9" Squid Riggin'

[Birdnest]

My plan for the 'butts is going to be a spreader bar with a 12-24 oz cannon ball. For the business end I was planning on a 9" glow green or white squid with a salted herring filet. The leader is going to be about 15" 50lb test.

My question is how do you rig these squid. Like a giant hootchie? I am assuming no weight and letting the current dance the squid around. Do I rig this with a single hook or double. Circle or siwash? Is there a handy dandy hollow "head" that I can fill with scent to fit inside the squid? Am I kidding myself with just a herring filet? Any pics of setups?

Thanks,

Joe

[kenai]

I've been doing better with the circle hooks, from 10/0 to 16/0. You just HAVE to remember not to set the hook, just start reeling, it's a tough habit to form. Where do you plan on fishing? Ive rarely been able to use less than 32 oz's of lead, usually quite a bit more if you want to stay on the bottom. I been using the stretchy thread on the squid and pass it through twice opposite of a hoochie.

[Threemuch]

Keep in mind, Joe is fishing the top of puget sound. Probably shallower than Oregon spots. There are tons of rigs, and there is a book you should get:

How to catch trophy halibut by terry rudnick.

It's a bible for halibut fishermen, and has spots or at least general areas for you too. It's a must have for the novice who doesn't have someone to teach him.

Check it out. If I were you, I would go with the Pilar No Excuses rig. Basically a slider rig with 16/0 circle hook. I will see if I can dig up the old diagram. You can put a big hoochie on the leader, just thread it on. I would use whole herring, maybe two, combined with squid, octopus or salmon bellys for bait. Herring fishes best, but comes off too easy. If you keep the rig baited with something tough, you can get bit, not hook up and keep fishing without checking your bait again, a big bonus in deep water.

Kurt

[Threemuch]

Joe, I will send you my copy of Terry Rudnicks book with the harpoon, but I'll want it back, and you will want your own. It's a great resource.

I would like to learn that Puget sound game. If your opener dates don't conflict with Oregons, I will come up there and show you what I know.
Kurt

[Fish Hawg]

I'm a Novice [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] Why dont you set hook with circle hooks? I was last year and never lost or missed a fish ....Ross

[Silver Eagle]

Birdnest if your fishing off Newport you'll setting the hook is kind of hard if your at the "Ranch" your at least 600 feet and with current your probably more, as far as using Squid hoochie we use them over whole herring, if you lose your bait your don't have to check much, 600 to 900 feet gets real tiring to check the bait. Everything that you have in mind will work. But 32 oz. might be light early in year. Think 40 to 60 oz. Not a fun fishery but love them. Ray

[Salty Walty]

I rig them with 2, 9/0 VMC octopus hooks with a 20"-24" #80 leader. I snell both hooks on and offset them so the squid hangs on the top hook where the tentacles start and the second is at the ends of the tentacles. I fish them off a 3 way with @ 18" of #30 for the weight or just use lighter line for the weight than on your main. I have never used bait with the squids. I use the squids because the sharks don't seem to bother them and if you put bait on them they would. Good luck!

[Threemuch]

Fish hawg-
A circle hook is designed to hook the fish in the corner of his mouth. As the line tightens, the hook pulls out and the gap finds it's way to the corner. This won't happen if you jerk on it.

At the ranch or out of garibaldi, you are 700-1000' of line away from your fish. Even at 3%-4% stretch (typical for spectra) you get 21-30' of line stretch. That's a bunch. So you probably are saved by the stretch and circle hook still works. Sometimes circles work when you jerk it by gut hooking the fish, but this is not their design. They were developed by longliners to get fish hooked without killing them. A longline can't set the hook so the hook is designed to hook fish by "doing nothing"

Kurt

[Birdnest]

Great info. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Kurt-I will defenitely pick up that book, so don't worry about sending yours. Thanks though. I have Pilar's diagram saved in my "things I learned on Ifish" folder. Last year our halibut dates were 5/8-7/18 for Puget Sound. In the straight, were the best halibut fishing is, it is usually 5/8-quota. Both of these is a Thur-Sun kinda of thing if I remeber right.

