Are bobbers -- strike indicators -- not fly fishing?

[Chester Allen]

Got a guy on my blog -- he seems nice enough -- telling me that using Thingamabobber strike indicators means I'm not fly fishing.
I disagree -- more on that in my blog -- but I was wondering what everyone else thinks....

[Dan360]

I don't agree. I know some people feel that if you're not fishing dries, you're not fly fishing. In my opinion, fly fishing isn't about how you detect a strike. Strike indicators aren't even limited to being bobbers. I use strike indicators as a means to make my presentation in different stages of the water column.

In a way, I think that using a strike indicator makes you a more versatile fly fisherman. It can turn a day of being skunked into a day of catching fish. In the end, isn't that part of the point of being on the water? I'll tell you one thing, I'm not trying to do an interpretive dance when I'm out on the water!

Its like telling a guy who uses a capo that he isn't a true guitar player because he can't play his cords without the help of the capo.

[Fly Junkie]

I think if you are whiping that fly line back and forth with a fly on the end it counts whether you have a strike indicator or not.

[Slow and Low]

to each their own. I use them. They are absolutely a bobber though;-) who said you can't flyfish with a bobber?

[AndyK]

2009 Oregon Sport Fishing Regulations, Page 7:
“Strike Indicator – A hookless, unscented floating device attached to the line or leader for the purpose of signaling a strike at the fly. The point of the attachment must be at least 18 inches from the fly. Strike indicators are not considered an “attachment” or an “attractor” and are therefore permitted in fly angling and artificial fly waters, except the North Umpqua.”

Legally, a strike indicator is fly fishing, at least in Oregon.

In fact, when using a "greased line" presentation for steelhead, I watch the floating end of my fly line for any "indications" that a fish has taken the fly. Is my floating line an indicator?

When using a shortline nymphing presentaton for trout, steelhead and salmon, I watch my leader where it is entering the water for any hesitation or movement to indicate a strike. Is my leader an indicator?

Personally I think fly fishermen should be more concerned with the question whether a gear fisherman is really a sportsman or just a meat fisherman...

[AndyK]

I forgot: Frederick Maurice Halford was an idiot and G.E.M. Skues is a saint .

[NWaddict]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Personally I think fly fishermen should be more concerned with the question whether a gear fisherman is really a sportsman or just a meat fisherman...

That's beautiful.

I suppose maybe's there's some tongue-in-cheek in that statement, but I cant help but wonder if hunters can be sportsmen?

Maybe we'll see a faction of fly fishermen team up with PETA some day.

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by NWaddict

I suppose maybe's there's some tongue-in-cheek in that statement, but I cant help but wonder if hunters can be sportsmen?

Yeah, lots of "tongue-in-cheek" because I think fly fishermen should have a united front and eliminate the "internal" squabbling...

Haven't you heard about "catch & release" hunting? I passed up easy shots at three (legal) spike elk last year. Isn't that similar to catch & release?

What about passing up shots at teal, shovelers or pintail when duck hunting?

[358norma]

NWaddict,

Didn't you get the memo? You can't be a sportsman unless you wear simms waders and studded boots, use a $300 wading staff, $600 (min) sage or orvis fly rod and drive a subabru with a TU, Patagonia and Obama sticker in the back window! Geesh...I would have though everyone knew that by now!!

[Chester Allen]

My main vehicle is a Subaru, and it has a surfboard rack on the top, rain gear and other junk stowed in a plastic tub on the backseat and a couple flyfishing rod tubes rattling around back there somewhere.

My surfing shorts are from Patagonia -- the most comfortable and most low-key around -- but my wetsuit is from Xcel. I wear out a pair of waders every year, and I tend to buy the one that is on sale. I would never buy waders that have a zipper for easy peeing.

My boots are on their third set of felt soles, but I'm thinking about buying some of the new boots that have soles that won't carry around New Zealand mud snails or whirling disease virus. Then again, I worry that those new soles will make me slip and fall in the river even more than I do now.

My vest has Thingamabobbers, dry flies, bead-head nymphs, streamers and a big plastic bag of beef jerky.

My wading staff -- when I use one -- used to be an alder branch lying on a gravel bar.

My favorite Sage fly rod is the VPS, which cost much less than $500.

I must have gotten the memo, but, like most memos, I forgot most of it right away....

Originally Posted by 358norma

NWaddict,

Didn't you get the memo? You can't be a sportsman unless you wear simms waders and studded boots, use a $300 wading staff, $600 (min) sage or orvis fly rod and drive a subabru with a TU, Patagonia and Obama sticker in the back window! Geesh...I would have though everyone knew that by now!!

