Learning Goose ID

sprigkiller09 · 01-29-2009, 07:45 AM

Ok guys i need a little help...

I am preparing some materials for some up coming presentations on Goose ID in the permit zone. What i would like to know is; what would you like to see in a presentation or do you think would be beneficial in a Goose ID presentation?? My current presentation has hundreds of pictures and biological info on the 7 subspecies of geese. But I want to see what ideas you guys might have. I want to make sure and cover ALL the bases. Thanks a ton!!
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rrust1 · 01-29-2009, 08:01 AM

Don't laugh, but the youtube videos on line for OR and WA DFW, especially the 20 minute version from that forestry university in our state, were spectacular. I was able to watch it once after studying the 86 page booklet during a road-trip (to the Holiday Bowl) and pass with flying colors.

The most helpful advice was if you cannot I.D. it, let it pass.

I am looking forward to Feb. 7!!!

rrust1 · 01-29-2009, 08:03 AM

Oh, one more thing. Sounds, especially cacks, was a great way for me to put it all together. Throughout the videos, they are constantly using sound to reinforce the message, and that really hit home for me.

Linejerk · 01-29-2009, 09:16 AM

I would say skip the biological info I do not see the need in it I took my class 2 years ago and do not remember a thing about that stuff, stick to the basics Dark color and size shows pic's but not so many that you can't remember them all to much is a bad thing.

Chesapeake · 01-29-2009, 09:42 AM

You probably got it covered, but talk about the Duskies tendancy to land next to cover, in smaller fields, ect.... They arent shy like the other geese.

If its to good to be true, be wary, its probably Duskies.

I use thier behavior as a sign to realy hold off till I can make a positive visual.

sprigkiller09 · 01-29-2009, 11:21 AM

great point!! Sounds would be a great incorporated.

Adam you had read my mind low light is what we are plagued with on a day to day basis int he valley and that would be great to have for most people.

Line jerk. I agree too many pictures can defenitely be a bad thing (overwhelming to some folks).

great comments keep em coming guys. Its great to hear what would help people learn subspecies better!!

Chessie: Got it covered. Duck ponds, small wooded areas, decoy right in. Perfect!! Thanks

D3smartie · 01-29-2009, 11:33 AM

pics showing differences in wing shape and wing/body proportions.

WSU · 01-29-2009, 11:37 AM

I don't want to hijack, but can someone PM how long it takes to get your card after taking the exam.

sprigkiller09 · 01-29-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSU

I don't want to hijack, but can someone PM how long it takes to get your card after taking the exam.

PM sent

Tar Heel · 01-29-2009, 01:08 PM

That is one nice text, and needs very little, if any, work, imo. I apologize if the below is in the text already. I printed it off the web, but lent it to somone to use to study.

I think the bio info helps us understand why we are doing this, and also helps us to remember some sub species from others, e.g. why Duskys are in trouble in the first place, how Cacks are short stopping compared to prior migration/wintering grounds. While we may not retain all this, it would be unfortunate to simply ask hunters to accept the regs at face value, and that kind of information does help me remember the subspecies distinctions.

It might help to include some practical information like what to do if you loose your card(at least I don't recall that being in there). I took the class in 84, being told" you will never have to do this again..." then had to take it again last year. Now, first zone hunt in 20 years, I loose my card! Maybe others can think of some other practical and procedural stuff. I don't recall, is there a FAQ section on some of this kind of stuff?

xstreme357 · 01-29-2009, 02:26 PM

i know when i took the test several years ago the wa book was extremely hard to distinguish the color break. they preach chocolate breats on duskies and pics had terrible lighting to try and figure the diff between a tav and a dusky. pics help show exactly what is typical and and what not. obviously size plays a huge part but for someone who has never seen a tav vs. a dusky it can be difficult to explain verbally the difference between the two.

jnicholson · 01-29-2009, 06:42 PM

Videos of flocks with sound coming at and over you. Large numbers of geese, low flying, singles, doubles, swans, cormorants fast wing beat .... mixed flocks .... you know what I'm getting at.

Make it a contest ... See if your students can ID birds on the wind. They each get a limit. Each accurate call get's the bird and it goes to your limit, call 3 cacks and you're out, miss call a Dusky your out, etc.

