Live Bait Fact or Fiction

kamloops · 11-25-2003, 01:01 PM

I could be way off base on this but.....

[img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

I was talking to a friend somewhat in the know about live bait fishing. He said we had better make sure that the live bait guys will even sell us "Sport Boats" live bait. The guy in Westport does not usually sell live bait to sport boats.
They go 1st to the commercials than the charters than last on the totem pole is you know who. I Did not know if commercial Tuna guys used live bait anymore. Remember those old cane rods?

Can we get any of the Ilwaco or Westport guys to comment on this. Or any other port that has live bait.

[ 11-25-2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: kamloops ]

Miss B Haven · 11-25-2003, 01:20 PM

In case he doesn't see this and respond- I know Hamachi has been getting live bait at Westport for Tuna. He's made a couple of posts showing the results. I'm so jealous. Trolling is effective but baiting is so much fun!
Don't know of any sport boats that have tried at Ill wacko. I'm interested in the answer too. It might just be worth moving to the Marina across the river even if it is in a Foreign Country. I think my passport is still current! :grin:

I can't imagine a bait seller that would turn down cash. Could be like getting fresh bait though- you might need to order in advance or wait for leftovers. I don't know how long they can keep the chovies alive in the pens. They seem pretty fragile.

We could have jigged up a lot of live bait this year. River was full of chovies. We just need to leave the dock at 2 or 3 am instead of 4 or 5 and have some lights to draw them up. Hmm... is jigging bait at night legal here? Should be, have to check.

rojo · 11-25-2003, 01:53 PM

Why can't you dip them like smelt? At times they were so thick you could have got them with a bucket...Roger

royalfish · 11-25-2003, 01:56 PM

Live chovies available in Ilwaco daily last summer. My only tuna trip this year we bought 20#'s, threw a bunch of dead ones over and had some hook ups, but did better on plugs. Would expect you should be able to buy live bait at the net pins in Ilwacie :grin:

Miss B Haven · 11-25-2003, 02:27 PM

rojo- I was thinking a cast net but a dip net would sure be easier to learn. That cast net stuff doesn't look easy! I always get this vision of having it wrapped around my head and getting bonked by a weight! :shocked:

8knots · 11-25-2003, 02:28 PM

Yep, no problem at Ilwaco. The only guys buying them were sport fisherman.

Mark Mc · 11-25-2003, 03:53 PM

If you're going to catch your own bait, netting them is only half of the solution. You still need to keep them in a tank or a home-made receiver for a number of days (4-7). This is known as "curing" them. If you net them, put them in your boat bait tank, then immediately go a-pounding on the sea, much of the bait will die.

Miss B Haven · 11-25-2003, 04:12 PM

Mark Mc- So what do you put in the tank to "cure" them...borax?. :grin:

Doesn't compute to me. The big bait guys in Diego have net pens floating in the bay and scoop em right up and into the bait well on the boat.
I don't see how swimming around in a big net pen is any different than swimming around in the ocean as far as preparing the bait for a live tank on the boat.
More info please!

CATCH AND EAT · 11-25-2003, 04:13 PM

Kevin is right, Ilwaco always had live bait. Also there was a net pen in Chinook harbor and a guy selling to sport fishers there. The net pens are bigger in Ilwaco.

Robalo Bill · 11-25-2003, 04:14 PM

We had lots of anchovies in Garibaldi, easily jig up 50-75 fish. They are very delicate, you just about rip their little heads off jigging. Tried the dipnet/smelt net..they are way too fast..forget it. My buddy bought a cast net.. it damages the fish too easily I guess they are designed for hardier bait fish...pilchars? Tried casting these baits when we got into tuna..but were too busy with the top lure hookups to really try too hard. If someone has a tried and true method ...like to hear about it.

Bill

Nofish · 11-25-2003, 04:44 PM

Mel, What Mark is talking about by "curing" is really penning them up and purging their digestive system. "Starved" anchovies are the ones you buy in the trays for premium prices. The starved anchovies (dead ones) tend to not have "belly blowouts" like the ones that are netted in the open ocean and immediately processed. As far as the lives ones go, if they have full bellies, they don't seem to survive as well - I am really not sure why. I have thought about catching sauries and sardines with sabikis while out chasing tuna...only problem is, I don't have the discipline to pull the gear and jig for bait - especially if we are catching tuna. I definately should have tried that in our late season run out of Brookings, it may have made the difference. Cheers...Bob

KeyWest · 11-25-2003, 05:52 PM

I bought live bait at Ilwaco once this past summer. They were very willing to sell to me. I tried them on Tuna, but lost patience after I got a bad tangle. I will try them again next summer. I have an aquaintance that swears by them - he is out of Astoria.
Dean

Albacore Tuna Captain · 11-25-2003, 06:35 PM

Okay, here's my 2 cents worth on using live bait for albies.

I grew up in Southern California and worked on the big charter boats chasing albacore. The reason they use live bait is that when they troll to find the fish, they cannot troll poles for everyone, ie, you have fifty people on board, how do you troll for that many? So they troll with two to four lines and when they get a hook up, they stop the boat and try to get the fish to the boat by chumming with live bait. Everyone gets into the water with their gear using a live bait.

