Black Bears and 25 06?

coyote.204 · 02-08-2009, 09:28 PM

What are your opinions of that?

ColtSauer375 · 02-08-2009, 10:18 PM

With good shot placement and the proper bullet (maybe 120 Gr. partition or something similar) it could be sufficient. That being said I think that the 25-06 is a little small for black bear. I have personally shot one with a 300 Win Mag and 180 Gr. partition and although taking out a lung and breaking a shoulder with a through and through shot the bear still managed to run 100 yards at darn near full speed. Preferably I would opt for something larger...

pythonwill · 02-08-2009, 10:54 PM

Thats what I plan on using this spring for bear, 120 nosler partition 36gr. IMR4895 2680fps. a mild load that my gun shoots very well. I am very confident that it will work fine.

Basshound · 02-09-2009, 05:32 AM

Its all about the shot placement. Just think, people stickem with arrows and it works. If you could, i would go bigger though. As mentioned above. I also use a 300wsm and those bears will still put up a good fight.

blacktail hunter · 02-09-2009, 06:49 AM

shot mine last year with my 243 95 grn balistic tip handloads @ 175yards it only went 40 yards before pileing upbullet took out both lungs then exited other side, so i think your 25 06 will do just fine..

Vandon16 · 02-09-2009, 07:05 AM

I'll be carrying my .243 w/ 100gr SGK handloads this season. Untill bow season. 25-06 will do just fine. It's all about the shot placement.

Although I wouldn't take longer distance shots with my .243. When i had my 300wsm I would hesitate to shoot out to longer distances.

Just think about the effective range you and your weapon are capable of. Never take an unethical shot. Hard to get rid of that gut wrenching feeling you get when you know you screwed up.

Good luck this season. Hope to see pictures if you are successful.

DogZilla15 · 02-09-2009, 07:15 AM

I'd pick the 115 gr Partition. You'll still get complete penetration and a bit more velocity.

Old Goat · 02-09-2009, 07:16 AM

If I were going to go out and buy a bear gun, the 25-06 would not be my choice. My choice would be a 338 win mag. You never know when you will run into a big one. Black bears can reach 600# and larger and size can be difficult to assess. Not common, but possible. Many shots are cross canyon in clear cuts. The 25-06 is a flat shooting gun, but lacks downrange punch. That said, if a 25-06 was the only gun I had, I'd use it. I think it is a perfect cougar gun. I have one on order. The reason I ordered a 25-06 is for its flat shooting and ideal optimum game weight statistics for cougar. But it is realistic that when calling for cougar that one could call in a bear. This will probably be a close range shot, where the 25-06 will be adequate. I also carry a 454 casull for up close and personal back up. Anything past 200 yards looks to be marginal. Most 25-06's wont stablize 120 grain bullets. 100-110 grains are more common good performers.

baltz526 · 02-09-2009, 07:55 AM

110gr accubond is a bullet i would try

Blowing Smoke · 02-09-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltz526

110gr accubond is a bullet i would try

I agree with this guy. Most Oregon bears I've seen live and dead are not that big or weigh that much. Yeh I know there are some bruisers out there, Hey your a varmint hunter you know where to hit them for lights out.......BS

Don Fischer · 02-09-2009, 08:46 AM

Keep in mind shot placement and bullet selection. I shot one in Montana years ago with a 140gr Sierra from a 7mm mag tha blew up in the fat under the skin. Lot of fat in there to get thru befor the bullet gets to vitals.

leadeyedbugger · 02-09-2009, 08:47 AM

If you read some of the older hunting books and especially the older nosler reloading manuals they considered the 257 to be one of the best deer/black bear guns around. 120 Grain partitions at about 3100 fps outta do the trick just fine.

