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How much worse is it? CR springers

3K views 25 replies 16 participants last post by  Vosso 
#1 Ā·
A common sentiment in the recent discussions of CR springers is that things are getting worse every year. Without taking the time to pull up a bunch of statistics, I offer these observations.

The year 2001 we had the first general open season in the CR since the mid 70's.
Several recent years there was little or no fishing above I-5.
The all-time highest Bonneville springer counts have come in the past eight years.
The TOTAL springer count at Bonneville in 95 or 96 was 10,500. We can expect DOUBLE that number to pass on single DAYS this year.

There's always room for improvement, but how about a little recognition for how much BETTER things are now than they were ten years ago?

How about a little of this energy and passion being thrown in support of managers and their fights over river management (flows), predation (sea lions, terns, cormorants), high seas interception, and what ever else stands in the way of recovery efforts?

That's all I got to say about that.
 
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#3 Ā·
I agree, we should be very happy that things are turning around and looking up. I think that the negative sentiment has more to do with the feeling that sportfishers are not being looked out for by WDFW and ODFW (especially ODFW this year). While more fish are returning than in the recent past, fisheries are still not being managed for optimum opportunity or for optimum conservation.

Also, the runs aren't the highest runs of "all time" as you stated. It is the highest runs since we recently began keeping statistics. Prior to that, the runs were tens of times higher. When you hear statistics saying "highest run on record" it really means that, "on record." Prior to us daming the river and over harvesting there used to be far more fish.
 
#4 Ā·
I agree, we should be very happy that things are turning around and looking up. I think that the negative sentiment has more to do with the feeling that sportfishers are not being looked out for by WDFW and ODFW (especially ODFW this year). While more fish are returning than in the recent past, fisheries are still not being managed for optimum opportunity or for optimum conservation.

Also, the runs aren't the highest runs of "all time" as you stated. It is the highest runs since we recently began keeping statistics. Prior to that, the runs were tens of times higher. When you hear statistics saying "highest run on record" it really means that, "on record." Prior to us daming the river and over harvesting there used to be far more fish.
I said "all time highest Bonneville counts" to aid my argument that things are getting better, not worse. We can no more hope to regain pre white man salmon runs than we can pre white man buffalo herds.

"Optimum opportunity" for who? For all user groups or just sport fishers? We may (and should) some day have a low to zero impact comercial fishery to supply the non-fishing public with their share, but that is not a currently available option.

Define "Optimum conservation" as you would have it. Sports and lower river commercials are limited to taking a combined 2% of ESL fish. (Feel free to correct me if that number is in error). How much more conservative do you think management should be?
 
#9 Ā·
Yes..that applies to the Columbia..what can you tell me good about the Willamette River and it's salmon management? I'm listening.

Mark

All LCR springer numbers are way down, which suggests ocean conditions as the most likely cause, rather than management issues.
 
#12 Ā·
Cosmo-

The title of the thread names CR springers, and in it I contend that things are much better than they have been in just the recent past.

Are there issues to be made over management? Yes.

Do I think the recreational/commercial split is fair? No.

Is ignorance bliss? I don't know.

Are you calling me ignorant? Maybe. I don't care.

In 1972 I caught a springer from a beach near Rainier. In 2002 I caught my next springer from a beach near Rainier. And more over the next six years.

This year I get the chance to catch some more. And sitting on that beach or out in my boat waiting for the bell to ring or the drag to zing, that's bliss.

There's a time to complain about the way things are.
There's a time to work to make things more the way they should be.
And there's a time to take what you have and go fishing.
 
#15 Ā·
It's long over due- first things first, pinnipeds, Cormorrant, terns, mergansers. How can we leave top of the chain predators unchecked. A small season we have on mergansers,but how many waterfowlers get after them. When I float the river (cast and blast)the entire neighborhood calls the sheriff when I fire away, even though its "legal"- out of city limits, 100 feet from a county road, ect...
did someone let some hogs loose on the island? I love to hog hunt!!!!!
 
