Home land security bill what a crock!!

[fishbane]

Well our republican leadership wasted no time in taking care of there posketbokks on this one did they.

1. The controversial provisions, which include liability protections for pharmaceutical manufacturers and companies that develop anti-terrorism technologies, had been inserted into the legislation by House Republicans and approved by the House last week.

This means if your child or grand child gets a vaccine shot and they die or get autism like one drug under suit now the company is no longer liabil. This means equipment also. like say the osprey the companies and goverment are no longer liabill for deaths.

Also These companies and contractors no longer have to be American based companies paying taxes they can be off shore based companies.

So now the rich ceo's get there way and we have even less tax money coming in. With less money coming down to us for schools and such.

So now if gw gets elected to a second term ( god forbid) he can rasie our taxes while he and tricky dick laugh to the bank with their buddies.

Wheres the accountability?

No matter what side is in control the citizens (tax payers) take it in the @$$. The R's are blocking an extention on unemployment but I still can't hold my nose tight enough to vote for a D.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Kruschev said "We will bury you". I think we are finding out just what he meant. We have open boarders so we support any Yaehoo that walks in, swims in, boats in, or flys in to this country. Supposedly in the name of persecution.

Most have nothing to offer but a smile and a hand turned palms up with a note that says "GIMME GIMME". I guess we will never learn.

Homeland security was an unnecessary step for sure. I say this as a staunch Republican. Closing the boarders to immagration would stiffle the influx of terrorists and non-contributors to our society. Far cheaper to increase Boarder guards and airport security than to install this boondaggle. Sorry GW'b, no support from me on this hairbrained idea.

I am sorry if I offended my fellow republicans on this board. I have agreed with a democrate and I feel so unclean.

Thanks for sharing the same feeling about this that I do fishbane. Scary is'nt it? :smile:

[Fishfull Thinking]

Com'on you guys! Give GW a break! At least he is doing something. You may not agree with him but he has to do what he thinks is right. Frankly, I would rather have someone who is decisive in office as opposed to have "the" fence stuck up their butt. BTW, closing the borders to imigrants would be a bit tough since over 250 million enter each year. The United States is THE world economic leader. We are the world economic leader because we ARE the global economy. That is the basis of our lively hood and prosperity...period. We (you) drive the global economy and some folks don't like it. If you closed the borders you might as well write-in the Al Queda party on the next ballots. Sometimes we really have to look beyond the WIIFM (what's in it for me) point of view.

[fishbane]

Well I'll be,
Thanks Guys. by the way I was a republican for years. In this case I am more upset with the Demos and independents for not putting up a fight at least.
Things are just getting too out of hand. We all need to start demanding accountability from our politicians on taxes especially. the corparations and upper 10% should be paying higher taxes. Look at the deq they can't even enforce keeping our rivers clean anymore.They need more man power and MONEY http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie....2503a44f.html
Enough of my ramblings

[CATCH AND EAT]

Sorry Fishful Thinking, can't agree with your pyscoanalysis of terroristed on the ballot. Mearly pointing out that we allow 3 million of these folks in each year that do not have skills or trades that benefit OUR economy.

They go straight to the court house from the plain with there hands out. $500 per head is what they are given by the local government. Then they proceed to get 0 interest loans from the federal government under the "hardship" clause to start a business or buy a home.

Then we provide interpreters for any transaction, schooling, legal service, or social service you can think of. Me no understand english. Boy this is tiresome. I see it everyday and it is wearing on me a little.

Yes, this affects all of us from the world ecomony right down to the municipal economies. Maybe, closing boarders is extremist....but certainly limiting access for immagration is in order. Moreover, limiting visas (amount of time spent here) would be something to look at.

GW is a good man. I voted for him and I am not sorry (yet). But I think this homeland security thing is bogus and I think that blowing up Iraq is still not a proven necessity. If we do go into Iraq then we need to do the job right this time. Sadam must go. But, will it turn into another Afganistan where we missed Bin Ladin? Most likely. Will it really change anything in the middle east. Nope, just make more folks hate the USA.

[The Fishing Geek]

This is a long read, but I promise you that it will be worth it.

Before we get all cozy-lovey with the Democrats let's remember that this passed the Senate with a vote of 90-9, with a gentleman from Alaska not present to vote. Therefore, there were a bunch of Democrats who voted for this thing as well. Both of Oregon's Senators voted for it, FYI.

