Long leaders?

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

I see a lot of people fishing 3 ft or longer leaders. I was just kind of wondering why?

normally i fish with 3ft leaders or less 3 ft on summer fish and 24 inches on winter fish.

my reason is that in the summer the water is clearer and you need the long leader but you can only get it so long and then its not going to get down to the bottom untill you have drifted thru half the pocket, and 3 ft seems to work ok.

in the winter the fish are more agressive and the pockets usually smaller in the rivers I fish. I shorten up so that I know my bait is down next to the bottom right away.

is my way of reasoning off in left field?

[Mr. Shannon O'Brien]

You are using logic, so no need to move with the herd.

If there are good numbers of fish in a confined area I'd assume that long leader lines are meant for lining.

[4 REEL]

I'm with yu Fish Killer. That aways has been my train of thought.

[glassblower]

I drift with about 20-24 inches of leader. I see allot of foul hooked fish on 3ft and longer leaders due to the fish catching the leader in their mouth and as the line starts to pull and the fisherman sets the hook and the hook is say 2 ft from the fishes mouth on hookset then the hook will either come ripping up from under the fish or come ripping accross it's back and results in a dorsle fin, or vent foul hooked fish. I see very few fish ever foul hooked with 24 inch or shorter leader. Just my .02

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

ok thats what I was thinking. I have seen the guys on the bank of the willie fishing 6ft leaders for summers on a flat thats only 4 to 5 feet deep I kept thinking to myself man their bait isnt even gonna get to the bottom untill it starts its swing towards the bank.

i have fished as little as a 1ft leader when the river has lots of color to it and done decent.

I just wasnt sure because I see so many people using half mile long leaders any more, and have even seen post on here where the people say they are using a 4 ft leader.


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[Fish Hawg]

I fish 18" - 24" in winter. I never go over 36" in the summer time I like a 24-30" leader for summer fish.

[nitrobass]

Quasi at the Dexter meat hole super long leaders are what 95% of people use. Watch a few fish get landed there and you'll see why

[glassblower]

Originally posted by Quasimodo the fish killer:

i have fished as little as a 1ft leader when the river has lots of color to it and done decent.

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<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Keep in mind that you are required to have your weight no less than 18 inches from the hook, less than that will get you one those little yellow slips of paper with with a dollar amount to pay on it. I had a friend get popped for a 16 inch leader one time, he was not taking any time re-rigging up and did not watch what he was doing. My arm from the inside of the bend in my elbow to the tip of my middle finger measures 17 1/2 inches, i just go 3-5 inches past that and I know I am legal, and in my prefered lenght zone.

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

hey nitro I fish there all the time from my boat thats why I was asking. you have probably fished next to me and didnt know it.

some of them guys got leaders as long as my boat


I have seen a ton come in sideways up there by them long leadered guys but also see lots hooked in the mouth

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

good point glassblower I hadnt thought about that.

I have fished some ilegal leaders before then with out knowing it luckily I dont fish in the mud to often these days.

[Mikeymoto]

I'll need to check, but I think that with the short leaders there is a hook size requirement that in some cases it is ok to do it. But you should read the regs. and be clear before you make the cast.
MM

[Kentucky Hog Hunter]

Wow, I did not know there was a regulation for having such a short leder...

Good information...

I use 36" as a norm...that is I measure from my nose to the end of my outstrched arm...typically 3' for most midgets like myself....

However...when the Wilson gets below 5 foot I will go longer up to 60" on the leder...

Why...I don't know but my thoughts are go longer and smaller as the water level drops...I see guys catch allot of fish on 24" leders however...It comes down to what one is confident with and over time I feel I am fishing with more confidence with that 3' leder...

[drift fishing fool]

yeah no real reason for long leaders, especially from the bank. i can see advantages in side drifting applications. as far as too short of a leader goes that only applies to hooks larger than 5/8". i just measured a 1/0 owner needle point and it came in at around 1/2". no worries unless your using a meat hook. next ime you see someone fishing an especially long leader, get their number so you can fish together before your next dentist appointment

[glassblower]

I do know some guys who fish long leaders and rarly foul hook anything. Then there are the guys trying to "line bump" the fish, and they are technicaly attempting to snag and hopeing it grabs in the mouth. I have seen a slug of foul hooked fish with long leaders on the Salmon River, this year was not so bad as the game wardens were clamping down on it pretty hard. As long as a guy is not jerking every 10 seconds, and is actualy waiting for a bite to take place I could care less how long his leader is but I have seen allot of guys snag fish after fish (like 10-20+ a day) and that does not happen unless you are trying to snag them. You will foul hook fish no matter what you use in time, but not every time one is on your line. I think most of us on here have a method to our madness, and are ethical about how we fish, snaging is not fishing as it does not challeng your savy as a true fisherman. I think one thing we need to see more of is law enforcment on the rivers. I for one do not mind being checked, I know there would be allot less poachers out there if there was a greater chance of being caught. I have been checked one time in the last 4 years.

