.270 WSM vs. .308 Help me decide...

[Nick Myron]

I’m looking to buy a new hunting rifle. Trying to find something that I can have a keep for a long time and be able to do all my hunting with. (Deer, Elk, Antelope, Black Bear, Cougar, even Coyotes).
I want a gun that I can shoot long range (500 yds) accurately. Those types of shots would only be once in a blue moon considering where I hunt, but I am trying to find a rifle/scope combination that will allow me to do so if need be and that I would feel comfortable with doing.

Im shooting a .270 Rem 700 now and has served me well for years. Ive been wanting a new rifle to replace this for a while, the .270 has done great in the past, but if I am going to get a new rifle I would like something with a little more stopping power (mainly this is only a concern for Elk).

Been looking at .270 WSM and .308, and was hoping I could get some input from some guys whom have experience with both. This will be my go to gun, and will be a light rifle (looking at the Tikka (T-3 Lite), Savage syn., or Browning X-bolt syn.). So recoil is an issue, I just want to make sure I can shoot at the range and not walk away with a black and blue shoulder. Going to have a Leupold VX-3L 4.5-15x50 on top and if all goes to plan have a elevation dial made by Leupold to match the ballistics of the gun.

So, in regards to accuracy, recoil, ballistics, any personal experience etc. to the above…

Any input, comments or advice on which to choose?

Thanks guys.

Nick.

[thefishslayer]

Originally Posted by Nick Myron

I’m looking to buy a new hunting rifle. Trying to find something that I can have a keep for a long time and be able to do all my hunting with. (Deer, Elk, Antelope, Black Bear, Cougar, even Coyotes).
I want a gun that I can shoot long range (500 yds) accurately. Those types of shots would only be once in a blue moon considering where I hunt, but I am trying to find a rifle/scope combination that will allow me to do so if need be and that I would feel comfortable with doing.

Im shooting a .270 Rem 700 now and has served me well for years. Ive been wanting a new rifle to replace this for a while, the .270 has done great in the past, but if I am going to get a new rifle I would like something with a little more stopping power (mainly this is only a concern for Elk).

Been looking at .270 WSM and .308, and was hoping I could get some input from some guys whom have experience with both. This will be my go to gun, and will be a light rifle (looking at the Tikka (T-3 Lite), Savage syn., or Browning X-bolt syn.). So recoil is an issue, I just want to make sure I can shoot at the range and not walk away with a black and blue shoulder. Going to have a Leupold VX-3L 4.5-15x50 on top and if all goes to plan have a elevation dial made by Leupold to match the ballistics of the gun.

So, in regards to accuracy, recoil, ballistics, any personal experience etc. to the above…

Any input, comments or advice on which to choose?

Thanks guys.

Nick.

270 WSM cartridges are 40 bucks a box

[Nick Myron]

Originally Posted by thefishslayer

270 WSM cartridges are 40 bucks a box

Forgot to mention, a buddy of mine loads (and I am learning how to do so as well ), so I dont purchase factory ammo so the cost per box is'nt too much of a concern..and I do know that the choice of bullets for the 270 WSM is not as comprehensive as other calibers but I think what is available should be adequate for my needs..

[Tony270WSM]

The WSM packs quite a bit more power than the 308, can extend the range on elk at least 100 yards farther.

[thefishslayer]

Originally Posted by Nick Myron

Forgot to mention, a buddy of mine loads (and I am learning how to do so as well ), so I dont purchase factory ammo so the cost per box is'nt too much of a concern..and I do know that the choice of bullets for the 270 WSM is not as comprehensive as other calibers but I think what is available should be adequate for my needs..

i was thinking of purchasing a 270 WSM, and then it happened. I held the Tikka

[Santiam338]

The 270 WSM is not all that much of a step up from your 270...I seriously doubt you could tell any difference in the field...My 270 pushes 140's close enough to 3100 to call it that...

I decided that I didn't need the 270 version of the short mag and went with the 300 WSM instead...At least with the 180's you will see a bit of difference at 500 yards,at least with elk....

[wapiteaser]

I would get the 270 WSM. You can load it down in bullet weight and shoot rats and varmints or load it up and bang the bulls out there at 450-500. Getting set up to reload isn't much of a problem. Saves lots of money and lets you dial your rifle in. My 270 WSM is my only gun right now. Does everything I want it to do.

