5 minutes 40 seconds of freespool

[alantani]

you guys are among the best, so someone here has to be able to peg this one. what is this, and what did i do to make this spool spin for 5 minutes and 40 seconds? just so you know i was not cheating, the drag is set to 20 pounds at strike. it is ready to fish, just as it sits. i'll be back tomorrow to see what kind of answers we get. alan

[tomictime]

i dunno..
but it is one heck of a book title....
you can have it !

[jcft2007]

Alan,

Question:
How did you "start" the spool to make it spin? Crank the handle once or maybe spin it as quick as possible?

Dang, 5:40, that's GOOD!!

Joel

[woodboy]

My guess is that it's a Shimano tld20II or maybe a tld30II, with a Tiburon topless frame and a precision spool and bearing kit. It also looks like a t-bar lite handle has been added. I would also guess that an upgrade has been made to drag plates but my x-ray vision isn't working tonight so I can't see inside. I can't wait to find out what made that reel free spool so long.
On second look it doesn’t look like a t-bar lite, maybe custom made anodized aluminum handle?

[Poindexter]

I'm guessing you started the spin with a short piece of line that was not connected to the line on the reel, gave it a very good pull, and the ball bearings did the rest . . .

[CR dog]

Your battery on the drill ran out at 5min and 40sec?

[CR dog]

Shimano TLD
Upgraded SS bearing kit, ABEC 5?
Looks as if a new upgraded alum spool.
Oversize drag plate.
Upgraded alum frame.
Upgraded clamp kit.

With all that, would it just be cheaper to buy the Accurate in the first place?

[pijon]

New lube...

[Bait O' Eggs]

I dont know what you did, but I am sure it involved some super lube of some sort.

But please answer another question for me, every post you make an effort to talk about freespool. You tell us how long it will freespool like its a badge of honor of some sort. Just why is more freespool so important? The last couple of years for my tuna trolling reels I have gone to fully packing all my bearings in grease, no more grease on the outer ones and oil on the inner ones as you always show. Yes, I lose a lot of freespool, but dont see where it affects my fishing at all Spool is still plenty free enough when disengaged for the line to pay out easily. I feel very confident I wont lose a bearing mid season when I know they are all packed with grease. I dont notice the reel working any worse, matter of fact I get less backlashes from the guys who dont have a trained thumb with a spool that doesnt spin wildly. With some of the crew I take fishing, you would think they think, untangling a backlash 1/2 of the day is normal fishing.

Now if your talking a casting reel, then I want a lot of freespool for casting. But all the big reels I see you tearing apart in your pics, a guy is going to be lucky to cast one of those more than a rod length or three, no matter how much freespool you have. (Do people really cast a 4 OT or larger reel very often, and expect to get it very far?)

Is there something I am missing? Educate me please

[Weather or Knot]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

you would think they think, untangling a backlash 1/2 of the day is normal fishing.

Thats funny. Im curious to know the answers as well.

Brandon

[CATCH AND EAT]

Then of course you still commute to work on your "Big Wheel" too.

Actually it think it is all about smooth operation, power and not having a drag lock up during a battle. Being ready for that big one type deal. Alan could also ask you why you build your own tuna gear. Experimentation to make something better is something we all do. Sometimes "why" is not important. If it appears to be a better mouse trap then maybe it is.

I was forturnate enough to have someone go through all my reels and apply Alan's teachings and guidance. I look forward to applying the reels and lessons of this Jedi reel guy. compared to so of the guys on this board, including Alan I still fish with stone knives and wooden spoons and I get just as much joy out of this equipment as I would a huge selection of gucci gear.

Thanks Alan for your useful posts. Maybe you can help Roy get his Big Wheel tuned up and freespinning for 5:40.

[Paddler]

There are some people who put a lot of emphasis on freespool. But, freespool is just that, a measure of how long the spool will rotate due to it's own inertia. It doesn't matter much for trolling reels, and may not be all that important for casting reels either, depending on the weight of lure you're throwing. Also, an aluminum spool will give more freespool than a plastic one, given the same initial RPM and friction losses (bearings, in this case), but won't cast light baits as well, purely because it requires more force to get it spinning.

