deschutes or McKenzie

[riversquid]

HI , Ive posted here before but its been a while ,

a little about me , avid fisher who used to be a guide for Blue Biver Anglers out in Colorado , and let me tell you , that is some good flyfishing...
i moved out to oregon 5 years ago in chase of a cute female and ended up in Gearhart , i bought a beach house and a surf boat. ..ive do a bit of Gearhart beach claming crabbing and surfboating for kings and coho , ive been out to the tuna grounds in a 20 footer and to the butt hill..

i dont steelhead fish because i enjoy surfing in the winter, on my days i can get away for work but would love to get more involved in losing gear

my best fishing buddy from colorado is coming out and im going to take him drifting in a friends boat , i would love for there to be some lunkers to be had,, which is a better river? what about the john day?

he is coming out the first of May...Salmon flies? i like the deschutes but theres so many rules Like , no fishing from the boat! no smoking!
ive never fished the McKenzie, but i know its famous and pretty..

we want to have a 2 night stay.....i am a avid riverman and have been through some hairball stuff but havent rowed too many river in oregon

thanks for any imput ...

[Wild Chrome]

I've fished the D quite a bit in spring. Salmonflies don't really get going til mid-late May. Nymphs will get attacked earlier and there are other bugs around then. Water levels can be a problem in spring...jump around a lot. There are a lot of smolt around then too, which are entertaining at best, nuisance at worst and should be left alone if poss. They tend to accumulate in a little slower water than the redsides. Will also be some redsides still bedding, so try to avoid the gravel bars. If you go to the D in early May, you will beat the crowds!But not the snakes!

[Chester Allen]

I'll help a fellow surfer and fly angler....
Anyway, there will not be emerging, winged salmonflies during the first week of May, but there will be LOTS of salmonfly nymphs migrating toward the banks. Fishing bankside seams with a big ol' rubblerlegs or Brooks Stone may well tempt some redsides.

You can hardly ever go wrong on the Deschutes if your nymphs are rolling along the bottom. It isn't dry-fly fishing, but it's fun.

In addition, there should be good blue wing olive -- and maybe PMD -- hatches. Caddis should be hatching, and casting an x-caddis or iris caddis just before dark should spark some nice hits. Early Mother's Day caddis? Maybe!

As Wild Chrome points out, rattlesnakes will be out and about -- especially in rocky areas, trails, roads and tall grass. I am not kidding. I see more Deschutes rattlers from May 1 through June 15 than the rest of the year combined. Be careful, and you should be fine.

[jmd]

The deschutes from warm springs to trout creek . Redsides and bull trout are just waiting for your fly. 3 days and two nights in a drift boat is the way to go.

[riversquid]

o good good information, ive got some nice big prince nymphs and some *****'n caddis ..

fellow surfer , was macking out in the ocean today , and a local gearhart doryman with <lots of courage> launched the beach and drilled some cod off the point .. what a nut 14 foot faces 20 foot boat


that sound nice 3 dat 2 night thanks for the tip ..

5 or 8 weight? i dont have a spay rod . might be good to have though

[FlieFreak]

You may catch some green caddis on the mckenzie......Depending on where you float and what the conditions are you can hook some nice redsides this time on the year. It is a beautiful river. The only problem is keeping all the pellet heads that they stock off your line! Right not is one of my favorite times to catch nice nates in the mac.

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by jmd

The deschutes from warm springs to trout creek . Redsides and bull trout are just waiting for your fly. 3 days and two nights in a drift boat is the way to go.

That's a pretty short drift for 3 days. It's only 8 river miles.

I'd head to the lower river and fish from just below Shears to Macks Canyon. You're lower in the river so the big bugs will be more active as the water is warmer. They still won't be flying, but they will be migrating. We've had a lot of late season snow, with more cool weather expected next week, so the river may be abnormally cold in May, especially in the upper sections close to the dams.

TF

[Chester Allen]

Two Fister: That stretch of the Deschutes is often worth two nights and three days....

I do agree that fishing below Shears is a good idea this time of year.

Riversquid: nice, clean west swell rolling into Northwest through Tuesday afternoon....

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by Chester Allen

Two Fister: That stretch of the Deschutes is often worth two nights and three days....

To each his own. I've fished that section for about 26 years so I'm pretty familiar with it. It's crowded that time of year and being stuck on one or two pieces of water during an entire day isn't my idea of good fishing. I can spend an entire day between the ramp and Mecca when the fishing is good, but early May can be very hit or miss.