Make it a contest and see how many people jump the gun ... point being you need to slow it down in the field too and be accurate or don't shoot.

John and Bucky

Headhunter · 01-29-2009, 07:10 PM

Some photos at shooting distance. Close up detail is great but the only time I get to see that much detail is when its down on the ground already. Side by side compare and contrast. What is the mental checklist you click down before BANG. Less on honks and cacks, more on the middle ones. Sound is a really good one as mentioned.

By far the best for me personally would be.......an invite to a 3rd period goose hunt

Ahhh Kelly I had to....that was just low hanging fruit...lol.

merten · 01-29-2009, 07:19 PM

are you talking about the goose id test or just idetification

waterfowlin101 · 01-29-2009, 07:24 PM

Ahhh Kelly! Too bad you know as well as I that the only true identification test is years of experience in the feild...and landing birds in the dekes for conformation.

It's all about getting out there and getting close. The only problem is, so many hunters shoot way to early, and miss on all the real learning that takes place inside 25 yards.

Been doing this since it all began (forget how many years ago) and still wish I had more days in the feild.

I'd love to come to your seminar though...let me know when and where!

Jon

SuperVee23 · 01-29-2009, 08:16 PM

101, it's more like most guys skybust and shoot them at 80 yards or more and don't worry about identifying them. Like I say, put them on the ground, then put them down. We don't shoot birds unless they finish, period! Experience plays a hugh roll in this game, not doubt about it.

HonkerKnocker · 01-29-2009, 10:55 PM

Man, that's a tough question to answer.It's to bad you couldnt do like a clinical day where you actually took people out into the field Live geese would be awesome to glass and help people identify birds. I can honestly say that I took the test ,learned what I had to learn, but it wasnt until I actually spent hours in the field that I could pick out a tav. in a flock of cacks. I think cacks are easy to identify but picking out a tav. or a lesser in a flock of cacklers is the hardest part...I still am not sure sometimes....I agree with line jerk light on the biology heavy on pics and real life useful ID information.

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tar Heel

It might help to include some practical information like what to do if you loose your card(at least I don't recall that being in there). I took the class in 84, being told" you will never have to do this again..." then had to take it again last year. Now, first zone hunt in 20 years, I loose my card! Maybe others can think of some other practical and procedural stuff. I don't recall, is there a FAQ section on some of this kind of stuff?

Great Input thanks!!! Much like you i took the test in i believe 94 or 95 when i was 9 years old and have yet to need to take the test again. Hopefully i will be informed when i do. All of these suggestions will be taken into account for the next update (3 years).Thanks Very much.

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xstreme357

i know when i took the test several years ago the wa book was extremely hard to distinguish the color break. they preach chocolate breats on duskies and pics had terrible lighting to try and figure the diff between a tav and a dusky. pics help show exactly what is typical and and what not. obviously size plays a huge part but for someone who has never seen a tav vs. a dusky it can be difficult to explain verbally the difference between the two.

Washington (as well as Oregon) worked with me partnership on the new guide and they have it for use. So if it is not up on their website i would holler at em. They have it and it is set to put up it may take some hollering from you Washingtonians to get it up there though. Good luck!!

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headhunter

Some photos at shooting distance. Close up detail is great but the only time I get to see that much detail is when its down on the ground already. Side by side compare and contrast. What is the mental checklist you click down before BANG. Less on honks and cacks, more on the middle ones. Sound is a really good one as mentioned.

By far the best for me personally would be.......an invite to a 3rd period goose hunt

Ahhh Kelly I had to....that was just low hanging fruit...lol.

Hahaha. I dont blame you for trying to snag the fruit I understand!! The mental checklist idea is awesome!!! Great input on all those ideas.

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnicholson

Videos of flocks with sound coming at and over you. Large numbers of geese, low flying, singles, doubles, swans, cormorants fast wing beat .... mixed flocks .... you know what I'm getting at.

Make it a contest ... See if your students can ID birds on the wind. They each get a limit. Each accurate call get's the bird and it goes to your limit, call 3 cacks and you're out, miss call a Dusky your out, etc.

