And you guys thought ODFW was bad for hunting...

[Big TULE]

Washington just came out with there proposals for 2009 and they absolutely suck.

I am a ML and we get the shaft in WA for seasons and available units. Well the archers were just handed the shaft also.

[Rank Amateur]

Please expand for us non-Washingtonians.

[Big TULE]

These are the recomendations for the upcomming year. I know they are just recomendations, but i have never in my last 18 years of hunting seen them change any of there recomendations. It seems like what they recomend is what is put in writing.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonse...ecommendations

[Fur n Feathers]

I dont want to read all that, what are the key things that make WDFW suck so bad

[DLAW]

I live and hunt in WA and read the possible changes. What are you saying sucks so bad? Just curious, because I archery elk and rifle deer. I saw some of the special permit cuts for east side deer but that I figure is because of the past two winters we have had. Did I miss something other than the permit changes and the ability to pack a sidearm during archery season?

ah just got it, you are a Muzzleloader, I have noticed ML does not get a good shake at Units, point taken there but what else?

[Big TULE]

Because some irresponsible 14 year old shot a hiker last year while bear hunting all bear hunting in august on state, fed or public land is closed. It has always been open aug 1st, and it is still open on private land. But because you might shoot a hiker it is closed.
There used to be 128 archery deer tags for a late mule deer hunt in the central part of the state, now 17 for archery. Rifle hunters didn't lose any tags. I am a Muzzy hunter so not hurting me but it is not good. ML hunters get 24 units out of 80 some units Archers get 69 and Rifle hunters get all but like 4. The were talking like they were going to open up a few more to ML hunters and they didn't.
Just feels like they take a little more every year.
I can't even go into the changes to the once in a lifetime permits... Stupid pencil pushers.

[Big TULE]

DLAW did you see they took away the Late archery bull hunt in winston??? That will get alot of people riled up.

[Big TULE]

They also shortened the late ML season this year by 11 days. Let see same amout of units just less days to hunt them. No other method lost days. We had a thanksgiving day tradition of elk hunting, well not next year. Sorry if i sound bitter but i am, We submitted suggestions during the season setting portion, and they looked at them and it looked like not much was going to change, it looked like they might give a few more units to spread out the masses and they basically said nope, sorry to bad for you.

[Limbhanger]

Because some irresponsible 14 year old shot a hiker last year while bear hunting all bear hunting in august on state, fed or public land is closed. It has always been open aug 1st, and it is still open on private land. But because you might shoot a hiker it is closed.


If this is true it is time to send LOTS of email !!!

[Big TULE]

Fall black bear, all seasons run Aug. 1st- Nov. 15th and they always have with no restrictions but this year there is something new.
a Aug. 1-31 restricted to private lands only

[DLAW]

regarding the Winston Unit late elk archery, that I did see and thought they were just adding it to the above group....ok that does get me a bit *****
my parents live there and that is where I archery hunt...son of a
Next, if they seriously think they can do away with the bb hunt on all lands except private, who are they kidding
3rd....I can understand some of the special permit slashes but going thru them I see alot more than the normal cuts
Gladly taking to Idaho again this year for elk.

[Big TULE]

They also removed the late archery bull hunt in ryderwood.
Now here is what i see, the rifle hunters will be the only ones to hunt bulls in the winston unit, yes they have an early archery bull hunt there but it is allmost always closed due to fire danger, and now no late archery bull hunt. There is no ML hunt in there either. I am not sure what they are trying to do, but none of it makes sence.

[BrotherWolf]

so much for the early goose season

[riverswild]

Originally Posted by Fur n Feathers

I dont want to read all that, what are the key things that make WDFW suck so bad

Just one of the many issues is the changes to bear hunting in August. The Bear Management Units that currently open on August 1st will now change to private lands only to reduce interaction between forest user groups. No public land hunting for bears in the month of August.

Another is the elimination of youth hunts in Eastern WA.

Another is the continued shortening of archery seasons.

Another is rifle elk hunts in September.

Makes me sick.

[Hog King]

Well...they got something right. They combined Grayback & West Klikitat GMUs into West Klikitat 578. It now goes east to the Klikitat River! It's a western elk unit again!! YeeeeHaaaaa!!!!

God Bless the WDFW!!!!

(Did I really say that?)

[Bloomy]

They want to shorten archery every year, and lengthen rifle. Who makes up these rules? ML really have bad seasons. I spent sometime and looked over the requests people made on the online surveys and the actions the WDFW took are nothing like what people wanted. Arent they suppose to manage game not people? I wouldnt mind longer seasons or shorter seasons if it meant more elk and deer but I feel there are not enough already so why would you lengthen the rifle season? Plus there are too many preditors (bear and cougars) but they made those seasons shorter?

[Chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Big TULE

They also shortened the late ML season this year by 11 days. Let see same amout of units just less days to hunt them. No other method lost days. We had a thanksgiving day tradition of elk hunting, well not next year. Sorry if i sound bitter but i am, We submitted suggestions during the season setting portion, and they looked at them and it looked like not much was going to change, it looked like they might give a few more units to spread out the masses and they basically said nope, sorry to bad for you.

I dont see the No Thanksgiving hunting bit. The western units open for the late hunt Nov25. Thanksgiving is the 26th. Some of the units lost a few days of the beginning, but some gained a few days on to the end. We WM guys look to have actualy gained a little. Yeah we lost some of the early season and some of the beggining of the late, but we gained on the end of the late. That means a better chance of good snow, and good snow means good elk hunting to me.

