Spider bull

[BuxnDux82]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...ockett-record/

Here is a link to the new Boone and Crocket record. I am not sure if anyone has posted anything about it. This thing is HUGE!!!

[Linejerk]

Originally Posted by BuxnDux82

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...ockett-record/

Here is a link to the new Boone and Crocket record. I am not sure if anyone has posted anything about it. This thing is HUGE!!!

Yep it was posted a long time ago.

[BuxnDux82]

Yah I am fairly new so i had no clue... It is weird though that it just gets placed in the paper in other places when it was killed in september?? Oh well

[6x6xBow]

This bull is in the news again now because the Boone & Crockett Club just officially recognized the bull as the world record in the non-typical category. The rack had to dry for 60 days before it could be measued. A special B & C committee just finished the measuring and made it official on January 2, 2009. The committee also had to investigate the harvest of the animal to make sure it was taken under fair chase conditions. You can read the full story on the B & C Club's home page.

[3fletch]

They had to wait for the drying period before they could announce it as the world record. This guy chased that bull for nearly a month...

Great bull, but I wished he would have lived a few more years... he had a bounty on him, that guaranteed he would not last thorough the year....

Rest in peace Spidey

Fletch

[DogZilla15]

Just today a friend sent me a photo of a bull from Selway-Bitterroot that scored 575, non-typical. Don't know when it was shot.

[sprigkiller09]

Originally Posted by DogZilla15

Just today a friend sent me a photo of a bull from Selway-Bitterroot that scored 575, non-typical. Don't know when it was shot.

This bull you speak of was a hoax e-mail sent around. It is a high fence bull. There is a pic of it feeding out of a dog dish when it was in velvet!!


As far as the spider bull goes that is a wicked looking bull. Very impressive!!

[joebob]

intense bull

[Bigbuck6x9]

i read off the internet somewhere that the bull was bought for thousands of dollars and shot off the back of the guides porch, he had been wathcing it for years i guess..but i dont know if thats true or not

[OR_Bo_Huntr]

Originally Posted by Bigbuck6x9

i read off the internet somewhere that the bull was bought for thousands of dollars and shot off the back of the guides porch, he had been wathcing it for years i guess..but i dont know if thats true or not

Its not, verify before you post please

[cheyenne10]

Most large bulls get that way for a couple of reasons, Genetics and being smart. I hope it was fair chase. Most likely was know of and guide assistance of some kind, I'm jealous. I Would just like a couple of the sheds. He should have passed his genetics along over several years.

[OR_Bo_Huntr]

It was 100% fair chase, on public land in the Monroe Unit of Utah

[ArcheryHunter]

Yep, what a great bull. I hope his genetics were passed on.

[Sneekee]

Any one who got a tag for that area had a chance or you coulda

[Arrowslinger]

edit....I'll just keep my comments to myself....

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by OR_Bo_Huntr

It was 100% fair chase, on public land in the Monroe Unit of Utah

The bull had been watched all summer and was all te rave on Monster Mulies. It vanished come hunting season and was in some very sparse country before they found him again.

Doyle's team was looking everywhere for him. I'd say he learned some habits that allowed him to get that size.

Great public land bull.

Utah is kickin out as many 400" bulls as anywhere.

[osulogger]

Originally Posted by OR_Bo_Huntr

It was 100% fair chase, on public land in the Monroe Unit of Utah

Not sure if you'd call if fair chase with the number of guides and trail cameras that were used in the pursuit, but kudos to the hunter and a big kudos to the Spider Bull for evading everyone for as long as he did...... sure was a specticle to watch on the other forums this year!

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

[OR_Bo_Huntr]

OSU...do you have insight as to who the many number of guides were?

[Arrowslinger]

OSU...do you have insight as to who the many number of guides were?

Do you? Come on Joe, you know there's alot of controversy surrounding this bull, hunt, and guides.

[Incredible_Bulk]

Denny was with Mossback Guides and Outfitters when he took it... it was a guided hunt. I'm not at all saying it wasn't fair chase, but this guy wasn't on his own, and in the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I've got to say 'bout that..."

[osulogger]

I followed the threads just like everyone over on MM. The picture I have of Spidey on my computer with Denny has 6 other guys behind him. Sure, maybe they all hopped in for the photograph but you're seriously going to tell me he found that bull all on his own?!?