For my reels, I don't wipe the extra grease off the drag washers, which makes freespool plummet. So what? I like having the extra grease around, as it certainly won't hurt, and may even help keep the drags smooth. My lures play out just fine.

I don't know what components Alan used here, but this is an example of how to maximize freespool. High quality aluminum spool, filled with line, light lube (Corrosion X?) on high quality bearings, held in excellent alignment by a high quality frame, with all excess drag grease removed prior to reassembly. What does it mean under field conditions? That's maybe a bit unclear.

[mitch]

You hooked your neighbors dog?

[Elkiller]

Second vote for TLD 20. Can't imagine how you got the free spool, but it should cast a live bait a mile like that. I know I want mine to do that!

[jet]

Originally Posted by mitch

You hooked your neighbors dog?

That is Funny! It might be the correct answer??

[Fishing PaPa]

Looks to me like it says Magnum 30W right on the real.
Lets hear the story Alan.

[boelkhtr]

he must of used some slick 50, or perhaps magnet placement???

as usual this is going to be good. Cant wait to read how that is accomplished.

[Herring Problem]

It's a black reel. and you hooked a 500lb tuna in Mexico.

[Capt.P-Bar]

Painted an AVET BLACK! No factory Tld would do that unless you tied a cat to it and then tossed it to hungry dog, the cat lived 5 mins and 40 secs? J/J , there must be Kyrptonite somewhere, my x-ray powers arent working. We must all be bored!

[Chromaflage]

Hollowed it out and stuck a hamster in the spool.

[Paddler]

Magnets would decrease freespool.

Alan, I can't make out the name, but it looks like Magnum 30V or 30T. We're waiting!!

A few minutes later:

Just googled Tiburon. That's the frame, alright. They make them for Sqidders, too. Don't know about the spool. The TLD comes with an aluminum spool, but it the pictures it's black anodized. I think woodboy is right about bearings, handle, etc.

Wonder how it compares to the SLD30's? I know Alan dislikes them, but I love mine.

[Reel Obsession]

TLD 20. Wound a line aound the spool and gave it a hard yank after a complete rebuild with all excess lube removed. Oh yeah, tested on the Space Station.....

[alantani]

Originally Posted by jcft2007

Alan, Question: How did you "start" the spool to make it spin? Crank the handle once or maybe spin it as quick as possible? Dang, 5:40, that's GOOD!! Joel

here's a hint. i had a beer in one hand.......

[little doc]

You were using one of those funny 'beer goggles' clocks that show different times to different folks!

Scott.

[pijon]

"here's a hint. i had a beer in one hand....... "

Well that solves it. people drinking beer have an answer to every problem in the world.

[luv_2_fish]

Long time free spooling is often asscociate with extreme long distance casting (700'+ and even 900'+). The extreme long distance casters fine tuning their reels religiously with modification to frame, bearings, oils, line diameter, spool, line spooling evenly, spool balancing, knobby magging control, and the list goes on and on.

I am very sure Alan is well versed in fanatically fine tuning reels. When can we expect to see your name close to Tommy Farmer?

The reel looks like Penn made? Some of the Penn reels are designed for the European market for long distance fishing and casting.

[Dylan]

nice work! I just serviced a halibut reel and mananged to get 10 seconds. i didn't pull the bearings and clean them, just added corrosion X.

1 blueprint the reel -- so custom spacers if needed.
2 open and thoroughly clean spool bearings
3 lube them with some pixie dust or fairy blood.
4 install some soft lead weights around the perimeter of the spool??

[boelkhtr]

magnets attract i know, reverse them and what do they do, now aline them just right start the movement and they can be used to increase the free spool,

I have a beer in each hand

[nunyet]

3 pound lead dropped slowly to the bottom in 800 feet of water .... beer in one hand thumb on reel spool..

nunyet

[Tiny]

Beer induced dyslexia?

you really meant to write

0 minutes and 54 seconds

[Fishing PaPa]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Beer induced dyslexia?

you really meant to write

0 minutes and 54 seconds

Now that there was funny

[HogJaws]

Super tuned by Merkle

[Twitchs_Tackle]

Go on Youtube, and do some searches...crazy long free spools!!!