The public land bear stuff is a loss, but there's still plenty of private timber land. The've bean pushing the archery guys out for quite a while also trying to avoid having hunters in the woods during the Labor day holiday. They want to give the tree huggers thier share of time in the woods without us barbarians running.

[Chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Bloomy

They want to shorten archery every year, and lengthen rifle. Who makes up these rules? ML really have bad seasons. I spent sometime and looked over the requests people made on the online surveys and the actions the WDFW took are nothing like what people wanted. Arent they suppose to manage game not people? I wouldnt mind longer seasons or shorter seasons if it meant more elk and deer but I feel there are not enough already so why would you lengthen the rifle season? Plus there are too many preditors (bear and cougars) but they made those seasons shorter?

The've got this idea that each user group needs to harvest thier share of the animals.

If 35% of the hunters hunt rifle, then 35% of the elk killed need to be killed by rifle hunters.

Problem is, the rifle hunters aint pulling thier weight. We ML hunters out perform them every year. So they keep taking days from us and giving them to the rifle boys so they can kill thier share.

We're cutting our own throats by having a higher success rate.

[Quaka Wacka]

Just currious if any of you guys who are unhappy went to the meetings? I went, and they explained a lot of the changes. Not defending them, I definstly don't agree with of thier goals and reasoning, but it would at least give an insight into thier reasoning. And that way you argue against thier logic instead of speculating. Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just throwing it out there.

[Quaka Wacka]

Rick-

I was gonna talk about this after I found the paperwork. This is true but they base it off 'hunt oppertunity' and not harvest. The rifle hunters make up X amount of the hunters so they get X amount of the oppertunity. From the numbers I saw they are skewed a little bit in the archers and ML's favor. I.E. Archers make up 17% of the hunters but get 22% of the oppertunity. Not sure how they define oppertunity. Maybe the total number of unit/ days you are allowed to hunt?

And I agree with you Rick, if it were me I would rather lose days off the front and get them at the end, for a better chance of snow.

And the ML and archers definatly have a higher sucess rate, because the way the seasons are set. They get to hunt the rut and the snow. If the rifle guys got to hunt these times it would be a slaughter and a real short season. Definatly not saying any groups better hunters just have more effective weapons (And individuals are more effective than others)

[Bloomy]

Originally Posted by Quaka Wacka

Just currious if any of you guys who are unhappy went to the meetings? I went, and they explained a lot of the changes. Not defending them, I definstly don't agree with of thier goals and reasoning, but it would at least give an insight into thier reasoning. And that way you argue against thier logic instead of speculating. Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just throwing it out there.

I did not have the opportunity to go to the meetings but I was able to send in a couple of emails and do their surveys. I think part of the problem is that they make up their mind before this process even starts and then ask for public input so they look good. You do make a good point and I wish I had the time but I still was able to give me input, not sure that it made a difference.

[Chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Bloomy

I did not have the opportunity to go to the meetings but I was able to send in a couple of emails and do their surveys. I think part of the problem is that they make up their mind before this process even starts and then ask for public input so they look good. You do make a good point and I wish I had the time but I still was able to give me input, not sure that it made a difference.

Yes I would agree that at this point they are just asking to ask, but they have bean having meetings and sending out questionairs for maybe a year or more to set up this 3 year block. They gave us a pretty good chance to say our peace before this point.

[Chesapeake]

If you guys want to know why they propose what they do look at this link and you can see how the masses that spoke up and took the surveys voted.

They may have not done what you wanted, but they did what the majority wanted for the most part.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonse...ry_jul1708.pdf


You got to keep in mind that the WDFW is given a pretty narrow window to operate in.

[huntingfever]

i was kind of wondering about you cant carry a gun or have one unless its a pistol for defense. oregon had where you couldnt have a firearm and it ended up being brought down by the U.S. goverment do to the fact that its against the Contitution Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. So how can washington go against it?

[Big TULE]

I guess nobody else is worried about reduced opportunity. And if you look at other seasons than the one you hunt you will see that there was reduced opportunity all through out the document.
61 percent of the hunters in WA are Rifle hunters, they also harvest 61 percent of the elk. Regardless of success you need to look at the amount of animals taken.

Also if you put 3000 people in one unit the success will be better than if you spread thse 3000 people through out 3 units, less hunter density will equate to less success.

[riverswild]

Originally Posted by Big TULE

I guess nobody else is worried about reduced opportunity. And if you look at other seasons than the one you hunt you will see that there was reduced opportunity all through out the document.
61 percent of the hunters in WA are Rifle hunters, they also harvest 61 percent of the elk. Regardless of success you need to look at the amount of animals taken.

Also if you put 3000 people in one unit the success will be better than if you spread thse 3000 people through out 3 units, less hunter density will equate to less success.

I am also surprised at the lack of interest by the WA hunters in the reduced opportunity.
A 1/3 cut in bear season.
Shorter rifle and archery seasons.
No running dogs for yotes.
Reduced permits.

I just don't get it.

[Limbhanger]

Originally Posted by riverswild

I am also surprised at the lack of interest by the WA hunters in the reduced opportunity.
A 1/3 cut in bear season.
Shorter rifle and archery seasons.
No running dogs for yotes.
Reduced permits.

I just don't get it.

My friend, it's called apathy. It runs much deeper than just our hunting issues unfortunately.

[haulin'bass]

I guess what WDFW is trying to do is **** all the hunters off enough that liberals will get there way and hunting soon will be outlawed in the state. Just blowing off some steam I don't understand why they let peope in a cubicle think for the rest of us.