Unlicensed Guides - A Problem ???

nofishon2day · 02-22-2004, 08:47 PM

I understand there are a few guys out there guiding fisherman (I won't officially call them guides) who don't have the proper licenses or certifications. I don't think that is fair to the guys who jump through all the hoops of getting licensed, bonded, and insured and so on.

I understand these guys either don't tell their clients they are not licensed, or they tell the clients to say they are just friends out for the day. Doesn't this frustrate guides who are doing it legally? I would guess it certainly is taking away from their business. Is there anything that can be done to stop this illegal activity?

Kentucky Hog Hunter · 02-22-2004, 08:57 PM

I am sure it happens, but not as often as one would think...

Think about it...pay a guide with no guide stickers on his or her boat...Catch fish or don't catch fish... Drop a dime to the local authorities...Problem solved...If they are that [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

they will get caught.

It is a huge risk to take to make an illegal buck...

I for one consider myself my own guide and just pay myself...but on a serious note, there are allot of tremendous, hard working guides out there who would be willing to put an end to this practice at any given opportunity...

Amerman · 02-22-2004, 09:03 PM

I am sure there are people out there doing this. I know one or two that write on Ifish. I worry more about what they are doing to the clients, what they are doing to the guiding name and what would happen if god forbid there was an accident in there boat( no insurance ect.). I don't think there are any of these people out there taking clients away from me, but just like anyone who works under the table we all lose.

Lepper · 02-22-2004, 09:22 PM

The Bandon police chief could probably tell ya something about guideing with out a license..... (for hunting anyway)

oops! did I say that outloud??

willierower · 02-22-2004, 09:38 PM

Lepper!!!

Some people!

Premo · 02-22-2004, 10:28 PM

Funny you mention this because I ran across a guy doing this yesterday at the boat ramp. I didn't make a big stink about it because I wanted to get to fishing, but if he tried to sell himself to one of my precious clients that I work hard for then you better believe I would go to the extreme.

Ian

Steeliehunter · 02-23-2004, 05:24 AM

It is happening more and more. Why do you think OSP and Washington had a big sting last year in Astoria? What burns me the most is that some tolerate it or when you bring it up you are looked down on. The rules and regulations were but in place for a reason or am I missing something.

Straydog · 02-23-2004, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lepper:
The Bandon police chief could probably tell ya something about guideing with out a license..... (for hunting anyway)

oops! did I say that outloud??

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Careful now, according to Lars the chief is a victim in this........!

[ 02-23-2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Biteme · 02-23-2004, 06:07 AM

How many 25 or 26 foot guide model boats do you see out during spring chinook season with all rods identical and the guy driving the boat wearing latex gloves and doing all the baiting and no guide stickers anywhere? This is a big problem. This year however some of these folks will most likely find themselves in a bit of trouble. I hear that OSMB has increased its guide enforcement budget and that they will be going after these guys. I had the coast guard check all of my credentials for the first time this year and I thanked them for it and said that I hoped to see them often in March, April and May. I do have the tip line programmed into my Phone and do use it. One thing that works well is to pull along side of one of these guys and get out your pen and write down there numbers. If they are legal they wont mind if they arent it is great fun to watch the panic as they Skeeedaddle.

Silver Hilton · 02-23-2004, 06:38 AM

I suspect the pro guides know who is who out there. I'll leave it to them to do the worrying about the problem.

Joe Schwab · 02-23-2004, 07:15 AM

Catching illegal guides is not as easy as just "dropping a dime". Direct evidence is required, meaning the person who paid for the trip be he a civilian or and undercover officer must be there to testify. Or at the very least an officer or witness must have observed the transaction of money for service rendered.

These guys usually operate with a circle of trusted friends who know the answers should they be queried by an enforcement agent.

Talking with a Deputy last year who is assigned to Marine Enforcement revealed that the Marine Board is not too concerned about illegal guides and does not want to spend the money to catch them. Low priority.

Like Ammerman said though the risk is unbelievable for the operator from an insurance standpoint. I wonder how long someone would be buddy with a guy that charged him for a guided trip, got injured or worse and found out that insurance only covers those on pleasure trips. Of course you could always lie to the insurance company. That works!