There was another thread on there by a guy named caelknuts I believe that tracked his hunt. He was in the same unit (Monroe) and on a number of occasions he mentioned he had bumped into Doyle guides searching for the elusive Spidey.

Don't quote me on it, as I think the thread has been long destroyed but there were claims at one time of up to 30 guides looking for that bull. If they all worked for Doyle, that's one thing but there were a lot of eyes watching that one elk, hard to think that was fair chase. Especially in that country.

Just my ..... if you'd like to grill me or provide me with actual numbers, I'd be happy to entertain your thoughts!

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

[Diehard]

Shooter Bull Ranch. Can you say "fenced in".

[Catch 22]

He paid over $150,000 for a governor's tag that allowed him to shoot the animal with a rifle during archery season. Some states even extend the season for these tags. That's where the controversy begins.

For the record, I wish Oregon had this same program. Where else can you get that kind of money into our F&W program from one tag?

He got what he paid for.

Luckily for me (as well as most of us), I don't have the funds to worry about such a moral and ethical dilemna.

[Pyrojake]

The videos of the spider in velvet are amazing

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by Catch 22

He paid over $150,000 for a governor's tag that allowed him to shoot the animal with a rifle during archery season. Some states even extend the season for these tags. That's where the controversy begins.

For the record, I wish Oregon had this same program. Where else can you get that kind of money into our F&W program from one tag?

He got what he paid for.

Luckily for me (as well as most of us), I don't have the funds to worry about such a moral and ethical dilemna.

Oregon has this type of system.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by Diehard

Shooter Bull Ranch. Can you say "fenced in".

Fair chase, with a guide, public land. He paid a lot for the tag. Big deal. I pay a lot for out of state tags. When my buddy from WA hunts OR he pays a lot.

A lot is relative.

You guys hunt public land, have a pick-up, a shiny new rifle or a $1,000 bow. I know lots of folks that would consider that "overpriced".

When I go to Canada, I have to have a guide.

When I go to Africa (some day) I'll have a guide.

Get a grip.

Great bull. Hard working guide who is darn good at putting big ones on the ground.

Happy client.

[Quaka Wacka]

Great bull. Sure would have been nice to see some joe shmoe get it on his own.

[fisher22]

Regardless of if with a guide or DIY that is one OUTSTANDING BULL.

[wapiteaser]

My thoughts on all this is "big bucks and an ego to match" $150k for bragging rights.

[scubaseth]

I always like the underdogs. So knowing how much this guy spent. I sure would of liked to see a regular hunter get this bull. Ohh well, to you Spidy!

Scuba

[Blacktail Slayer]

I wish OR could bring in the type of money these other states do from auction tags. I know a lot of people don't like hearing about 6+ guides helping a hunter out. All of us on ifish can get together, sharing our secret spots, work together as a team and take some big bulls here in OR. Only a couple people may get shoots or bulls, but we have the same option as they do. How many people want to share their area and let someone else shoot a bull? Ya the guy got to use a rifle during the rut, but he paid good money to got back to the state. That money helps Utah manage their great animals. This was a public land bull that took a month or more I think before the guy got it. There were hundreds of people out in that unit looking for the bull helping other hunters with that archery tag. It seems like it was a pretty fair chase hunt. So when is everyone going to share their secret spots a help someone get a bull. We can do it here in Oregon for free, but everyone would have to understand they will not always get the shoot. Is anyone up to it?

[osulogger]

I guess the difference I see is when you collaborate with a bunch of buddies and make a drive or scout for that big bull or buck, you're doing it as a group of friends. There's no money involved, possibly a bottle of your favorite beverage, but you're not paying your best friend thousands of dollars to be your guide. It just seems like with this bull in particular from day one he showed up, he had every set of hunting eyes in the western states chasing him.

Irregardless of that, the bull is still outstanding. A dang shame he shrunk as much has he did from initial measurments but that is why there is the mandatory wait.

I suppose if someone really wanted to stir the pot...... how come this bull wasn't seen up until this year? Why are there no sheds, no trail camera pictures, no nothing from him??? Doesn't that seem odd?????