[baltz526]

every hunter should have an elk rifle and a deer rifle. you have a great deer rifle, why buy another great deer rifle.

[Oregon-Jet]

308 some day only gov rounds will be had.....

[kilchisfisher]

Originally Posted by baltz526

every hunter should have an elk rifle and a deer rifle. you have a great deer rifle, why buy another great deer rifle.

Why pass up the opportunity to have two great rifles?



Disclaimer: I'm a fan of the .270 Winchester in a 24 inch barrel.

[Nick Myron]

Im trying to end up with a rifle that can do it all well. Im investing a lot in a quality scope because I really want a quality optic and have seen what a difference one can make. So because I cant afford two really nice scopes (and want quality over quantity) I will have it on top of my main hunting rifle, whose caliber is yet to be determined. Sounds like opinions are swinging both ways which was as expected but that the .270 WSM will be a harder hitter. Hows the recoil on the guys who are shooting the wsm compared to the 308?

keep the comments coming

[red_randall]

The 270 WSM is a great gun. I've got a browning A-bolt 270 WSM. It kicked like a mule out of the box. Being a bit sensitive to recoil (a BIG flincher), I slapped a limbsaver buttpad on it. It tamed it right down - not just managable, but about equal to my 22-250. Been happy ever since.

[Hard Cast]

Originally Posted by baltz526

every hunter should have an elk rifle and a deer rifle. you have a great deer rifle, why buy another great deer rifle.

[Dan360]

If you want a 500 yard caliber for anything from antelope to elk, I don't think anything less than 30 caliber is appropriate. This is why.....

30 caliber bullets will carry more freight downrange with the heavier bullets and have a wider cross-section than anything in 270.

More bullet offerings are available in 30 caliber. Anything from 110 to 220 grs.

Bullet performance at close range with high-speed calibers is less reliable.

I would suggest an 8mm or 33 caliber, but recoil starts to increase quite a bit. I suggest 30 caliber because it carries plenty of energy downrange to kill elk. It can also be driven quite fast with lighter bullets in a magnum cartridge.

A 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag can shoot 150 gr bullets in a 3200 FPS range, which is PLENTY fast and flat for distant antelope. 180 gr bullets in a 2900 to 3000 fps range also shoot plenty flat but hit quite a bit harder and pentrate like gangbusters. 165 gr bullets at 3100 fps can work wonders as well if properly constructed for the purpose you intend.

Will the 270 WSM work? Sure it will. Will the 308 Winchester work? If you understand its trajectory, sure it will. Why not combine the two into one? a 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag will shoot flat like the 270 WSM and offer the bullet range of the 308.

[Newbs]

I inherited a .300 Weatherby a few years back from my father. I have used several different deer and elk guns over the years...30-30, 270 .308 .30-06 .338 mag, 45-70 .444 marlin...they were all good calibers and I enjoyed them all.

Since I started shooting the .300 Weatherby I haven't looked back. I can load it down for deer. It will reach out as far as I can see for antelope and I can warm it up a little for elk. It's one of the most comfortable and versitle rounds I have ever shot.

But...if I had to choose between the two calibers you have selected, I think the .270 WSM would be more versitle than the .308. Especially if you handload.

Good luck.

[pharmseller]

Originally Posted by critrgitr

If you feel you must have a rifle that shoots an all around caliber, you already have one of the best all around calibers for hunting in Oregon. However; If you are looking for a flatter shooting "all around" caliber rifle, then the .270 WSM is hands down the winner of those three. The .270 and .308 have almost identical ballistics so you are not gaining (or changing) anything getting the .308. Checking Remington's ballistic charts, using 150 grain bullets for each, the muzzle V of the .270 is 2850, the .308 is 2820 and the .270 WSM is 3160. But the big difference is the Ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards. .270 = 639, .308 = 810, and the .270 WSM is 1748!

I ran these numbers through my ballistics program and got different results. The .308 ran closer to 1200 ft/lbs and the 270 WSM was closer to 1600 ft/lbs, both at 500 yards. There's not an animal on this planet that will notice the difference in energy, given proper placement.