This method sometimes works real well and they catch some fish. But I never remember getting anywhere as many fish as we do by trolling.

Albacore do not school up in huge numbers and often when you get a hook up, there are not that many tuna around to start a major feeding frenzy.

By trolling, we catch some respectable numbers of fish and to tell you the truth, we catch as many if not more than the boats in California. I think the idea of using live bait is fun, and maybe will get you a hook up but I don't think the bait boats out of Westport do any better than any boat that just trolls.

Bait boats in the commercial business do not go after albacore because the albies just don't school up like other tunas.

That's my opinion, I might be wrong but I'm basing this on my experience.

kamloops · 11-25-2003, 07:19 PM

Mike, A.T.C.

I had some folks on my boat this summer Salmon fishing that had just gotten of an overnight boat in Westport. They reported they had over 165 fish for day and half. They used the same method you described, jigs while scouting than when they hook up they stopped the boat and threw the live bait rods in the water. That is also what we witnessed this summer on some of the Ilwaco boats.
These guys said they really started to hit on live bait about 4:00pm in the afternoon when they also noticed the fish cme up to the surface. This bite lasted well into the sunset hours.

It looks like to do the live bait thing right you need to have several rods at ready with perhaps dead fished already rigger up to cast out at an instant. Then have several more rods rigged up with live bait hooks. Your right it does sound like a pain in the kester, rods laying all over the place. Not to mention the bait tank and installation. Most bait tanks that would fit in a typical sportfisher like my boat may well be only 50gl max and that would take up lots of room.
It does sound like lots of fun though. :grin:

The rods are nothing special 7-1/2' med action with 20-25 mono and lever action drag reels. I was surprised to see the live bait hooks are quite small, I guess they need to be to let the critters swim around for one last swim.

KeyWest · 11-25-2003, 07:39 PM

Tom,

I have a 35 gal livewell built in, two pumps. Mine is a SE boat - seems as though there that's all we did was fish with live bait. I also have a couple of Shimano baitrunner reels and live bait rods - spin outfits. As mentioned, I will be trying them again next summer. The guy I know out of Astoria said on numerous occasions they did the live bait thing and caught 20+ fish - lots of fun. He has a 28' sportfisher out of the West End in Astoria.

I just bought a number of ringed Owner hooks in preparation for next summer. So, I'm definately going to try it again. Like you, I saw the Illwaco charters this summer run, drop live bait, run, drop live bait, etc. Also, a few days the Albies were jumping as far as the eye could see - of course those were less than 1 hour days until the boat was full while trolling.

Just a thought - I will start a thread regarding what was the best lure (color and type) this year.

Your thoughts Tom?

Dean

[ 11-25-2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: KeyWest ]

Booja 1 · 11-25-2003, 08:15 PM

Heya Miss B Haven.. The skippers in San Diego like to use as Mark says "cured" bait. Stuff that has been in the bait recievers for a period of time. While in captivity, so to speak, the bait is fed just like goldfish, this makes them more hardy and generally a more quality bait to use while fishing. You may have seen the guys dipping anchovies from individual pens but the bait has probably been sitting in those pens for a few days already.

Just have 5 or 6 "bait" rods ready to go. When you land a fish just grab the next rod and cast a new bait..land fish no 2, grab rod no 3 and so on. You just never know when that 2 to 3 hr stop on albies will come so a guy has to always be ready.. One stop can really make your day so try and make the most out of each opportunity.

gonzoray · 11-25-2003, 09:19 PM

There was a guy selling live bait in Chinook, pill shark, they were about 6-7in long. It worked OK for salmon but $5 for a scoop-3 or 4 doz in a scoop. He was onlt there for the peak of the season and some mornings he wasn't there at all.

Mark Mc · 11-25-2003, 09:30 PM

At least two different topics here...

As for bait staying in the receiver (pen), yes they have to be starved if they are to be frozen. As mentioned above, the bellies will blow out otherwise.

If they are to be used live, they need to be in the receiver for a "behavior modification." No kidding. After several days in the receiver they will learn to swim around in a circle. If you try to put any large volume of bait into most bait tanks without being cured, they will swim all over the place, bump their noses (which then turn red), and die. This can be controlled somewhat if your tank has an over-sized pump that really turns the water around like a whirlpool, and it's a very small amount of bait. But a typical party boat chasing tuna in California will be carrying 20 to 40 scoops for a day trip.

Mike S., it may be that the particular years you are referring to were before the high-seas gillnet fishery was reduced. The tuna fishing has gotten so much better the last 7-8 years. My buddy Mike Harbarth in Bodega has had a number of 150 to 300 fish days in the last few years, on live bait. The typical scenario on these big days is that after a jig strike, they get a bait stop going that lasts 3 to 4 hours, with the same school staying with the boat the whole time, continuously feeding them a little chum to keep them there.