I hope the Marine Board does go after these guys. The sting last year at Buoy 10 was instigated by the Wahington Charter industry and aimed at licensed guides on the lower river without charter licenses. Oregon does not require charter licenses in the river but Washington does. Quirky laws!!

[ 02-23-2004, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Capt. Hook ]

fishhard · 02-23-2004, 07:33 AM

It's a huge problem in WA, last summer I saw 2 guys get busted at Blue Creek ramp for guiding, it was kind of humorous there clients tipped them right in front of Kelley a WDFW agent. What really sucked was that they were both out "guiding" within 2 days with stickers on there boats, seams in WA all you have to do is pay the fine and go buy your guide license and your back in business. I look at guiding without proper licenses and docs like I do poaching... get busted your done fishing and hunting in the State for 2-5 years. Unfortunately WA State just wants the revenue from licenses thats why you only need to steam up a mirror to prove your alive for a guide license.

RiverRogue · 02-23-2004, 07:53 AM

Washington guides do not need the Coast Guard License???? You just dont walk in and get that without a good deal of marine knowledge and passing their test. It is a must have in Oregon if operating a power boat. CPR, First Aid, & proof of insurance are also required before the Marine Board will issue.

drhall99 · 02-23-2004, 08:06 AM

Dennis (Biteme),

Sometimes the guy with the identical rods, doing all the baiting and wearing gloves is just anal about the gear that the guys use in his boat. I know a couple of guys that clean house at the damn every fall that fall into that catagory. They have alot of different people fishing with them because everyone want to fish with the guy who catches fish. Make's it tough to tell who's who, though.

Doug

[ 02-23-2004, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: drhall99 ]

Chromaflage · 02-23-2004, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biteme:
How many 25 or 26 foot guide model boats do you see out during spring chinook season with all rods identical and the guy driving the boat wearing latex gloves and doing all the baiting and no guide stickers anywhere?

Although I do not have one of those 25 or 26 foot boats (yet). I have been known to take a boat full of people out who have never, or have rarely, been fishing before. Some are relatives, some are friends and some are merely acquaintenances. If someone watched us for any length of time, they may come to the same conclusion you are. At least initially, during a trip, I usually get the ball rolling by doing all the rigging, casting, etc. At the end of the day, the people who are with me might chip in for gas, boat lauch etc. So, based on comments in this thread, here's a potential scenario: I take my dad, cousin, uncle and son out for a sturgeon trip. I anchor up near you folks. I'm running everything - boat, anchor, etc. I pick up rods (all of which look the same and belong to me - I have 4 kids and they all like to fish so I have about 6 full identical rigs), and start baiting and casting. Sometimes I wear gloves, especially if I'm baiting a lot of hooks. I have no guide stickers on my boat. We get done for the day, head back to the ramp. My dad, uncle and cousingive me a few bucks to cover gas and the boat launch as a trooper walks up. Hmm....now what?

Just a word of caution here. I understand that unlisenced guides are a concern. But I know several people who take others out on a regular basis, but not for prifit. Generalizations can lead to unnecessary issues.

I guess my question here is: at what point does someone taking people fishing become "guiding?"

Biteme · 02-23-2004, 08:19 AM

Dont get me wrong I am not saying all of those folks are guiding. while lots of sportfisherman run big guide model sleds how many opt for 25 or 26 foot ones that are rigged for six people? most of these folks are not guiding but some are.

fishhard · 02-23-2004, 08:26 AM

RiverRogue
You could walk or crawl into WDFW in Olympia def, blind and dumb and get your guide license,you do not need any proof of anything except a boat registration # for your designated boat decal. It really sucks when your trying to run an honest business.

RiverRogue · 02-23-2004, 08:53 AM

Fishhard, that does suck. big time. A little over a year ago, I got my license. It was not without considerable expense, dedication, and time. And it is somewhat disapponting in that after all that, the clients are not as easy to come by as many think. So for now, I take it as they come and enjoy my time on the water. oh, and one more thing. To maintain the Coast Guard license, one either has to retake the exam in 5 yrs., or provide documentation that a one day out of 5 ratio on the water has been maintained over that 5 yr. period.