That being said, I vote in favor of the good old .30-06, and here's why:
I load 180 grain Nosler Partitions in my Weatherby Ultralight .30-06 to get around 2900 ft/sec at the muzzle. According to my ballistics program, this load generates 1756 ft/lbs at 500 yards. Compare that to your other choices.

You have more bullet options for your reloader friend than you will ever need. You can load it down for small game, or up for big animals. Every store in the world that sells ammunition has .30-06 on the shelf.

Recoil is very manageable even with very light rifles such as mine.

If you like the idea of a magnum, I understand. For hunting anything on this continent except the big nasty bears up north, the .30-06 can do everything you need.


P

[baltz526]

30-06 180gr at 2900fps. i do not believe it can be done in a safe load. proof test load pressure maybe

[Don Fischer]

No rifle will make you shoot at 500 yds more accurately. Some cartridges are easier to shoot due to reduced recoil though. Shooting accurately is a function of practice!

If I had a 270 Win, I'd just get another rifle in something with a 20" barrel and low power scope for hunting in a different type terrain. I really like the 308 win.

[hrbassin]

Obviously the only way to find your caliber is to set a deer up at about 100 yards, shoot it with all the calibers you're considering, and then ask it which was most effective.

Find a rifle you can shoot accurately, and then shoot it accurately.



oh, and a biased lean towards the 30-06, based on ammo price, availability, the ability to load for all sorts of hunting situations, and proven effectiveness.

Mark

[Hard Cast]

Originally Posted by pharmseller

I ran these numbers through my ballistics program and got different results. The .308 ran closer to 1200 ft/lbs and the 270 WSM was closer to 1600 ft/lbs, both at 500 yards. There's not an animal on this planet that will notice the difference in energy, given proper placement.

That being said, I vote in favor of the good old .30-06, and here's why:
I load 180 grain Nosler Partitions in my Weatherby Ultralight .30-06 to get around 2900 ft/sec at the muzzle. According to my ballistics program, this load generates 1756 ft/lbs at 500 yards. Compare that to your other choices.

You have more bullet options for your reloader friend than you will ever need. You can load it down for small game, or up for big animals. Every store in the world that sells ammunition has .30-06 on the shelf.

Recoil is very manageable even with very light rifles such as mine.

If you like the idea of a magnum, I understand. For hunting anything on this continent except the big nasty bears up north, the .30-06 can do everything you need.


P

[pharmseller]

Originally Posted by baltz526

30-06 180gr at 2900fps. i do not believe it can be done in a safe load. proof test load pressure maybe

Federal Premium High Energy advertises 2880 ft/sec on the box (180 gr. Nosler).

It can be done within SAAMI specs.


P

[pharmseller]

Originally Posted by critrgitr

Pharmseller,
I just logged on to Remington’s ballistics page and plugged in 150 grain bullets for the three calibers that the OP what discussing. http://www.remington.com/products/am...on/ballistics/ I have no idea how accurate their information is. However, even using your own data, The 270 WSM is significantly more potent than the others. I think 400 ft/lbs of energy IS significant at 500 yards. 50 ft/lbs probably not but 400 is. It is hard to dispute that of the three calibers he is looking at, the WSM is ballistically superior. Personally I have no interest in any of them because I am not a “compromise” type of guy. I think it is fun to own lots of guns – each one designed for a specific purpose. For the past year or so I have been studying ballisticts charts since I got in to reloading and I have come to the conclusion that for me, I have owned guns that are more “duel sport” rather than very efficient calibers. As a result I sold all of my guns (including my 30.06’s) and have begun the process of replacing them with calibers that I consider to be very efficient for specific work. I am not though buying guns yet as I “need” (<-- that’s how I worded it to my wife) several more guns. After my 5th rifle/caliber is purchased, I MAY buy another .30 cal again just for fun shooting at the range for long distance. That gun will most likely be a 300 Win Mag. I know this kind of talk seems almost sacrilegious to most folks since 95% of hunters use 30 cal rifles. But I have come to the conclusion that most of us old times purchased guns based on what was most available or what does everyone else shoot, or what has killed more animals, etc?, rather than focusing on what bullet size, construction, speed, etc will work most effectively for specific animals.

