Second Guessing

[Popeye]

In '97 I was desperately trying to find somebody to teach me how to fish for tuna. Finally, one day I stopped to chat with one of the commercial guys that had just returned with a load of longfins. I invited him down to my boat for a brew, and low and behold, after about a six pack, the guy just unloads all of his trade secrets to me :shocked:
Here's what he told/showed me.
Run 4 handlines (which he showed me how to build), 80'ers off the gunnels, 60'ers off the stern.
Use green/chartreuse clones ONLY, DO NOT MIX COLORS!
Long story short, I was very successful!
A coupla years ago, I was persuaded (and willingly) to start mix'n them up for a better variety and better odds. Looking back on this this last season, I felt my success rate had declined.
Soooo, then I run across this on Coastside, authored by Ghetto Booty :shocked:

http://www.fatbait.com/ourway.htm

So, whaddaya think

[ 01-08-2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Popeye ]

[skein]

That concept is especially attractive to us newcomers since we will most likely have our hands full sorting out "who's on first" during our first few fire drills. Keeping it simple and orchastrated will probably get us more fish if for no other reason than we'll spend more time with our lures in the water.

I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to run through the drill a few times before all the lines light off. (Does anyone really do that?)

Ray, how many more days did you say it was?

Skein

[Threemuch]

Since I am still pretty tight with all my fishing buds down in CA, I have discussed this a bunch with them. Here is my take, and you can do with it what you like.

I think on some days, this method may outfish others, but not 2:1 or anything close to that. And on some days, you will do worse, because the one color you are dragging isn't exactly what they want. I think albacore look for a certain contrast, thats why light colors light days dark color dark days is a good rule. However, there is fine tuning to be done here, and if you find the color they are hammering, switch over to it with all of em if you have the lures.

Bob is a very good fisherman, who spends many days on the water, so it is a good idea to listen to him. However, he does not outfish the fleet 2:1 on average or even close to that. His scores are usually in line with everyone elses, maybe 10-15% better, but that is time on the water more than anything else.

For me, if I am going to catch 12-15 fish on a certain day, do I want them as singles and doubles throughout, or three quads? Myself, I will take the singles and doubles.

Best method? Run many colors until find out what they want, then run all that color. I wouldn't stick to one color for any given day, no way. That will require you to have 6 or more of every color, and that I don't have, yet. But I have 4 of the popular ones, Black and purple, Mexican FLag, Zuccini. I will be making white jet head feathers this off season and make a bunch of those.

My opinion, and you all know what that is worth.

Popeye, it sounds like your success rate declining is around the same time as when you got the Julie Rose III? I hate to say this, but, some boats definitely raise fish better than others...maybe the Julie Rose II had a better wake or sound that the albies liked?

[Popeye]

Kurt, you may be right, but that other sound was $$$$, the II was GAS POWERED :grin:

Talk to Miss B about tuning your props.

[Pilar]

This may explain why one lure outfishes others in a mixed spread. It always seems that I have only one of that particular lure on any given day.

When I first started TUNA! fishing, I had TC200 green and Yellow and the TC200 Purple and Black. So I fished several of one color or the other. It seems now that we had more chinese fire drills (3 or more on at once) then.

Good article Bruce, thanks for the link.

[Pitch Pocket]

Did you read that he drags two 8' sections of chain on 10' ropes? Anyone drag chain to attract the tuna?

[Popeye]

Not Yet! :grin:

[Threemuch]

I used to run chain teasers in front of feathers about 10-12 links of 1/4" above the feather. Works like a torpedo sinker, and keeps your lure in the water in rough seas + makes a ton of smoke.

They make good in line weights for keeping your meat lines down in the water too. You can just put em above the leader on the meat line about 3-5' of chain above the leader.

I DON'T like the idea of having one more thing to pull out of the water when fishing. More people pulling gear instead of throwing swim baits on the slide.
KB

[Marty]

Getty Booty......great, great information from someone who obviously has spent a lot of time on the water. I run a similar pattern (without the chains), but usually have my favorites out until I get bit a few times and then I change non-producers to the ones that are getting bit. What is your reasoning for the chains??? Just attraction!!?? I like the organization of placement and the port vs starboard responsibility and also the buckets on the outside for the handlines. Did I read the article right that you are using straight 50lb. to the lure (or swivel). Do you have many break-offs? Every boat has slightly different fish catching ability's and time on the water provides the trial and error necessary to tweek things to maximum effiency. I really think the key is to continue doing something that you have had success in, because confidence is really important to putting fish in the box. I have had days where everything in the spread has been bit consistently and days where one lure will catch 18 out of 22 fish. I will give your theory of one lure thru-out the spread a try this summer and evaluate. Thanks for the info......