Fishin Magician · 02-23-2004, 09:21 AM

It is a problem. It is illegal. The guys out there on the river who are licenced guides are trying to make a living, not just extra money. The outlaw guides are taking money from these guys, not to mention what happens if they get in a boat accident w/o insurance.Most of the guides that I know personally, I try and give them every courtesy on the river, passing on water to give them first shot or let them plug thru a slot.....etc. It is hard work. If you are going to hire a guide ask them for thier guide # and thier licence. If they dont have it dont go......call one of your IFISH guides..... :grin:

John

FishinMission · 02-23-2004, 09:27 AM

As I'm looking into getting my own Guide's License, and as a Washington resident now..I've become "educated" as to what's needed.

If a Washington resident decides to guide on "Non Federally Navigable Waters"...he can pay X amount for a salmon guide's license, and X amount for a steelhead license, and he's good to go on "Non Federally Navigable Waters". The only question that needs answered is what are "Federally Navigable Waters"? Interesting point is that depending on who you ask, you may get as many different answers!

If you plan on taking the "Guide" route..in order to protect yourself and your business...you best know if you'll be fishing Federally Navigable Waters or not.

To guide in Oregon, and be legal..you have to pass the Coast Guard requirements and exam, pay the state your guide fee, show proof of insurance, and have your stickers displayed on your boat, in addition to passing a drug screen, and having a current CPR and First Aid Card.

I know of one individual who sells trips to his friends (?) at Buoy 10 for $50 a day...and I keep telling him one of these days he's gonna get "popped". The big bust at Astoria last year involved Washington Guides who were guiding in that area without a "Charter License". If you're a Washington Guide, you cannot guide below the Longview Bridge (On the Columbia)without one of these. And good luck trying to get one...as they're almost impossible, if not totally impossible to get, as the charter operators have them bought up.

Oregon Redside has a point that I can agree with, as I've often piled alot of my friends into my boat just to get more lines in the water and improve the odds, without anybody being charged to ride along.

Hope that helps.

Mark

Seefood Man · 02-23-2004, 10:07 AM

In the past three months I have spent over 17 thousand dollars in license fees, corporation fees, insurance, Classes, Coast Guard application fees, more license fees, Oregon Marine Board fees, drug test, physical, type 1 life vests, new equiptment, Ifish stickers

, ect.

[ 02-23-2004, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Pete ]

Seefood Man · 02-23-2004, 10:11 AM

PS Fishing mission If I can be of some help to you in any way please send me a PM with your phone #. I'll be glad to help.

GOT2FISH · 02-23-2004, 10:28 AM

WOW thanks guys. I have been saving a little here and there so I can take my son and his brother fishing. I didnt know this was going on and now I know the first question will be ARE YOU LICENCED. I've seen this kinda thing in Towing and can understand how hard it makes it when you jump the hoops and have to compete with some one with 1/10 the overhead. Good Luck.

RAVEN · 02-23-2004, 10:50 AM

Just so you all know.By the way the law is written it is illegal to take any kind of gratuity for opperating a boat with out a License,Like pay for bait or even gas money from friends.So technically most of us brake the LAW every time we go out.

RiverRogue · 02-23-2004, 10:57 AM

Raven, Sorry but you are misinformed. Reasonable compensation is permissable. That does not include dividing your monthly boat payment and insurance among your buddies however. But dividing expenses such as gas, bait, and launch fees is ok.

Chromaflage · 02-23-2004, 12:09 PM

RR - this is strictly hypothetical....I have no intention of doing this at all. But, what is the difference between doing that and what Jim Erickson does. Jim provides an excellent service and opportunity for people to learn a river. I don't even know if he's a lisenced guide.

My point about this whole discussion is - where is the legal line? OK, the guy taking people out and charging them $50 to $100 each....no lisence - unlisenced guide - very clear. What about the scenario I described? What about posting 3 or 4 open seats on Ifish? Or let's say I'm courting a potential client for a business that is unrelated to fishing. I take the reps on my boat for a fishing trip - as a result, they buy into whatever I'm trying to sell them.

