you are correct, there are many bad business models out there. There are also some very good ones.

As far as your comment about the first thing businesses do is raise margins (actually that would be raise prices), I can't think of a business on the planet that would raise prices as a means to overcoming revenue shortfall. Any undergraduate economics student could explain why that would fail under the concepts of supply and demand. Can you point out any business to me that you know, in fact, raise prices to overcome revenue shortfall? If you can, I would be willing to bet money they will be out of business shortly.

Every business on the planet should understand that the operating costs that employees (any) bring are one of the few cost centers that can be controlled and manipulated to improve profitability.

I worked for a small tech company based out of McMinnville for almost 6 years. In March of 2000 the owner began letting us know he saw tough economic times ahead for our company. In July of 2001 the first layoffs took place. In September of 2001, every employee took a 50% paycut VOLUNTARILY! in a effort to keep from having to lay off employees. In addition the President of the company completely stopped taking any salary. In July of 2002 all else had failed and the company laid off all but one employee, the president resigned and the other principal continued the effort to restore the company.

I have been out of work for 7 months and living on roughly 1/4 of my income from the last 5 years. I am married and have two kids.

I do not blame our customer's for not buying from us, they (as businesses) had no money either.

Had the owners of our company been more cutthroat and made drastic cuts in head count very early in 2000, the company would have been able to make it and remain profitable. All businesses have to make cuts in order to survive.

I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't have to as well. I do not agree with them cutting education and protection services. That is a weak minded decision and if I were still a OR resident I would be ranting about the other areas that need to go first.

Nobody likes loosing services. But I don't see anyone in the legislature willing to give up 50% of their salary (or anyone in state government proposing that), vs cutting off the children's education. There is a real priority problem as I see it.

[Kruechief]

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT REEL CRAZY SAID!!!!

It is the absolute truth. End of biennium spending is the norm. Managers are trained to empty the coffers or be penalized.

Krue

[Empire]

Time for me to chime in on this one. I live in Sacramento, moved here in 1986 from Roseburg (I lived there during very tough economic times). California currently has a budget deficit of about 35 BILLION dollars. That is more than the entire budget of Oregon.

I do not see the deficit as a earnings problem, but as a SPENDING problem. The wrong money is being spent on projects and people for political purposes and other pork.

Example: In california, there are 25 non teaching administrators, janitors, and other staff for every 20 teachers with a classroom. Who is in charge to make cuts, the administrators. Who makes big bucks, the administrators. Whose position should be cut, the administrators. Who is not going to put themselves out of work, the administrators. I wonder how much money they make? California spends more per pupil than any other state, yet ranks amongst the lowest in test scores. Can the administrators get a pay raise for FAILING?

I do not know if 28 should have passed or not. I do know that the more money you give to the state, the more they will spend. California expected to take in 96 Billion dollars. Now, the state wont get but 61 billion of that due to "the slowed economy." I wonder who is going to get cut??? Who will be affected by the tax increases. It wont be the folks that screwed it up!

[CATCH AND EAT]

Reelcrazy and Kruechief are correct unfortuanatly. Saw this while my mother worked in welfare offices, tax assessors offices, county controlers offices, GSA, McCord AFB, and auditors offices. Get your budget and spend the living poop out of it or the remaining funds will be redistributed the following year. It is called BEING RESPONSIBLE with the taxpayers money. They are trained to waste it not save it.

I for one voted NO on 28. I certainly am not dancing on anyones grave. I am just trying to keep from being thrown into my own fiscal grave. Today I am rewriting my employee handbook, writing a memo explaining why my company can no longer pay for their medical insurance, perscription drug and life insurance policies. I am also notifying possibly 3 employees that they no longer have a job here. I have'nt had a paycheck from my business for two months and I wont be taking one for the next 7 months just so we can pay our bills. Might even get to sell my truck and Ocean boat so that I can survive another 10 months after that. Then I can cash in my 401k, sell my house and my other boat. After than I can sell my hair, my blood and pet rock. Guess what? Since I own a business I don't get unemployment. Anyone got a spare room for a family of 5.

Yep, I am dancing for sure. Not A chance. :depressed:

[Straydog]

Lured in,

Well, you are right to a degree. I should have said "one of the first things.........."

Actually, there are ways to increase margins without raising prices. That is to lower cost of goods sold........... my customers attempt it daily, trust me. Also, as you say, reducing labor costs will raise margins too and labor is one of the very few things a business can control. Unfortunately, what with unions and such, that is getting harder to do, especially in the public sector.

At any rate, I was indeed refering to raising prices and should have said such.

On the other hand, if you really believe it dosent take place I would say don't quit your day job but I guess it is moot point. Sorry you are unemployed. For reasons of confidentiality I will not reveal names of businesses that have raised prices to increase revenues.

Your comment on economics may prove out in text books but after more than 25 years in the business community and still gainfully employed, I can tell you not all works as the text books say they should.

[Cool Texan]

You can raise prices to the extent that the market will bear the increased cost. However there is an equilibrium point whereby consumers go elsewhere for the goods/services you offer. And based on the vote on 28, the market will not bear this increased burden.

