Kitzhaber Budget Announcement...

[Pete]

At 6:35 tonight (Wednesday), Governor Kitzhaber will announce his decisions on budget items and vetos ... this is important to both fisheries and schools, among other things. It would be worth your time to hear what he says in this announcement. It's expected to last only 5 minutes.

[poshie]

Is that a TV announcement??

[Pete]

It will be on the major stations and public radio.

[dampainter]

:shocked: politics....... ohhhh no, just something else to get my blood pressure boiling--- especially kitzhaber = moron. just my .02 cents worth

[AngleThis]

The hatcheries are toast....bet me.

[Wild Bill]

It's on KATU(2), KOIN(6), KGW(8), or you listen to it on the radio 91.5 FM.

Also on the internet at www.leg.state.or.us
This will be where I'll watch it god forbid if I turn off cartoons!

[ 08-07-2002, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]

[Lepper]

Originally posted by dampainter:
:shocked: politics....... ohhhh no, just something else to get my blood pressure boiling--- especially kitzhaber = moron. just my .02 cents worth

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Dont worry, your not alone..... and that is my .02 cents as well.......

[TheRogue]

Good for him!!!

Make the cuts, or come up with the money, it's pretty simple. No accounting manuevers, no short-changing the next budget cycle. There was NOT ONE legislator that said this was a "good" fix, just "politically acceptable".

Sad.

Unfortunately, they'll go after the ODFW budget first thing, guaranteed. Pretty sad, considering all the other pork that's in the budget.

My .02

[Lepper]

hey anyplace online you can read what they said? I checked out the above site and coulnd't find anything.......
thnx
dave

[SandySteel]

At least he has the cahones to say when a piece of legislation is bad and is willing to do something about it. It was more than the bigger morons in the republican held legislature were willing to do when they basically asked schools to put next year on a credit card.

You can read the story here Oregon Live coverage

As a teacher I am torn. I will hate to see the pain this causes in our schools but at the same time I want the funding to schools to be stable and adequate. Our kids deserve better than to be nickled and dimed to death. We elect the legislators to make the tough decisions but then they refuse to. Instead they ask us to make the decisions. This is what term limits gets us.

Notice that the hatcheries wasn't even mentioned? Why? Because in the long run it really doesn't matter compared to schools, fire, and police.

[SandySteel]

[ 08-07-2002, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: SandySteel ]

[John]

Kitzhaber=Moroon is rite on the money. And to the teacher that thinks big goverment and tax increases are the way to go I have a few suggestions for you. Try cutting the budget by getting rid of the olcc, sim and cam in the schools, the hundreds of unfilled positions in the goverment,which money is being allocated to other things. Maybe the proposed light rail from Tualatin to Wilsonville. Futhermore they could cut Dr.Johns plan to come into peoples homes and find out if they are fit to be parents. Also, why does it cost overtwo thousand dollars more per student in public schools then private? Also on the return for the money. Private schools with less money do alot more. Before you go out and start pushing taxes on me, why don't you get from behind the desk. Open your own business and try to make it unstead of your seven months out of the year job. A job where you make at fourty thousand a year don't have to pay for your own health care or pension, as all of us in the private sector with small businesses have too. I simply can not take people that don't pay their fair share or make a living from other peoples hard work telling them they are not already paying enough. I am more then willing to pay an extra twenty dollars for my fishing tags. If the money is used to keep hatcheries open, heck I would gladly pay a extra thirty dollars. I am not willing to give up my hard earned dollar to the local goverment that wastes money on B.S. programs and then says we don't have enough. Cut the Pork and there is more then enough money!

[BigBeanCounter]

Lesson One....what they (big fat a**ed politicos) say is NEVER what they really mean.

For them to call it like it really is means they'd have to get off the public gravy train!!

Heck, i wouldn't even stick a hook in them and use em for bait cause no self respecting fish would ever take THAT bait!