Is it strictly the money changing hands? If there is more to it, I'd sure like to hear.

Just some points for duscussion, friends, nothing more. :smile:

ORS

[ 02-23-2004, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: OregonRedside ]

Seefood Man · 02-23-2004, 12:19 PM

Oregon Redside; I think that if you want to take someone out fishing as a "thank's" for doing business that's great, just have a good time and come back and post some pics :smile: :grin: . What is applying here is a consistant income derived from taking clients fishing. I for one can't give a hoot if a friend or neighbors pitch in for gas, bait, ect. For crying out loud,,,,, if that was the case, nobody would be able to fish together at all

. However, there are people out there who don't have the license. insurance and don't pay the taxes in the income the earn. This issue is not to make sure the guides pay all the fees, nor that the states get their fingers in the your cookie jar, it's all about protecting the public. Think of it this way. You know that at anytime I can be called in and MUST take a drug test or my license will be pulled. Personally, I would find that a bit comforting knowing that, the guide, that has me and my family out in the CR is drug free. :grin:

5-Cents · 02-23-2004, 01:07 PM

Can an OR resident get a WA guides license? I have been kicking around the idea just because I want to write off my boat, gas, bait etc.... [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] I dont really want to take anyone out or advertise just the write off

FishinMission · 02-23-2004, 01:15 PM

Shane...Not sure, but I think you have to be a Washington resident. Contact WDFW...They may be ablere to answer that for you...but be careful..the gave me WRONG info as to what"Federally Navigable Waters" were.

Salmon I think was $180..Steelie was $150. Combined was $330.

This is not an inexpensive venture by any means!

Seefood Man's found out!

Mark

Chromaflage · 02-23-2004, 01:19 PM

All I can say is that if WA doesn't allow OR residents to get guide lisences, it may be time to lean on OR for allowing out of state guides on the Deschutes. (I know, I'm going to catch it for that one too - just my opinion).

ORS

[ 02-23-2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: OregonRedside ]

smoky · 02-23-2004, 01:24 PM

I took Rip n lips down the Wilson for hogs this year.

Had latex gloves and identical rods (all Loomis).
Even had the Grundens on. (looked kinda like Dave Johnson wthout glasses)

I baited the rigs, hooked the fish, and handed off the rod.

That sumnabtch never gave me a dime. Was he supposed to pay me? I knew I was doing something wrong.

He crackered off all the fish anyway. Maybe thats why he didnt pay me.

(not mocking anybody here, just a little humor)

Mojo · 02-23-2004, 02:12 PM

Unlicensed guides are a problem in the same way inlicensed drivers are. They may know what to do, and 90% of the time they will never get caught, but if they sink thier boat, and/or injure a "customer", they won't be properly insured. Do they have CPR certification. What happens if their client has a heart attack? What happens if they start taking on water, will they call in the Coast Guard for assistance?

One thing they do is place an added number of people, many of whom are not proficient fishermen, in areas like Buoy 10 where there really doesn't need to be a whole bunch more fisher-folks. If the guy has the skills to be a good guide, he'll keep his customers out of conflicts, but then again if he's that good he'd probably have the right stickers on his boat. If he's not very good, he stands a decent chance of getting himself and his clients into some sort of altercation. That's not my idea of a quality fishing experience.

Save yourself the hassle, and hire a PROFESSIONAL IFISH GUIDE. :grin:

Silver Hilton · 02-23-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OregonRedside:
Let's say that I make fishing rods as a side job. I sell those rods to people. For each customer who buys a rod, I offer a fishing trip. Does this make me an unlisenced guide if I don't have all the stamps of approval for being such?

ORS

If there is a tight correlation, as in essentially everyone getting the rod getting the trip, then, yes, you're guiding. Or rather, that's what my opinion would be, if I were the judge.

Amerman · 02-23-2004, 04:01 PM

A perfect example Its one thing to do its another to advertise it.