Concerning weight, the 4 banks I have been researching are not as deep as you Oregun guys have to go. The deepest adjacent water is something like 400', with most in the 200-250 range. I will try and be over prepared being a halibut virgin and all.

Thanks again for the replies, all great info.

Joe

I would sugest going to 100lb on the leaders. Circle hooks if you are going to fish deeper than 40 fa. I don't like spreader bars, I use a sliding sinker.

[ 01-31-2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Fish Hawg]

I was fishing Swift Shore (neah bay) the water we were fishing was 218-250' I would let the fish tug three good time and then set the hook. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] They were all hooked in the corner of the mouth. It was the first time I used circle hooks. Thanks for the info.

How do you know when to stsrt reeling (when the fish is hooked)....Ross

I freespool line when I feel a bite. After the first run I engage my reel and when I feel the fish again I start to reel it in.

[Threemuch]

Fish hawg-

If you waited for them to tug three times, they were probably hooked in the corner by the time you struck em. Honest, you aren't supposed to set it with a circle hook! But if it works for ya, don't mess with it.

KB

[corrirod]

Here's some rigs that worked well last summer for me. I've got a couple new variances for this summer but the same basic concept.

First, this is the spreader bar I make. Seems to work a lot better than the steel ones you buy at the stores:



Then, here are the rigs. Dual hook, glow hootchies or squids above the bait. The first rig I tried using the mini glow sticks but it was too much work for too little return. Just a glow hootchie works fine.

[Aqua-Holic]

Rod.......what do you use for the bar (tube) ?

[R Jackson]

Aqua-Holic, go to Tap Plastics on the internet. Look under "rods and tubes".

[Aqua-Holic]

RJ.....thanks. Terminator Tackle also makes a heavy mono spreader with snap swivels for about $3.00 called the Alaska single drop.

[corrirod]

Sorry for the late reply Dean. TAP plastics has the tubing. It's 3/8" o.d. and the one trick I do that's a little different than the pre-rigged ones is I double the line thru the tube. I run the line thru the tube, then thru the corkie(to help with flotation), thru the swivel, then back thru the corkie and tube again. What this does is works as a cantilever and helps elevate the bait, just like a spreader bar. Your bait rig attaches to the corkie end, your 2lb weight attaches to the other end of the tube, and the top end connects to your main line. Also, you can pull the weight end out and adjust the height of your spreader bar in order to keep it right at bottom level, or just off the bottom.

Rod,
Do you keep in contact with the botton all of the time? I like to be 10'-20' above the bottom and only drop down every 2 or 3 minutes to make sure of my bait depth.

[tailchaser]

Ah, the myth of the circle hook comes around this time every year it seems. Yes, the original intent of the circle was for longliner fishermen that could keep fish on the hook without having the services of getting a hookset. The hook would either be swallowed or find it's way to the corner of the mouth by a slow pull (mostly from the fish starting to swim away). For novice halibut fishermen this is a great tool in regards to letting the fish swallow the bait and start reeling, never having to worry about the question "when do you set the hook?" Also, if the hook doesn't find a sweet spot in the corner, the fish will throw the hook. After loosing three monsters in AK I abandoned the traditional circle hook.

Now that I've gone over the original intent of the circle you have to realize people are changing the look of the circle to offsetting the shank and thus changing the ability of the hook. Put a 16/0 in a vicegrip, get a pair of channel locks and turn the hook out. What this does is expose the point of the hook to get some meat when I "set" the hook into the fish. To me it's just not natural to not set the hook. We don't lift the rod trying to rip thier eyeballs out, but a stiff set is perfect. Granted I'm fishing waters 450' and less, not the stuff some guys are after in 700+ waters. We plant the hook in fish and very very rarely miss one. Not only will you hook fish in the mouth, but most often it's sunk through their cheek. Something you won't see with a normal circle. This is now the standard hook we use both in Oregon and AK in the summer. We haven't lost a monster fish in a couple of years and is easily our go to rig. We've boated over 1000 fish in the last two years and have tried so many techniques it's unreal, and this is what we constantly come back to.