[Jerry Dove]

I had a call today, about 1pm from ODFW Director Lindsey Ball. He had heard a rumor that the hatcheries would be on the block again. This was before Dr. no made his speech. I said before that the battle was not won untill the big lady sang, and she sung tonight at 6.35. We need to keep the pressure on. We need to get the Leg. to agree to the fee increases on tags and lic. Jerry

[TheRogue]

Hey John, don't hold back, tell us what you really think!!!

EDIT

Let's go fishin~!~!

[ 08-08-2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[WheresMyBobber]

There is a big difference between local government $$ and state government $$, how those $$ are collected, and what those $$ are used for.

This discussion should pertain to how the state budget affects the ODFW, since that's fishing related. If not, please take your political views and misconceptions to the "Life in General" board.

[Straydog]

John,

Sounds to me like you could benefit by spending more time involved in our public schools, if you are naive enough to make the private-public school funding comparison such as you have.

I agree the CIM and CAM should go away and there are other programs mandated by the state that are costing us tons. Here-in lies the fallacy of the private/public cost debate.

Private schools can be cheaper simply by their nature: They are not required to provide bussing. They are not required to provide lunch and breakfast for the underfed. They are not required to accept any student and try to educate that student regardless of special needs such as mental and physical disabilities. They are not required to educate little Johnny that arrives at school having spend the night listening to mommy and some guy she met downtown do drugs and other fun things all night. They are not required to educate the little girl that hasn't had a bath in two weeks, isn't fed properly and dosen't know who her daddy is. They are not required to educate the kid that has no (zero, none) books at home and has had no preschool preperation what so ever. They are not required to send a bus out twenty some miles to pick up a single special ed. child and take them to a facility that can educate them.

So, puullleeeaaassssseee, debate and discuss the needs and costs of public education all you want, but do not try to campare the costs of apples and oranges when it comes to eductating ALL of our state's future, not just those able to go to private school.

I am the parent of a third grader to be and a sophomore in college and have been heavily involved in our schools for about 17 years as a parent, booster club officer, site council member, district budget committee volunteer and two principal hiring committees. If there is anything I have more passion about than fish, it would be the education of our kids.

I am going to have to watch my daughter's education suffer in the short term because of the Governor's veto's but darn it, I admire him having the guts to do it.

It is way past time to get serious about paying for public education in this state and if the "Pig Flying" Atkinson's running the Republican Party don't want to accept that, we need to vote them out asap!

And BTW, I am also a lifelong Republican from the McCall era..... the problem is, the party has changed so much from what it was when I was young, I am seriously considering bailing soon.

Sorry for the long rant but this subject is near and dear to my heart.

[ 08-08-2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[blackdog]

Way to go John! I think that you are right on. It's amazing to me that everyone wants more funding for our poor schools, when they are already spending more per student than private schools are, which, could be argued, provide a better education. So, in a sense, I guess I agree with last night decision. However, just like usual there was no real solution presented other than new taxes. Find a way to make it work by managing the state, as I believe that is his job. Private businesses can't just raise prices everytime they have a budget shortfall and expect customers to pay the new prices. Our government shouldn't work that way either. Also, it's amazing to me that regardless of how little money they claim to have available in the budget, Kitzhaber has no problem calling a fourth special session, that we as taxpayers pay for. That's right! Working on these issues must be above and beyond the normal call of duty because all our legislators are getting paid extra, at our expense, every time there's a special session. Amazing.

[Get Bent]

I look forward to seeing many of these folks discussing the current budget shortfall and expounding their wealth of knowledge about the teaching profession volunteering their time this fall in their local school at the very least and, if we are most fortunate, with their names on the ballot for public office by next year.

It would be a shame to have such insightful people sequestered to a mere fishing forum.

[EDIT] If I had gone to private school I surely would have had better sentence structure and proofreading skills.

[ 08-08-2002, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Pete ]

[WheresMyBobber]

Get Bent

If you're referring to me, I'm not a teacher. But it's obvious to me that the intent of your post is to create bad feelings and irritate the situation. ***********

[ 08-08-2002, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Pete ]

[Pete]

This is a volatile, emotional topic. Let's not get personal with it, K?