[ 02-23-2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Amerman ]

fishnxtc · 02-23-2004, 04:40 PM

Or you might to take a lot of people fishing and like to show them why you are such a fishing fanatic. Let who ever try to drop the dime on you. If you are not guiding you have nothing to worry about. Just be a fishing consultant instead.......Chris

Kentucky Hog Hunter · 02-23-2004, 05:41 PM

Hmmm...

Interesting idea Shane...

I should do it as well because it is a great way to write off a boat & associated supplies...

On days there are no customers...Post open seats on Ifish and write the trips off as R&D expenses...What a way to get your name out there (FYI...that is a good marketing ploy for you new guides out there...) What a way to promote your business...

My finance professor at OGI recently gave me the low down on being a guide and told me the legit loopholes regarding this type of business...Depreciation, insurance, ammoritization...etc...

I have contemplated this often...Maybe it is time to put my Business Degree to work by starting my own guide business... [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 02-23-2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Kentucky Hog Hunter ]

ZaQ · 02-23-2004, 06:00 PM

Terry, didn't you once have a guides license?

02-23-2004, 06:12 PM

[ 02-24-2004, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: ****** ]

Kentucky Hog Hunter · 02-23-2004, 06:47 PM

Zaq,

I did guide from my drift boat in 1996 and legitamatly by the way...Yes I was one of those for a short time...

It was very tough to drum up business back then but with the fishing experience I have now, I could see myself being much more successful if I tried...At least I would feel more confident about the marketing aspect of it...

However, I won't be quiting my day job anytime soon to go diving into this if I do it at all...I like the comfort of having a pay check every 2 weeks and good medical coverage if you know what I mean...

Back in 96 by the way, insurance for 250K of coverage was around $800 per year...

Tillerboy · 02-23-2004, 07:36 PM

There are a few that guide without a license on the Santiam system. Would be nice to see them get pinched this spring. Guess I'll program the TIP number in my phone to help that process along.

If you are hiring a guide ask to see their guide license. If they are legitmate they will give you a hug for doing so.

Ray S. · 02-23-2004, 08:02 PM

Shane, a friend of mine is a dentist in Oregon City and he was nice enough to call me to join him for a guided trip on the Lewis. My friend had traded dental service in exchange for the day fishing. I can't remember the guide's name [ must have been about ten years ago ] but he was from Oregon City also and he was registered in both states. If you are thinking about getting a coast guard license, the longer you hesitate the harder it will be when you do it. Seems to me like the keep making more and more hoops to jump through for new issues.
Good luck Ray

Quasimodo the fish killer · 02-23-2004, 08:05 PM

I dont see why anyone would take the chance to guide with out a licence it seems pretty stupid to me.

last I looked to be a drift boat guide you needed about $500 worth of insurance and a licence from OSMB a monkey could manage that. no offense against any guides my best friend is a full time guide, But as far as I know there is no test to see if they guy even knows how to row a boat or catch fish.

once you start using a power boat then things change a lot with the requirment of a coast goard licence. A buddy of mine thats retired and I were fishing springers last spring we were fishing near every day ( I have a liberal work schedule that allows me to come and go as I please) and we got hasseled by osp. the officer couldnt believe someone there in a barnd new poat every day wasnt a guide. finally he let us be on our way. the police do keep an eye on things it was a hassel for us because we didnt want a bunch of people knowing how we did and with the officer giving us the thrid degree everyone seen our box full of chromers.

like I said in the begaining no affense against any guides out there but with getting a guides licence so cheap and easy I just dont see why someone would chance the fine.

Quasi

.

Surething · 02-23-2004, 08:14 PM

so let me ask everyone this I'm self employed and every year I take at at least 12 to 15 trips with people I do business with. I provide the boat gear and every thing they will need to fish I do all the work and they have tones of fun I even clean the fish for them and yes I do use rubber gloves from time to time. I have a boat that most guides whould be happy to have. I know that there are people that run with out the proper licenses and they should be delt with by the law. but that dosen't make someone with a big boat and all the same gear a person doing somthing wrong. I don't think so but I chould be wrong. I sure I not the only person that has done this for friends or someone they know. I have even taken people I don't know but was asked by a friend or someone I do business with to take them fishing. I don't think this me an illegal guide I never take money. but it cost me some money to do this but I'm happy to do it. let me know what you think

Premo · 02-23-2004, 08:43 PM

Getting a guide license and catching fish is the easy part. Getting clients is a whole other story. Advertising and promotion doesn't really work in the guide world. Neither does having the lowest price and giving away free guided trips. I think it is bad for the guide name. Trust me on this one!