[ORoutdoorsman]

I use what may be considered a long leader, maybe not. I usually just stretch it from the leader dispenser in my and to the far side of my chest. So after a hook and attaching it, it is roughly 3 to 3 1/2 feet. I do this for a few different reasons. 1 is getting to the bottom isnt a huge problem because I cast upstream, so by the time my line hits where I want it to be, it is at the bottom. 2 is because I think a longer leader makes for a more natural drift. A long leader will drift and sway more freely, where as a short leader will me more restricted by the weight "keeping it on too short of a leash" per say. The 3rd reason is more applicable to summer fish because I find they spook easier, but the longer the leader, the farther away from your heavier line and your tackle your rig is. This summer I started fishing with about 2 feet of 8 lb line. Got nothing. Moved to 6lb and got more. Then added about a foot of leader to the 6 lb. and started hammering the fish. So in my belief, I think it is more beneficial to have a longer leader. But thats just my take on it. I say if my way works for me, and yours for you, theres no need to change In response to the snaggers using long leader, I have seen what people are talking about. I fished Dodge park a couple times for the first time this year. There was a guy with like 7 feet of 15 that would just cast and rip his stinken pole in the air. When I saw him there later, he actually was admitting to keeping fish he snags if they are "nice." After some thinking, I have decided while I hate to blow the whistle, if I see something like that again, the police are getting called!

[nitrobass]

Quasi keep an eye out for me, I'm usually in my buddies white willie drifter..

And yes, lots of fish are fair hooked up there. Especially when the salmon are in!

[fishnpray]

19-28" seems to be about the zone for me...real shame i can't catch anything, but it's still the zone. keeps me from feeling i'm doing any sort of flossing and also leaves me room from my weight like the regs tell to.

-Luis

[Fshklr]

Keep seeing the longleader/flossing threads come and go.
Wasn't aware of the minimum leader regs either..Thanks for the info
Generally the flossing longleader is used primarily as a salmon/coho rig. It has little effect in my opinion for steelhead. Steelies actively pursue your offer and are more aggressive, while coho swim mouth open greatly increasing the effectiveness of the flossing leader used by bankies mostly 8 to 12 feet in length. I quit fishing for coho's because I just couldn't watch it anymore and primarily use a 30" to 40" leader for metal..the length of my arm to chin..If youv'e ever seen me I have long arms :grin: I have seen maybe 5 steelhead foul hooked in some 20 years fishing for them and none were due to long leaders. 2 were up at bonneville while gator hunting and they ran into the 6/0 barbless gami..they were released to make the journey, while others missed the glob of eggs etc. Cold, or gin clear water is when it's time to downsize the baits, corkies, and apply the 40" leader. but thats what works for me. tight lines

[ORoutdoorsman]

Since I see it get mentioned every once in a while in reguard to leader, what exactly is flossing? Is this a fishing technique or something bad that happens to long leaders? For most this would probably seems like a dumb question, but I don't know what that is!

[Remdrake]

I fish up in Canada alot for Fraser Sockeye and I remember hearing about a guy using a 30ft leader to floss Sockeye. (Disclaimer: I fish in Canada, Washington, and Oregon for Coho, Chum, Pink, Sockeye, Chinook, and Steelhead and only use an 8-12ft leader when catching Sockeye in the Fraser. It is the standard way up there for Sockeye, totally legal, it is a meat fishery and thats the way it is done. I use a 3ft leader when fishing for anything else besides Sockeye on the Fraser. As a side note, of the 60 Sockeye my buddies and I caught this year, only 5 were foul hooked and they were all released.)
To ORoutdoorsman, the term flossing is used when people use long leaders to line fish through the mouth. Up in Canada for the Sockeye you use a 2ounce lead weight with an 8-12ft leader to catch the fish. The extra leader moves in the current during your drift and essentially gets caught up in the fishes mouth. Most fish that are flossed are caught in the inside of the mouth.

[KingFisher85]

Most all my back bouncing and floatin egg fishing is done with 6ft leaders (unless the water is less in 6ft).

Summer steelheadin with eggs, no smaller then 4ft

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

hey nitro I am the big red haired dude with the beard in the two tone green 17 ft diamond back I fished mostly with an ex girlfriends 10 yr old boy last spring and summer. I probably put on after you though i usually dont start fishing untill 9:00 or 10:00 I let the boat racers get out of my way.

