No posting about abortion or religion??

[TheRogue]

A poll.....

While I love having this wide open venue provided to us by Jen, I would hate to see it involve the two most controversial topics...abortion and religion. Who agrees that these two should be generally off-limits on this board??

[Cool Texan]

I just voted Rogue....and even voted for you to stay. I believe in Free Speech....even if you were totally wrong about 28.

:grin:

[lost_sailor]

My experience has been there is no argument more futile than abortion. Everyone is right, no one is going to change their mind one bit.

There's a whole board that seems to be dedicated to one religion ... but yeah, religion is also futile to argue, nothing positive can come of it.

I don't want to make rules, though, I didn't vote in your poll. Go fishing sounds really good.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Now you've done it Kyle. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img] :shocked:

[TheRogue]

sorry about the poll...just noticed a little blurb on one of the other posts, and thought that maybe with the high tension on the board right now, it was the LAST thing that needed to come up!!

TR

[Silver Hilton]

As much as I love to debate, these are two areas where there isn't much room to debate without angering people. I think it's a good way to stress friendships, and should be avoided, unless everyone knows each other well enough to know when to stop the party. I don't think that describes a public forum.

[happybrew]

I think the key is "inflammatory". What is that? I think that a discussion could be conducted with mutual respect, but with abortion I have found that this doesn't always happen. Personally, if people can remain on friendly terms, sure, I think it would be okay. But I seriously doubt that people will remain on friendly terms. I think that since it's Jenny's board, it should be Jenny's decision.

I did post something about abortion in the Angler's Chapel. I noticed the next day that the Angler's Chapel now had a moderator listed, Jenny. I didn't want to debate the matter, as I don't think that is an appropriate forum for debate. I just wanted to remind those who wanted to pray that it was a good day to pray about that issue. On the other hand, do we want to see somebody condemning anyone who has an abortion? I think that would be wrong. My personal opinion is that women are victimized by it. (No, I don't want to debate without Jenny's okay, just want to let people know that I am concerned about women, and would never want to condemn anybody, make anybody feel guilty or disliked, or marginalize anybody.)

Would we want anybody posting a so-called "proof" that the Pope is the anti-Christ, and Catholics will go to Hell? Would we want somebody posting that atheists are condemned by God? Clearly things like this would be inflammatory. I could post tons of things, all of them well documented but little known facts about abortion that somebody would certainly find to be inflammatory, even though I consider them to be simple facts that prove my case. I'm not talking about photos or anything like that, but practices of the abortion industry that do serious harm to large groups of women. I guarantee you that a lot of people would consider that inflammatory. I also guarantee you that a few people would change their minds about abortion as a result. Not many, but a few. As the price of that exchange, there would be a lot of people who wouldn't like me, because if I'm going to argue, I'm going to argue to conclusively prove my case.

This happened once a few years ago under an old moderator, only the issue was population control. I was unpopular as a result. Heck, I probably still am unpopular. If it comes up, I will be morally obligated to argue my point. I can not do otherwise. Some people think it's brave to do that, others think it's stupid, others think it's reprehensible. It's not any of those. It is simply my moral obligation, and so I must fulfill it. Quite frankly, I dread what people will say about me and think about me if it becomes a topic of discussion. There are probably people who are already thinking those things about me just reading this. I like iFish, and I like the people here. A lot of iFishers will not like me if abortion becomes a topic of debate. If it does become a topic of debate, I have no other choice than to participate. It will be out of my hands. I cannot say no to that topic. I would have to answer to God for my silence. It's Jenny's board. It's her decision. Would I welcome a forum to discuss this? I have to welcome it. But I know that people won't like me if it does.

Doug

:depressed:

[Lured In]

TR..why do the topics have to be inflammatory? Can they just be plain ol' topics of discussion?

BTW...its time for you to go fishing, then you can come back and play. :tongue: :grin:

[The Fishing Geek]

I normally abort from religion topics, especially that flyfishing stuff. They're zealots. Almost as bad as the carp-anglers.

[Silver Hilton]

Well, what about the carp flyfishers? They're the worst!

Lest you think I jest, there is a book out on flyfishing for carp. They are very, very selective. There is a group of montana guides that fish for carp with flies on their days off.

[HOGTIDE]

Hey Kyle...I didn't know how to vote. I have very definite feelings about both topics. But I didn't know if their debate should be censored or promoted.

I have to agree with the other guys, in that I don't believe anyone would 'ever' be influenced one way or the other through a BB discussion. It would probably just irritate each side and alienate us from engaging with each other in a positive manner in the future.

People who have opposing views on these issues, usually operate from directly opposite bases in their view of what life is really all about. I say my purpose in life is to please God by keeping his commandments, and you'll think I am a zealot. My opponent is a humanist and thinks the purpose of life is for man to please himself and ensure his own liberties and I think he is an unenlightened pagan. ....see, no chance for mutual connections on critical issues.

Anyway, I still don't know if censoring the topic is necessary.