Grantspastor · 02-09-2009, 09:06 AM

It will be fine....unless you hurt a bear and he runs off into the thick brush. Then it will seem like a peashooter. The years I lived in Alaska have given me a respectful perspective when it comes to Black Bears. In a given year in Alaska more people are hurt or killed by Black Bears than by Grizzlies. Granted, it's the odd bear that will attack...but even a small one can ruin your day. I'd probably use my .338...not that it's needed but because i have one

DogZilla15 · 02-09-2009, 09:06 AM

The one problem a person might run into with the 120 gr bullet is accuracy. Every barrel is different and the 1 in 10 twist of most .25 cal barrels is very marginal for stabilizing bullets that heavy. 1 in 9 would be a whole lot better. I did own a Ruger No 1 that would not stabilize big game hunting bullets....now it's someone elses problem....

Beamerfish · 02-09-2009, 09:14 AM

Will it kill one? Sure - with proper shot placement. Do I really want to go poking around thick brush looking for a bear that may or may not be killed if something doesn't go exactly right. That would be a big negatory on that one.

I've seen them fold like a house of cheap cards with a good shot, especially in the spring. However, they can also take a licking and keep on ticking for a good while when hit only in one lung or one shoulder.

Also they don't tend to be very good bleeders so a bigger hole is better there as well.

Old Goat · 02-09-2009, 09:52 AM

For big holes...45-70, 450 & 444 marlins are great! Beamerfish brings up a good point...with that long hair they tend to not bleed for tracking without a good hole.

Is the 25-06 your only gun? If so, plan on using it. Life if full of compromises.

nevermiss · 02-09-2009, 10:35 AM

Sure, it'll work (repeating nearly everyone else) if you put the bullet where it belongs. If that's your only rifle you gotta make it work for ya. I also like the 117-grain bullets. Keep your shots short as you can and hit 'em where it counts. Good luck with it!

Don Fischer · 02-09-2009, 10:40 AM

I am amazzed that when talking of back bears the talk goes from 25 cal to big bores in the bat of an eye. The 25-06 will do, pay attention to the bullet! The big bores will do too, who'd of guessed. Somehow all the in between cartridges seem to get left out. The idea of sneaking around in brush looking for a healthy bear may happen but how many are that good to find the bear before it's long gone? The other side of the coin is the bear that is wounded and takes to the brush and you have to go in and find it. OOP's! In that situtation you might wish you'd have chosen to either make the first shot with a more adequate cartridge and/or bullet or that you at least had something a lot larger now! The older I get the more middle of the road I get.

JerryM · 02-09-2009, 03:59 PM

I hunt west side in heavy brush. I shot four bear between August 2007 and September 2008. I lost one after hitting it multiple times through the ribs at about fifty yards with a 30-06 in 165 grain. I had one drop instantly at ten yards with the same round (smallish sow shot in the shoulder and lungs), I had about a 150# boar go about a 100 yards with the same round taking out part of the spine and another through both lungs. The biggest, the one in my profile pic (300-400 lbs), I hit through/along the ribs missing lungs on a quartered shot at about 80 yards. I then hit it through the neck at about fifty yards with same bullet as above dropping it. Still did not die right away.

I saw a bear that had gone for a full 24 hours after being shot through the chest, missing heart, with a 12 guage slug at close range.

My point is this. I am not sure it matters how big the bullet is with these critters. I would not think twice about using my .243 even if I had to. I think it matters more to put multiple rounds through multiple primary target zones if the first shot does not imediately do the trick. I noticed the lungs on bear don't turn to mush like other animals when you hit them.

Always always always carry a pistol if you hunt brushy areas. Trust me they aren't always dead when you get there and you cant always swing a rifle fast in the thick stuff. BTW I hunt the SW area so I am not over limit on bears. I plan to get three this year. Would have last year but felt bad killing and losing one. Made me sick. Man they eat good though.

blacktail hunter · 02-09-2009, 04:39 PM

ok heres a story a few years ago a friend of mine shot a small bear with a 30-30 about 90 yards it spun around and went into a brush pilewe ran up and seen the bear moving around he shot it once more dead bear? i thought so i crawled down into the hole almost upside trying to get ahold of the bears leg to pull him out he wasn't dead it started moving and so did i this fat boy moved pretty fast getting out of that hole. wont do that again...