Another thing to consider when recommending nymphing with big stoneflies in early May is that the fish are still likely spawning during that time. The chances of disrupting their spawning succcess by dredging big nymphs through their redds is significant. If you want to fish that section when the fish are spawning leave the big nymphs at home so that you won't be tempted. If you are catching dark fish from knee to waist deep, walking pace runs, move to a new spot and let them get their groove on.

TF

[riversquid]

yea 8 miles is a short float , im used to 20 plus miles in two days , on the colorado river ,but you can fish from the boat there in colorado...not to be a whinner but dang thats a nutty rule no fishing from the boat?..seems as long
as your not anchored..

26 years WOW thats awesome ..thanks for the tips , im not into dark fish nore is my fishing buddy , we used to watch the brown trout in the fall and get in peoples faces for trying to catch them off their reds.. small creek big trout

what other rivers have great trout? , yea this cold weather ***.. bass in the john day i guess?..

the guy always comes at wacky times .. maybe we'll get some springers at the dam

thanks

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Two Fister

To each his own. I've fished that section for about 26 years so I'm pretty familiar with it. It's crowded that time of year and being stuck on one or two pieces of water during an entire day isn't my idea of good fishing. I can spend an entire day between the ramp and Mecca when the fishing is good, but early May can be very hit or miss.

Another thing to consider when recommending nymphing with big stoneflies in early May is that the fish are still likely spawning during that time. The chances of disrupting their spawning succcess by dredging big nymphs through their redds is significant. If you want to fish that section when the fish are spawning leave the big nymphs at home so that you won't be tempted. If you are catching dark fish from knee to waist deep, walking pace runs, move to a new spot and let them get their groove on.

TF

Where you been hiding?

I'm with Dan. If you have three days and want to shuttle three times WS to TC is OK but that section is crowded and sucks (I call it the carnival section). If you have three days and a drifboat make the big float WS to Harpham. Buckhollow to Macks is a good float as well...and hell if you've never done it float Macks to the Mouth. Enjoy.

[Wild Chrome]

Originally Posted by riversquid

yea 8 miles is a short float , im used to 20 plus miles in two days , on the colorado river ,but you can fish from the boat there in colorado...not to be a whinner but dang thats a nutty rule no fishing from the boat?..seems as long
as your not anchored..
thanks

Squid,
The reason so many are recommending the Deschutes is b/c the trout population is healthy and the river's doing well. 30 years ago, before the "nutty rules" went into effect, things were not so good. Biologists credit that rule with establishing trout "sanctuaries" that act as buffers to all the angling pressure. There's still lots of water to fish.

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by Wild Chrome

Squid,
30 years ago, before the "nutty rules" went into effect, things were not so good. Biologists credit that rule with establishing trout "sanctuaries" that act as buffers to all the angling pressure.

I think the no fishing from a boat rule went into effect in the 1930's. It was put into effect at the same time that the limit was lowered from 200 fish per day to 30 (I think). People were furious because you could catch that in pretty short order. I think that the rules that went into effect 30 years ago were the elimination of stocking, a reduction in the retention to the current 2 fish per day, and the slot limits of 10"-13".

I really like the rule myself. Using the boat for transport only slows you down and helps you learn the river. It forces you to camp in some sections and that's a good thing. It also keeps some areas free of harrassment for the fish so they can thrive. The trout in the Deschutes are the strongest fighting fish you will find anywhere. A friend with a house on the Bighorn told me that he thought that a 16" Redside could tow a 24" Bighorn fish around if they were tied together at the tail. Having caught both I'd agree.

I used to live in Breck and fished the Blue a lot. The Deschutes will be a whole new kind of experience for you. If your friend is decent on the sticks it's a great time to run the Trout Creek to Harpham run. I live to do it in 4 days and 3 nights which is why I recommended the lower river, but lots of guys do it in 3 days. You have to run Whitehorse rapids which can be challenging. If you don't run it properly it can be life threatening. There's lots of threads about Whitehorse so take a look and see if it feels like something you want to take on.

Hey Sam. Been spending time up on the mountain. This warm weather has me jonesing. Been getting out?

TF

[Wild Chrome]

Originally Posted by Two Fister

I think the no fishing from a boat rule went into effect in the 1930's. It was put into effect at the same time that the limit was lowered from 200 fish per day to 30 (I think). People were furious because you could catch that in pretty short order. I think that the rules that went into effect 30 years ago were the elimination of stocking, a reduction in the retention to the current 2 fish per day, and the slot limits of 10"-13".

