2009 American Field Nat Ch at Ames .....

PacificPointer · 02-11-2009, 01:10 PM

Its already under way and the Oregon dog was picked up at 1 hour 40 minutes........... For people wanting to bring Pointers into the PNW start yor search here.............

2009_National Championship_@_Ames

rimrock · 02-11-2009, 01:24 PM

No repeat this year for Wild agin. Looks like the benchmark is 5 without any bobbles. Weather sucks as always

So do ya think one of the setters will take it this year? Go long-hairs!

PacificPointer · 02-11-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrock

No repeat this year for Wild agin. Looks like the benchmark is 5 without any bobbles. Weather sucks as always

So do ya think one of the setters will take it this year? Go long-hairs!

I'd like to see a setter finish. Lou G had one run a few years ago and lost him, he was 1 1/2 miles away when they found him.

I want some west coast dogs to finish with more than 2-3 finds.

Lamplighter · 02-11-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PacificPointer

Its already under way and the Oregon dog was picked up at 1 hour 40 minutes...........

Do you any links or explanations for those of us that don't yet have the vocabulary, but are interested by-standers ?

jetjockey · 02-11-2009, 05:56 PM

Field trials are crazy. I had no idea guys took gun dogs so much more serious on the east coast. My brother and I just got a couple brits. They came from GA where I now live. Its easy for me to find pro trainers within 200 miles of my house but pretty dificult for him to find a good pro trainer near Tacoma. Plus, the guys in the North West charge and arm and a leg. I can't wait to run my brit in NSTRA events and maybe even have her be an all ages dog. Id really prefer a NSTRA dog that I can come back home to WA and hunt pheasants with though...

rimrock · 02-12-2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Do you any links or explanations for those of us that don't yet have the vocabulary, but are interested by-standers ?

One thing about trials is all the terms...yikes.

So keep asking away. I'm still learning it too.

At Nationals the course the dogs run is 3hrs (most trails are 1hr - Nationals is crazy long...wow, awesome dogs) so if a dog is "picked up" at 1:30. That means the handler chose to remove the dog from judging at 1hr and 30 minutes into the 3 hrs course.

If the term was "taken up" that means the judge asked the handler to remove the dog.

rimrock · 02-12-2009, 07:57 AM

A Whippoorwill vs a Miller dog this morning...that might be good. It's amazing how many Whippoorwill dogs are at Nationals again! Some kind of program those guys got going.

Go long-hairs!

Yea, at least finish.

chukarchaser · 02-12-2009, 07:57 AM

One of the reasons a handler will pick up a dog is that a 3 hour race takes so much out of a big/hard running field trial dog that the handler doesn't want to take the risk (injury, burnout, etc) if he/she knows the dog isn't going to place high. These trials aren't like hunting for 3 hours... these dogs flat out get with it for 3 straight hours!

Absolutely amazing to watch, these dogs are the best of the best.

CC

Lamplighter · 02-12-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrock

One thing about trials is all the terms...yikes.

So keep asking away. I'm still learning it too.

At Nationals the course the dogs run is 3hrs (most trails are 1hr - Nationals is crazy long...wow, awesome dogs) so if a dog is "picked up" at 1:30. That means the handler chose to remove the dog from judging at 1hr and 30 minutes into the 3 hrs course.

If the term was "taken up" that means the judge asked the handler to remove the dog.

Thanks RR. OK, here's me asking, what do "sustained an absence after" and "stop to flight" mean in the brace below:

Shell Creek Coin had two finds in the first 30 minutes; sustained an absence after, and Steve Hurdle called it at :86. Whippoorwill Wild Agin had ten finds and a stop to flight, and finished the 3 hours.

PacificPointer · 02-12-2009, 08:20 AM

At field trials you have a person who will ride and take notes/record the event then post usally in the American Field mag (which comes every week, best deal for read material)

So, some of these guys use different way of describing what went on.

"Stand to flush" would be that the dog stood still to the flush without making a move/chasing.

About the comment of AllAge, Nstra IMO has nothing anywhere near a ALL AGE race. Half of Oregon's chukar dogs probably run a Shooting Dog range compared to back east. We have the terrain.areas to let the dogs go big.

A true AA dog dosen't care about you, only finding covies, and standing his/her birds until he handler gets there.

PacificPointer · 02-12-2009, 08:35 AM

Take a look at the build of some of these dogs, they are just so so above and beyond the typical po-dunk hunt'in dog. Also the fact that many of these dogs are owned by rich people, trained exclusively per event and by pro handlers.

IMO the Pointers guys do it right, go to a praries with 30-70 dogs and come back with 2-10. Thats why the Miller dogs ruled for so long, if the dog didn't cut it, it didn't "become a hunting dog"

rimrock · 02-12-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Thanks RR. OK, here's me asking, what do "sustained an absence after" and "stop to flight" mean in the brace below:

Shell Creek Coin had two finds in the first 30 minutes; sustained an absence after, and Steve Hurdle called it at :86. Whippoorwill Wild Agin had ten finds and a stop to flight, and finished the 3 hours.