I select the rifle based on terrain more than anything else. Thick cover = close shots, so I use a .348 Winchester for deer and elk.
Open country, more opportunity for farther shots, I use my .30-06.

I would love to have the time to do all the stuff you are experimenting with - it sounds like a blast.


P

[pharmseller]

Originally Posted by hrbassin

Obviously the only way to find your caliber is to set a deer up at about 100 yards, shoot it with all the calibers you're considering, and then ask it which was most effective.

Find a rifle you can shoot accurately, and then shoot it accurately.



oh, and a biased lean towards the 30-06, based on ammo price, availability, the ability to load for all sorts of hunting situations, and proven effectiveness.

Mark

Mark, I like how you think.

P

[WSU]

Originally Posted by critrgitr

Personally I have no interest in any of them because I am not a “compromise” type of guy. I think it is fun to own lots of guns – each one designed for a specific purpose. For the past year or so I have been studying ballisticts charts since I got in to reloading and I have come to the conclusion that for me, I have owned guns that are more “duel sport” rather than very efficient calibers. As a result I sold all of my guns (including my 30.06’s) and have begun the process of replacing them with calibers that I consider to be very efficient for specific work. I am not though buying guns yet as I “need” (<-- that’s how I worded it to my wife) several more guns. After my 5th rifle/caliber is purchased, I MAY buy another .30 cal again just for fun shooting at the range for long distance. That gun will most likely be a 300 Win Mag. I know this kind of talk seems almost sacrilegious to most folks since 95% of hunters use 30 cal rifles. But I have come to the conclusion that most of us old times purchased guns based on what was most available or what does everyone else shoot, or what has killed more animals, etc?, rather than focusing on what bullet size, construction, speed, etc will work most effectively for specific animals.

What exactly do you mean by "very efficient for specific work?" I'm curious what your idea is and why a specific caliber for each type of game is needed?

[huntercope]

Originally Posted by Nick Myron

I’m looking to buy a new hunting rifle. Trying to find something that I can have a keep for a long time and be able to do all my hunting with. (Deer, Elk, Antelope, Black Bear, Cougar, even Coyotes).
I want a gun that I can shoot long range (500 yds) accurately. Those types of shots would only be once in a blue moon considering where I hunt, but I am trying to find a rifle/scope combination that will allow me to do so if need be and that I would feel comfortable with doing.

Im shooting a .270 Rem 700 now and has served me well for years. Ive been wanting a new rifle to replace this for a while, the .270 has done great in the past, but if I am going to get a new rifle I would like something with a little more stopping power (mainly this is only a concern for Elk).

Been looking at .270 WSM and .308, and was hoping I could get some input from some guys whom have experience with both. This will be my go to gun, and will be a light rifle (looking at the Tikka (T-3 Lite), Savage syn., or Browning X-bolt syn.). So recoil is an issue, I just want to make sure I can shoot at the range and not walk away with a black and blue shoulder. Going to have a Leupold VX-3L 4.5-15x50 on top and if all goes to plan have a elevation dial made by Leupold to match the ballistics of the gun.

So, in regards to accuracy, recoil, ballistics, any personal experience etc. to the above…

Any input, comments or advice on which to choose?

Thanks guys.

Nick.

Go with the 270 WSM!!! I have a browning a-bolt equipped with a Leupold VX-III 3.5-10 and absolutely love it!! I have been shooting it for fun at 400 yards lately and it has about 18-20 inches of drop sighted in at 200 yards. The recoil is not too bad and i have a stock pad. I have also taken 2 elk with it at 260 yards and they did not go more than 10 yards from where they were hit using a 130 gr TSX. My dad has also taken a elk with it. Great overall flat shooting gun in my opinion. While some ammo can exceed $40 a box, you can still find some for under $30. Oh and once i get my reloading set up in the next few weeks I plan on getting a turret for my scope also. will let you know how that goes.

[baltz526]

Originally Posted by pharmseller

Federal Premium High Energy advertises 2880 ft/sec on the box (180 gr. Nosler).

It can be done within SAAMI specs.


P

so give us the load we all want this magic

[chromebright]

Originally Posted by huntercope

Go with the 270 WSM!!! I have a browning a-bolt equipped with a Leupold VX-III 3.5-10 and absolutely love it!!