175 days to TT (tuna time)

Marty

[Mark Mc]

Well, y'all are beating this topic pretty good!!
What I would add is this: It's a little difficult to be scientific enough to know if your changes of lure selection from one day to the next are really THE cause of your fish scores changing. Every day is different, right? So you use two patterns one day, and a single pattern the next day. You double your score, but maybe there were twice as many fish biting the second day! The one way that you can be somewhat scientific is to take note, over time, of how your lure selection and spread affect hookups in terms of singles / doubles / triples / quads. I would tend to agree that using all the same, or at least similar colors / patterns will increase the multiple hookups. But like Marty implied, some days it doesn't matter what you hang out there; if they're biting like wild dogs anything gets bit. The finer points of lure selection & presentation really show up on the slow days... so the occasional hookup yields 2 instead of 1, and you end up with 5 or 6 more fish than the average boat that day.

Kurt makes some good points. BTW, if you stroll the docks and look closely at the commercial jig boat setups, you consistently see one jig pattern on all the lines. But also consider that they need a big bite with a lot of multiple hookups to make the day / trip. They don't want to stick around for a slow scratch, which could be just fine for us with an occasional single or double.

[Popeye]

Mark....That's exactly what I'm saying. When I was pulling the one pattern (always green & yellow, that's all I had) I consistently did as good, or better than any other boat out! That was a four year period. I dunno But I think it's time for me to find out if it's that or my boat :grin:

Edit: BTW, I just happen to have a WHOLE bunch of them thar green & yellows

[ 01-08-2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Popeye ]

[corrirod]

Maybe he doesn't outfish them 2 to 1 because they're all using the same method? :grin: :grin:

[Popeye]

[backlash442]

Bottom line is what ever works for your boat and what you have confidence in. We always drag multiple colors and types. Only once when we heard that zuc. broomtails were hot did we drag several of those. Yup they were hot and we out fished the other boats on the water that day. In 7 years of tuna fishing I've only been skunked once and that was a tuna/rockfish trip. Better to be lucky than good!

[Salmonator]

Bruce, last year when I was fishing 26 or so miles out of depoe bay near you and Big Jon we were running mexflag broomtail zukers on the poles and two clones off the handlines. One was green and one was blue. The blue clone probably caught 7 or 8 of the 20 we landed and it was ran out the same distance as the green. I will for sure pick up a few more of those.

Backlash, those broomtails do kick butt!

[ 01-08-2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

[Beer Waggin]

Are you saying we need to have six of everything? :shocked: :grin:
When BOE's only making one of these and one of these, it's hard to do. (Roy get busy!)
We did see the effects of running one particular color last year, (as in certain lures were constantly being dragged to the boat with a Tuna! on the other end) but we never had enough to make the whole spread look the same. Maybe this year...

[WP]

Having done this commercially (with a lot of gear in at once) and for sport (with 5 lines in at once), I think some of it has to do with lure density in the water. The more spread out and the fewer lures, the less difference it makes that they are the same color and style. On the commercial we ran all the same (bulk pack buying and quick line loads) color. On my current boat I only run 5 lines, at the most, and tend to run a Christmas tree to hunt for stragglers. Even within a bite the "lure of choice" can and does change. I think I will continue to use the hunt technique as volume is not a problem and I enjoy trying different things!
Dave

[Nofish]

Popeye,
I have a buddy that used to fish commercially and he does exactly the same thing - one color only, usually green and yellow. The theory (as I understand it) is that the tuna are not put in a situation where they have to pick. It results in more multiple hookups. Down in the Bay Area, I have heard it referred as the "Bob Franko" method of albacore fishing. Bob is the guru of Coastside Fishing Club. I am sure Bob isn't the one that started this, but he has certainly been an ambassador for this style of tuna trolling. As a side note, our very best day of albacore fishing this past year was a day we fished out of Coos Bay only pulling purple and black clones on our rods and hand lines. This is a great topic, I am sure Mark Mc, Ghetto Booty and others will weigh in. Cheers...Bob

[corrirod]

Great article Bruce.

Is it just me or does it look like they don't allow for much stretch on their handlines? Looks like the tag line is only slightly longer than the snubber to me.