ITF

Yeah, you're right. I got the date mixed up with the slot limit.

Nice post! I agree about the redside's strength. I think a 16 inch redside could pull a small Snake River steelhead around too! I often wonder why I don't fish for them more while every else on the river is competing for steelhead water. Quest for chrome, I guess.

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by riversquid

what other rivers have great trout?

Metolius; it's my favorite river in May (when I'm not chasing early Summers and Springers).

[Zugbug66]

Originally Posted by AndyK

Metolius; it's my favorite river in May (when I'm not chasing early Summers and Springers).

I love and Hate the Metolius at the same time. Fishing for Bows on that river can be one of the most humbling experiences known to man. 90% of the time on on the metolius, I'm squating down, hiding behind a bush, casting a 12', 6x leader to a Bow thats smarter than me. I have to hit the deschutes on the way home just to get my confidence back.

[Stickswinger]

The benefit of Trout Creek to Maupin or the lower river in early May is that water levels are higher. This will make WHitehorse easier to navigate and Boxcar will be almost completely covered. Instead of taking a driftboat, you can rent a raft and they will provide coolers, oars, pfds and ropes and shuttles. This is a 40 mile long float that can easily be done in three days. I have done it in two. The other benefit to this float is that there is very little fishing pressure (due to the whitewater) and you can land 30 fish per day. If you want more details, pm me,but this is my favorite fishing float in the spring.

[Chester Allen]

I love that long float as well, but I hate to recommend it to a Deschutes newbie because of Whitehorse.

The stretch from Warm Springs to Trout Creek has plenty of good water, and there are lots of little spots -- well away from trout redds -- that hold really nice fish. I've fished the Deschutes since 1983. And you'll find trout redds throughout the river....

I never fish over redds, which are super-easy to spot, and trout do not spawn in deeper, faster, bouldery spots right next to the bank.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Stickswinger

The benefit of Trout Creek to Maupin or the lower river in early May is that water levels are higher. This will make WHitehorse easier to navigate and Boxcar will be almost completely covered. Instead of taking a driftboat, you can rent a raft and they will provide coolers, oars, pfds and ropes and shuttles. This is a 40 mile long float that can easily be done in three days. I have done it in two. The other benefit to this float is that there is very little fishing pressure (due to the whitewater) and you can land 30 fish per day. If you want more details, pm me,but this is my favorite fishing float in the spring.

30 fish a day. Send me a PM!

Be careful running whitehorse in high water...the entrance is sometimes impossible to spot from your boat even after scouting and the washing machine is a swamper. I much prefer whitehorse at low levels but that's just me. I have been scared three times in whitehorse and twice was last year above 6500 cfs.

Also TC, to Harpham (forget about boxcar and wapanitia if you are fishing) can be floated in a day so take your time up high...no need to race.

[nookslayer]

I have to agree with Slow and Low. WS to TC is crowded this time of year and with anglers who don't always know the ways of the D. If you are going to have 3 days to float I would go Macks to the mouth. Beautiful and peacful float that will produce.
I do have to say that's a tough desicion though between the Mac and the D. This is a great time to hit the lime green hatch down there and a good time for nates without the pescky stocked fish.

[BarroomHero]

So i'm probably goint to hit up the Mckenzie this weekend. Anybody have any recent reports, or advice on a productive drift this weekend? Any risers or is it going to be a nymphing outing? Thanks for any help guys and gals!

[Fly Flickr]

The lower Mac has been fishing well mostly anywhere below belinger. There has been a pretty good march brown hatch most days at about 2 or so otherwise you can nymph all day with big stony patterns. Don't forget some soft hackles for swingin'!

[FlieFreak]

march browns between 1-3. possie buggers and prince nymphs should be good. I like to float from hendricks to hayden or belinger to harvest.

[riversquid]

sorry for the slow reply ive been away from the robot , and thanks for all the great imput..

i just watched some utube vids from the whitehorse, and i looks pretty mellow in some and narly in others ... it looks as if you hit it a little crocked your a gone'r and if you hit it head on your surfing and may pearl (nosedive)..

maybe we will just run the upper section until i get to see ol' whitey form my own eyes .. the boat owner might not be to happy to hear his boat is now at the bottom of the "D" wrapped around on a rock ...wood does decompose though..

and the raft rental might be a great option too...



i will be using a shinebox of a wooden drifter , i am very confident on the ors but thats what gets you in trouble ..

thanks again

[Slow and Low]

OK, this is MadMikey's pic but it is the best illistration of the critical section of WH Rapids. Get out of your boat and look for the far line. The near line is upredictable and caused a big dent in my chine 3 years ago.