Make it a contest and see how many people jump the gun ... point being you need to slow it down in the field too and be accurate or don't shoot.

John and Bucky

Video is one thing i will defenitely look to in the future. But it wont be just for ID i will buy it for filming hunts also

. I defenitly know what you are getting at and the input is much appreciated. It is nice to have multiple people bringing up ideas....some i never would have thought of and i hope by combining many of these ideas i can put together the ULTIMATE presentation. The contest is a good idea. May have to try it with a select group first...

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merten

are you talking about the goose id test or just idetification

Both. In cooperation with ODFW and WDFW i made a guide that talks about the 7 subspecies of geese and the two additional species of geese in Oregon and SW washington. The guide is directly coorelated with the test and is a tool for preparation for the test. But the guide is also much more. Somthing to keep int he truck when scouting or attempting to learn goose ID.

Anyway I have been kindly invited to give presentations from numerous organizations to help people learn goose ID. So what this thread is about is getting ideas from people on what they would like to see in a goose ID presentation or in the guide in the future. Gives the people who use it a chance to have their input into something they can use on a day to day basis whether it is pleasure reading in the off season or learning ID in the field and using it for reference.

Wreckless · 02-01-2009, 11:03 AM

As someone else mentioned, the "middle" geese are the tough ones (for me).

Maybe some pictures / footage of Lesser vs Dusky. That's always a tough call for me. And Vancouvers / Wuskies

Cack's, Tav's & Westerns are easy......Sounds like you've got it pretty well covered.

Flatfish · 02-01-2009, 11:05 AM

Big, dark and stupid = bad birds.

Cacklers look like........cacklers.

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterfowlin101

Ahhh Kelly! Too bad you know as well as I that the only true identification test is years of experience in the feild...and landing birds in the dekes for conformation.

It's all about getting out there and getting close. The only problem is, so many hunters shoot way to early, and miss on all the real learning that takes place inside 25 yards.

Been doing this since it all began (forget how many years ago) and still wish I had more days in the feild.

I'd love to come to your seminar though...let me know when and where!

Jon

Jon I agree with you 110% there is ABSOLUTLY no substitute for the field. The more geese in close proximity the better. The more geese you hear the better. The more you learn behavior the better. Just like you know ID is almost second nature when geese turn into obsession lol.

One thing i am including in my presentation is some hunter tips. Like let the geese work. Dont shoot high (and the behavioral results if you do shoot high). My goal is a presentation that is second best to the field. Addressing somthings people may have never though about or correlated in goose ID or permit zone hunting. It defenitely isnt the field but i just hope it helps. But guess what one of my major points int he presentation is.........Get your Ass in the field whether it is hunting, visiting refuges, visiting local urban parks where you can get close proximity to geese of different subspecies.

I will give you a call soon with the info on where the seminar is!!!

sprigkiller09 · 02-01-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonkerKnocker

Man, that's a tough question to answer.It's to bad you couldnt do like a clinical day where you actually took people out into the field Live geese would be awesome to glass and help people identify birds. I can honestly say that I took the test ,learned what I had to learn, but it wasnt until I actually spent hours in the field that I could pick out a tav. in a flock of cacks. I think cacks are easy to identify but picking out a tav. or a lesser in a flock of cacklers is the hardest part...I still am not sure sometimes....I agree with line jerk light on the biology heavy on pics and real life useful ID information.

Perhaps we could form a day in the future (prolly to late this year), before all the geese leave if people are interested. I could scrounge up mounts, molds, and a presentation where people could ask questions. I would defenitely need to know how of interest this would be to people though??:??

I agree with you picking tavs out of flocks can be difficult most people dont even attempt. The more geese you look at the more sure of yourself you will be.

steelhead22 · 02-01-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprigkiller09

One thing i am including in my presentation is some hunter tips.

Also, where are the best places to hide a dusky once you've shot one. Decoy bags and the brush right behind your blind are clearly not ideal choices. A shade guide is helpful as well (and affordable), once you've got your bird down, THEN you can match it to the guide to determine if it's a "checker" vs. "non checker".

Just kiddin'. Nice work and I'm looking forward to the seminar.