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

[Blacktail Slayer]

Originally Posted by osulogger

I guess the difference I see is when you collaborate with a bunch of buddies and make a drive or scout for that big bull or buck, you're doing it as a group of friends. There's no money involved, possibly a bottle of your favorite beverage, but you're not paying your best friend thousands of dollars to be your guide. It just seems like with this bull in particular from day one he showed up, he had every set of hunting eyes in the western states chasing him.

Irregardless of that, the bull is still outstanding. A dang shame he shrunk as much has he did from initial measurments but that is why there is the mandatory wait.

I suppose if someone really wanted to stir the pot...... how come this bull wasn't seen up until this year? Why are there no sheds, no trail camera pictures, no nothing from him??? Doesn't that seem odd?????

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

I think it is all the same if you pay $5000 for one guide to help you or $150,000+ for 10 guides to help you. As long as the law is not broken; we should not bash other hunters. I get jealous of other people who can afford hunts like this, but still don't think the spider bull is any better than my bulls. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. It is interested that I have not heard about anyone knowing of this bull before this year either. I know on some other websites people say that the spider bull was released in Utah and came from a elk farm. I don't think a bull would just be released in spring on public land where anyone could hunt him. I bet there are all kinds of bulls and bucks that live their lives out there and not a single person has ever seen them or is willing to tell everyone else about.

[sliverpicker]

[BrushApe]

Hey Sliverpicker, where is the people on their keyboards arguing....eeerrrrr....discussing the pros and cons of the harvest of this great bull.

[sliverpicker]

Originally Posted by BrushApe

Hey Sliverpicker, where is the people on their keyboards arguing....eeerrrrr....discussing the pros and cons of the harvest of this great bull.

The girl scout with the cookies has her eye on them....

[Lift Gate Gus]

Spider Bull is massive and a nice trophy that is for sure.
For me personally the hunt took place in UT and I have no problem with the hunt or the bagging of the animal.

Now if it was in Oregon and the unit that I hunt year in and year out heck yea I would be really mad. To think I had a chance at that monster but some rich guy got it RRRRRRRRRRRRR I would be steaming.

I get mad for not being allowed to hunt or fish on land that is posted "FEE Hunting / Fishing Only" I respect it though because its life.

[OR_Bo_Huntr]

Originally Posted by osulogger

I guess the difference I see is when you collaborate with a bunch of buddies and make a drive or scout for that big bull or buck, you're doing it as a group of friends. There's no money involved, possibly a bottle of your favorite beverage, but you're not paying your best friend thousands of dollars to be your guide. It just seems like with this bull in particular from day one he showed up, he had every set of hunting eyes in the western states chasing him.

Irregardless of that, the bull is still outstanding. A dang shame he shrunk as much has he did from initial measurments but that is why there is the mandatory wait.

I suppose if someone really wanted to stir the pot...... how come this bull wasn't seen up until this year? Why are there no sheds, no trail camera pictures, no nothing from him??? Doesn't that seem odd?????

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

That isnt true, Doyle has three years of video footage of this bull, as well as a couple other people.

Denny Austad has a ton of money, and he chooses to spend it in the way of high dollar hunts that allow him the best opporunities to harvest huge animals. Reality, most of us, including myself, will never be able to afford a hunt this pricey, let alone, year after year like Mr Austad does. That being said, he is doing exactly what I would do if I had that type of money in the bank.....Can you really blame him? Heck, I dont think there is one person out there that doesnt have the slightest bit of envy to be able to harvest a bull like that....what I would give, as well as many of the people who set forth to shoot it down. Im not saying thats right, or wrong, or saying I care, however, I do believe that accurate facts should be known before you publicly present inaccurate information, in degrading fashion.
Now, if you asked 100 people, you would recieve that many different answers as to what fair chase is...and thats fine, thats what this country is built on, the right to have your own opinion and disagree with others.
Fair Chase to you might be a 10 day bivy hunt, deep in the wilderness with nothing between you and heaven but clear skies, thin air, and bugles wafting up from the forbidden canyons below...but you have to jump back into the circle of reality and understand that for other guys, thats not what its all about. For some, to pay as much money as needed to get the biggest bull ever, with the help of guides and spotters....now we're talking; my preferrence?...No, but I respect it.