Using live bait can certainly be fun & rewarding, especially on a private boat or private charter. But let me tell you.... there is a whole 'nuther culture around the live bait charter boat thing. Guys leaning on the bait tank with their one "hot" bait, not letting anyone elbow them out of the way, waiting for a bait stop. And the jerks who hog the corners during a bait stop, and the "deadheads" (freebee friends of the crew) who selfishly hog the corners, getting good treatment from the deckhands in exchange for splitting the jackpot. If you don't know what you are doing, and you're not somewhat aggressive at the rail, you will get eaten alive on some of those boats. Sure there are some good boats & crews that treat newbies well, but if you don't know which boats / crews are which, it can be a frustrating experience. Of course we would never stand for that in Oregon; we're just so civil. Right Mike?

Only 210 days until tuna season.....

p.s. / edit: writing this post, and being that Thanksgiving is upon us, really makes me thankful for what we have up here for ocean fisheries. Yes California has the warm winter weather and more months of fishing, but look at the crowds on the boats & the fishing grounds, crab pots stolen all the time, more closures, yadda yadda yadda. We have the closest tuna on the whole coast, and where else can you get a chance at salmon, tuna, halibut, and lingcod on the same day? Then come in and have some i-fisher you just met buy you a drink.

[ 11-25-2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Mark Mc ]

tady · 11-25-2003, 09:35 PM

I would like to chime in on this subject since Live Bait fishing for albacore is one of the most exciting things a fisherman can do out on the big blue (at least in my humble opinion). If your boat has room for a 40 gallon plastic container, I would highly recommend all you fellow tunaholics to try chumming up some albacore after a jig stop and cast out a live bait. Feeling a little Anchovy swimming for it life at the end of your line and then see the spool of your reel hit mach 1 when the albacore inhales the bait, then setting the hook and then watching 70 yards of line peel off your reel in 5 seconds is a thrill. I highly recommend it.

Tady

Mark Mc · 11-25-2003, 09:43 PM

Hey Mark! How are ya? I just knew that a thread on live bait would pull you out of hibernation! Hamachi ought to be here any minute...

Tady, we'll have to chat sometime soon. Marty & I are working on some ideas, hopefully not too hair-brained.

Tuna Tom · 11-25-2003, 09:46 PM

Ok,

Here is my two cents worth on live baiting...ok, maybe it's only a half cents worth, but here goes.

If you are going to live bait, do it right. Yes, it requires different poles than your troll rods and thus you have more poles onboard than you might be use to. If you are going to live bait fish,however, here is the way I see it. Get use to it. The extra poles are not going away. This means you need a plan of where these poles are going to be ...on the ready...for the bite. Laying poles down on the deck is NEVER an option. That is a cluster fart as sure as my wife is constantly re-thinking my honey do list.

I like rod holders attached right at the base of the live bait well. That way you can have dead bait already rigged but not drying out on deck and or getting stepped on, because your rigged, dead bait, is in the live well. Depending on the hardiness of the bait, I like to have live ones rigged and swimming around in the well as well. It never seems to start out that way, but as you run around it just makes sense to bait up, put them back into the well and just slide your rod right down into the rod holder that is next to the bait well with a little bit of slack. The only word of caution I have is to limit the number of rod holders you have immediately at the live well, because "things" can get pretty hectic and you want room for everyone to reach in to grab a bait. I also like to have either my spare rods completely off the deck, sitting in rocket launchers or standing upright in rod holders that are situated up towards the bow.

As for live baiting with spin outfits, the benefit is you can flip the bait farther out and away from the boat. This can be a significant factor. Think about it. You are a little critter, use to swimming around in less than 40 feet of water when suddenly you are thrown into the ocean with no bottom in sight at all. Where are you going to go? The answer is right under the boat where you feel safe...and I mean right up against the hull, hideing. I can not even begin to count the number of times I've seen boats drifting by with no one realizing that they were fishing about a half inch off their hull. Those little critters get scared out in that big ocean. Enough said.
PS: I've fished shimano bait runners for years. There is, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to go out and spend more on a reel. They are a transmition and they work great.

On the other hand, free spooling a conventional reel and getting a freight train pickup can be nothing short of fantastic and just slightly addicting to boot. If you really want to do it right and have optimium presentation, go floro-carbon leader with circle hooks. You can always go hook to leader, to barrel swivel, to sliding sinker on your main line, to keep the live bait away from the boat. It also tends to isolate that poor little guy so mister big can zero in on him.

Now me...personally...I'd like to have bait in the water and cast out a jig! It is my all time favorite way to catch tuna. Not always but most of the time jigs seem to catch the bigger fish. Again, that is for me. Someone else may believe in live lining. I just think jigging kick's a$$.