oregonoutdoors · 02-09-2009, 07:44 PM

110gr accubond

coyote.204 · 02-09-2009, 08:47 PM

Thanks for everyone's input. Just like anything shot placement is key to killing your game. Even though that does not always work out.

beaverheart · 02-12-2009, 06:55 AM

There is no problem killing a bear with a small caliber and a well placed shot. However, if you are hunting behind hounds I would prefer a heavier slug. I have seen many bear killed with a 243 but there is one problem. They end up dying up in the tree (big problem). The best gun has a slug large enough to knock a bear out of the tree. High speed small calibers do not do as well as larger ones. Also, a plain slug without a copper jacket is best. The slug needs to stay together in a bear, you do not want it to shatter. A good ol' 30-30 lever action is a great bear gun.

Santiam338 · 02-12-2009, 07:45 AM

Most spring bear are killed spot and stalk...I have seen a bunch killed and there is usually plenty of time to find a good spot to shoot from..A good rest and shot placement are far more important than caliber...

My favorite bear gun,and I have several

,is my ol trusty 270..It has made several one shot down right there kills over the 400 yard mark..I am confident in it..

I also use my 338-06 with 200 gr Hornady's..It also puts them down ,but in all actuality I have seen little difference between the 2...Last year I used the 300 WSM and also,down right there..

The one thing in common between the guns is where I shoot them..Most people shoot to far back...I shoot the high shoulder shot...Breaks the shoulders and shocks the spine...You shoot them there and you won't have to test your tracking skills..

I would not hesitate if I had a 25-06...I would go bear hunting

Here is a bear I shot a few years back...422 yards with the 270..He never took a step.. I put a red dot on the pic to show the spot I like to hit them...Good luck to all this spring bear season...I am looking forward to the pics and stories...

KingSlew · 02-12-2009, 10:19 AM

The biggest mistake I see people make is getting in a big hurry to shoot when they see a bear. Usually when you spot a feeding bear there's plenty of time to find a good rest and let the nerves calm down. Make that part of the plan and you won't be sorry.

Grantspastor · 02-12-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingSlew

The biggest mistake I see people make is getting in a big hurry to shoot when they see a bear. Usually when you spot a feeding bear there's plenty of time to find a good rest and let the nerves calm down. Make that part of the plan and you won't be sorry.

Good advice

shorthair · 02-12-2009, 01:03 PM

Its worked fine for me even on elk,every one I've shot mine at has been a one shot kill, as said its all about shot placement which is easier with a lighter recoiling rifle you do your job & it'll do its. I'd rather see someone make a better shot with less power than a bad shot with excessive power.

Beamerfish · 02-12-2009, 02:19 PM

Good post Santiam (aka Bear Master). High shoulder. 270. Exactly the shot I have in mind for this spring's hunt except I am kinda partial to blondes and browns.

scottishsetter · 02-12-2009, 02:51 PM

Yeah that! Good post Santiam;;; I would have thought the red dot should be a scotch lower, but I know nothing of shooting bears. Good to know. IFish hunting needs more red dot post regarding game. I'd study them before a hunt just to get the sight picture right "at the moment". Thanks

KingSlew · 02-12-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beamerfish

Good post Santiam (aka Bear Master). High shoulder. 270. Exactly the shot I have in mind for this spring's hunt except I am kinda partial to blondes and browns.

That's a great shot, depending on the angle. Generally, if you wait around and watch, the bear will usually give you a good broadside angle, but sometimes, no matter how long you wait they won't. If you're confronted with a quartering to angle on a steep downhill, where you're literally shooting down into the top of the animal, it's hard to get both shoulders and if you aim for the spine, you may miss high and only get the off side. In that situation, I favor mid body in front of the shoulder, bisecting the vitals.