The fact is, this bull was taken on public ground, is as wild as any elk, and was not taken in any fashion not deemed "Fair Chase", by Boone & Crockett. B&C could have the most to lose in the manner, so I do believe that had I not known anything about the background of the bull, and looked into what Boone and Crockett was, its history, and the morals which it professes the way hunters must take animals to be recoreded into the record book, I would have no reason but to believe that this bull was legit. Given that, and the background I have on the people involved, I personally find nothing that would take away from this trophy, in my mind.

Will I ever be able to have guides, and spotters finding me huge animals? No.....Will I ever be able to pay for a tag that costs more than half of a house? Never.....Is it my opinion that this bull was taken legally, as classified by which organization invited that animal into their record books? Yes....Will other guys deem it fair chase?.....Maybe not


Done, Jumping off the soap box, into the fire

[johndeeregreen]

Originally Posted by Gun Rod Bow

Fair chase, with a guide, public land. He paid a lot for the tag. Big deal. I pay a lot for out of state tags. When my buddy from WA hunts OR he pays a lot.

A lot is relative.

You guys hunt public land, have a pick-up, a shiny new rifle or a $1,000 bow. I know lots of folks that would consider that "overpriced".

When I go to Canada, I have to have a guide.

When I go to Africa (some day) I'll have a guide.

Get a grip.

Great bull. Hard working guide who is darn good at putting big ones on the ground.

Happy client.

Originally Posted by fisher22

Regardless of if with a guide or DIY that is one OUTSTANDING BULL.

[in 'em]

Somebody photoshop a fence in the background of one of the photos and repost it so we can spice this baby up a little!!!

It's a great bull, no doubt about that! It's also awesome that it was on public land and anyone COULD have killed him. However, for every hunter out there, you know the pleasure/joy/happiness/satisfaction etc etc that you get from harvesting anything comes from what you put into the hunt more so than the size of the head gear. Anyone of us would have pulled the trigger on that bull whether we had 10 people with us and an empty wallet or not, and it would be a successful, legal hunt. The story just wouldn't be as impressive as the antlers...just as for many of us the antlers aren't as impressive as the story a lot of times.

Think about this way...which of the following stories would you tell more often...and which hunt would be more exhilerating for you...the three point you spotted 1000 yards away after a two mile hike in a road closed area, in the high country, stalked him for an hour and a half in his bed, to within 15 yards because a longer shot wasn't feasible, in open but steep country, under perfect conditions and took him with your buddy right alongside you.......OR........the monster non-typical B&C buck you shot that crossed the road in front of you on your drive out of the woods after not seeing anything all day?

I think we oughtta start a point system that rates the hunt...that would be an interesting thread. I have some hunts that would be B&C hunts and some that wouldn't...I'm just glad I never had to pay that much for any of them.

[Kencreep]

Hunting and Killing are two different things.

Not a prude...I've done both, but I won't call it the same thing.

[StevenB]

Originally Posted by sliverpicker

Oh Yeah Ron this is a great drawing !!! Where did you find it? Did you draw it?

[StevenB]

Oregon's Auction Bighorn Hunting History.

(I post this to no one in particular.)

Remember the bighorn season a few years back. Same deal as this Utah bull only it was an Oregon Ram.

The ram in question had a fleet of wranglers, guides, and others wanting a reward out in the field. The season opener came and guess what? A guy who drew a tag for the unit had located the biggest ram in the state. Just after shooting light he end's hius hunt of a life time.

The high bidder for the hunt was not a happy hunter (even though the ram he took was a 190 plus I believe.)

The same think could have happened to the guy who took this Utah Elk we are all amazed at.

If I could afford it I would probably buy a hard to get public hunt tag. Or maybe I would not. Having a lot of money is not a problem I seem to have right now. Maybe later.

I think that it would be worth looking into limiting the use of technology and numbers of individuals allowed to try and fill any tag. I believe it could enlighten non-hunters to learn of such a limitation.

No more than 2 hours per day of flying time. No more than 5 individuals in the field at a time. No GPS tracking device may be attached to a wild animal for the purpose of locating said animal during a hunting season.

StevenB

[blackdog]

Granted, according to the law, this was all done fair and square. Great, I get it.