[Chester Allen]

And PETA is a dangerous collection of biased, ignorant nitwits. I didn't need a memo to figure that one out.

[NWaddict]

Originally Posted by Chester Allen

And PETA is a dangerous collection of biased, ignorant nitwits.

Exactly.

[Skunked]

It takes more skill to cast and fish and indicator rig than it does a dry fly.
I think that is sometimes the real reason that people put down indicators

Well at least that's what I tell my friends when they make fun of all the split shot on my leader

[Dan360]

Originally Posted by Chester Allen

My vest has Thingamabobbers, dry flies, bead-head nymphs, streamers and a big plastic bag of beef jerky.

You were a dead ringer for a sportsman until I saw the bag of beef jerky! J/K.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Skunked

It takes more skill to cast and fish and indicator rig than it does a dry fly.
I think that is sometimes the real reason that people put down indicators

Well at least that's what I tell my friends when they make fun of all the split shot on my leader

I don't know...that may be a stretch;-)

[stoneflyguy]

Purist believe it is not fly fishing to use a bobber or strike indicator. Let them believe what they want. I also am told it is not fly fishing to use a sinking leader or sinking line. I say Bah to the purist and do what you want. Why does it matter what anyone thinks about the way you present a fly, I have seen it all and I do what it takes to catch fish. Sure it's great to catch fish on dries or natural swing. I've also been told it's not fly fishing to use a bead head fly. Give me a break!!!

[BigSteelyHead123]

I still think it's fly fishing in a way... but.... why would you want to cast a heavy weighted fly and strike indicator with a fly rod?? Why not just use a center pin or spinning set-up???? If I go fly fishing, I'm either dead drifting, swinging, or fishing dry flies. If I want to use a jig and bobber, I'll use my spinning rod.

[walt1er]

I fly fish with (and without) strike indicators, bobbers, lead, a spinning rod, a bait casting rod, and a fly rod.

People who restrict themselves to casting flies a certain way are like people who restrict themselves to lighting cigars with a particular denomination of money.

Who cares?

The point is to light the cigar and enjoy it.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by walt1er

I fly fish with (and without) strike indicators, bobbers, lead, a spinning rod, a bait casting rod, and a fly rod.

People who restrict themselves to casting flies a certain way are like people who restrict themselves to lighting cigars with a particular denomination of money.

Who cares?

The point is to light the cigar and enjoy it.

Nice, I like that.

[358norma]

He who has the most fun wins.

[mrett]

Excellant just Excellant......

Next I'll be shamed for nymphing up steelhead on my 5 wt. when I should have been swingin......

I thought it was was the journey............ ie. the road less traveled by

[NCL]

Originally Posted by 358norma

He who has the most fun wins.

Now there is a perfect truism. Mind if I use the saying?

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by mrett

Excellant just Excellant......

Next I'll be shamed for nymphing up steelhead on my 5 wt. when I should have been swingin......

I thought it was was the journey............ ie. the road less traveled by

doubt it but you might hear about using a 5 weight for steelhead.

[kigercreek]

Am I right that some of you cast flies DOWNSTREAM...and not using a tonkin cane rod? Good grief, what has our angling fraternity turned in to?? Using flies which sink is one thing, but now I'm guessing some actually use knotless leaders. Silk fly lines and soaked cat gut leaders probably aren't even in your repertoire, either. Tsk, tsk.

Seriously, this is a debate which has graced forums for years. Who cares? I read a heated discussion on a fly fishing site once arguing about up locking vs down locking reel seats. There are some who would puke on their breathables if they saw an angler in their same stretch of water using an automatic fly reel or a Wright & McGill rod. We have become a generation of fly snobs, priding ourselves on the expense of our overpriced gear, flaunting it like others really give a crap. God bless those who scrape together what they can and enjoy the experience more than those putting on the show. Yes, I have more rods than I need, carry a couple kinds of indicators with me, and probably only catch more fish now than I did 25 years ago because I can read water better and fish smarter. It's all flyfishing...

[Wild Chrome]

The snobs seem to enjoy their superior methods more than they enjoy the fish. Hense, they know more about their methods than they do the fish (IMHO). I can't relate b/c, to me, it's ALL about the fish.

[pharmseller]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Yeah, lots of "tongue-in-cheek" because I think fly fishermen should have a united front and eliminate the "internal" squabbling...

Haven't you heard about "catch & release" hunting? I passed up easy shots at three (legal) spike elk last year. Isn't that similar to catch & release?