"stop to flight" is what pacificpointer said...when a bird flushes on it's own (not bumped into the air by the dog) if the dog sees it in flight and than stops his run neither moving or chasing the bird is "stop to flight". It's a good thing.

"sustained an absence" is when the dog basicly has run off too far and has lost contact with the handler. The handler will "called it" with means he can begin locating his dog with a radio tracker device or some other means. In other words the dog is lost.

rimrock · 02-12-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PacificPointer

Take a look at the build of some of these dogs, they are just so so above and beyond the typical po-dunk hunt'in dog. Also the fact that many of these dogs are owned by rich people, trained exclusively per event and by pro handlers.

IMO the Pointers guys do it right, go to a praries with 30-70 dogs and come back with 2-10. Thats why the Miller dogs ruled for so long, if the dog didn't cut it, it didn't "become a hunting dog"

Miller sure had a way of "picking" his keeper dogs, didn't he.

chukarchaser · 02-12-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrock

Miller sure had a way of "picking" his keeper dogs, didn't he.

Yep... so did Bob Wehle.

CC

PacificPointer · 02-12-2009, 03:26 PM

The dog Black Range has been getting some good press. I'm rooting for of course Miller's On Line (being I have a 2 dogs bred really close and owned a MOL dog before)
Also I'm rooting for Phillips White Twist as Nathan Phillips is carrying the Miller torch onward.

And it looks like we have one PNW dog left out of Idaho, I root for him also. Anyone check the slide shows and see the pouring rain pics?????

PacificPointer · 02-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chukarchaser

Yep... so did Bob Wehle.

CC

For those that dont know who Bob Wehle was. His surname backwards was the "Elhew" trademark........

Too bad the guys he handed it off too haven't kept it up, then again he was very wealthy to begin with.

PacificPointer · 02-13-2009, 09:00 AM

Only two dogs have finsihed the 3 hrs so far and one is a former Nat Ch...

PacificPointer · 02-14-2009, 02:27 PM

Another dog finished 3 hrs 4 finds check the build of the Pointer.

A dog I may onsider breeding my Pacific Miller's Charm to.
Phillips White Twist, lost at 48 min.

rimrock · 02-14-2009, 10:08 PM

I'm glad to see Jetsetter finish and run well too.

I'm starting to wonder if the 5 Finds is going to hold up? Still any of these dogs left could have their "day". All the dogs at Ames are there for a reason..they are goooood dogs! Hope the weather stays decent.

PacificPointer · 02-14-2009, 11:22 PM

There are still some awesome dogs left to run.

PacificPointer · 02-16-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrock

Hope the weather stays decent.

The slideshow looks like they had some good weather. A few southern belles also.

For those that dont know, you can rent horses at the event and follow in the gallery. On my to do list.

jetjockey · 02-19-2009, 03:15 PM

These dogs are all amazing dogs, but who would want one for a hunting dog? AA dogs run so huge, and they aren't running for you. If your a hard core field trialer then I'm all for it. But for the average person who wants to hunt, these aint hunting dogs. How many people actually hunt from a horse? Thats what it takes to keep up with these things. IMO NSTRA dogs are better hunting dogs. They stay closer, hunt for the handler, and get scored on retrieving. All Ages dogs don't have to retrieve a thing....

PacificPointer · 02-20-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjockey

These dogs are all amazing dogs, but who would want one for a hunting dog? AA dogs run so huge, and they aren't running for you. If your a hard core field trialer then I'm all for it. But for the average person who wants to hunt, these aint hunting dogs. How many people actually hunt from a horse? Thats what it takes to keep up with these things. IMO NSTRA dogs are better hunting dogs. They stay closer, hunt for the handler, and get scored on retrieving. All Ages dogs don't have to retrieve a thing....

A AA dog will produce NSTRA dogs, very very few NSTRA dog will EVER produce a AA dog much less a SD dog.

And why retrieve in a 40 acre field on pen raise birds, actually birds that were held in the pocket of the shooter and droped in front of the dog

Yeah thats something to put a CH on, oh yeah American Field doesn't recognize NSTRA anymore.

nunyet · 02-20-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjockey

These dogs are all amazing dogs, but who would want one for a hunting dog? AA dogs run so huge, and they aren't running for you. If you're a hard core field trialer then I'm all for it. But for the average person who wants to hunt, these aint hunting dogs. How many people actually hunt from a horse? Thats what it takes to keep up with these things. IMO NSTRA dogs are better hunting dogs. They stay closer, hunt for the handler, and get scored on retrieving. All Ages dogs don't have to retrieve a thing....

I agree with you these dogs would not make a dogs we could foot hunt with and much of my enjoyment comes from the relationship with my dogs . These big running dogs are bred to run and find birds not to be your buddy.

But when I have had the chance to watch these dogs do what they were put on this earth to do , which is to run big and find birds I feel something that is hard to describe. If I had the resources I would love to participate and my wife loves Tennessee Walkers and single footers.

I get the same feeling watching a great field trial lab, springer,or pointer or my own very common hunting dogs.