I fish a 36 inch leader for summers and a 1/0 ultra needle point I use the second to smallest corkie pearl and pink usually or white with pink dots and a small ball of eggs.

I see most of the bankies fishing a 6 ft leader on the upper willie some days they spank me and others I take them to school. I remember a few days late last spring when all the bankies were shaking their heads as I hooked 10 or 12 fish in a row and no one else had a bite with their long leaders.

I really dont know for sure that leader length is a help or not from what I have seen. I would thing the water would have to be as clear as tap water for you to need a 6 ft leader.

if the water gets low and clear I just drop a couple pounds in leader weight.

generally I fish 8 lb maxima ultra green for summers and 10 lb ultra green for winters. if the water gets super low and clear I will drop to 6 lb untra green.

I dont know maybe its just my egg cure that makes them bite my short leaders they do have a tendency to just throttle it and I rarely have to say to myself was that a bite?


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[C-lice]

I don't think there's a simple answer as to what is the best leader length. Many variables should determine the ideal length.

In the one extreme, if the water I'm fishing is fairly high, fast, and colored, I'm going to use a short leader and a fixed weight. I want the leader and lure to be right down in the strike zone and I don't want the weight to travel far before I feel the fish.

On the other hand, a certain hole on the North Umpqua where I catch a lot of summer steelhead fishes best with a leader of 4-5 feet in length and a sliding weight. The water is gin clear (usually) and my presentation is almost straight downstream--more like backbouncing than traditional drifting. The current pushing straight down on the corky and prawn/eggs makes them run 2 feet or so off the bottom directly downstream from the weight. Most takes are very aggressive, and I can only remember foul-hooking a handful of fish out of hundreds.

Now if I saw someone running my North Umpqua setup and drifting it horizontally through stacked up fish I would be suspicious. But I can usually see the fish when I hike out of the hole I fish on the North Umpqua, so I know that if they want to bite they bite and if they don't they aren't lined.

[RichH]

I cannot understand the need for leaders over more than 30" for most drift fishing. The only reason I could see using that is on fish that won't bite and wanting to line them. My reason for that statement is that I have watched steelhead take drifted gear and if it is artificial they are very quick to spit it out.

If you have a 5 foot leader the weight would have to travel 10 feet before you would detect a bite. (assuming your gear was upper to mid portion of the slot you're fishing)

Once your gear is quartering down below you to the hang down portion of your drift I could see where flossing might come into play as at that point you are in effect dragging your drift gear toward the bank. Not to say that a fish won't bite at this point, they frequently do. But, in my opinion, this is where most flossing occurs.

I also don't believe that in most situations a steelhead will give a rip about a slinky or pencil lead drifting by. If they want your bait they focus on the bait, not the weight holding it down.

The only application I can see needing a leader over 30" is true boondogging, not sidedrifting like everyone seems to like these days. In boondogging you are actually dragging the bait behind the boat. For that application to get something of a natural drift a long leader is appropriate. You also have direct feel when a fish picks up your bait.

Of course, these are all just my opinions and you know what opinions are like....


Use them as you will.

[Fish Hawg]

I have out fished some people using thier 4'plus leaders when I was using a 2' leader with a small shrimp tail,they were using the same thing and 6# I was using 10# in gin-clear summer water Just My $0.24"

[Salmonator]

I use 36" leaders for winters for one reason. I catch more fish with this length than any other. I have no reason to fish a 20" leader if I catch more fish with a 36". I will not fish a 20" leader because somebody thinks I'm flossing with a 3' leader or even a 4' leader as long as I am not flossing. I have no problem catching plenty of fish on artificials on 3' leaders, in the mouth. Why is this thread even here

[ 01-08-2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

[GOT2FISH]

Thanks for the info I went to the Santiam and after fishing for two hours with out a hit I switched to the longer leader and had one hook-up and sevral smaller fish it worked Great once agian thanks

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

ok I didnt start this post to say anything about flossing fish I was simply looking for info on leader lengths. slamonator to me a 3ft leader isnt an overly long leader as I stated in the begaining I myself use a 36 inch leader under most circumstances.

a longer leader seems right if your fishing larger deeper rivers. I asked about leader length because I still see people fishing leaders in excess of 3 feet on the smaller coastal rivers.

my thought train was how does your bait ever get down before it is thru the pocket with that long leader.

I meant no offence to anyone that wants to fish a long leader or fishes a long leader besides when ya break off in the trees the long leader makes it nice I dont have to reach so far to snipe your corkie from the branches [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]


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