But what does this really say about the state of hunting? You have enough money you can do whatever you want. You can buy any tag you want, you can hire as many guides you want. And you can ruin every other hunter dream who waited 15-20 years to draw their tag of their lifetime and now has to contend not only with the other select few that actually drew the tag legitimately, but also a slew of guides 'hunting' every square inch of the unit for their sugar daddy.

Great bull. Sad story.

[Joe Schmo]

Originally Posted by Quaka Wacka

Great bull. Sure would have been nice to see some joe shmoe get it on his own.

Amen to that brother! I put in for raffles all over the place...from buffalo "hunt" raffles to regular raffles in OR and WA, I look at it as a good way to donate $$$ to a good cause. I would like to think that if I ever got chosen for one of those tags I would hunt traditional seasons with traditional weapons...mostly bow...I know where they are, it's just a question of getting the tag!!

[in 'em]

Originally Posted by in 'em

...for every hunter out there, you know the pleasure/joy/happiness/satisfaction etc etc that you get from harvesting anything comes from what you put into the hunt more so than the size of the head gear. Anyone of us would have pulled the trigger on that bull whether we had 10 people with us and an empty wallet or not, and it would be a successful, legal hunt. The story just wouldn't be as impressive as the antlers...just as for many of us the antlers aren't as impressive as the story a lot of times.

[NWaddict]

While I get all the blue-collar resentment of this guy's money, I personally think more people should appreciate the fact that their are guys out there with his kind of money that want to do stuff like that.

Look at all the actors and other rich people that give tons of money to PETA and other groups that want to take away people's ability to hunt, fish, and own guns. The reality is that if people with power, money and influence dont care about hunting, you can expect less and less people to give a hoot about it.

Dom

[oregoncritters12]

Here are two of the bulls from Oregon..One is a gov tag and the other an auction...Both of these bulls came right out of my neck of the woods..Both bulls were killed with a rifle during archery season. I personally had the same tag as where these bulls were killed this year. It's a great revenue stream for the state..The biggest one was on the raffle tag..However many tickets is what that bull cost...

[in 'em]

Originally Posted by NWaddict

While I get all the blue-collar resentment of this guy's money, I personally think more people should appreciate the fact that their are guys out there with his kind of money that want to do stuff like that.

Look at all the actors and other rich people that give tons of money to PETA and other groups that want to take away people's ability to hunt, fish, and own guns. The reality is that if people with power, money and influence dont care about hunting, you can expect less and less people to give a hoot about it.

Dom

That's a very very good point...couldn't agree more.

[sliverpicker]

Originally Posted by StevenB

Oh Yeah Ron this is a great drawing !!! Where did you find it? Did you draw it?

Naw, can't take credit for the artwork. Saw it on another website and deemed it appropriate for the "Spider Bull gossip page".

JOE SCHMO....Happy Birthday!

[Blacktail Slayer]

Hey Jodi, I would take that first bull over the Spider Bull any day.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by blackdog

Granted, according to the law, this was all done fair and square. Great, I get it.

But what does this really say about the state of hunting? You have enough money you can do whatever you want. You can buy any tag you want, you can hire as many guides you want. And you can ruin every other hunter dream who waited 15-20 years to draw their tag of their lifetime and now has to contend not only with the other select few that actually drew the tag legitimately, but also a slew of guides 'hunting' every square inch of the unit for their sugar daddy.

Great bull. Sad story.

I'll ask you this...

Would you prefer really rich guys were putting Million$ of dollar$ into going on guided hunts and dumping ton$ of dough into raffle and auction tags or donating their money to HSUS and shutting down your hunting herritage?

Bigger picture folks.

[ling killer]

that sucks for us! well me anyways the most i could ever afford is mabey to spend 2 grand on a hunting trip. and thats a lot for me

i just think that it kinda sucks for us guys that arent loaded$ if i was rich id hire 12 guids like that guy did and pay for the, what was it several thousand dollar gov tag! plus how many guids?

thats not fair chase in my book! when i go out scouting and find a heard then hunt them hard till i get a bull thats what i call fair chase!