I believe there are definitely times when big bores and heavy bullets can help the outcome. I once made an admittedly poor shot on a medium sized boar, steep downhill cross canyon, 285 yards, head pointing down. I hit him in the off hind leg with a 200 grn Nosler Partition, 300 Weatherby. He made it 50 yards to the creek, but then he was done. Left him overnight and collected him in the morning. The round had done massive tissue damage to the leg and once he was down in the steep sided creek, he couldn't go uphill and since he wasn't pressured, he bedded down and was in a very weakened condition the next morning. I had a good bloodtrail and after a little bit of looking, I located him about 40 yards up the creek in a log tangle and finished him with a .357 mag revolver. I don't think the outcome would've been the same with a .270, but who knows? I'm certainly no greenhorn, been hunting Spring bear since 1992 and prior to that shot had a long string of successes, but I blew it and count myself lucky that the round did it's job.

Santiam338 · 02-12-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottishsetter

Yeah that! Good post Santiam;;; I would have thought the red dot should be a scotch lower, but I know nothing of shooting bears. Good to know. IFish hunting needs more red dot post regarding game. I'd study them before a hunt just to get the sight picture right "at the moment". Thanks

You go lower and you don't get the double wammy..Shoulder /spine...

On the coast where I hunt they will wiggle around and make the creek if you hit them lower...LOL

Still dead but the pack just got twice as bad...

fish forever · 02-13-2009, 08:25 AM

I'm not a huge big bore nut, but I dont think I would use the 25-06 if I had other choices. I'm sure it would do the job if shot placement was good.

I used the 25-06 on some large Mule deer this fall - got 2 that were in the 200# range. Both shots were in the boiler room, but the shots didnt exit and didnt immediately put the animals down. I used the 110 Accubond in the Federal factory load. Not a big a problem with desert mule deer where you can watch them after the shot and a tracking or followup shot is relatively easy. But, If they had been a big bear in the brush - things would not have been so easy.

Bears run fast, are often in the thick stuff - or run to it after the shot, and they bite back. While thier skin may not be thicker or die harder than deer, they are harder to track than a deer. If I had a bigger gun thats what i'd use. .270/7mm/.30 cals would all be better choices IMHO.

If it was the only gun you have and you have confidence in the rifle and your ability - I'd say use what you have.

FF

PS. There is a downside to the small bore bonded bullets (ie. the 110 accubond). Since they hold together the wound channel and internal destruction is not as great as a soft point or partition. I saw this on the mulies I shot. It had a pretty small wound channel, no exit (bullet was ~75% in the far hide), and less hydrostatic destruction than a traditional softpoint would. Again, not a problem on desert Deer, but could have been with a Bear. I would go for a Softpoint or Nosler partition in 115-120 range. If you chose to use the 25-06 larger mulies, Elk or Bear -> i'd use the 117 Sierra or 115/120 Nosler partition or one of the traditional 115-120 Softpoints (ie. Fusion, Hornady, Remington all make one).

Hard Cast · 02-13-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santiam338

My favorite bear gun,and I have several

,is my ol trusty 270..

Black bear hunting may just be the one thing that the .270 was made for. Perfect bullet size/weight for the speed needed for a flat shooting black bear gun if you think you may need to shoot long IMHO. If the hunt was in thick stuff only, or over bait (I know, not in Oregon) I'd go with a 45/70 or a 30/30 though.

sooslaw · 02-13-2009, 12:27 PM

geez those bears end up in the bottom most of the time anyways Santiam.(in the steeeeep stuff)..darn things are bowling balls. I have hit em good, watched them tuck and take off rolling to the bottom to then jump up and take off running into the swamps and briars. I think the roll to the bottom technique is there back up plan to cover alot of ground in a very short amount of time.

KingSlew · 02-13-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sooslaw

geez those bears end up in the bottom most of the time anyways Santiam.(in the steeeeep stuff)..darn things are bowling balls. I have hit em good, watched them tuck and take off rolling to the bottom to then jump up and take off running into the swamps and briars. I think the roll to the bottom technique is there back up plan to cover alot of ground in a very short amount of time.

LOL! It's twu, it's wheely twu!