Regarding the whole vaccinations issue that was tacked on to the Homeland Security Bill. There is this little Act called the Public Health Service Act, which, among other things, outlines when a person can sue a vaccine manufacturer for damages due to vaccine-related injury or death. In this Act there are a few definitions for legal reasons. Well, check this out:

The Homeland Security Act wants to take this existing definition:

5) The term ''vaccine-related injury or death'' means an illness, injury, condition, or death associated with one or more of the vaccines set forth in the Vaccine Injury Table, except that the term does not include an illness, injury, condition, or death associated with an adulterant or contaminant intentionally added to such a vaccine.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">...and add...

For purposes of the preceding sentence, an adulterant or contaminant shall not include any component or ingredient listed in a vaccine's product license application or product label.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">So, in essence, by their definition, a vaccine-related injury or death cannot be caused by any ingredient listed on the label of the vaccine. Nice, huh?

Wait, it gets better. Check out this effective date statement:

The amendments made by sections 1714, 1715, and 1716 shall apply to all actions or proceedings pending on or after the date of enactment of this Act, unless a court of competent jurisdiction has entered judgment (regardless of whether the time for appeal has expired) in such action or proceeding disposing of the entire action or proceeding.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I'm not all that bright, but I read that as saying "If you currently have a claim pending against a pharmaceutical company regarding a vaccine-related injury or death that has anything to do with the ingredients listed on the vaccine label, it is hereby voided." Maybe someone with a better head on their shoulders can say if I'm right or wrong on that.

Now, someone may look at this bit of legislation and ask themselves "Why would something like this get linked up to a Homeland Security bill?" Good question, and on the surface it looks completely unrelated.

It's not.

This may get a bit wordy, but stick with me here as it will all fit together nicely at the end. In 1970 the rate of children showing symptoms of autism was roughly 1 in 2000. By 1999 that number had raised to 1 in 250 (the rate tripled in the 90's alone). Certainly, a sharp rise. During that time a product called Thimerosal was commonly used as a preservative in vaccines. As it turns out Thimerosal contains dangerously high levels of mercury, and with the long list of vaccinations that children get that mercury builds to very high levels in their bodies. An unrelated FDA report in 1997 regarding federal guidelines on mercury toxicity uncovered evidence that backs this claim up. Quoting from a recent New York Times Magazine article entitled The Not-So-Crackpot Autism Theory:

The F.D.A. team's conclusions were frightening. Vaccines added [from 1995 – 1999] had tripled the dose of mercury that infants got in their first few months of life. As many as 30 million American children may have been exposed to mercury in excess of Environmental Protection Agency guidelines -- levels of mercury that, in theory, could have killed enough brain cells to scramble thinking or hex behavior.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">When this information was released, pharmaceutical companies quit adding the preservative to their vaccines after the FDA "recommended" that they stop using it; however, many doctors continued to use the Thimerosal-laced vaccines until supplies ran out.

Okay, here comes the tie-in. One of the former producers of Thimerosal is pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly, and they have had numerous autism-related lawsuits filed against them in the last couple of years. When Eli Lilly executives were asked their thoughts regarding the vaccination additions to the Homeland Security Act they responded that they were "pleased with the amendment but [had] no idea how it wound up being attached to the homeland security bill". Of course, the passing of said bill certainly has nothing to do with their expendature of $1.6 million on congressional candidates prior to November 5th. But that's a good question. HOW did it get attached? Maybe it had something to do with the appointment of Sydney Taurel, Chairman, President, and CEO of Eli Lilly, to President Bush's Homeland Security Advisory Council in June of 2002.

If that's not interesting enough for you, then ponder the fact that George Bush Sr. was made a director on Eli Lilly's board in 1977, a position that was offered to him by Dan Quayle's father, who at that time owned a controlling interest in the company. Now you know how J. Danforth Quayle got onto the Bush Sr. ticket.

Thanks for wading through the above sea of text. I apologize that I was not able to get it done in a short and sweet manner, but I also felt it important to lay out all the material that I did so that you understand what we're dealing with here.

[Straydog]

I am with Fishbane, this homeland security thing is out of hand. GW just grew Gov. by over a hundred thousand jobs, in the same week he told us of the need to privatize gov. jobs...... go figger.

On the subject of immigration, my question
is, what are we going to do with the Statue of Liberty? :shocked:

If immigration is the problem, we better all head back to the 'homeland' lest we be labled hypocrits!! I have always wanted to go to Ireland, maybe this is my reason to do so! I bet the native Americans will be glad to see us go, too.