[Net fun]

Fishing, forgot to put in gear with the clicker, washing down a beer while getting spooled with a fish on. Must have looked at your watch...

[Ducks4jimm]

Did you hit a sanded-in piece of commercial crabbing gear?

[alantani]

it's that new lube that i'm using......

so here's what i did with the reel. the frame is a topless tiburon frame. the handle is a 6/0 kolekar. the pressure plate bearing and right side plate bearing were opened up, packed with grease, reshielded and reinstalled, the belleville stack was switched out from "()()" to "((())" to increase the drag range and the original drag pressure plate was shimmed. i do this to all of the tld 20 and 30 two speeds. the handle up grade is great and the increased drag range is usually something you can't take full advantage of anyway, but none of these things affect freespool time. the upgrade took me 1 hour, start to finish.

to get these extreme freespool times, i cleaned out the spool bearings with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lubed them with xtreme reel +. normally i would then "blue print" the reel by installing a bearing sleeve cut from brass tubing. instead in found a washer from daiwa (part #F94-7102) and used it to shim the spool. i'll have to redo the tutorial.

the take home message is this.... the aftermarket frame is optional. if you're going to fish this reel with 60# mono and a topshot of 18#'s (30%), then it is not needed. personally, i really like the aftermarket frames and there is virtually no change in weight. the $20 aftermarket pressure plate is also not needed. shimming it with a $1 metal washer or 3 layers of masking tape keep it trued up. changing the belleville stack from "()()" to "((())" will increase the drag range to at least 24#'s at strike for an additional 30 cents. and last are the spool bearings. if you clean them out and lube with this new teflon lube, you don't need fancy ceramic bearings. that's right, regular, old fashioned abec 5 stainless steel bearings did this.

regarding this specific reel, it was upgraded with the frame and handle because that's just what the owner wanted. hey, it's a fishing reel! it doesn't always have to make sense!

[alantani]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

I dont know what you did, but I am sure it involved some super lube of some sort. But please answer another question for me, every post you make an effort to talk about freespool. Is there something I am missing? Educate me please

no, you're not missing anything. this only matters when you're chasing large tuna from a stationary platform and you're trying to flyline a bait. 120 seconds of freespool had been the "holy grail" of the san diego long range fishermen. we just blew right past that!!!!!!!!! some guys can take a tld 30 two speed, pin on a sardine, and cast 25 yards. the captain of the spirit of adventure can do just that. we call him "captain show off" and it is these longer casts that get him bit more consistently than anyone else. it is just as important when fishing a "50 class" or 80 class" reel against cow yellowfin. the ability to flyline a bait can mean the difference between hooking up and just soaking a bait all day.

and then there are times when i do something just because i can!

[Paddler]

So, Alan, is that the stock spool?

[alantani]

yup, everything is stock except for the handle and the frame. neither one of those affect freespool. i am raising the bar! alan

[onaga]

I had the Extreme Lube plus figured out from your site. Some interesting work on some other reels with that stuff. Any idea how long it will stay on the bearings? Will it keep the bearings from corroding? Do we care as long as we can wear/wash/repeat?

[alantani]

Originally Posted by onaga

I had the Extreme Lube plus figured out from your site. Some interesting work on some other reels with that stuff. Any idea how long it will stay on the bearings? Will it keep the bearings from corroding? Do we care as long as we can wear/wash/repeat?

that is the million dollar question. i know two things. i know that this dry teflon lube makes spools spin forever. i also know that my old standard, corrosion x, will fail over time. i am told by the manufacturer that the corrosion resistance is excellent. if he is even half correct about the corrosion resistance, then i can couple that with the spin properties that are 10 times better. the benefits would outweigh the risks.

and yes, i am taking a risk. i have only worked with it for the last 2 months and personally do not know how well this new lube will hold up. if it last a year, then it will match corrosion x. i have serviced about 200 reels in the last two months and have used this lube in all the bearings. the results are dramatic. however, if i start hearing about bearing failures, then i will have to put out 10 times the effort to DEmote this product as i have been doing now to PROmote it. oh, and what's the risk? figure two bearings per reel at $10 each, 100 reels a month for one year is $24,000. if everyone of these bearings failed on the first fishing trip, then, yes, i will make good on that loss. i'm not worried, though. these guys have been around for at least a couple of years. i've only seen one complaint. i tried to get in touch but never heard from him.



wouldn't it be funny as hell if this really was the ticket? alan

[woodboy]

This is good info, thanks. Does anyone know where you can get extreme reel plus locally. I've been thinking about spiffing up my baja spacial this year and if this is all it needs to make it free spool forever then i'm down for it.