Just some thoughts,

Tuna Tom

Mark Mc · 11-25-2003, 10:25 PM

A few choice reports from the Wild Wave last summer:
--------------------------------------------
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 14:28:37
Current Report:
On Wednesday we loaded the boat and decided to run to Monterey to pick up bait. The albacore have been South/West of Santa Cruz. So we ran South to Monterey picked up bait and then ran West. We skipped the inshore fish, threw the jigs in at 8 am team one yelled hook up. I stopped the boat, 5 hours later we started the engines for trolling team 2. We had caught 165 fish on our first stop. The fishing is unreal. We had a 15 to 20 pound average and had one REAL BIG fish on probably a 60 pound bluefin. Gotta go back out, see you out there!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Monday, August 25, 2003 at 19:54:38
Current Report:
The real story of this weekend's albacore slaughter goes something like this. Friday morning we boarded the WILD WAVE with high hopes of calm weather reports of new fish in the area and healthy anchovies. We steamed to the West with choice bait, calm seas and high hopes. We scratched a few fish in the morning until "THE WHOLE BOTTOM CAME UP" the water boiled at the stearn. Bob was throwing live chovies to the foaming water. It was lit up from the starving albies. You could see them swimming through the water and picking up baits. The bite kept getting better and we gave em the heavy string, they ate 50 pound no problem. The bite climaxed when veteran commercial tuna fishermen Gary Webb picked up the JACK POLE and like the terminator started heaving 25 pound albacore into the boat and catching them with one arm to remove the hook. The entire day borderd on unreal and surreal. The final count was 182 ALBACORE with a 20 pound average. Saturday was another repeat with good bait, great people and Steve Carson had tons of cool stuff, advice and another Penn rod and reel for the big fish. They bit like WILD DOGS AND THE FINAL SCORE WAS 173 ALBACORE. Now the big question was could the bite hold up another day? The pressure was on, I had the hard hitters from All Coast and Beverly Seltzer on the boat. This group was aggressive, they meant business and they weren't messing around, we got along great! We had a censored of a good time, heckled each other and knocked the censored out of the fish. The final score for Sunday was 176 Albacore. It was a weekend to remember. All of the fish were cleaned on the way home, they each were bled and we suggested ice for people on the way home. I heard many cell phone calls to friends and neighbors on the way home to brag and to be sure the fish had a home if needed. These days make the bad ones worth while, there is always the chance on any Albacore trip to find this type of fishing even half way throurgh the day. That's the exciting thing about tuna fishing.

Crashin' Bait · 11-25-2003, 10:39 PM

The trick to live bait fishing for albacore is to bring a troll hooked fish to the boat as fast as possible. Most of the time the rest of the school will follow the hooked fish to the boat. Now someone has to hook a fish on live bait (or on the slide) to keep the school interested. At the same time, someone else has to start chumming to get them "boiling" at the boat. Yes, its fast and furious action and on some boats if you don't know what you are doing you might get an elbow in the ribs (seen it happen).
About bait curing, Mark Mc is right, they have to evacuate and, also, learn how to cope with tank life. Imagine an anchovy, it doesn't have any restrictions, no tank walls or net panels to deal with. Now put that animal in a confined space. Anchovies, being close to the bottom of the food chain, are skittish by nature. A good portion of these confined baits will injure themselves, some fatally on the container surfaces. The survivors will be the "cured baits". Also, a batch of bait that isn't cured well will have a high number of individuals with bloody noses. Albies can be picky eaters and they will pass all the bloodied baits in search for those few that are picture perfect (no bloody spots, no scale loss). Finally, select the most liveliest critter in the tank. If you are cussing the bait trying to catch it (without injuring or causing any scale loss) then its a winner. Personally, I try to pick the greenbacks. They tend to be more spry. Folks,live bait fishing is truly an art. Enjoy!

Threemuch · 11-26-2003, 09:15 AM

Anyone here ever tried live bait from a small boat? It's pretty hard. You don't have enough people to do it well, unless you have a very big boat. One to yard in the troll hooked fish fast, one to pitch chum baits, one to clear the troll lines,one to drive the boat, and whoever is left to pitch live bait on the hook. Count em, that is five very busy fishermen, and you only have one bait in the water, which won't keep a school long.

Best done from a party boat, or at least a big boat. I wouldn't try without two or three scoops of cured bait, which is what, about 125-200 baits?

Small boats are better off chumming with dead bait and throwing fishtraps or iron.

Curing bait has more to do with letting the ones damaged during capture die off than it does with feeding or starving them. Basically, curing bait lets all the red noses die and keeps the strong and health baits alive. Anyone who has live baited knows that a few deaders can pretty quickly kill your whole tank. In my experience, fresh made bait like herring, sardines, and chovies won't keep very long in a boat tank. Mackerel will, however.

Another problem is that crappy weather will kill bait too, and we get our share of that as well.

Good luck to those that try live bait for tuna, but I wouldn't waste the money to buy it (three scoops=$75) or the fishing time to catch it.

Oh, yeah, and 176 fish on the wild wave is like 8 or 9 per person. Anyone done 8 or 9 per person trolling and throwing iron and plastic? Yep, we all have. It's fun, but no more productive per person than a small boat trolling and throwing iron and plastic at em.

KB

[ 11-26-2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Threemuch ]

Pilar · 11-26-2003, 09:45 AM

Maybe a more practical use for live bait would be to use a larger bait and target the billfish by drifting over the dropoff sea mounts. You would need what, Tom, 10 baits for a trip?

In Florida it is Blue Runner, Mackeral in Mexico ... what is the 1 to 2 lb fish that Mr. Big is feeding on here? What fish and where do we get some live ones.

Thanks for the reality check, Kurt. We see, once or twice a summer, TUNA! boils right at the boat while trolling. Chunking herring into your wake and pumping bloody bilge water on a jig strike is a good way to cause this. But to carry $50 worth of live bait for every trip just trying to get in the one day does not seem worth it.