Enjoy the ride and more importantly the massive anxiety that come 12 hours before und until WH.

[Fly Flickr]

So, is the line his finger is on the one you like? I have always(3 times) taken that close one and I can only say "sketch!". I have been rowing a boat since I was 13 (23 yrs) and that is the only place I have nightmares about. I never hit anything but man it will make your butt pucker. I will probly go again this summer and I want to know more about this "far line" if you can tell me.

[Slow and Low]

Hell no! The line I like is drawn in red, around the hogs back then straight at the washing machine. The "obviouse V" is straight at "o sh_t".

Here'sa birds eye view.

[Fly Flickr]

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I was missing something. But I guess not. Is oh sh#! rock that one that no matter what you can't stop pulling becase if you do you will be on it? and is it the same one in the middle of that last pic? I ran it my first time in 2004 and remember everyone telling me this and that but, I ignored them and then when I walked it before running it I wished I had been paying more attention. Since then anytime I hear people talk about that rapid I try to get thier perspective and listen closely. The second time I ran it a guy hit what I presume to be OH sh#! rock and flipped right behind me. I felt bad cause I think he was trying to follow me, but he got out of it ok and I think he got his boat back in almost one piece. And yes anxiety is a factor for the 12 hours prior, except for the first time cause you don't know what you are in for. Ha!

[FishWonk]

I've only been through that once, while someone else rowed. Much easier on me than him! Slow and Low's bird-eye view shot brings it all back. I had looked at MadMikey's pic last year, and of course scouted the rapids before running it, only to find that everything looked WAY different down on the water, and I had no idea what was oh shoot rock, and what was can opener, and what was clear....glad I was the rider.

Can anyone draw a line on Slow and Low's on-the-water photo? Might be helpful...
thanks

[BigSteelyHead123]

Originally Posted by Zugbug66

I love and Hate the Metolius at the same time. Fishing for Bows on that river can be one of the most humbling experiences known to man. 90% of the time on on the metolius, I'm squating down, hiding behind a bush, casting a 12', 6x leader to a Bow thats smarter than me. I have to hit the deschutes on the way home just to get my confidence back.

I agree.. fished it today.. and well.. don't think I'll be back again anytime soon. I can think of a lot better fisheries for bows, i.e. The D. or Crooked river.

Answer to the orignal question.. I'd fish the Deschutes.

[Wild Chrome]

Is Oh S%$t rock the one right under the guy's watch in the first photo?

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Wild Chrome

Is Oh S%$t rock the one right under the guy's watch in the first photo?

Nope. The obviose V will take you straight at o sh_t. It's about 30-40 yards below. Can opener is before and on the right. Guys who run this line slide behind can opener to miss o sh_t. you get three strokes and they all count. Miss one and you have a problem. Also neihter rock is visible in higher water but they are still there. I'll add some more shots of When I get back to the homestead.

[Fly Flickr]

Thanks for the info and I like the pics, this is great stuff. We might be a little off topic here but I like tapping into some local wisdom about this. Also, I fished the Mac on Fri. actually hooked a steelhead (on a megaprince)didn't land it on the 4 weight though. We caught some nice redsides with a few taking flies on top.

[stlhdr]

There are some pretty cool videos on youtube of people running Whitehorse.

[FishonDon]

There are a lot of regs on the Deschutes, and personally I believe it gets a lot of pressure throughout May and June. You will be checked by the river rangers, so you better know and be living by all the regs. If you don't have life jackets, an emergencyaudible devise or a sealable toilet to take, then don't go. Also besides your licenses, you will each have to have a boaters pass. You can only fish the east half of the river from Warm Springs down to Trout Creek unless you obtain a tribal permit, then there are alot of regulations to the tribal permit as well. If you do get one, then you can't start fishing the west side of the river untill you are 1/3 of the way through the drift. If you unfamiliar with the river, then don't go and get you and your buddy in trouble.

The Mac allows you to fish from the boat, and is a fairly easy river to drift as long as you stay low.

