So what would you do???

[TheRogue]

OK........we've had 4 special sessions. Number 5 is just around the corner. We know that the state is ANOTHER $450,000,000 in the hole, and we have another $150,000,000 tied up in a ballot measure that may or may not pass (probably will).

It's an election year...you want to get re-elected, and your big $$ campaign contributors say "no more taxes". However, you're in a very poor district where many of your constituents are supported by state aid and the Oregon Health Plan. And, of course, since you're in a poor district, your schools are in disrepair, and you have a teacher shortage because you can't pay them enough to work there.

To me, the state should be held accountable and responsible for three things in this order:

1. Adequately funding education (K-12, community colleges, state colleges)

2. Providing for the public's safety (state police, prosecutors, prisons, etc)

3. Providing for a well built and MAINTAINED transportation network.

Everything else is an "Also Ran" to these three things. I talk to people, and it seems that generally, most agree with my "line" of thinking.

Bottom line............pay for it now, or cut it. Quit dragging things out, making Enron-like accounting moves. Now's as good a time as any to fix the problem. I've got two kids, 2 & 5, and I don't want the agony that parents are going through today.

Any opinions??

Eliminate the top 15% of state employees. Less Crats=more work.

When I worked for ADOT I had 6 bosses and supervised two to four workers.

Less bosses allows more money to be directed to those doing the work and makes more efficient government.

[ 08-28-2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Straydog]

Man,

Been giving this one a lot of thought and it is darned tough question.

I do think the "if we can't afford it cut it" mentality makes sense knowing perhaps it will get peoples attention and they will realize we need a different approach to funding the services we need and expect.

I also agree with Keta in that there is room to cut a lot of fat in many angencies. At the risk of being labled a nit picker, I am blown away by the amount and quality of paper work that I get from my various volunteer and public involvment situations.

I have been involved in the BLM's RAMP (Rogue Area Management Plan) for over 5 years and I could probably feed my kids for a year on the dollars that have gone into actually bound books of studies and focus group results, etc. etc. Very repetitious and much more than really needed in my mind.

And this is just from one of the groups I am involved with.... when I add what goes into the Watershed Council paperwork, Fish Screening Task Force and School stuff, I gotta shake my head.

I will say this, the Feds. are much more wasteful, in my mind, than the state folks, not to say there is not a lot of room for improvement for both.

One thing to remember, we have created a "Crat" industry and if we rid the agencies of all of these folks, they are going to have to find work somewhere..

It wouldn't bother me to share the unemployment line with some dead weight crats :grin:

[TheRogue]

Absolutely correct....there was once upon a time, a huge nationwide effort at all levels of government and business to cut back middle level management. So what happened?? In a lot of cases, instead of bumping these people down, they created new "non-management" positions, so they have the same pay, often the same responsibilities, but a different job title!!

At the field level of nearly all government, city, county, state, federal, there is not enough manpower, and not enough money to get the job done. There are so many special interest laws, mandates, rules, etc., involved in every aspect of government work that many of these people in field don't even have time to work on what their job title says they're supposed to do!!

The new wilderness area (Cascade Siskiyou) "created" in the last gasps of the Clinton administration was designated without a single penny for management. Directions were given to buy up rights' of way and private land inside the boundary....but no money given to do so!!

The USFS is being told it has to cut timber..figure out how, NOW!! At the same time, this administration is also pushing for a budget CUT for the USFS.....even though it's going to cost a FORTUNE to do all the EA's legally required for any action on federal land, and then ANOTHER fortune to battle all the lawsuits that are going to come from the attempt to cut more timber.

Anyway, back to the state....

We're all set to give 2 huge tax breaks to a chip manufacturer and a windmill maker. We have the LOWEST business taxes (income, property, capital gains combined) west of the Mississippi. At the same time, we have one of the highest combined personal taxes in the country. It's time for a tax solution that takes the pressure off the consumer, and makes business pay it's fair share.

Many people pound their fists, and say that Intel, Nike, Boeing, etc., wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for all those tax breaks....and they'd be right!!!

But, ya gotta wonder, would we be quite so badly off if those companies hadn't brought in their thousands and thousands of people in the first place!!

kyle

Kyle,

[would we be quite so badly off if those companies hadn't brought in their thousands and thousands of people in the first place!!]

I agree. Oregon was much nicer in the late 50's and early 60's.

[Straydog]

I refer you to the person that was the strongest influence in making me register as a Republican, Tom McCall....... "come visit Oregon but don't stay!"

People laughed and made fun but he was right...we didnt (don't) have the jobs to support all of these people or the tax structure to harbor all the retirees and offer the services needed.

[hawgcatcher]

I agree that there needs to be some cuts, but who gets cut? Not the big, high paid, supervisors sitting at their desks. No it is usually the working stiffs that do the hard labor. So instead of saving money, the big shots get it in percentage increases. Figure how much a 3% cost of living is on a $150,000 a year salary versus that same figure on a $30,000 a year salary. The supervisors don't go out and repair things, the grunts do, so if you lay off the grunts, the work doesn't get done.

Same goes for schools. How many vice principals per school? How many district bosses? Who gets cut? The teachers do. Who suffers? The kids. They cut the janitors and higher from outside. Benefits might be saved but then the help that they get, wind up stealing thousands of dollars worth of computers and other things.

Cut the State Police. Who gets cut? Back to the poor patrol officers. Drive down highway six or highway 26 and there are no longer any officers patroling. Average speed is 70 plus and accidents increase.

I could go on and on, but I get madder and madder. The cuts are not where they should be. First big cut should be a governour that refuses to listen to anyone but himself. His is the only plan that is right instead of sitting down and working with our senate and representatives. If they won't play by his rules, then simply call another costly session.

He sure is not leaving a legacy of joy to the people of Oregon. :depressed: :depressed:

[TheRogue]

Hmmmmm, won't play by his rules???

What's the Republican plan for this mess?? Yup, you guessed it, more borrowing and bonds!! Let's just force the next biennium's budget deal with how to pay for all of it!!

Nope, I don't know the answer. But, as someone who is digging himself out of the "buy now pay later" hell hole, more and more borrowing and bonding is NOT the answer!! I would almost rather see the cuts.

kyle

[k9jeff]

I am for cutting.
Road maint/clean up?? put the inmates to work.

schools? shorten the school year by three weeks this year to save the money. Its incredible the money that can be saved by doing this. Im not in favor of it,, but it seems reasonable at this point.

Public Safety? Nope,, they have taken it in the shorts everytime, We have less osp troopers now than ever,,, there are not enough to go around as it is.

There are ways to save money, but it may threaten or cut a managers job, and they are the ones who make the decisions on where the cuts should happen, are they going to cut their job???i think not.

PERS: it has always been funded until recently. find out what happened and fix it. Screw the small guy if things are screwed up from by upper management is a poor way to do busn.

I could go on and on about waste in our fine state. its too bad it has gone this far. I do not think there is one ans. to the problem, but I think there are thousands of small changes that could be made to help correct the problem in the future.

my .02 cents

Jeff

[TheRogue]

Massive cuts = massive layoffs, which means more people in unemployment roles, and more people on the Oregon Health Plan.

What do many economists say is the best way out of a recession?? Yup, you guessed it, spend more. Ok, this really only works at the federal level, because they're the ones who can run a deficit budget, the state can't.

Just think, if the Bush tax cut had been invested in rebuilding the nation's infrastructure, we'd have high paying construction jobs out there everywhere, instead of the states figuring out how to support these out of work people