Hamachi must tell us more about his live bait trips. He did it somehow and I don't think he can get five very busy fishermen on his boat.

Miss B Haven · 11-26-2003, 09:55 AM

Wow- GREAT! post guys- I learned more in the last 10 minutes than I have the last 2 years on this subject!

Oh- but one thing.... Mark Mc... this is to you:

[img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] For posting those great reports. You just made my winter at least 6 months longer!

I could feel the adenaline pumping into my blood as I was reading!

Now- Let's talk about throwing a fly off the bow after a hookup or into a surface school!

edsr · 11-26-2003, 10:06 AM

What a topic - Now I won't be able to stay focused the rest of the day. Does this sound like fun or what? It's gonna be a long winter!
Team Pilsbury are you reading this stuff?
edsr

Threemuch · 11-26-2003, 10:07 AM

How bout this Mel, after the hookup, two divers go in to spear one....

Miss B Haven · 11-26-2003, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Threemuch:
How bout this Mel, after the hookup, two divers go in to spear one....

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Oh- this reminds me of something! One little problem of fishing bait up here. The Bue sharks can be thick and thieves. How do you keep them off the bait? I guess that could be the divers job huh? :grin:

kamloops · 11-26-2003, 10:56 AM

Mel, you may have hit on something there. :grin:

Shark fishing with live bait.

But what do ya need to get um to bite?
Proly a nice fat 20lb Albacore.

Tuna Tom · 11-26-2003, 01:18 PM

Mel,
I was looking at Tuna fly possibilities just last night in home depot...I think I have an idea [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] of how to make them.I'll update you if find I can tie one on the cheap. I think I've already figured it out.

Terrific information on live baits. Pilar, I'm not sure how many gallons it would take to keep alot of live baits. It sure would be interesting

I'm thinking it would be wise to start off with too few rather than too many. Too many would end up killing them all and not really further the research. How long they are in the well also counts for something as well as the ride.
Still, it all is for a good cause...Mr.Big...so if you want to tease one up on bait, you've got to have that bait in the water. If they do die, you can always stich them up and drag them behind the boat.

Mel brings up a logical point that chunking for them may bring in Blues. My limited experience is that what I think and what actually goes on from day to day is not necessarily the same. I'm thinking it would certainly (chunking) be worth a try. Even if it's a swing and a miss, at least you were standing up to the plate. Chunking gets easier because you can freeze up flats of dead bait for a trip. Now I realize this is galaxy's away from live baiting, but I've fished for tuna with dead bait all my life so it just seems worth a try. And then again I'm listening to alot of guys on this post that definitely know their live baiting technique sooo

Basically, I'm always going for a boat ride. If I catch a fish it's a bonus. I'm so excited I'm so confused...geee...sounds like a typical day.

Tuna Tom

Threemuch · 11-26-2003, 01:51 PM

Tuna Tom-
Figure on about 15 gallons a scoop, with about 200gph flow rate.

Miss B Haven · 11-26-2003, 02:20 PM

Tuna Tom Said: "I was looking at Tuna fly possibilities just last night in home depot"

So when did Home Depot get a Tackle section?

Tom- you got it bad. You go to the fabric section and see Tuna flies. Hardware- hey I can make Tuna poles! Lumber section.. .ah, some plug material. Toilets... hmmm live bait tank, no Macerator needed, just flush! :grin:

Gun Rod Bow · 11-26-2003, 02:28 PM

I have friends in private boats down in So Cal that use deck top live wells. They can handle 1-2 scoops of 'chovies.

30 gallon plastic barrels with airator pumps. One thing I've been told,'chovies do better in round tanks, but I know the big charters down there have really big square or rectangle tanks.

Albacore down there will definitely eat small (6-8") sardines too. Seen that.

There are live bait pens in Winchester with Herring. Any reason why they won't eat Herring? Do Herring handle 62+ degree water?.

I thought about what Albacore Tuna Captain said. Makes sense. But when you get on a good school. A "bait stop" could last hours. It is a way fun way to catch them, especially on 15-20# line. May not be the norm up here, but a big school could support a good bait stop.

It would be alot of fun to develop the live bait availability.

[ 11-26-2003, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

Mojo · 11-26-2003, 02:43 PM

I've been looking for a tuna fly trip for a couple of years. I have done a lot of research, and talked to some friends (extensivley) that go to Mexico each year for albies and yellow fins on the fly. I talked to John about it this summer as well.

I have tied up a bunch of flies that ought to work. You are goi9ng to need a 10 weight rod or better with a big reel loaded with high test backing, and everyone on the boat needs to be on board for the fly experience. It may well be a LONG battle on the ol' buggy whip.

If you guys get serious about fly fishing for tuna, let me know. I may be able to help you out some.

Nofish · 11-26-2003, 03:53 PM

This discussion thread has been super...lots of stuff I wasn't aware of or hadn't considered - that's what I really love about this forum.