Have the same set up. Browning A-Bolt SS in 270 WSM with a leupold VX-III 3.5 -10. By far the best gun I've ever owned and I have owned quite a few. It's the only gun I shoot anymore for big game.

I shoot Federal Premium 140gr Accubonds and the gun loves them. Although at $40+ a box anymore no way I would **** a lot with them. Good thing I mostly archery hunt anymore

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by pharmseller

I select the rifle based on terrain more than anything else. Thick cover = close shots, so I use a .348 Winchester for deer and elk.
Open country, more opportunity for farther shots, I use my .30-06.

I would love to have the time to do all the stuff you are experimenting with - it sounds like a blast.


P

Your deer and elk are obviously not being properly shot!

[Norski]

I shot a 7MM for many a year 15, sold it, went to a 30/06, shot it for 5 years, sold it, went to a .308 drooped 3 deer, & 3 Elk, sold it, and the day I sold it, with in 30 minutes, I had a .300WSM, and to this day, it well be handed down to one of my grandsons, they can fight over it, I well be toast, but to get the job done, .270wsm, good gun, .300 good gun, but for what you want, and not have to walk 5 miles to find you dead deer/elk go with the .300WSM, good scope, shoot 100 to 300 rounds through it, get the feel, and there is nothing out there you well not drop, with good placement of bullet, from Deer/Elk/Antelope/bear/Crackhead.
Like I said, one of my grandsons well end up with a .300 & the other .270, and the rest I lost on a shipment to Norway.

[Norski]

My be some day you well get to go moose hunting, the guides well not even think of taking you if you don't have a .300 or better, go with the .300WSM what ever you shoot it well history.

[mstarck]

Originally Posted by baltz526

so give us the load we all want this magic

Baltz, with all due respect i have noticed that the factory loads are VERY hard to duplicate these days.i was trying to work up some 270 loads for my brother and the factory stuff was kickin my butt.you know they use some proprietary powder that us loaders can not buy.i don't know if you have noticed this or not.i have read a lot of your posts and i know you are very knowledgable in firearms and reloading.i do enjoy reloading and testing the ammo, but at some point i would like to know what there magic powder is.

mike s.

[baltz526]

ok, i'll start a new thread.

[ehunter]

I have a question to get some of the factory numbers don't they test out of a 24 or 24 inch barrel as well?

[Hard Cast]

Originally Posted by WSU

What exactly do you mean by "very efficient for specific work?" I'm curious what your idea is and why a specific caliber for each type of game is needed?

[pharmseller]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Your deer and elk are obviously not being properly shot!

Ha! Good one.
This fella went down in '08 to a .30-06 at 175 yards, lasered. The argument over being properly shot was brief and one-sided.



This guy went to his reward in '07 courtesy of a Winchester Silvertip with a diameter of 0.348".



I prefer to carry the .348, but in open country I'm at too much of a disadvantage with open sights.


P

[4th_Point]

I'd skip the .270WSM and .308 and get a T3 Lite 300WSM. Buy a Limbsaver and you'll be fine. If you don't mind a long action, get the 300WM.

[4th_Point]

Regarding the hot '06 loads...

Some longrange hunters and tactical shooters are getting magnum velocities with their '06 rifles, but with slow burning powder and 28-30" barrels.

[Quaka Wacka]

Originally Posted by Nick Myron

I’m looking to buy a new hunting rifle. Trying to find something that I can have a keep for a long time and be able to do all my hunting with. (Deer, Elk, Antelope, Black Bear, Cougar, even Coyotes).
I want a gun that I can shoot long range (500 yds) accurately. Those types of shots would only be once in a blue moon considering where I hunt, but I am trying to find a rifle/scope combination that will allow me to do so if need be and that I would feel comfortable with doing.

Im shooting a .270 Rem 700 now and has served me well for years. Ive been wanting a new rifle to replace this for a while, the .270 has done great in the past, but if I am going to get a new rifle I would like something with a little more stopping power (mainly this is only a concern for Elk).

