Re: Finally!

[Vance Staplin]

Here is a tips section that may give some ideas and a different perspective when you are trolling deep:

Downrigger, Deep Water Trolling Tips & Techniques
By Vance Staplin
Some of these tips were included in my article for
Salmon, Trout, & Steelheader Magazine (June /July 2004 Issue)

Although downriggers have been around for decades, many questions are unanswered for anglers seeking to fine-tune their skills. We have come a long way since the days back in the 70’s. I was repeatedly being mistaken for a commercial fisherman, because I had two manual downriggers mounted on my 17-foot boat.

Now here we are some thirty years later, and some anglers are still a little intimidated by the thought of dragging a heavy weight a couple of hundred feet below their boat. The truth is, modern electronics combined with the accuracy of downriggers is a deadly combination. If you are currently trolling deep with trolling weights, planer devices, or lead core line, you may seriously want to consider stepping up to downriggers.

CHOOSING YOUR DOWNRIGGER

When choosing your downrigger, remember that the boom length must be long enough to effectively clear your cable and lines from your prop while making tight turns. Other important features to consider are an accurate line counter, a good clutch/brake system, and if you are considering a manual downrigger some offer a 2 ft per crank option. This is an important feature when you are fishing deep.

Proper placement on your boat is crucial. Mount your downriggers as far to the stern of your boat as possible, allow room for basic operation, setting the release and clearing debris.

WEIGHTS

I have found that 6 to 8 lb finned round cannonball style weights are best while fishing inland lakes to100 feet. At speeds above 2.5 m.p.h. or depths below 100 feet, a 10 or 12 lb weight may be necessary.

RELEASES

There are many different styles of releases on the market today. I highly recommend choosing a pinch type release with a stacker clip and cable lead to your release. This style release is the easiest to use and will show a strike even if the fish doesn’t trip the release. This helps tremendously if you are trolling bait or you catch a small fish not large enough to release. Releases are generally sold as light, medium or heavy. It is very important that you select the release that has the correct tension setting for the type of fishing you intend to do.

If the release is too light it will release while you are letting down your presentation, if it is too heavy it won’t release properly when the fish is hooked. The ideal release will hold tight until the fish strikes and hooks itself, then release immediately when the fish begins to fight.


RODS

This is where the fun begins. The downrigger does all of the work to get your presentation down to and hook the fish. It is possible to run long, light and sometimes even ultra-light rods. I use 7 to 7 1/2 foot E-glass rods when targeting Kokanee, Trout, and Landlocked Salmon to 6 lbs. I use 8 to 8 1/2 ft E-glass for Mackinaw, Brown Trout, and large Salmon.

Over the year’s most top end and custom rod manufactures have tried with limited success to introduce the “odd-looking” Roberts spiral wrap design rods. Unfortunately the public couldn’t seem to understand the theory of having the guides rotate the line from the top to underneath the rod. This is a shame because I have found that this design is far superior for downrigging applications. The guide rotation prevents line rub when the rod is loaded, and the tip is facing down which helps prevent tangles.

REELS

When running light rods on the downrigger it is imperative that your trolling reel have the best drag system available. A minimum of four to one ratio will help you catch up to your fish quickly after it trips your release, and you definitely want to have a large line capacity. Another important feature I have found is a “line out” alarm/clicker. Engaging this feature prevents backlashes when you are lowering down your weight quickly to get it to your desired depth.

LINE

Line choice is a personal preference to the individual. Monofilament has its advantages when trolling with downriggers. The stretch of the line can assist an already limber rod in slowing down the fast run of a soft-mouthed Kokanee. I use 8 or 10 lb test line on my rod when fishing for Kokanee, Trout, or landlocked Salmon to 6 lbs. The new fluorocarbon leaders tend to break easier than monofilament. To alleviate this problem I have stepped up to 8 lb test fluorocarbon leaders.

When trolling for Mackinaw, Brown Trout, and large Salmon I recommend 17 to 20 lb line. When trolling faster than 2 1/2 M.P.H. or deeper than 100 feet run a 50-foot fluorocarbon leader attached to 30 lb Power Pro. This process allows the use of the thicker invisible line to the release, but have 30 lb line with the diameter of 8 lb running vertical to your rod. This helps alleviate the line ballooning from the rod to the release and also makes it easier when you decide to trip the release with your rod because of minimal stretch.