What interests me the most is the potential to use dead bait for late season albacore. We were stumped by uncooperative tuna in our last trip out of Brookings. There was a guy we were chatting with on the VHF (out of Crescent City) that chummed dead anchovies and had tuna boiling off the back of his boat after reeling in a plug caught fish. Albacore chasers to the south claim bait is the only way to go for late season. I do know they avoid tuna clones...but cedar plugs and rapalas were getting bit by some (not us though). Great information, Thanks!

Mark Mc · 11-26-2003, 04:12 PM

Hi Gunrodbow....those tanks may be square on the outside, but on the inside the corners are rounded. A typical setup on a highliner charterboat tank has the water pumped in horizontally, so there is a circular motion to the water. This encourages the bait to swim around like orderly soldiers.

Kodiak bait tank company has a decent website. These are sized for the private boater.

fishwhenican · 11-26-2003, 05:38 PM

Kodiak live well web sitte also has a lot of "how-to" info on live bait.

I understand that tuna are much harder to "hold" at the boat than other species, such as dorado, but are they? We caught some dorado and skipjack tuna on live bait with only 2 people in the boat, after hooking up trolling.

Why couldn't we fish live bait for tuna at 150-200 feet when you mark fish on the finder? I did it in Mexico for yellowtail at 140'. Isn't that kind of like "yo-yoing" with the real stuff? Or do tuna move too fast for your bait to have a chance to get to them? We caught some skipjack tuna while reeling up from the bottom to check bait.

Tell me more!

Do the tuna work the bottom of a bait ball, like salmon, or do they jsut crash thru it?

Booja 1 · 11-26-2003, 06:12 PM

Tuna pretty much do whatever they want to going through a bait ball,,lots of times coming completly out of the water chasing bait..Very impressive sight seeing 100 plus lb fish totally airborne..Sometimes tuna stay around the boat for a long long time and other times they seem to be boat shy..Kind of like people,,some good days, some not so good. Bluefins especially like to play the shy game but once in awhile they bite at full speed and man o man you'll always relive that day.

You can fish the tuna deeper with bait or heavy jigs. Lots of times, skippers stop on meter marks, then chum like heck hoping to bring the school to the surface..Sometimes it works, and sometimes you start trolling again......

Chaps · 11-26-2003, 06:37 PM

I fished live bait on longfins in Cal for many years too and can't add much to what has already been said but as an interesting side note my tuna buddy down there said some socal guys are going deep with downriggers for the fish when they won't come up to the top for the jigs. Iron and plugs that have some action, no flasher, says it is working, . . . might be worth a try up here.

KeyWest · 11-27-2003, 07:47 AM

On the live bait subject - the bait pen in Ilwaco sells a pretty good sized scoop for $20. I didn't count but I would estimate about 4 dozen in it. I have a 35 gal live well, and they stayed alive the whole trip out and back. We tried them once, but got tangled so kept trolling - need to try something differnt next time.

One guy I talk with out of Astoria fishes a 28' boat. He had 20 fish days on live bait last year - the bite lasting 2-3 hours - according to him. He does say you have to be extra carefull not to put any dead bait in the water, and not to let the tuna bleed overboard, or you will end up having to move as the blues will surround the boat in very short order.

I'm interested in the tuna fly - I've committed to take a friend out next summer to try tuna on a fly. I've got the pole for it, are the patterns commercially available?

Dean

Onokai · 11-29-2003, 04:44 PM

Ok time to weigh in. For the past 6 years I've been reading posts about live bait fishing from the Bay area tuna club it's the other tuna board. You can E-mail me for URL.I posted it once and was censored but now the rules are relaxed >The site has no advertizeing and maybe the moderator may permmit it. The live bait or even dead bait works especially late season when the fish are more finicky. We have cast fish traps on light tackle and caught them. My friend makes bait for the stickboat fleet when they are headed north to central and Northern Oregon waters. There are still albacore (commercial) boats catching huge numbers of fish with live bait just as in the old days.Hoisting them aboard with long stick poles. Tuna do school and come up to feed on live bait in huge numbers if the bait is there for them.This upcoming season we are going to focus more on this type of fishing. Stick a trolled fish up off the bow close to the boat to keep the others nearby and try putting out alittle bait to get the fish in a frenzy. Again use alittle amount of live , or dead chunk bait. Then use your live bait (light action setups) and you'll find this is the best way to catch tuna. Man July seems a long way off. Mark

ONOKAI

Miss B Haven · 11-30-2003, 07:39 AM

Dean said: "He does say you have to be extra carefull not to put any dead bait in the water, and not to let the tuna bleed overboard, or you will end up having to move as the blues will surround the boat in very short order."

Man.. that's not going to be easy with a self draining cockpit! Have to plug the holes and get on the hip boots! :shocked:
Are there as many Blues in CA as there are up here? :whazzup: I'm beggining to like the fly idea and tossing light tackle a lot more after reading all this bait stuff.