Been looking at .270 WSM and .308, and was hoping I could get some input from some guys whom have experience with both. This will be my go to gun, and will be a light rifle (looking at the Tikka (T-3 Lite), Savage syn., or Browning X-bolt syn.). So recoil is an issue, I just want to make sure I can shoot at the range and not walk away with a black and blue shoulder. Going to have a Leupold VX-3L 4.5-15x50 on top and if all goes to plan have a elevation dial made by Leupold to match the ballistics of the gun.

So, in regards to accuracy, recoil, ballistics, any personal experience etc. to the above…

Any input, comments or advice on which to choose?

Thanks guys.

Nick.

A 270WSM won't give you much more than your .270 already does. And unless your very sensitive to recoil, your limiting yourself with the 308, especially compared to the other options. A .30 caliber of 06' or larger will do everything you wanted quite well. I'm partial to a 300WSM, but I doubt a deer could tell the difference between that, and an 06'.

[WSU]

critrgitr,

I can see what you mean, especially when talking about such a large spectrum of game. I don't think a good argument can be made that my .300 is the ideal gopher gun. I also agree that no one caliber will be ideal for what the poster wants, i.e. coyotes to elk. Where we disagree is on larger game such as deer, elk, and bear. I think something in the .270 to .300 range would be perfectly adequate for all three, especially under normal conditions.

I guess my rambling point is that I can agree with what you are saying, especially from a point of view like yours where you are wanting to own lots of guns for various reasons. For someone like Nick, I would pick a .270 to .300 caliber and be aware that your coyote may have a very large hole it in.

[Chesapeake]

I got myself a 270wsm for the task you laid out.

Why:

Because I wanted a light (about 8lbs fully outfitted) rifle and after owning a 300 win mag for many years I wanted something I could enjoy shooting, and wouldnt mind wearing out a barrel on.

My 300 was 10 1/4 lbs and I would consider myself decent at handling some recoil, but by about round 20 in a range session I wasnt having much fun.

The 270 though is a fun to shoot.

My biggest decideing factor was less than 20# recoil. That seems to be about my threshold. Any more and there is a cumulative affect and I can only take so many rounds.

[James in Idaho]

Save your money, have your .270 reamed out to .270 AI. Put a really good scope on it and go shoot anything in North America.

As far as moose, well if someday I show up in a moose camp I really can't see a guide not taking me because I'm carrying a .270, I already KNOW it works on moose. Reality I'd take my .35 Whelen (the .30-06 was camping with my dad in NM at the time), which I was just too lazy to grab the morning that I shot my moose with my .270. In my defense I have since replaced the stock on the .35 (too short, too heavy) and I carry the .35 a lot now. But it's not a 500 yard rifle, I'm not a 500 yard shooter either.

[Nick Myron]

Thank you gentlemen for the input very helpful hearing everyone's thoughts on the matter. As for what I have decided, after hearing all the different opinions here in combination with my own research have decided that the .270 WSM is what I will be purchasing. It has the balistic characteristics that I want (flat shooting with a substantial increase in energy over what I have now), doesn't have the recoil of a 30 cal (and should be much less with a limbsaver pad) so shooting a day at the range is no big deal, along with it being a short action I think it should be a great fit for my needs.

Thanks again.

[Hunt'nFish]

What do you have now Nick? (ok, re-read your post.....270 rem700)
Personally if I were you, I'd be looking to go bigger or smaller that what I already have.

You don't strike me as a .308 sorta guy. From talking w/ you out hunting, you strike me as very similar to myself.
Long range and powerful. No room for a .308win.

So you know my pick.
But keep in mind that the 7mmWSM has more case capacity that both the .270WSM and .300WSM, so from a reloaders stand point I'd pick the 7mmWSM for my medium caliber and add a big 300 or .338 ultra down the road a few years.
Hunt'nFish

PS: after thinking about this a bit I say keep what you have, and add a BIG rifle for the elk.
Your .270 is just fine for the medium game. I have a .280 Rem and a 7mmWSM and to be honest, the .280 does everything my short mag would do. Except elk, that's what I have the .338Ultra for.

So IMO, keep the .270 and go BIG....REAL BIG.
Hunt'nFish

[leadlobber]

you're wasting your money buying another 270. get a 30 cal you can load from 100-220 grain bullets. the 270 is a great gun. im just wondering why you want to buy another one.