Word of mouth is by far the best way of getting business and of course knowing the right people and catching fish for your clients is the best way of getting repeat business but it takes years and years of dedication and hard work to get to the status of having people call you every day to fish. I'm glad I'm starting young because it's a challenging venture that I will not give up on. It's also one of the most rewarding feelings ever!

Ian

Kentucky Hog Hunter · 02-23-2004, 08:58 PM

SureThing...

I do the same thing you do all the time for people at my work and at times by open seats on Ifish...

I have never asked for money nor do I plan on asking...If people want to chip in for gas & bait then I accept...

The people at work fully understand that I am not a guide and most definately never accept money from those who are my real work customers...

What you are doing is not wrong...You aren't promoting so you have nothing to worry about...

Like I have said, I have often times contemplated being a guide part time so I could write off my expenses. I still may yet do it...

ZaQ · 02-23-2004, 09:06 PM

Green pirate, I have never been on a guided trip. I have always wondered about one thing, is there an unwritten rule that if clients don't catch any fish, a limited refund is made? I am unable to write exactly what I mean or want to ask, but maybe you get what I am saying.........if I go with you and I don't catch any fish nor does any one else in the boat, a full on Carrot style drought.........do I get my money back minus the cost of the trip? Maybe half refund? I am just curious how this works with guides...........................thanks...

[img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Kentucky Hog Hunter · 02-23-2004, 09:13 PM

Zaq,

My son & I took a trip back in 1993 for John Day Summer Run Steelhead with the late Dick O'Brien (God Rest His Soul)...

We got skunked that day and he gave my son & I a 2 for 1 if we booked again... I did and we had much better results the next time...

As for most guides, I don't think this is a standard practice... Dick was a great human being I might add and this was part of who he was... He had also done many seminars for me when I was President & VP of the TV Steelheaders...So he gave back to his business and that was what made him a great guide IMHO...

Chromaflage · 02-23-2004, 09:15 PM

KHH - there are other ways you can write off your fishing expenses without the expenses of getting set up for guiding. E-mail me and we can discuss. Or we can discuss between gator/springer thumps :grin:

ORS

Premo · 02-23-2004, 09:19 PM

Zaq,

Nothing is free with a guided trip. Rarely will my boat pull a skunk but it does happen. It's been like almost 40 trips since I stunk it up last. I've given another trip due to poor conditions like a rising river or horrible winds but not very often.

I've been on four guided trips in my life and only once did I catch fish and we nailed five springers. The other three were skunks that I had to pay for.

If you were to take a trip and we got skunked I could take a bottle of carrot milk for payment [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] :grin:

[ 02-23-2004, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Green Pirate ]

Kentucky Hog Hunter · 02-23-2004, 09:26 PM

Kerry...

Very interested in that discussion...

Lets do it over a fishing trip... I will PM you tomorrow or something when I am in my hotel room in Boise...

Gone Fishin · 02-23-2004, 09:28 PM

You've been sipping way too much carrot milk ZaQ,

A professional guide gives his all to his clients for the day, whatever his day might be. Mine sometimes (most of the time) are long. Work hard, treat the customers with respect, have the right equipment with the know-how to get the customer into fish and make sure they have a very enjoyable experience are what I provide.

You can't catch fish every day, that's why it's called fishing. But, you better be able to produce consistantly.

What I'm getting at is there is no guarantee. When people call me and ask for such I tell them that they're better off going to Safeway, it won't cost as much as a guided trip and you will be guaranteed to take fish home.

Some of the largest tips from customers I've received have been on skunked days. Nothing happining, no biters, but they knew I worked my tail off and kept at it until they said quit.

I will guarantee you'll have a good time!