People have tons of different takes on one setup to the other, this is just my .02. Good luck.

tc

[corrirod]

I personally like to stay as close to the bottom as possible but usually the drift or current is so fast that I only touch the bottom every couple minutes. I don't want to "dredge" the bottom but I want to be within a foot or two. By adjusting the weight position I can keep it just off the bottom and reduce the chances of a hangup on the reefs or rocks too.

I also like to use Pilar's bannana weight/RSK method but not in the deep 400+ ft. water.

[corrirod]

I just realized that the pics I posted show 2 rigs with double "circle" hooks and my favorite rigs are actually with a circle/"J" hook combination. I like a circle on the tail end and a "J" on top. Most of the time they get hooked with the circle but occasionally an aggressive hali will really inhale the whole rig and the J hook will make sure he pays for it. I have actually hooked a hali with both hooks, the circle in the corner of the mouth and the J in the top lip. He went nowhere but in the fishbox!

I prefer a double 10/0 octopus setup, a mooching rig w/100lb mono, but with circle hooks (last year was the first time I really used them) I would only use one hook. I feel the second hook gets in the way. I like a slip sinker too. Let the fish run on slack line and swallow the bait, I do this with J hooks too. The only difference is when I feel the fish after the first run I set the hooks hard with J hooks and just start reeling with the circle hooks. I didn't miss any hookups with the circle hook rig, the only problem I had with circle hooks last season was a broken 8/0 Gami on a LARGE fish.

[ 02-02-2004, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Threemuch]

I was going to play with some hook sizes and types this year, maybe try the biggest owner cutting point Super Mutu circles, 14/0 I think. 12 bucks for two though, YOWCH. But that aint gonna break. Of course neither is my 20/0 galvanized mustad. But it isn't quite as sticky.
KB

[Fish Hawg]

tailchaser, thats Exactly how I use the circle hook. I put them in a vice to bend them. Like you said, Most of the ones I hooked were stuck clear through the cheek. I just give them a little stout hook set to send it home. It has worked awesome for me. ....Ross

[Pitch Pocket]

I'm no halibut expert, but on my first trip to the ranch, we used a halibut spreader bar, short leaders (12-15")to avoid wrapping the bait leader around the main line on the drop, a large b2 glow squid, and a fresh herring just impaled a couple of times on the hook and no scent at all. We used a regular large hook on one rod and a large circle hook on the other. We used more weight than was necessary for the drift, but it stayed right under the boat.

We dropped slowly and set it on the bottom and left it there as long as possible before picking it up and bouncing it to catch up with the drift.

We didn't have to bounce more than about 3 times and it was fish on (the ball didn't come off the bottom when we tried to bounce it, then it swam away). Doubles on each drift. For our first time to the ranch, we limited the boat in about 45 minutes. I know that probably won't happen every time, but at least it validates the method. You should do fine

I did get unbuttoned with the regular hook on one fish. The modified circle hook worked fine. I sharpened them both to a needle point. 1 for 2 on the regular hook, 2 for 2 on the circle hook. I'll probably go circles on both rods next time.

I've used the slider in Cook Inlet and more than once lost fish due to a wrapped leader around the mainline. There is a tendancy to get impatient and drop the thing fast. The spreader bar with a short leader, if dropped slowly will not tangle with the mainline and give the proper presentation.

I bought a Precision Auto Reel this year and will try it for halibut. It's a bear reeling them up from 600'.

I was cautioned by an old timer that you should not pump the rod using heavy weights. The alternating tension of the rod pulling up and then the weight pulling down lets the hook back out of the wound. He said better to just leave the rod in the holder and reel. Electric reels here I come!

Pitch,
My weights are attached with 12lb line and often drop off when I have a fish on.

[corrirod]

My only issue with the spreader bars has been getting tuff-line wrapped around the swivel and then breaking off. I lost 2 fish and 2 setups becuase of that. When that tuffline wraps on top of itself it will cut thru itself. I thought about adding a mono topshot or steel cable but found a version of the rig above to work better.