Onokai · 11-30-2003, 09:36 AM

Mel. Our experience with blues is sometimes they are thick sometimes there are none. Yes they come to blood ,bait and hooked fish. If there are blues around you need to pay more attention to what you are puting over the side. As I said only very small amounts of bait, will get the frenzy going, sharks also are a species that enjoys a good frenzy.We have had to motor our hooked up fish away from blues to land them. Mark

ONOKAI

FASTWATER · 11-30-2003, 10:54 AM

I thought I would bring up a couple ponts about live bait that are fact. You really do need pretty good circulation in bait tanks because the better the bait is treated the healthier it will stay and the more lively it will be, the bait that is relly lively as mentioned earlier will get bit ten fold over bait that is lathargic! Dead bait is a no=no don't even waste your time trying to use it!! If your using a bait tank or any source to keep your bait alive it is really important that you remove the dead bait as it die's from the tank or it will speed up the death of other bait real important!!! I also like to keep hands out of the bait well as well as you don't know what chemicals you might have been in contact with and can cause harm immediately. Otherwis to answer a few other myths bait fishing with just a few guys on board can hold up fish on all day if the bit is on its just real important to keep throwing a few,three or four live baits over the side every few minutes to keep the fish around I can testify to days when we have made four or five hour stops with fish on constantly to we wear ourselves out dump the bait tank of whatever bait was left when we are done and just amzed to see how many fish instantly boil up for the party it is always really cool if anyone has any questions regarding anything that is not being answered in this topic feel free to email me and I will try to answer your questions. One other thing that comes to mind is that on windy choppy days bait fishing is a tough prospect we always toll to we get a hook up and it seems when you stop to bait fish on windy days you just get blown off the fish to quick for it to be real productive but on thos e glassy calm days get ou the ben=gay!!!PEACE.

Billfisher · 11-30-2003, 08:28 PM

I fished live Herring from Winchester this summer for Albies. We knocked 'em dead with bait stops as described above. 50# flouro, owner ringed mutu circle hooks, and wind-on leaders. Also, I had an heirloom Penn Senator all boogered up when a football shaped freight train ran too fast for me to set the brake gracefully. it went "KaPop!" and the gears are missing some teeth. I recoommend a lever drag reel. I noticed the new Torium's and they might be a good price point option. Also, the Okumas are very good for their price!

Best Fishes,

Doug

Billfisher · 11-30-2003, 08:29 PM

OOOps, I meant Recommend...

KeyWest · 12-01-2003, 04:41 AM

Hmm... I read the last post and had to chime in... While this thread is all about live bait, the turn toward reels - I have to put in my two cents worth. Personally, if I had to build an arsenal from scratch, I would start with the top end gear and build slowely. I've used the Okuma Titus 15's for warm water fish (Sails, Waho, Mahi, Tuna) and a number of other large species. I personally DO NOT recommend them. The brass gears are easily bent, there are two scews which hold the rear gear on (the clicker) that vibrate out, and then embed in the mechanism - locking the reel when you have a freight train on the other end, of course. Sure, they are inexpensive, but after going through 6 in the last year and a half, I could have taken that same $ and bought a couple of Penn Internationals. I have two 30T's and two 16S Penns - have had them for 2 years, and have never had any problems, at all. I've rebuilt the Okuma's so many times I think I could now do it in my sleep!

I also have a couple of the Okuma bait casting reels (20L, 30L) - they were in the $50 range, but again, they are failing after one year of salmon fishing - which certainly doesn't put much stress on it.

I also have a gold Okuma 15T two speed. I've used it once. The clicker doesn't work at all once the lever is pushed to any sort of tension. So, you will never hear when a fish hits until the line pops after you've been spooled.

I DO agree, the lever drags are the way to go, however.

My two cents...

[ 12-01-2003, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: KeyWest ]

Nofish · 12-01-2003, 06:02 AM

There's a guy over on the Bay Area Tuna Club site that has a reel repair business and provides advice etc to club members about reels. He does not like Okuma's...says he sees way too many of them in his shop. I hope this helps as well. Cheers...Bob

Onokai · 12-01-2003, 08:58 AM

Doug where in Winchester Bay did you get those live herring???Mark

ONOKAI

Onokai · 12-01-2003, 09:04 AM

I'm in total agreement with Key West. My penn international has been bullet prof , but they are old school compared to the Shimano reels. Which I've had great luck with. The only problem with them is they are pricey. Mark

ONOKAI

Billfisher · 12-01-2003, 09:12 PM

We got live bait at the barge, after a brief discussion about NOT killing the damn things. They were under the mistaken assumption that using live fish (from the ocean) in the ocean was illegal. At any rate, it was $50 for a large scoop.

As for the Okuma's, Thanks Key West for your two cents. While I've had no problems yet, I haven't put the screws to a large fish with the only Okuma I own, a Titus TG15 II. My Penn International 30's have NEVER (I repeat...) been a problem, whether it was Marlin, Tarpon, Sturgeon, Albacore, or anything else for that matter. I have, however, found these to be a bit on the bulky side when live-lining small fish; so I prefer to try a smaller reel. I forgot to mention Shimano TLD's, which have also worked, though I have never serviced one myself.

Regards,

Doug

KeyWest · 12-02-2003, 04:37 AM

Yes, I know folks that use the Shimano TLD15 without a hitch for years. I see them on some web sites now for $129 - instead of the "etched in stone" price of $154.99. They are good reels.

I also agree, the Penn 30T is a heafty reel.

Hamachi · 12-04-2003, 05:03 AM

Sorry it took me so long to see this and chime in.