OPERATING YOUR DOWNRIGGER

With the boat moving forward at trolling speed, lower your downrigger ball into the water about a foot. Attach your stacker/release at a comfortable height on your downrigger cable. Then let your line out to the desired length behind the boat and attach it to the release. Release the spool and let the weight go down and stop it at the desired depth.
Put your rod in the rod holder and tighten the line until the rod loads in a gentle arc. Be cautious, over tightening the line will cause a premature release and you will have to start the whole process again. IMPORTANT: To prevent tangles, never completely stop your boat while trolling with downriggers.

MULTIPLE RODS (Stacking)

To fish two rods on one downrigger simply follow the same process as above. Stop your first rod when it reaches 10 feet down and add a second stacker release system. Let the line out on your second rod to the desired length behind your boat and attach it to the release. Release the spool and let both rods down to the desired depth.

ATTRACTORS ON YOUR DOWNRIGGER WEIGHT

Downriggers give us a unique opportunity to get the noise and flash of large attractors without the heavy drag on our lines. Tackle manufactures have seen the opportunity to make large gang trolls designed to attach to downrigger weights. These “Cannonball Trolls” resemble a school of fish swimming at the weight, which in turn attracts other fish to the close proximity. To utilize these trolls it is important that you run your dodger and lure in tight to the release. Generally, the lure is no farther back than 12 feet behind the release.

WORK YOUR FISH

Short lining with “Cannonball Trolls” can allow tight turns that can be very handy when a school of fish or bait is located. On inland lakes a simple weighted marker can be tossed over when a fish is hooked up (on windy days or on the ocean use your GPS). Make an immediate turn to the side of the boat that the fish is on. This will give you more control of the fish because you will be fighting to the side of the boat away from your downriggers. When you net your fish continue your circle around and do a figure eight around your marker. During this process it is common to have multiple hookups.


MUTIPLE SPECIES ON THE SAME ROD

Most states allow multiple hooks to be used on the same rod. This can be an incredible advantage when using downriggers. Lakes that have Mackinaw, Brown Trout, or King Salmon, often have Rainbow Trout or Kokanee. These species like different water temperatures, and it is very common throughout the day for Kokanee and Trout to be half way down to the Mackinaw, Browns, or Salmon, because of temperature preferences.

Let’s say you are trolling for Mackinaw at 100 feet and you see other species on your sounder in the 45 to 50 foot range. Take a flutter spoon and tie on about three feet of leader to a ball bearing snap swivel. While trolling, without lifting your gear, attach the snap swivel to your line between the surface and your rod tip. Gently drop the spoon into the water to prevent the hook from fouling. This will slide down the arc of the line and stop in the middle, which is half way to your release.

When targeting different species it is important to use tackle that requires the same trolling speed. This can often be done by using the same lures in different colors, along with different scents, or by tipping them with white corn or pieces of night crawler. A favorite combination I use is a T-50 flatfish trolled deep for mackinaw, with a Sockeye Slammer 2 as a mid-line spoon for Trout or Kokanee.

TROLLING SPEED

It is incredibly important that you are trolling the speed that your terminal gear is designed to run. A dodger, for example, is designed to swish back and forth rapidly. If your Dodger is rolling over you are trolling too fast and will detour fish from striking. Unfortunately, the paddle wheel type speed indicators that are used on fish finders are not accurate in windy conditions (because of surface movement) or at slow speeds. The most accurate slow speed indicators I have found are the pendulum type with a weighted cord that hangs below the surface of the water.

FLASHER vs. DODGERS

This subject can be confusing; I need to clarify the difference in the attractors mentioned.

Dodgers: are designed to swish back and forth rapidly. Dodgers create less flash than gang trolls but offer added action to lures.

Flashers: are similar in design as Dodgers, but are designed to rotate completely over. Flashers are most common on the west coast for ocean Salmon. I have found good success using them for that purpose. But, have not done well with them on inland species.

Gang Trolls: are multiple blades on steel wire, designed to spin around the shaft. These are most common on inland waters for trolling for Trout and Kokanee. Gang trolls have a bad rap as being known to cause heavy drag on your fishing rod. This is not true for all trolls, we designed our Slim Willie and Little Slim Willie trolls for maximum flash with minimal drag. In fact, the Little Slim Willie series doesn’t drag more than our Dodger at trolling speed.

The choice between attractors is often a personal preference, unless you are working a lure that has no action like a Hoochie or Kokanee and Trout Bug. When fishing those lures I recommend a dodger.