[Get Bent]

WheresMyBobber:

I wasn't targeting you at all. Just pointing out as has been done numerous times on different topics that it is easier to sit on the sidelines and criticize the jobs of others than it is to get into the middle of it and make a difference. My wife and I put in a lot of volunteer time last year at my son's school and look forward to doing more of the same this year. It's amazing what you learn from being there yourself.

[Straydog]

Exactly, Get Bent, exactly.

I would be interested to know when the last time many of these people were in a public school and how much time the spent actually educating themselves about what goes on and the challenges today's societal character presents to educators.

[Spot]

In my humble opinion Kitzhaber made the right decision. Rather than following the lead of individuals who care more about their future re-election campains than they do about fixing problems, he's shown the integrity and common sense to reject the quick fix in the interest of fixing the root cause of inadequate school funding.

Ask yourself this: Would you buy your groceries for a year with your credit cards?

[TheRogue]

Exactly my thinking, Spot!!!

[Jsail]

I don't usally enter in to these discussions on this board but it's time.
I live close to Beaverton High. I can see the school from my kitchen window.
Over the past few years I've been watching as they make improvements to the exterior. I have no way of telling what is going on inside the building, but here are a few of the exmples of how your money is being speent on the exterior over the the past 3 years.
1) Three years ago they put up new lights on the poles over the football field.
2) Two years ago (the year after) they took down the new lights and put up new poles. They then put up a different set of new lights on the new poles because the old ones (@ a year old) would not mount to the new poles. Who knows what happened to the old lights. At the same time this was being done they replaced all the bleachers including a elavator on the home team side to get a camera up to the anouncers booth. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]
They finished off the whole job by removing and replacing all of the storm fence around the school and fields, including the baseball field in front of the school. The new storm fence and poles were painted black.
3)This year they have the whole parking area in the front demolished and are getting additional parking and I think a new cafeteria. They are also replacing the new storm fence around the baseball field with a nice wrought iron fence to match the one around the new parking lot near the auto shop.
So ask yourself; is your money being spent toward education? :shocked: Does a $30 per foot fence have a presidence over the $8 a foot fence that was put up last year?
I could go on ....... but you should get the idea.
Please start asking questions about where your dollars are going and then follow up on it and see if what they say is what is happening. :whazzup:

[ 08-08-2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Jsail ]

[24 on/ 48 off]

Weren't those improvements paid for by a local-option levy within the last few years?

I seem to recall that those types of improvements were part of the local tax increases that the voters approved.

--spud-- :smile:

[ 08-08-2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: 24 on/ 48 off ]

[Jsail]

24 on/ 48 off
Did you vote to pay for new lights and a new fence and then to have them replaced a year later with something else that was considerably more expensive?
I have no problem with general capital improvemnts as they are needed. It is the amount ofwaste in the way they are going about it.
How about the house that they had demolished on Erickson. I tried to buy it and have it moved. Their response ........ "Sorry we are not in the real estate business".
All this at just one school I can see through the kitchen window.

[24 on/ 48 off]

So...

Borrowing against the future is not bad either? On the KGW 5 PM newscast, several legislators said (close as I can quote) "What we need to do is override the vetoes and then let the next legislature and Govenor deal with this problem.

Do they REALLY think that our economoy is going to improve so much next year that we can fill a (let me show the zeroes here) $1,000,000,000 defecit?

Why not solve the problem now? We elected (hopefully) bright people to represent us in the Oregon government. Let them show us how bright they are.

Lastly, I believe that much of the work done on the BHS athletic fields is underwritten by sponsors (Coke, etc..)