That said...easiest way to increase bottom line margins is to cut your costs. Do more with less, increase your efficiencies in various processes, etc. When that doesnt work, you break out the headcount chainsaw, fire it up, and cut your costs. That is not a fun way to do it...but it will cut your costs. When is the last time Oregon downsized the overall government size/structure?

Its a spending problem plain and simple. My coworker was telling me about an article in Oregon Business magazine talking about various benchmarks for Oregon versus other states. In this area, Oregon spends more on education per student (according to the article...cant find it online) than Idaho, California, and I'd assume Washington. Hard to understand how we could have a shortage all of a sudden...unless our school system is bloated with fat. Just one example...surely there are others.

[Sadie-Lynne]

Hogtide,
I am sorry to hear of the loss in wage, but I feel that people are looking the wrong way. The voters are not the ones that are doing this to you. It is the state and a complete mis-management of budget. We need to look at what the state really takes. Its not just our pay check. They tax things I buy, registration fees for everything that I own, property tax, permits for about anything that I want to do or build, lottery monies. The things that I list do not cover everything they get either. They now want to raise your insurance 3% to pay for OSP. At what point do we make them accountable. What should goverment be involved in and paying for and what shouln't they.

[SHLEPROCK]

The thing that puzzles me is that we have been getting kicker checks back because we have been paying taxes in excess of the guidelines and now they are cutting services.

The largest employer is the government and I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if our government gets any larger they will be able to control the polls.

[ 01-30-2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: SHLEPROCK ]

[Beer Waggin]

I too took a huge pay cut in the last two years. So bad in fact that I had to sell my boat, almost lost a house and couldn’t afford gas to get to the bank to fish, let alone a new lure, egg cure or bait of any kind. Last year was easily my worst since I was in college. I didn’t overspend when things were good, I did increase my fun money a bit, but I tried for the most part to bank the increased commissions I was seeing. That banked money ran out pretty quickly when I needed it.
I truly feel for those who will loose money, jobs and their way of living resulting from 28 failing, but I can not and will not side with a tax increase. Being a single white male I get heavily taxed, I receive no welfare and I was just notified by my accountant that my state taxes were increased last year. My increase allowed the state to decrease the married with children population’s taxes. That makes me so happy!! Glad I could help all of those families out. Another hundred or so buck’s from me? They already got it!
:whazzup:

[TheRogue]

As a "married with children tax evader", I see both sides of your complaint, NRDave. On one side, MOST 2 income married with children families contribute more to the state budget by the larger houses the live in (more property taxes), the larger amounts of utilities they use (taxes on utilities) and the amount of time they spend driving to and from work (gas taxes). Also, they contribute to the economy much more than a single person, because of more purchases of goods, paying for daycare/babysitting, and keeping fastfood joints open. However, the lower income families are also a much larger drain on state budgets than a single person. And, of course, it costs more to educate 2 kids than 0. (duhh!!)

I, personally, am not in that low-income bracket. Getting married and having children is a choice..one that most people make, and some don't. You shouldn't be penalized if you don't make that choice...but trust me, the tax cuts were not the reason we had kids.

I didn't make a darn bit of sense in that babbling, did I?

TR

[skein]

When we get people back to work, things will be better. For everyone.

Anyone who isn't trying to do that is part of the problem - Governor, Legislators, Republicans, Democrats, are you listening?

Are you listening!

Skein

[Tempered Steel]

Why should the private sector lay off, while governement employees never get laid off? Enough is enough!!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I'll tell you why they don't get laid off. It's because a large portion of the state's employees are "temporary". These employees don't get laid off, their jobs just expire. That way the state doesn't have to pay full benefits. Plus they don't have to deal with the union. So, you're right, they don't often get laid off, their jobs just disappear. Half a dozen of one, six of another.

Managers are encouraged to spend everything in their budget so they can get bigger budgets the next year.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">No offense, but this is garbage in the state government that I work for. Much of the money is not available to spend until the end of the biennium, so that is when equipment upgrades are made. Every expense is heavily scrutinized and downgraded if at all possible.

Many people here have said that agencies should be cut to run on bare bones budgets. Fine, lets do that. If you need the product that I produce, you can pay $1000 minimum instead of the $10 for materials we currently charge. $1000 is at least what you would pay if you wanted the same thing from a private contractor. Dont believe me? Call a private cartographer and get a quote.

And finally what I am REALLY tired of, is the way the public treats public employees. Why do I get the feeling that most people relate public employees to some type of livelihood-sucking alien from another planet? Guess what? You're RIGHT!! A bunch of us came from the planet Flug many years ago to create public jobs and provide crappy service. All this just so we could to take all your hard earned money and make your lives miserable!!! Wheeeeeee!!!!

OR MAYBE, I just paid for an education, found a job that pays more than McDonalds, in an area that I want to live, has some security (or used to), and provides me with some intellectual stimulation that I enjoy. Whats wrong with that?????