When trolling early in the spring while the fish are on top I prefer to use a gang troll over dodgers because gang trolls put out more flash and create more vibration that attract fish.

TARGETING MULTIPLE SPECIES WITH THE SAME LURES

Often the same lures will catch multiple species by tipping the hook with different baits. A Sockeye Slammer, for example, can be tipped with white shoepeg corn (where regulations allow corn) for Kokanee. While targeting Rainbow’s or Landlocked Salmon the same lure can be deadly with a piece of night crawler for a trailer. Be sure not to overload the hook with the worm and kill the action of the spoon. Use about a 1” section of night crawler on a Sockeye Slammer 2. Do not feed the worm up the hook, hook the worm at the very end and slide it down to the middle of the bend of the hook. Place the lure in the water at trolling speed to ensure that the lure is working and wiggling the worm.

LEADER LENGTHS

The type of attractor, and the action of the lure being used determines the leader length. Kokanee bugs for example, have no action of their own and need to be pulled behind a Dodger. A good rule in this situation is a leader three times the length of the Dodger.

When using a lure with an aggressive action, extend your leader out 18 to 22 inches behind your dodger or trolls.

Good luck this season...

Vance Staplin

[Jennie@ifish]

Bump!

[SilverBullets]

Thanks Vance! I still have that STS edition from 2004, excellent write up! This would be a great addition to the tech, tips, and keepers!

[FallRiverGuy]

Thanks for posting this Vance. It is nice to have you visiting Ifish.

[Don Fischer]

That is great! Is it alright to print it out?

I'm courious. I spooled 4# test on the rod I'm gonna try first. 7' Celilo Kokanne Pro. My idea was that first I don't need that heavy a line fot that small a fish and then with the small dia line there should be less drag in the water from the rod to the ball. Maybe I should use 15# braided line? I ordered some, it's 4# dia. I got it for a walleye rod. Braided not streach enough?

Also it sounds like your not attaching the release to the ball but rather to the line above the ball?

[Waterfish]

The most accurate slow speed indicators I have found are the pendulum type with a weighted cord that hangs below the surface of the water.

I am interested in learning more about this type of speed indicator. Could you point me towards some brands and models to look at?

[SilverBullets]

Originally Posted by Waterfish

I am interested in learning more about this type of speed indicator. Could you point me towards some brands and models to look at?

Check out the Luhr-Jensen Troll Speed Indicator.

[dlm]

For under a 100 bucks at bi-mart I picked up a hand held magellan gps unit that works fantastic with both speed and pinpointing locations. It is a little hard on batteries though. I have pinged off of as many as 9 satellites depending on the lake I am on.

[Waterfish]

Originally Posted by dlm

For under a 100 bucks at bi-mart I picked up a hand held magellan gps unit that works fantastic with both speed and pinpointing locations. It is a little hard on batteries though. I have pinged off of as many as 9 satellites depending on the lake I am on.

A GPS gives you "speed over land", it doesn't take into account current (like in a river) or currents on the surface of a lake caused by wind. Here's a good example: Trolling downstream on the Columbia (for salmon), if the speed of the current was 2.0 mph, in order for a paddlewheel fish finder to register a speed of 1.0 mph, you would have to move at a GPS speed (speed over land) of 3.0 mph - so your GPS is reading 3.0 mph while your paddlewheel fish finder is reading 1.0 mph.

I am planning to buy a new Hummingbird 997c side sonar fish finder. It has a GPS but no paddlewheel on the transducer. So I am going to have to have a separate speed indicator to determine my true trolling speed. If you were fishing on a lake with no wind or current, then GPS speed and speed from a paddlewheel would be the same, but thats often not the case.

[SilverBullets]

Bought a Humminbird 777c2 with the paddle wheel a couple years back. Didn't trust the speed reading we were getting, so got the Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator. There was a world of difference between the two, especially down around kok trolling speeds.
Last season we upgraded the Humminbird with GPS, mainly because of the hassle of setting up the Luhr-Jensen devise every time out, and found that between the two there was not much difference at speeds around 1.2 mph. with no wind.

[Waterfish]

Originally Posted by Silver Bullets

Bought a Humminbird 777c2 with the paddle wheel a couple years back. Didn't trust the speed reading we were getting, so got the Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator. There was a world of difference between the two, especially down around kok trolling speeds.
Last season we upgraded the Humminbird with GPS, mainly because of the hassle of setting up the Luhr-Jensen devise every time out, and found that between the two there was not much difference at speeds around 1.2 mph. with no wind.