Lepper · 02-23-2004, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Straydog:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lepper:
The Bandon police chief could probably tell ya something about guideing with out a license..... (for hunting anyway)

oops! did I say that outloud??

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Careful now, according to Lars the chief is a victim in this........! <hr /></blockquote>Hey I have some beach front property I can sell you for $5.00 Just send it to me.. Honest it's a legit deal!!

Don't even want to get started on this one..

Mikeymoto · 02-23-2004, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 5-Cents:
Can an OR resident get a WA guides license? I have been kicking around the idea just because I want to write off my boat, gas, bait etc.... [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] I dont really want to take anyone out or advertise just the write off

It may be really iffy when you dont want to take anyone out. From what I understand you have to show an "intent" to make a profit at some point in x number of years. To show a profit or intend to, it may help to take someone out and charge them. Your CPA should be a better source of personal info for this. BTW I want to be able to right off my boat too. But is it a business expense? A different business asset? Or a floating second home? Many variables to consider.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Mike

jaydee · 02-23-2004, 09:53 PM

FYI, the last two years, WDFW enforcment has been really trying to nab "suspected" illegal charters in some of the coastal ports here in WA. Specifically, they have been interviewing all aboard suspected vessels without the necessary licenses. I would assume that enforcment is tipped off by folks that were, or are legal.
Among those suspected, have been owners/opperators of larger trailer boats and yachts, and some river-guide boats.
Something to consider if you (the reader) are one of these people doing this.
An acquaintence of mine was caught illegally chartering many years ago. He had a guide lisence from WA, but no charter lisence. Since then, he has been strictly legal to the bone.
Just from what he's told me, It's not something that sounds very pleasent, and it's definately not worth the risk.
Media caught wind of that citation and made public mention of the incident. Don't really recal now to what extent.

J.D.

Chris Nordling · 02-23-2004, 10:33 PM

Gone Fishin' nailed it.

Chris

[ 02-23-2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: FWF1 ]

Private-Aye-Fish · 02-23-2004, 11:05 PM

As a person who mantians my professional license, E & O insurance, a bond etc, I would never deal with a person who didn't maintain the proper licensing in my or any other professsion.

The difference is "professionalism".

Phil

speyfly · 02-23-2004, 11:11 PM

What will happen is that if law enforment knows who these guys are they will sting them. It has happened in the past and it is about the only way to catch them.

willametteriveroutlaw · 02-23-2004, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biteme:
How many 25 or 26 foot guide model boats do you see out during spring chinook season with all rods identical and the guy driving the boat wearing latex gloves and doing all the baiting and no guide stickers anywhere? This is a big problem. This year however some of these folks will most likely find themselves in a bit of trouble. I hear that OSMB has increased its guide enforcement budget and that they will be going after these guys. I had the coast guard check all of my credentials for the first time this year and I thanked them for it and said that I hoped to see them often in March, April and May. I do have the tip line programmed into my Phone and do use it. One thing that works well is to pull along side of one of these guys and get out your pen and write down there numbers. If they are legal they wont mind if they arent it is great fun to watch the panic as they Skeeedaddle.

Either that.. or their just Hard Core fishermen. Its best not to make assumptions based on appearances or how much someone fishes.

Chromaflage · 02-23-2004, 11:47 PM

Here's a question that will probably not go over real well, but it's pertinent. I want to preaface this by saying that I have a lot of respect for guides and what they do. They earn their $$. I've known Jack Glass since before he started his guiding service and have been out with him several times. I have been out with a few others as well. They put in their time, they often have to deal with difficult clients, and most substantially contribute a lot of time and resources protecting our privelage to fish. So, for all those legal guides who work so hard - here's to you

That being said, on to my question. Let's say that I make fishing rods as a side job. I sell those rods to people. For each customer who buys a rod, I offer a fishing trip. Does this make me an unlisenced guide if I don't have all the stamps of approval for being such?

ORS

RiverRogue · 02-23-2004, 11:58 PM

Oh man! That is a place you don't want to go at all. I believe this would put you in a position of scrutiny that would be far more trouble (expense-ie. lawyer) than any reasonable person would want to take on. Really, why bring that on yourself??