Having ranted enough for now, I would like to say that I enjoy what I do and the opportunity I have been given to work for and with the great people of this state. Oh, and no, I didn't vote yes on 28.

T. Steel

[SandySteel]

When will the voters and legislators of this state figure out that education is an engine of the economy?
We train the future workers. Without quality education our workers will not have the skills to bring about economic change.
If we get the reputation as a state that will canibalize its educational systems rather than seeking a stable funding base what business will want to move here?

[Lured In]

Originally posted by Straydog:
Lured in,

On the other hand, if you really believe it dosent take place I would say don't quit your day job but I guess it is moot point. Sorry you are unemployed.

Your comment on economics may prove out in text books but after more than 25 years in the business community and still gainfully employed, I can tell you not all works as the text books say they should.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Straydog...you really have gone astray. I can honestly say in the year and half that I have been on this board, I have yet to see a comment like this. :shocked:

I refuse to stoop to name calling or other insinuations about your intellegence or professional capabilities. I am a very successful businessman and am proud to say while employed, I held the ears of CEO's, CIO's and CFO's of some very notable companies. Hardly something you would expect from someone trying to hold on to their day job with any less than a firm grasp for business.

I would encourage you to exercise some professional courtesy and focus on the discussion.

[ 01-30-2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Lured In ]

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Play nice Straydog, wither but for the grace of God go thee… :depressed:

[Beer Waggin]

Rogue-
I see your point about twice the income, twice the tax, etc., and like you/I said, I have no children so I pay and pay. Not saying that I don't want a family, it just hasn't happened yet. I own two houses and a business, so I see my fare share of taxes. Do I like paying taxes? Does anybody? I bet we all agree that we enjoy our daily freedoms that our tax dollars provide.
I want to believe that schools are teaching the future of this country. I went to public school and think I received the best education that I allowed myself to (I screwed around a lot). I was still able to enter a state college and participate in athletics, so my grades weren't that bad. My Dad headed the "Yes for Kids" committee when similiar new taxes were trying to be passed when I was in high school in the mid eighties, so I know the thought process that goes into these types of deals. Do I think education should take a hit on this one? NO, but we don't get to make the decision as to where the cuts are made. That decision is made by the people we (probably wrongfully) elected. It's a crappy deal, but there are very few people in this country that aren't having to tighten their belts these days. Why shouldn't the Gov. have to as well?

[Gun Rod Bow]

Just can't stay out of this one.

Business are absolutley accountable in the free market. If they offer a good product/service, people will pay them for it. If someone else offers the same or better for less $, they loose business.

It is human nature to spend "other people's money" differently than your own.

While watching the morning news Wednesday morning after the vote, I see the lead story of "we're letting prisoners out of jail now" see..news cameras and all.

Immediately followed by "Cheif Kroker is flying to Mexico for 10 days with a bunch of cops so they can learn to interact with Mexicans". While Vera is out trying to buy a baseball team.

Why didn't Kroker just ride a bus to Woodburn, or Hillsboro?

WHAT A BUNCH OF CARP!! (yeh Geek, missspelled)

The economy is down, people are laid off, companies are closing, the private sector is in a tough place..while.. the state budget has increased faster than the personal income in this state for the past 10 years. Why should the private sector lay off, while governement employees never get laid off? Enough is enough!!

You out of work teachers want to be mad at someone? Be mad at your administrators. Be mad at your past Govenor for using you as a football along with our state cops.

This is not an education crisis. It is a budget crisis. Did we need a new boat ramp in Newberg? NO, Clackamette? NO.

Should the Oregon Health Plan spend millions on frivilous expenses (I have a great example)

Spend money on protection (law and fire) first, education second, evrything else is on the block. Education is going to need to make some tough choices. Portland finally privatized their janitors. Good start. Why do private school kids get more education for less $ even if you factor in special ed?

We live in a state that was designed to pay for education with timber sales. No more timber sales...what happens...No Kidding!

[5-Cents]

Hogtide,

I am sorry about your situation. It’s just not government that is hurting right now it is everyone. A few months after 9-11 I had to layoff 7 people in my 20 person staff. I own a business and I did what I had to do to keep the doors open.

I did vote no on 28 because it does not really address the problems that we are facing in Oregon. The last several years the government has grown at an exponential rate. Managers are encouraged to spend everything in their budget so they can get bigger budgets the next year. If my memory serves me right Portland School Teachers were just recently threatening a strike if they did not get a pay raise and increased benefits. Take a reality check. My employees have had their pay frozen for the past year so they could keep their job.

Until our esteemed elected officials can take the leap into fixing this problem we will revisit these types of situations for years to come. Get rid of property taxes, reduce the income tax and institute a sales tax. Problem is the government just wants to raise, or create new taxes. The majority of people have had enough.

I have hopes that Gov. K. is the guy that has enough gumption to get us out of some of these situations, that’s saying a lot for me as usually sit on the right side of the spectrum.

I hope everything works out for you and your family. Just remember to have an open mind… this is still America and many opportunities abound for those individuals that are willing to make their own way and not rely on someone else.