You're right, in theory on a calm lake with no current or wind, the GPS speed would be identical to a calibrated paddlewheel (or Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator). But with wind on a lake, or especially in a river with current, there is a huge difference.

[Vance Staplin]

Sorry guy's I thought my post was taken off the board for reasons that I didn't understand.

I wouldn't know what was wrong because It is completely about trolling techniques that can benefit new trollers. I assumed that was a good thing.

The best Trolling speed indicator that I know of is the Luhr Jensen model with the 1 lb ball that hangs on a string. This ball hangs deep enough to not have wind affect the readings.

But now days most guy's have GPS systems that are very accurate when there is no current.

Vance Staplin

[Vance Staplin]

Originally Posted by Vance Staplin

Sorry guy's I thought my post was taken off the board for reasons that I didn't understand.

I wouldn't know what was wrong because It is completely about trolling techniques that can benefit new trollers. I assumed that was a good thing.

The best Trolling speed indicator that I know of is the Luhr Jensen model with the 1 lb ball that hangs on a string. This ball hangs deep enough to not have wind affect the readings.

But now days most guy's have GPS systems that are very accurate when there is no current.

Vance Staplin

[Vance Staplin]

Hi Don Fischer,

I'm not a fan of braided line for Kokanee trolling. I have tried it repeatedly and found the stretch of mono has its benefits. Not to mention the tangles of the thin braides while trolling....Whew! Even on an extremely light kokanee rod you will lose more fish with the non-stretch braids. I have a long story about this but won't bore you with sharing it.

I do like braid when trolling deep for Mackinaw/Lakers though. The small diameter non-stretch lines definitely have the advantage in those conditions.

My .02 cents

Vance Staplin

[ElkTalker]

Really great info Vance,
Thanks for sharing ET

[adobe wall]

Originally Posted by Waterfish

You're right, in theory on a calm lake with no current or wind, the GPS speed would be identical to a calibrated paddlewheel (or Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator). But with wind on a lake, or especially in a river with current, there is a huge difference.

Yep. It really doesn't matter what method you use though as a minimal amount of experience will get you dialed in. I use GPS and prefer it. On the Columbia I know I need to be trolling at about .8 mph ground speed faster than the current.

Lake trolling, I have another set of preferences for kokes. If you are using a Luhr-Jensen indicator, or paddlewheel water speed indicator, you'll learn pretty quickly where the sweet spot is for different conditions.

regards, aw

[Waterfish]

Originally Posted by adobe wall

Yep. It really doesn't matter what method you use though as a minimal amount of experience will get you dialed in. I use GPS and prefer it. On the Columbia I know I need to be trolling at about .8 mph ground speed faster than the current.

Lake trolling, I have another set of preferences for kokes. If you are using a Luhr-Jensen indicator, or paddlewheel water speed indicator, you'll learn pretty quickly where the sweet spot is for different conditions.

regards, aw

I tried out my Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator for the first time last Saturday, trolling for springers on the Columbia. Throughout the day as the tides affected the current speed of the river, the Luhr-Jensen device took all of the guess work out of it and helped me maintain a consistent 0.8 mph speed over water. I noticed that the GPS speed over ground varied from 2.5 mph to 3.3 mph, even as I kept the speed over water at 0.8 mph. No more pulling my herring up all the time to see if it was still spinning, and then adjusting the speed of the boat. At 0.8 mph it always has a perfect spin.

What I DO NOT like about the Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator: The top scale, marked in large numerals, is knots-per-hour. Under that, in smaller numerals, is a miles-per-hour scale. The mph graduations are too far apart. The mph scale begins at 1.2 mph. So I had to do some interpolation to determine my speed of 0.8 mph. The next time I am on a lake with no current or wind, I will use the GPS to mark and calibrate the mph scale on the Luhr-Jensen.

The paddlewheel on my transducer usually was close to the speed indicated by the Luhr-Jensen; but not always... I think that the angle the boat is moving across or with the current, or moss getting wrapped on the paddlewheel makes it less accurate; but the Luhr-Jensen troll speed indicator is always right on. We went 2 for 2 for springers (15 and 17 lbs). I believe that always keeping the ideal speed helped.