#20 Ā·
I could easily be wrong, but I thought mini-jacks were early maturing males that never left the river/estuary for the most part. How would improved ocean conditions affect mini-jack counts?

- Brad
No one seems to know a lot about mini jacks, but here's my theory:

I think minis are smolts that go down river a ways, maybe to the estuary, then come back. Thus my initial suggestion that good river conditions for the out migration are key, led to last year's good mini count and should provide this year's jacks.

Good ocean conditions may help by providing avian predators more alternative prey. But mostly I think it's good rivers that provide good minis.
 
#19 Ā·
CKThumper, I'm with you. Right now I've decided to go with glass half full instead of half empty because we get some time to fish. I'm going to try to catch some fish and enjoy myself and I have over 20 ifishers signed up for open seats who I'll try to get into a springer, as well. I hope we all have fun on good days and bad.

On the glass half empty side:

I kind of feel like I'll actually get less time to fish in prime time this year compared to last year despite the larger predicted run size and apparent longer season.

I feel like losing Sundays during the best time in that season will hurt me and others who work Mon-Fri.

I appreciate having all those returning hatchery salmon and I know we could catch and keep a heck of a lot more of them without affecting egg needs at the hatcheries, if it weren't for those pesky un-clipped fish.

I know that all those hatchery fish ought to get harvested to keep them from spawning on the gravel, so the real wild stocks the ESA is supposed to protect can survive and prosper.

I wonder if we are fooling ourselves in thinking that we're protecting those ESA stocks. I wonder if they weren't really long gone well before the ESA was passed into law.

I wonder if its a good thing or a bad thing for the ESA-listed stocks (whatever they may be in actuality) to have a quarter million hatchery fish mixed in with them. Do more survive the gauntlet of gill nets, hooks, sea lions and dams than would survive in the absence of those hatchery fish?

Doggone it...now my glass is half empty again.

Bartender! I'll have another. Make it a pitcher!
 
#23 Ā· (Edited)
I think you make some good points Cosmo.

However, I also think there is nothing wrong with always wanting things to be better, it is human nature to strive for improvement. If we weren't all griping, moaning, and writing our govt officials and fish managers then things probably would not be changing for the better.

"Necessity is the mother of invention" and so long as we feel we "need it", we will probably find a way to "get it".

I'm happy with the positive direction we have seen but I will continue to press for further improvements.

RM
 
#24 Ā·
You are right -- we do have a fishing season but the commercial interests are on full CHARGE! They are trying to eliminate the Wash Game Commission so they can deal directly with WDFW. If you think Oregon has problems with their Commission just wait and see what Washington ends up with if this bill goes through.

Get educated, get involved -- Join CCA!

Redhawk
 
#25 Ā·
I would agree things do seem to be improving, but until we get 10yr averages of around 500,000 springers over Bonneville there is still a lot of work to do.
Crunched some numbers and here are the results.
10 year averages for springer returns up to June 1st.
ā€œ1950ā€ 60,595, ā€œ1960ā€ 111,673, ā€œ1970ā€ 100,846, ā€œ1980ā€ 123,457
ā€œ1990ā€ 75,870 ā€œ2000ā€ 62,663 ā€œ1998-2008ā€ 153,148
Highest single year return ā€œ2001ā€ 393,502
Lowest single year returns ā€œ1949ā€ 7,268 ā€œ1995ā€ 10,295

Canā€™t wait to see how this year turns out.
 
#26 Ā·
2X AMEN!

It would just be nice if the powers that be actually started paying attention to the economics a little more. A commercial caught springer is worth about $200 tops to the local economy. A sport caught springer is probably worth about $1000 including what we all spend on gas, gear, boats, travel, guides, magazines, etc.

Has anyone ever done a study like this? Seems like a no-brainer. I'm sorry that commercial fishing for springers isn't a viable job anymore, but neither is working for Lehman Brothers. Times change, why the hell are we subsidizing a totally uneconomical industry?
 
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