Cured bait - yes, cured lasts much longer and is hardier than uncured, especially on multi-day trips. When bait is caught, it's seined up, power-brailled onboard, and then pumped from the boat to the receiver. Quite stressful. Cured bait has recovered from that ordeal. I have pulled up on meatballs, (bait schooled up real tight on the surface 'cause they're being attacked from below), and scooped them into my tank with no ill effects for the day. This includes rough conditions.

Westport sells bait to privates in season after the charters are baited up by 6. I tell them I want $20 worth and usually get 1.5 - 2 scoops. You can get it out of season, but it's alot harder. I would call ahead and try to set something up, like being there when they bait a commercial.

As for using live bait for tuna over trolling, you've all heard my gospel. It's the only way to go. Albies do school - maybe it's only a 20 - 50 fish school, but how many fish do you need on one stop? This past August I was solo 38 miles SW of Westport trolling. Saw a few jumpers for nothing. Spotted a few breaking fish, slid up on them and threw a scoop of bait out. They went bonkers crashing on the bait. Instant hook up as soon as the bait hit the water. While I fight the fish I reach behind me every few minutes to throw out a few more baits. This, along with the hooked fish, will keep the rest of them around the boat. You haven't lived until you've seen these fish zipping all around your boat scarfing up every frantic 'chovie, while you're tossing another bait out that will instantly be inhaled 20' off the side as you watch. That is albacore fishing. Hopefully you meat trollers, (which I'm not knocking), will be able to experience this sometime.

kamloops · 12-04-2003, 05:39 AM

Hamachi

I heard the sports were kind of down the food chain in Westport.
Hope Ilwaco will pull through, sounds like they will sell from everyone up there that's chimed in.

Need to plan the install of my tank. Only 7 months to go.

I think you guys that know live bait fishing are going to be in short supply this season, do ya want to go Tuna fishing?

backlash442 · 12-04-2003, 03:19 PM

Just out of curiousity what are the ave. size of albies caught in Wa. and Or? I fish from S.D. up to the Central Coast (Morro Bay) so the fishing is much different. Nobody leaves the dock w/out live bait if it can be helped. Down here you troll to fish live bait. Although there are no guarantees you'll get bit. Plenty of days when it's almost all jig fish. But the days when the fish are crashing in the corner are a blast.

As far as size normally early season fish are smaller. Some can even go single digits like a couple of years ago. As the season progresses the big fish (40lbs plus) will start to show in the fall. Normally not in large numbers but that's ok. Besides don't need many fish when they are that big.

KeyWest · 12-04-2003, 05:54 PM

Good article in the December Powerboat Reports - it's titled "Livewells: Good and Bad"

Good reading!

Mark Mc · 12-04-2003, 06:19 PM

Hi Backlash.... this last season, on most of the trips the average was an honest 18 to 20 lbs. There were a few isolated days where a couple boats reported all 28-30 lb fish. All & all, very healthy fish this year. In fact, I don't think I saw one single peanut this year.

Hey, if you're new to the board, you owe us a story! Tell us about yourself! I'd love to hear about those legendary Morro Bay October hogs (that didn't show this year?)...

Welcome Aboard!!

See ya.... MArk

[ 12-04-2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Mark Mc ]

backlash442 · 12-05-2003, 07:32 AM

Hey Mark I feel like the guy in Lethal Weapon that says "ok ok ok!". Love to fish tuna. It's such an adrenalin rush. Bait fishing is a lot of fun but it's the sceaming drag that gets the heart going.

Started fishing for tuna after I bought my Davis Boat (now sold). Never planned on it as I was perfectly happy to fish rock fish etc. Went down to San Diego to try tuna. Seeing that blue water and hearing the reels scream and that was it!

Lots of stories (heck who doesn't have em) but the biggest fish we ever got were in less than 250ft of water! Yeah hard to believe. We were pretty much rookies that year. Didn't have a clue as to what we were doing. On our way out we happened to see some terns. I was told when you see those birds start looking for fish. Didn't matter that we were inside of the rockfish boats!! Slowed down and low and behold we have jumping fishing (big ones) right next to us. Out go the lines. Took maybe 10-15 minutes of trolling before we have a double. Got the triple as the lure was dropping down. Landed all fish and everyone was over 50lbs! Biggest topped out at around 60lbs.

After that got on the radio and gave out the numbers. I even heard the rockfish boat call out to the Landings albie boat that fish are being caught inside of him. Boats started showing up and it was run and gun. Birds, sealions, dolphin were all chasing the baitfish with the albies underneath. Got one more on the slide. Really amazing day. Couldn't have been more than a few miles from the Rock.

My last trip out (which was a local launch) our fish ave. was about 25lbs. I had to reel in all the jig fish as nobody wanted them. See that's the power of bait fishing!!

BaitStop · 12-17-2003, 01:08 PM

For the next best thing to an albacore "baitfish" experience try fishing plastics (scampis etc.) on the slide. Nothing like dumping a plastic swimbait on a corner stick & hooking up. Not the visual you get on a baitfish boil but it's fun & if the albies are on the bite a good way to put some fish on the boat. Try some of these:

http://www.fishtraplures.com/