Its all good.

nunyet

PacificPointer · 02-21-2009, 08:02 AM

Congrats to Lester's Snowatch

Out of Miller's Date Line X a litter mate female to CH Sir Lancelot.

jetjockey · 03-20-2009, 07:31 AM

Pacific.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but 99% of most hunters have no use for an AA dog. When I'm hunting, I want my dog to find every bird in the field that I'm in. And I want the dog to retrieve every bird I hunt in the field. IMO no other trials reproduce an actual hunting situation like NSTRA... The breeder of my Brit has a dog running 1 hour AA trials. It came from Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) the #1 NSTRA dog of all time. I don't like hunting over that Brit because it runs SO big. Yes, its fun to watch, and its a great dog when were following it on horseback. But his other Brits are far superior when you get them in a field you can actually foot hunt. His AA brit is a handfull and will leave the field in a heartbeat if you let it. Its just too much work keeping him rained in. Now, watching a good bird dog and handler team hunt is a thing of beauty. I love to watch dog hunt for its owner/handler. Don't get me wrong, like Nunyet said, its fun to watch those big running dogs go. They really are amazing. But I much prefer to watch a hunting dog that doesn't hunt for itself... And thats exactly what those huge running pointers do..

Don Fischer · 03-20-2009, 11:19 AM

Something to keep in mind is that AF breeders, in fact AKC trial breeders, would not produce NSTRA dogs if they could help it. They would produce only AA type dogs. I find it strange that they turn their nose up at the people that buy their dogs! NSTRA is only a game for people that for whatever reason won't go the extra mile. I also doubt that no NSTRA bred dog could run in AF or AKC, hog wash! It boils down to training and breeding. Many AF and AKC dogs never have what it takes. Many that do are sold to NSTRA people and we never find out about them.

There's flaw's with NSTRA too, they need to grow up. At some point they really should have a broke dog stake to prove their dogs can take the training. And they need to change the scoring system so that duffer's can't come up with a Ch title.

On another dog site, I started a post about great dog's we've got to watch. Years ago I was at Sauvies Island at a Springer fun trial and watched Nat Ch Greenbriar Buckshot, 2x Nat Ch Dewfield Brickclose Flint and Nat Am Ch Misty Muffet all run on the same day, they were splinded to say the least. Anyway a NSTRA guy got on and said something to the effect of, big deal, I run against Nat Ch's all the time and beat them. Some people really need to pull their head out of the sand!

The truth is most NSTRA dogs, maybe all, could not make it around a broke dog course, much less place, because of the degree of their training, of lack of. But the Broke dogs can easily compete in NSTRA.

rimrock · 03-20-2009, 11:40 AM

Don is on target again.

NSTRA is fine for what it is, no that's not a knock per se, it just means you don't really need a really polished dog to place. First time I saw a true AA, national level dog...I thought HOLY CRAP. We'd all love to even foot hunt behind these dogs.

Now the truth of the matter too IMHO, an true AA dog is rare. My setter is breed out of a national AA line, but he is no AA dog. Just doesn't have "it"; he's a fine hunting dog and fine at NSTRA. But it would take a better trainer than me to get him to AF or a broke dog stake for one. Sad becasue he has such great run in him.

jetjockey · 03-21-2009, 12:39 PM

I think the thing to remember is that there is a difference between a hunting dog, and a field trial dog. My Brit came from an AA ABC runner up. She runs BIG. She is gonna be with one of the best Brittany trainers in the country this summer. So far, she has shown she has everything her sire had at her age, and more. BUT, I don't want her to be strictly a field trial dog. I dont want to see her only at trials because shes with a pro trainer all the time. The breeder, who is a very good friend of mine, is running one of his males in AA stakes and 2 of his females in NSTRA. He is begging me to turn her into an AA dog because she is showing so well. But, I want a hunting buddy who sleeps at the end of my bed at night. To have an AA FC you basically give your dog up to a pro trainer and never see them again. Unless who have the ability to do it yourself, something 99% of people don't have the time or ability to do..... You can hunt over my friends NSTRA dogs, but not his AA dog, it just runs too big. Now, when he goes on point he is solid as a rock, but so are the 2 NSTRA brits. The AA dog is from one of his NSTRA females and Nolan's Last Bullet. Both NSTRA dogs. My pup is from the same female, and the AA ABC runner up. IVe had the opportunity to hunt behind all of them. And they all impressed the heck out of me. But for hunting purposes, I much prefer to hunt over the NSTRA dogs. And yes, they are extremely polished and broke. Maybe not broke to fall, but definatly broke to shot. They retrieve better then his AA dog as well. They won't hang with his AA dog in an AA field trail, but, how many of us actually field trail dogs? I agree with Don, I wish NSTRA required dogs to be fully broke. But that doesn't mean a fully broke dog can't run in NSTRA. They just won't get scored for it. If I had a dog that I was only field trialing, I would want an AA dog. If I wanted a hunting dog, id take a NSTRA dog that retrieves over an AA dog anyday. And Don is right, there are probably a lot of dogs that could be AA NFC's that we will never know how good they really are, and my Brit will be one of them. But, she will be sleeping on the end of my bed, and hunting with me every weekend. With the occasional NSTRA event for grins....