6 spikes 1 4point so far.

anyways ima win the lottery and get myself a gov tag then hire 50 guides and kill the biggest one they can find 4 me! lol

ima get one like this on public land 2

[ling killer]

the way i see it that its not teaching our younger generation good hunting ethics! obviously these guys are not! hunting for meat! if they were they would be hunting spikes anyways, if u think that his bull was worth eating lol well mabey some hamburger thats like eating a pounded steak.
i think that this kind of hunting teaches our kids that the only way your ever gonna b in the record books is to have a fat wallet.

i would rather kill the bigga elk but i'll take the first one that is legal and then split the meat between our hunting party!

i bet that guy didnt give all his hunting help any meat, guide or not thats the right thing to do! if u cant kill ur own elk and need help thats is acceptible but to what limits? i mean cmon if ur so rich take some kids hunting pay only one 8th of what u did and have 3-6 younger fellas or someone older who hasent killed an elk in ur family go out and have a real hunting trip.

im broke now so i guess i'll have to settle for a smaller elk this year

[Blacktail Slayer]

Originally Posted by ling killer

that sucks for us! well me anyways the most i could ever afford is mabey to spend 2 grand on a hunting trip. and thats a lot for me

i just think that it kinda sucks for us guys that arent loaded$ if i was rich id hire 12 guids like that guy did and pay for the, what was it several thousand dollar gov tag! plus how many guids?

thats not fair chase in my book! when i go out scouting and find a heard then hunt them hard till i get a bull thats what i call fair chase!

6 spikes 1 4point so far.

anyways ima win the lottery and get myself a gov tag then hire 50 guides and kill the biggest one they can find 4 me! lol

ima get one like this on public land 2

Sounds like hunters separating themselves from other hunters. That is how we got the dog ban. Hopefully one day we will all learn to stick together before we lose everything. I guess it just keeps going downhill from here with that kind of attitude from hunters. You may want to do a search and see what all those $ from the governor tags goes. You may want to look up what hunting in Utah is like compared to Oregon also. Just a thought.

[ling killer]

last rant! and even if these bigwigs werent puting money into our hunting and fishing ways i guarentee that nomatter what happens their will b no end 2 hunting and fishing! if thats is ever said and done im sure there will be another revoulution and i'd move to the backwoods and sit aorund with my 300. ultra mag and snipin off anything that looked like food

[ling killer]

not trying to make anyone mad im just posting my thoughts guys

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Originally Posted by ling killer

the way i see it that its not teaching our younger generation good hunting ethics! obviously these guys are not! hunting for meat! if they were they would be hunting spikes anyways, if u think that his bull was worth eating lol well mabey some hamburger thats like eating a pounded steak.
i think that this kind of hunting teaches our kids that the only way your ever gonna b in the record books is to have a fat wallet.

i would rather kill the bigga elk but i'll take the first one that is legal and then split the meat between our hunting party!

i bet that guy didnt give all his hunting help any meat, guide or not thats the right thing to do! if u cant kill ur own elk and need help thats is acceptible but to what limits? i mean cmon if ur so rich take some kids hunting pay only one 8th of what u did and have 3-6 younger fellas or someone older who hasent killed an elk in ur family go out and have a real hunting trip.

im broke now so i guess i'll have to settle for a smaller elk this year

Sounds like socialism at its finest.

I enjoy the challenge of trying to kill a bigger animal than just the first one I see. As for the Hunter, he still put in alot of work, even with the help, they still managed to hunt 22 days straight before taking the bull. Every hunter who drew a tag in the Monroe unit had a shot at him.

Utah may not be the best state as far as opportunity goes, although there are enough general areas that joining the pumpkin birgade every fall is a real possibility. The difference is they offer "trophy opportunities" for those that are willing to wait for a quality hunt.

Do your self a favor, this coming from a guy who has his fair share of gramatical and spelling errors, proof read your posts a tad bit so you don't look like a 15 year old girl from Mollalla texting her BFF about how life isn't fair.

[ling killer]

well. this isnt a school! or ne other grammar type of education!

so who cares im a logger u think i care what anyone thinks of my typing lol cuz I DO NOT!

i got all the time in the world to wait man so does that mean i can kill a trophy bull? besides i think ur getting off topic this is about the spider bull not keyboarding class or a dating game to whom you can type ur bff from mollalla. i was just posting my thoughts on the topic

if my wife thought i was talking to girls in mollalla she'd have my nuts on a platter

[ling killer]

and read osu loggers post the guy had like 30 guides lol now thats not fair! i only had one guide and thats my pops