[Pitch Pocket]

I used a short (6") piece of 30 lb leader to the weight and got the weight back every time! :grin:

I'm not sure I want to donate a chunk of lead that large to the bottom every time I hook a fish. Those things are expensive!

Rod, I tied about a 2' topshot of heavy mono to keep the tuff out of the swivel. It happens fishing for salmon too when using a spreader. Tuff can be a real pain. I think the slow patient drop is the key.

[ 02-02-2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Pitch Pocket ]

Everyone should have a mono topshot lighter than their spectra so it breaks off saving the spectra and keeping it off of prop shafts. For butt I use 10' of 50lb.

Pitch,
I have a 48oz cannon ball sinker mold that's somewhere in your area :grin: that you can use.

[ 02-02-2004, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[tailchaser]

48 ozs?! :shocked: My goodness, I complain when I have to use 24!

tc

I also have 16oz, 24oz, and 32oz cannonball molds in Salem.

There were days last year that 48oz wouldn't keep your bait close to the bottom at 450'+ :depressed:
One day that 16oz leads would have worked that deep, zero drift!

[Birdnest]

Keta just uses old downrigger balls. :tongue:

I was looking at some of the B2 squids today. These were already rigged with a weighted head. These would only be used with out a seperate weight, correct???

I am planning on using the spreader bar/cannon ball and something along Corrirod's bottom pic. Now as far as threading some tasty herring on the circle hooks, does anybody use half hitches to hold the bait on better? If so, what kind of material would be a good choice?

As long as I am bombarding the board with newbie questions. Will the standard hand crimper (looks like a pair of plyers) work ok? I have heard that new people tend to over crimp, thus cutting into their line.

Oh, I can wait to see "color"

Joe

This is just in the first stage but I'm thinking large glowing objects aren't that attractive to butts. I did better with 4-1/2" hoochie with a glow stripe or 2 3/8" glo beeds than I did with the all glo hoochies or the glo B2 squids. Anyone else notice this pattern or am I seeing things?

I also got hit as soon as I got to the bottom with a 3/4" all glo spin-n-glo above my bait.

PS: I'm new to deep butt fishing, in Alaska we never fished deeper than 40fa and usualy fished in the 10fa-20fa depth, and never used glo atractors.

[ 02-02-2004, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Threemuch]

I use elastic thread to keep soft bait on. You can buy "magic thread" at a tackle shop for three bucks or you can go to a fabric store and buy elastic thread with no "magic" in it for $.40 a spool. I do the latter.

WRT over crimping. I crimp with handheld crimpers. If you are crimping mono I would undercrimp rather than overcrimp. I usually double all my crimps and haven't had one fail yet. Keep an eye on the mono, if it bulges right next to the crimp you overdid it.

Also, you might want to put a bead or two on every leader you crimp. Those crimps will cut spectra, and it REALLY stinks to get cut off by your buddies fish when you have 1000' of line out and a big one biting. Specrtra has a way of finding the crimp and getting sliced. Don't ask how I know this. The bead, and keeping your tag ends short will keep that from happening.

KB

[Pitch Pocket]

I just tied knots. My knots don't come untied or cut my line. What is the advantage of crimping anyway? One more thing to go wrong at 600'?

Knots work good in line less than 100lb and my halibut gear is all tied. I now have good crimpers and haven't had problems with my tuna gear since I got them.

Birdnest,
My downrigger balls are 10lbs, I would like to get some 15lb ones.

[ 02-02-2004, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[AuntyM]

I'm a veteran of the spreader bar/B2 squid with herring. We do it thus:

The herring is always rigged with the head up inside the body of the squid, the first hook juts out from the upper part of the tenticles and the stinger is in the lower part of the tenticles.

Seems to work fine. Won $2500 for Caveman in the Port Angeles Halibut Derby one year, even though RJ tried to knock it off with the gaff..... TWICE! :grin:

[Birdnest]

Hey Aunty M,

Long time no hear. I was wondering when the Queen of Shrimpin' was going to come around again.

Did you guys get out for any Blackmouth on Sunday?

Joe

[AuntyM]

Birdnest, we layed around all day being slugs and watching the game. I'm not much into blackmouth. I'd rather get winter steel.