What about passing up shots at teal, shovelers or pintail when duck hunting?

Hey AndyK,
Can I go elk hunting with you next time?


P

[TillamookChinook]

I'm from the Rodney King School of Fishing: "Can't we all just get along?"

TC

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by BigSteelyHead123

why would you want to cast a heavy weighted fly and strike indicator with a fly rod??

Because I can and it "pleases me".

Originally Posted by BigSteelyHead123

If I want to use a jig and bobber, I'll use my spinning rod.

A jig is not a fly and a bobber is not an indicator...
And fishing with a spinning rod is not a challenge.

[Wild Chrome]

Originally Posted by AndyK

And fishing with a spinning rod is not a challenge.

We could have used you in the boat yesterday!

[BigSteelyHead123]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Because I can and it "pleases me".



A jig is not a fly and a bobber is not an indicator...
And fishing with a spinning rod is not a challenge.

Glad I struck a nerve with at least one person! HAHA
No I think it's perfectly fine and very effective, but it comes to a point where some guys are using 1/16oz lead head "flies" and HUUGE indicators.. then I think it's kinda dumb and you may as well use a spinning rod.

[358norma]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Because I can and it "pleases me".



A jig is not a fly and a bobber is not an indicator...
And fishing with a spinning rod is not a challenge.

Neither is fishing with a fly rod.. It's all in the perspective. If fishing with the fly rod makes you feel like you have achieved something that the guy tossing spinners didn't then good for you. I hope your little bubble never gets popped.

[Wild Chrome]

Hey Chester,
I got bored and just read your thread on "the other" fly board. Reminded me why I decided not to waste any more time..............

I'd rather spend time talking to people who think more of the fish than of themselves. The fish are FAR more interesting!

[BigSteelyHead123]

Originally Posted by 358norma

Neither is fishing with a fly rod.. It's all in the perspective. If fishing with the fly rod makes you feel like you have achieved something that the guy tossing spinners didn't then good for you. I hope your little bubble never gets popped.

That's very true. Frankly, I think fly fishing with indicators and weighted flies is one of the easier methods for steelhead.

[wapiteaser]

I can see how PETA people and the die hard fly fishermen could be similar. They both think their poop don't stink. AndyK, I suppose all the springer fishermen are meat fishermen and not sportsmen? According to your statement that would be true. On the Deschutes, there are more trout killed by fly fishermen than gear fishermen. Same for Steelhead. It is so much easier to catch a trout with a fly than gear. I can go down on the river and catch a couple dozen trout on fly gear almost any day. Throwing spinners and other gear is a challenge. I have fished a lot of bubble and fly with spinning gear in large eddies because I couldn't reach it with my fly rod. That must make me a fly fishermen then.

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by wapiteaser

AndyK, I suppose all the springer fishermen are meat fishermen and not sportsmen?

I tag very few steelhead and Coho. One each in the last three years.

On the other hand, I tag most (not all) the Chinook I catch, and I only fish with a fly rod. I filled one hatchery harvest tag in 2007 with just Chinook and had to buy a second...

What makes a "meat fisherman"? Tagging all the legal steelhead/salmon you catch? Just tagging one?

Besides, aren't we really getting off point on this thread?

[sothereiwas]

Some peoples love of fishing goes beyond catching dinner. Everyone draws the line in the sand in a different place. I personally cant stand nymphing, indicator or not. Not because I'm a purist, but because it bores the living crap out of me.

Carry on

[Nuchal Rouge]

It's fishing. It's ridiculous and childish to attack anothers way of fishing unless it is unethical. Jerking a fish around on a whippy pole with no to minimal drag and then releasing it exhausted, is better then hooking it on a chunk a guts and whacking it? The latter is the law of nature. Maybe you shouldn't fish unless you intend to kill only what you'll eat and then quit. Just so you know I do both catch and whack and catch and release but I'm not concieted enough to think one is better then the other. In fact I love fly fishing for the challenge. Nymphing isn't flyfishing? I agree with Wild Chrome it's about the fish. Whatever floats your boat.

[Tar Heel]

I remember when I first saw people using the big ol' "strike indicators" (now it seems everyone does) and I thought they were for rookies. Then I tried it and darn if it's not a great FF technique!

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by wapiteaser

I can see how PETA people and the die hard fly fishermen could be similar. They both think their poop don't stink. AndyK, I suppose all the springer fishermen are meat fishermen and not sportsmen? According to your statement that would be true. On the Deschutes, there are more trout killed by fly fishermen than gear fishermen. Same for Steelhead. It is so much easier to catch a trout with a fly than gear. I can go down on the river and catch a couple dozen trout on fly gear almost any day. Throwing spinners and other gear is a challenge. I have fished a lot of bubble and fly with spinning gear in large eddies because I couldn't reach it with my fly rod. That must make me a fly fishermen then.