Booooooinnnnnng...........shwaaaaack! :shocked:

Maybe that 300# leader provides the extra stretch? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 01-08-2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

[backlash442]

Very interesting. Personally I don't fish for meat. I fish for fun. I love to eat tuna don't get me wrong. We try to stop at about a dozen fish if fishing is good and depending on size. Boat has two fish holds over 6' long and when those are full it's time to quit. We'll switch to C&R if things are going well. Besides it's a drag cleaning a lot of fish. :smile:

[Nofish]

Geez...I should have read the article before I responded the post - it would have saved me the trouble (and embarrasment) :blush: .

[Miss B Haven]

Just what I need, more Tuna in the Boat!

[Albacore Tuna Captain]

Okay, I have to toss in my 2 pennies worth. I don't think tuna fishing is all that scientific. What works for you works and we can have all kinds of ideas why. But the simple fact is that tuna will respond to the same stimuli every time. Trolling with one color simulates a school of bait fish with all being the same. Throw in a different color and the fish will go for it because it's DIFFERENT and stimulates the tuna's predatory sense to go after the weakling first. If you don't have a weakling, the fish will go for all the lures.

I have tried many diffent methods and have found the way I fish now to be the most productive. I fish with up to 18 people at a time, all on rods. I insist that everyone keep their lures close together to emulate a school of bait fish. I do not allow people to use their own gear unless it is simuliar to mine. When I get a hookup, I keep the troll going but start a slow turn. When I get another hookup, I tighten the turn a little more but keep the speed up. I will keep doing this until I feel I have hooked up all I can. THen I slow to a salmon troll speed and we work the fish in. Those who don't have a fish on will keep out of everyone's way but they keep their lines in the water. This is for two reasons. One is that I pickup more fish even on the slow troll. Two after we get the fish in the boat, we get back up to speed immediately and we have lines already in the water. Many times we will get hookups just as soon as we start again. That's because tuna will follow their buddies who are hooked and they are right there for when we start again.

I have refined this method over several years of tuna fishing and my score has been pretty much higher than the other charters working the same area with me. And I really like getting multiple hookups. Six or seven on at a time is not unusual with us anymore. And a few times this last summer, we had fish on every line in the water.

I carry a 4x4x4 tote on my deck for tuna and this last year it was not big enough for all the fish. So I have purchased another to carry and hope to fill it too!

And if you want to know how I can troll with up to 18 poles at once, well you will have to just come on out and see how it's down. Or you can ask me at the next tunaholic meeting.

[backlash442]

I forgot all about turning into the fish. The guy who owns Davis Boats told me to do that too. Think the reason was more for the bait fish than trying to hook up more jig fish. It was effective, however my crew would scream and yell about tangles etc. Stopped doing it and forgot all about it until now.

[Onokai]

Albie Tuna Captain is dead on about the turning after a hook up. I learned that from a commercial friend back in 97. It really has paid off on ONOKAI. We have often gotten doubles or triples from that turn. Mark

ONOKAI

[Bait O' Eggs]

NorRivDave said:

Are you saying we need to have six of everything?
When BOE's only making one of these and one of these, it's hard to do.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">

Dave - You just havent seen the squadron of each color in the arsenal

I read on ifish I may need to run all the same color at one time so I have covered that base. :tongue: Poor chickens are cold this time of year with no feathers :shocked: :shocked: (I tied these feathers all tonight, so none of these have been pictured here before)

[ 01-09-2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[corrirod]

Stop......I can't take it......hahahaha

[Albacore Tuna Captain]

BOE you are a sicko! Have you considered getting some counselling?? [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] BTW, I like those black and purples. They work best early in the morning, late in the evening and whenever you have an overcaste sky. I think it's because they cast a dark shadow against a reduced light source.

Keep it up and you won't have any shortage this summer. :smile:

[Albacore Tuna Captain]

Backlash, you will get tangles on a turn if the gear is too far behind the boat or if everyone starts to adjust the distance on the turn. If all gear is close together like a bait school but staggered so that no two jigs are side by side, you won't get tangles. I troll with up to 18 poles and don't have a tangling problem and I can turn as sharp as I want to drag the gear over the fish. :smile: It comes down to educating the fishermen about maintaining their spot in the bait ball.

The one person who will foul it all up for you though is the long liner. That guy who thinks if he is wayyyyyyyy back there, he will get more strikes. True, he will. But he is robbing from the other fishermen. Tuna will go after the straggler and you won't get multiple hookups.

[ 01-10-2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Albacore Tuna Captain ]