Man, what a complex can of worms we find ourselves in..... :whazzup:

BTW, I too voted for GW and still feel we are better off than had Gore won but not sure how much better! :whazzup: :whazzup:

[fishbane]

Gw is not what I would call a good man especially for our country.He was not elected. He and his brother rigged the election. 95, 000 legal voters turned away do to there little database rigging. How would you feel if you goit a letter saying you were a convicted fellon and no longer allowed to vote. even though you had never been convicted of ANY crime?

When he and tricky dick are done we will be a bankrupt country. he and dick and there ceo friends will laughing all the way to there tax free bank.

As many of you have pointed out we need to take care of our own. Not wage an oil war. thats all this really is. by the way tricky dicks company haliburton has been doing business for years with iraq rebuilding thier oil structure and such. what does that bring to mind well lets see how about when the times right we will just move in and take there oil and we have my oil infrastruture already in place.

[Born to Fish]

Hey Fishing Geek - thanks for the great narrative regarding all the hanky-panky in phamacology. Sounds like a John Grisham novel come true. Really scary stuff!

A friend recently sent me a news article that discussed the implications of the Home Security bill in terms of domestic oversight [i.e., spying on every aspect of John/Joan Q. Public's private lives....including open chat boards such as these]. Don't know how much truth there was to the article but it sounded like an Orwellian "Big Brother" scenario. Wish I had saved it to share in this thread.

Just makes me sick. I'm ashamed to say [as a Nam Vet] that I didn't vote in the last Presidential election. I'm not a party-person, try to stick with what the candidate stands for and offers. Unfortunately this was the first time in my adult life that I couldn't vote for either candidate! As a result I guess I compromised my right somewhat to complain, but in my own humble opinion, they both stunk! But whats going on is becoming scarier by the moment!

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by Born to Fish:
Hey Fishing Geek - thanks for the great narrative regarding all the hanky-panky in phamacology. Sounds like a John Grisham novel come true. Really scary stuff!

A friend recently sent me a news article that discussed the implications of the Home Security bill in terms of domestic oversight [i.e., spying on every aspect of John/Joan Q. Public's private lives....including open chat boards such as these]. Don't know how much truth there was to the article but it sounded like an Orwellian "Big Brother" scenario. Wish I had saved it to share in this thread.

Just makes me sick. I'm ashamed to say [as a Nam Vet] that I didn't vote in the last Presidential election. I'm not a party-person, try to stick with what the candidate stands for and offers. Unfortunately this was the first time in my adult life that I couldn't vote for either candidate! As a result I guess I compromised my right somewhat to complain, but in my own humble opinion, they both stunk! But whats going on is becoming scarier by the moment!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I was wondering if anyone was going to read that huge grey cloud I posted.

And just a reminder that there was more than two candidates that ran in 2000. Even though the others didn't stand a chance of winning, by voting for them it sends a message to the major-party candidates that they lost voters. Trust me, Gore looked at those Nader numbers and wondered where he went wrong. That probably ate at his insides for months.

[FallRiverGuy]

Oh, I read your grey cloud. I am still as H*ll about the games these guys play with ordinary people's lives. Just glad my daughter was vaccinated pre 1995, but I still wonder. I also wonder if those in the know had their kids/grandkids vaccinated with vaccines containing Thimerosal? Big business makes me .

[The Fishing Geek]

Now remember, it's only between 1995 and 1999 that the numbers of vaccinations increased. That preservative was used for much longer than that.

No, I'd imagine that those "in the know" probably got waivers for "religious reasons". It's like that scene in Erin Brocavich where she told the attorneys on the other side that the water they were drinking was from their water source. I'd love to hit THEM with that crud (their kids, after all, didn't choose them as parents).

[CATCH AND EAT]

Whoops Fishbane, you just lost me there. Jeb rigged the election??? Come on brother, get over it. I suppose jeb ate all the chad too? The election is over, Al (b)ore lost, recount after recount.

GW was clearly up to the challenge of 911. He sucks as an economic mastermind. I think this homeland security thing is kneejerk at best. Still, I am glad he is president and not Gore. And I wish Gore would shut that Southern trap of his. He is a typical sore loser liberal. "I, I, I, can does it better ya'all". Give me a break.

Fishing geek, I found your comments interesting to think about. Still, they do not sway my opinion. Thanks for the thought provoking though. :smile:

[The Fishing Geek]

Sway your opinion about what, Catch and Eat? Bush put this guy on the Council because he's one of the Club, and that is why the part was added that keeps people from filing suit against pharmaceutical companies for injuries or death related to vaccines. That is blatant, and it's horribly corrupt.

This one can be laid in the lap of George Bush 100%, and is additional proof that he and his the rest of those bandits are there for the corporations and NOT for us.