Are you kidding? This is nonsense from top to bottom.

[smalldog]

I'm still under the impression that I am fly fishing even with a spinning reel as long as I am using a FLY as bait...lol

[Zugbug66]

The first time I fished, there was a strike indicator on my leader. When I'm trout fishing, I have one on 90% of the time. I love to get steelies on the swing, because it's peaceful, and I like the way steelhead take a fly on the swing. But I have caught 3 times as many steelies nymphing than i have on the swing. By the way, I like the high float yarn indicators better than corkies. You don't have to carry toothpics!
Wayne

[TallFlyGuy]

Originally Posted by wapiteaser

On the Deschutes, there are more trout killed by fly fishermen than gear fishermen. Same for Steelhead. It is so much easier to catch a trout with a fly than gear. I can go down on the river and catch a couple dozen trout on fly gear almost any day. Throwing spinners and other gear is a challenge. I have fished a lot of bubble and fly with spinning gear in large eddies because I couldn't reach it with my fly rod. That must make me a fly fishermen then.

HAHA, Seriously the funniest thing I think I've read on the net. Please share your references and source of facts. Anyone can pull facts out of their ___.

[Abalone]

Strike indicator or no strike indicator if there is a fly on the end of your fly line it's fly fishing and it's fun...

I don't regard the people that won't use a strike indicator as a snob or a puritan, as far as I am concerned it's what ever makes your boat float.
Different strokes for different folks..

[SilverFly]

A strike indicator debate, - I'm shocked!!! Dead horse or not, once you boil away the personal preference spins (pun intended), this seemingly eternal debate is really a technical question.

Fly fishing was developed because a hook dressed with feathers and fur doesn't have enough weight to be cast by itself. The technical essence of fly fishing is that the line itself is the vehicle for presenting the "lure", - PERIOD!

By contrast, all "gear" methods rely on the lure/bait/sinker/float having enough weight to be cast or sink on their own, taking the line with it. If you're using the weight of the indicator or split shot to "lob" the fly, - you're essentially "gear" fishing even with a fly outfit. However, if the line is carrying the fly, - you are fly-fishing, regardless of any strike indicators, or even split shot being attached. I would even go so far to suggest I could rig a spinning rod with a heavy mono line, a tippet and fly, - strip off line and "fly cast." Granted this wouldn't be graceful, or meet the legal definition of fly fishing, but if the line carried the fly far enough to fish, - essentially it's fly fishing.

My personal preference "spin" on indicators is they work great, but are sometimes more hassle than they are worth. Normally I prefer short-leash nymphing myself which is more appropriate to the pocket water I like to fish anyway. And BTW, getting your fly in front of a steelhead or salmon holding in a slight depression, behind a rock, on a unstable current seam, downstream from the horizontal vortex created by a fallen log, - constitutes a worthy sporting challenge in my book.

[Chester Allen]

Well, it certainly seems like a lot of us have given this a lot of thought, and there is some passion on just about every angle.

It was interesting to read the post that stated catching a trout on a fly is easier than on gear. I think that is true sometimes -- particularly with wild trout in rivers that get a lot of fishing pressure. Then again, I once saw picky, picky spring creek trout get silly when a kid tossed a Roostertail in the water.

I think any blanket statement about fishing is a blanket that almost always has a few holes.....

Anyway, I have really enjoyed all of this thread.

[Newbs]

If it's effective... and it's legal...and you enjoy it...have fun. Personally I like to fish with dry flies. But sometimes I use a large foam stone fly with a dropper... I guess that's an indicator. Does that mean I don't qualify as a "purist"? Oh well. One man's purist is another man's nemesis.

Last year, while fishing on the upper ******* I was approached by a young boy who was camping close by with his family. He asked if I had anything he could use to "catch a fish". All he had was a long tree branch. I rigged him up with a long piece of monofilament, a small foam float and one of my "secret weapon" flies and showed him how to float it into the logs. About three minutes later I heard him scream from down stream. Then he ran by me at full speed heading for camp. He had a nice 14 inch rainbow dangling from the tree branch. He’s yelling to his dad "I caught a fish, I caught a fish". His smile went clear around his head.

That's one of the "purest" moments I've ever had.


Sorry to get philosophical...