[WaterDog]

What I have seen on the only other board I frequent is that no matter how it starts, if its about religion or abortion it gets ugly and gets there in a hurry. The powers there decided no discussion is allowed on those two subjects. Friendships have been lost. :depressed:

On the other hand, I bet it would be a lively and entertaining exchange since M28 is done.

[omnivore]

Originally posted by happybrew:

Heck, I probably still am unpopular. If it comes up, I will be morally obligated to argue my point. I can not do otherwise. Some people think it's brave to do that, others think it's stupid, others think it's reprehensible. It's not any of those. It is simply my moral obligation, and so I must fulfill it. Quite frankly, I dread what people will say about me and think about me if it becomes a topic of discussion. There are probably people who are already thinking those things about me just reading this. I like iFish, and I like the people here. A lot of iFishers will not like me if abortion becomes a topic of debate. If it does become a topic of debate, I have no other choice than to participate. It will be out of my hands. I cannot say no to that topic. I would have to answer to God for my silence. It's Jenny's board. It's her decision. Would I welcome a forum to discuss this? I have to welcome it. But I know that people won't like me if it does.
Doug
:depressed:

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">You seem convinced, even before anyone said a word, that you don't really believe in your position. I have heard once that a person of conviction never worries about what others may criticize, but a person of little conviction always worry about what others might say.

[happybrew]

Omnivore, you truly have no idea what you are talking about. I just get tired of being called names. Heck, I even had to deal with with it at my wedding reception, when my wife's step mom told my mom that she shouldn't have had all of those kids and should have aborted them, and there was the implication that she especially should have aborted the handicapped one. She told me I was a stooge for the Pope. If you think I have no conviction, guess again. I just got done with a big debate about it on another forum, and it was said during that debate that the pro-life movement is a plot by the Catholic Church to get the support of Protestantism and thus destroy their autonomy, and as a Catholic pro-lifer I was a worker for the anti-Christ. Wouldn't you get tired of being called names? However, if you are throwing down the gauntlet, just say so.

happybrew

[ 01-29-2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

[STGRule]

Realistically? It is hard for me to believe any of us could change another’s mind. We have had our positions for a long while now. But, I also believe that we need to hear WHY others think the way they do. Not what, but why. That says as much about character as anything else. Happybrew: we will never agree on abortion. But just from reading what you wrote, I know WHY you stand on that side of the line. That doesn't mean I won't like you. It just means we won't agree on this.
Religion is probably harder still to talk about. There is nothing that even remotely resembles a middle to start from. But again, if I know why I can fit that into my beliefs too. If nothing else, we know what not to talk about at the next tackle swap.

[happybrew]

STG Rule: You're right that I will probably never change your mind about abortion, and that's okay. You're still cool. However, I've found out a lot of stuff that most people are not aware of about how harmful abortion is to women that might be an eye opener for you. (okay, I just snipped all of the stuff that I just wrote because I PROMISED myself I wouldn't do this unless and until Jenny explicitly said it was okay. You don't know how hard it is for me. I would literally be up all night writing, and my wife would be mad at me. Do you have that same problem?)

happybrew

It gets bad enough here as it is :depressed:

[crabbait]

Oh yeah...that's just what I need! If anyome wants to argue, discuss, debate, etc either religion or abortion I have two suggestions for you.

1. Exchange e-mail addresses and discuss away.

2. Go to chat and hammer each other...its available all the time and I won't have to clean up the mess.

Please. People have very strongly held beliefs on these topics and no one is going to be swayed by the discussion.

I don't need the work.

[happybrew]

Thank you Crabbait, for the clarification of your expectations. I was hoping a moderator would give us some input on whether this would or would not be an acceptable topic of discussion in this forum. I shall obey! Quite frankly, I'd rather than [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

happybrew

I agree with you Crabbait. It's already bad enough here.

[fishin_lisa]

Darn, I was looking forward to some nasty, hair-pulling, knuckle-busting, full drag out fights...but I guess I must obey the mod :grin:

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by fishin_lisa:
Darn, I was looking forward to some nasty, hair-pulling, knuckle-busting, full drag out fights...but I guess I must obey the mod :grin:

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Please don't ever underestimate the passion of the common iFisher. We don't need topics like religion or abortion to get us whipped into a lather. Just make a comment like "Corkie users are snaggers", "I use predominantly bait to catch native steelhead", "Gill-netters are crucial to our fisheries", or "What do you think about Northriver boats" and you will witness all of the fury and passion that two index fingers can tap out on the keyboard. :grin:

[Snapset]

When i get really mad, it isn't my index fingers I am typing with.....

[GutshotApe]

My 2 cents worth:

If people want to start abortion or religion threads, thats fine with me. I promise not to read them or participate in them............those who want to debate abortion or religion should be able to do so.....just count me out.

It is the controversial topics that make internet sites like ifish interesting. Nobody is forced to read anything and all computers have a back button - so, if it gets too hot for you, change the channel!

Two fingers and my forehead :smile:

[Tilla]

Right on Crab bait!
We don't need the stress.