--spud-- :smile:

[Jsail]

this is why I don't comment on these issues much...... are we talking issues or symptoms?
I agree with the Governor on his veto; I don't agree on how and how much they are spending.
1)Why not solve the problem now? We elected (hopefully) bright people to represent us in the Oregon government. Let them show us how bright they are.
Is your way of solving the problem to raise taxes and support irresponsible spending? Or is your way to just trust in hopefully bright people that were elected?
The Governor has got people looking at all kinds of symptoms but not the root of the issues. I would really like to see some outside experts go over the budget for the schools and see why cost per student is climbing so much. If it's over crowding then lets take a look at adding some cost to building permits or something to help the infrastructure keep up.
On the other hand maybe those people that were elected weren't as bright as the literature said they were.
Don't get me wrong, I am 110% behind top quality education. I am just as adamant about operating and spending responsibly!
I did not say anything about the new football field. My understanding is that was completely funded by a private party

[Clackman]

i have one problem with this whole thing and that is:here and everywere i have hear this discusion they talk about a buget shortfall i can not understand this label in the least. when you have 7% more revenew then you did the bi-anum before you can only have a spending problem not a buget shortfall!!!!! someone is stealing are hard earned dollars and it looks like their in salem.for a two year buget to grow 20% in a rececion with almost no inflation sould be criminal.

[TheRogue]

Yes, technically, it is not a reduction, because the total budget continues to go up.

However, you need to factor in the growing prison population, and the growing school enrollment, as well as the monster that is PERS. We decided on "get tough" schemes like Measure 11 and building more prisons. Well, ya got to pay for that, and it's a hell of a lot more expensive to incarcerate a criminal than it is to educate a student.

I read in the Oregonian recently that 70-75% of all inmates do NOT EVEN HAVE a high-school diploma!!! In some ways, that tells me that regardless of the cost, we have to fully fund the schools, to get class sizes down, to be able to address the needs of "problem children" at an age where it might do some good.

$60,000 per year per prisoner VS $7,000 per year per student????

I did graduate from high school, I think I can work that math.

Jsail......As for school campus improvements, etc., these are almost never general fund $$$. Yep, there's lots of stupid things that go on here. But did you bother to go and find out the reasoning behind it?? Did you check and see if there was something the contractor screwed up, and he was paying to fix/replace?? Or some new rule/law that came into effect concerning lighting or fencing?? Somehow I doubt there was a malicious intent to go out and spend your tax money on frivolity.

Raise the cigarette tax another $2. That will get a bunch of the welfare crowd off of them....and the studies indicate that upto 60% of Oregon Health Plan money go to deal with things that can be linked at least indirectly to smoking. Maybe we can get the OHP monster stopped before it becomes as big a problem as PERS, and sucks the other half of the budget dry.

Good for Mr. Kitzhaber, he's stuck to his word the whole time, "Pay as you go". If the legislature doesn't like what he did, then make targeted cuts in other areas to come up with the money.

I've always felt that state government should supply and fully fund:

Schools
Roads
Police and Fire

Everything else is extra, and should be treated as such. I sincerely hope that the next legislature and governor can sit down and honestly re-work the entire government.

Yeah, right.

My 0.03

kyle

[Straydog]

Jsail,

I appreciate your concern and also at times shake my head at the "priorities" I see taking place.

However, through my years of being involved I have learned that not all is what it appears.

While questioning where the money is going, one must also question where it came from and for what purposes.

If money came from a capital improvment bond, then capital improvement is what it must be used for.

Further, as Rogue pointed out, maybe the work was not done right in the first place and the contractor had to replace the lights. Did you bother to find out or just assume, like most everyone else, that the money was from the general school operating fund and was being misused?

Having said that, again, please know that I know there are indeed funds used where they may not really be needed. You could also find cases of teachers not earning their pay, administrators spending too much or other misuse of funds. However, in the big picture, finding and stopping every one of these instances in our state would not fill the void we are looking at.

Then there is the question of ever rising costs. Look at PER's, look at the cost of health insurance, look at the cost of fuel, electricity and everything else that flucuates in your budget just as it does the schools.

Yea, I bet the view from your kitchen window can be darned frustrating. I wonder what it would look like if you knew why and how the picture is being painted???

Also, someone said something about us electing sharp people that can figure this out in the Legislature.

Well, they have had three stabs at it and still haven't gotten to a solution; I guess now the question becomes "when???"

[ 08-09-2002, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Jsail]

Further, as Rogue pointed out, maybe the work was not done right in the first place and the contractor had to replace the lights. Did you bother to find out or just assume, like most everyone else, that the money was from the general school operating fund and was being misused?

As a matter of fact I did bother to ask.