[Chester Allen]

I agree! Somehow, I think a new angler was created on that day....

Originally Posted by Newbs

If it's effective... and it's legal...and you enjoy it...have fun. Personally I like to fish with dry flies. But sometimes I use a large foam stone fly with a dropper... I guess that's an indicator. Does that mean I don't qualify as a "purist"? Oh well. One man's purist is another man's nemesis.

Last year, while fishing on the upper ******* I was approached by a young boy who was camping close by with his family. He asked if I had anything he could use to "catch a fish". All he had was a long tree branch. I rigged him up with a long piece of monofilament, a small foam float and one of my "secret weapon" flies and showed him how to float it into the logs. About three minutes later I heard him scream from down stream. Then he ran by me at full speed heading for camp. He had a nice 14 inch rainbow dangling from the tree branch. He’s yelling to his dad "I caught a fish, I caught a fish". His smile went clear around his head.

That's one of the "purest" moments I've ever had.


Sorry to get philosophical...

[firesweep]

Originally Posted by kigercreek

Am I right that some of you cast flies DOWNSTREAM...and not using a tonkin cane rod? Good grief, what has our angling fraternity turned in to?? Using flies which sink is one thing, but now I'm guessing some actually use knotless leaders. Silk fly lines and soaked cat gut leaders probably aren't even in your repertoire, either. Tsk, tsk.

Seriously, this is a debate which has graced forums for years. Who cares? I read a heated discussion on a fly fishing site once arguing about up locking vs down locking reel seats. There are some who would puke on their breathables if they saw an angler in their same stretch of water using an automatic fly reel or a Wright & McGill rod. We have become a generation of fly snobs, priding ourselves on the expense of our overpriced gear, flaunting it like others really give a crap. God bless those who scrape together what they can and enjoy the experience more than those putting on the show. Yes, I have more rods than I need, carry a couple kinds of indicators with me, and probably only catch more fish now than I did 25 years ago because I can read water better and fish smarter. It's all flyfishing...

What's so bad about Wright & McGill? I love my featherlights.

[Klickman]

So does it mean that if you fish with a bobber, its a bobber not an indicator, your not a fly fisherman. What if you nymph w/o a bobber what are you, a drift/gear fisherman. I know a lot of gear fisherman that drift flies and a slinkie for steelhead, or fish yarn flies for salmon. They way I look at it if you use a fly rod and are using a fly you are fly fishing.

Klickman

[sothereiwas]

not unless your slinky is made of PVC and is 30' long

[SCR Steelheader]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Because I can and it "pleases me".



A jig is not a fly and a bobber is not an indicator...
And fishing with a spinning rod is not a challenge.

Wow how does that last comment make begginging fisherman feel ( using a spinning rod ), they probably just through their rod away. All of the accusations and statements on this thread are rediculous.

[nookslayer]

I'm feeling like the squabiling here is redundant and silly. I have fished just about every technique there is and could really give a crap what anyone else thinks about one or another. I am 90% fly and do it because I enjoy it. Wapiteaser, I have no idea where you gathered your flagrantly false facts or why you decided to come to the FLY BOARD to pick a fight but you are completely off base. ALL of the guys here are stand up people who range from beginners to experts in their own right.

I fish indicators all the time and you can say what you want to. It won't phase me. The gear you fish with, the flies you throw, or your chosen method of presentation does not define who you are as an angler. The integrity of which you represent the sport does.

[Meskel]

CA maybe this was better left on your blog. You can do a search and see that every time this comes up we spiral down the same bowl. Or maybe you have and that is why you have broached the subject.

Personally I use balloons. Sometimes I even tie them into cute little shapes before I attach them to my line.

Also you are all concerned about what method of fishing it is called. When im doing it its called catching.

As for AndyK’s comment regarding the use of angling with spinning gear “And fishing with a spinning rod is not a challenge”. He was referring to himself.

I don’t fish for the food. If I did I would own a net.

Meskel
THE Che of Spey

[uhmw]

I have allways watched the end of my line for any slight sighn of tailing off. I use floating line and long leaders when fishing heavey flys and keep my eye on the line to see a fish hit. I do use the folding yellow ones on the willy for shad cause its pretty murky but if I can follow the line I prefer no hinderance to the cast from the indicator especially on the draw part of the cast.

[Herringaide]

What difference does it make if the indicator has a hook or not. If you catch a fish on a dropper fly attached to a large attractor fly (doubling as an indicator), would he still think your not fly fishing?

[BigSteelyHead123]

This thread is kinda like that song that never ends... I think it's called "The Song That Never Ends.."