[riversquid]

thanks don ...yea god there are a O s#it load of rules on that river , and you must always have all the stuff for overnight riverstays us colorado river guides love our fish and clean rivers we always have the bagged crapper , **** whistle , throw bags , extra vest and oar, ..whisky rapids , and pot holes

it always seems this river has a lot of cant do that , cant do this ... which is good if theres been issues in the past .. i guess i was spoiled in colorado, maybe its the sunshine there HA ha

yea maybe the MAC .. i do love to hit all the water and hate to watch holes go by , that drives me nuts , you cant stop at them all..


i would love to see whitehorse, sounds harry

thanks to everyone input \\//

t

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by riversquid

it always seems this river has a lot of cant do that , cant do this ... which is good if theres been issues in the past .. i guess i was spoiled in colorado, maybe its the sunshine there HA ha

Don't forget the Deschutes is on the dry side of the state. Lots of days when it's sunny and warm on the D when it's drizzling in PDX.

I ran in to lots of fences across rivers in Western Colorado. It's legal there. It's not legal in Oregon so we've got that going for us.

The D gets lots of pressure. If folks could fish from the boat the fish wouldn't have any refuge. They'd likely start stocking again and the quality of the fishing would go way down. Kind of like it has on the McKenzie.

TF

[NWFloridian]

If it were up to me, I'd fish the Deschutes. Lots of rules? Yup. Lots of big fish? Yup. Some of the hardest fighting fish in the world? Yup.

They're starting the annual mega stocking of the Mac for the general trout opener on the 20th. 6900 fish in the Mac--and that's not even counting the mega stocking of steelhead smolts that's already under way. If you like catching mushy hatchery fish, have at it. If you want to catch some quality native fish in a beautiful environment, I'd hit the D. On your way home you can hit the Met or Fall River.

BTW, I live in Eugene and rarely fish the Mac once the stocking begins.

Dave

[riversquid]

great point .... stockers ... yuck.. i would rather catch 2 nates a day than 20 stockers...


rules are good, if there has been problems ...sounds like there has been some in the past...

if not fishing from the boat prevents stocking im all for it..

sir prince a-lot ...thats my nick name fly i tie and love, will use it there..

would love to run the lower section , but i need to do more research

awesome.. again groover in toe...

do we all need a whistle?

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by riversquid

great point .... stockers ... yuck.. i would rather catch 2 nates a day than 20 stockers...


rules are good, if there has been problems ...sounds like there has been some in the past...

if not fishing from the boat prevents stocking im all for it..

sir prince a-lot ...thats my nick name fly i tie and love, will use it there..

would love to run the lower section , but i need to do more research

awesome.. again groover in toe...

do we all need a whistle?

Get the BLM guide to the deschutes, I think it's $15, I have several. Yes you need an audible device and they will check you unless (and even if) you have the safety inspection sticker on your boat. If you are competant, as you say you are, floating either section, WS HF, PT Heritage should be no problem. The BLM guide will tell you what where and how.

And oh BTW, fishing out of a boat is weak (IMO). Have a great trip.

[Chester Allen]

I've fished the Deschutes since 1983, and I believe all those rules have helped create -- and protect -- one of the best wild trout fisheries on the planet. The Deschutes is on a caliber with the best Montana and Idaho trout fisheries -- and it also has great summer steelheading.

I fished the McKenzie while I was getting my degree at the University of Oregon. It's a nice river -- and has lots of nice fish -- but it does not compare to the Deschutes.
As an aside, the Willamette River from Eugene to Corvallis is one of the most underrated trout streams in the state....

[jmd]

White horse can be run down the far left side to. I think when you could take a jet boat up the river back in the 50's 60's thats how they would go. More time fishing get's you more fish.

[nookslayer]

Just an FYI, the Mac has a HUGE black caddis hatch as of Sat. It was think and last year it was non existant. Much easier float but Chester is right, its not even close to the same thing. Both are great rivers in their own right but the D is a soulful experience.

[XQB]

Originally Posted by nookslayer

Just an FYI, the Mac has a HUGE black caddis hatch as of Sat. It was think and last year it was non existant. Much easier float but Chester is right, its not even close to the same thing. Both are great rivers in their own right but the D is a soulful experience.

I'll be floating the Mac tomorrow (Hendricks to Bellinger). Hope those caddis are still active? Figured might as well get a sunburn. Will report back after trip.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by jmd

White horse can be run down the far left side to. I think when you could take a jet boat up the river back in the 50's 60's thats how they would go. More time fishing get's you more fish.

I know guys that have done it but it's a fols game.