[jcft2007]

Alan,
In response to this:

"some guys can take a tld 30 two speed, pin on a sardine, and cast 25 yards. the captain of the spirit of adventure can do just that. we call him "captain show off" and it is these longer casts that get him bit more consistently than anyone else."

You didn't mention that Mike Keating does this "underhanded". What an awesome sight to watch him fish!!

Thanks and tight lines!!
Joel

[Silver Eagle]

I'm Also interested in getting it LOCALLY where is there an outlet.....Ray

[alantani]

Originally Posted by woodboy

This is good info, thanks. Does anyone know where you can get extreme reel plus locally. I've been thinking about spiffing up my baja spacial this year and if this is all it needs to make it free spool forever then i'm down for it.

take a look.....

http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/fi...a-special.html

[shorthair]

Originally Posted by pijon

"here's a hint. i had a beer in one hand....... "

Well that solves it. people drinking beer have an answer to every problem in the world.

Including the unasked ones.

[Rusty Pipe]

I know its not a saltwater Q, but if I cleaned the grease out of my Curado 201 for steelheading and used this stuff would it increase my casting distance of light lures and weights?

Or would I just end up with backlashes?

[alantani]

Originally Posted by Rusty Pipe

I know its not a saltwater Q, but if I cleaned the grease out of my Curado 201 for steelheading and used this stuff would it increase my casting distance of light lures and weights?

Or would I just end up with backlashes?

both.

so here's the deal. you have to put together all of these random variables - spool weight, line weight and characteristics, the rod and the lure that you're throwing. then add in your level of skill and the exact distance that you want to cast. specifically addressing the reel, what you want to do is start with a spool that will give you the maximum amount of freespool. that means the cleanest, best lubed bearings, zero load/zero freeplay on the endcap, zero friction between the spool shaft and the pinion gear, no brakes, no magnets and no friction anywhere else. then start casting to see how far you get.

what has to happen is that the lure has to start pulling the line out, accellerating the spool. if at anytime, the speed of the spool exceeds the speed of the line as it travels through the guides, you will get an overrun. that's the definition of an overrun. that's why you have to thumb and stop the spool as soon as your lure hits the water. that's also why you have to have the slightest amount of resistance in the spool when you cast. you just can't have too much or you won't get any distance. then you adjust the end cap. if that doesn't work, add a brakes, ideally opposing and symmetric, two at 180 deg, three at 120 deg, four at 90 deg, six at 60 degrees. if that doesn't work, then add magnets in the same symmetric configuration. i know that no one add's magnets in this fashion, but that is theoretically how it's done. and if that doesn't work, it's back to your thumb again. what starts the whole process is a flick of the wrist that gets that lure moving out over the water.

clear as mud, huh!

[Steve Carson]

Alan,
The same treatment on a small reel [Penn TRQ100, 525mag, 975CS, etc.] would be absolutely killer for tossing small anchovies, especially for albacore.
Anchovies may start "cycling back up" in abundance against the currently more abundant [and easier to cast] sardines.
The casting of live anchovies is not such a major issue for most PNW anglers, but for San Diego to San Francisco-based albacore fishing, it's a huge deal.
I bought some of that lube at the FHS, but haven't used it yet.

[alantani]

one of the purposes of using such an "old school" reel like the tld 30 was to show the potential of this new lube. i believe that it is now possible to bring this level of performance to ANY fishing reel. if will spin for seconds with hydrocarbon-based lubes, it will spin for minutes with these new dry teflon-based lubes. i got 90 seconds of freespool with a penn 525 mag earlier this week. not bad for a spool that is one tenth the weight of the tld spool.